This Urban Hate is Annoying Me

[Lord_Gareth]

Seriously! It's all over our culture in the U.S.A - no matter what movie you watch, book you read, song you listen to, whatever, everyone wants to leave the urban sprawl and move out into the country. It's seriously starting to annoy the hell out of me. Look, aside from the fact that half of the conveniences of modern life (internet, running water) are STILL not available in many areas of the rural US, what's so great about dirt roads, crappy education, and no neighbors for miles around?

Cities live. They breathe and dream. Boston of today barely resembles the city it was founded as, and yet it retains the overbearing dignity of its pedigree. San Franciso is a beautiful, slightly aged lady of elegant bearing; LA is her trashy, punked-out daughter. Detroit clings to its soil like a miser protecting its hoard; Lansing lets it all hang loose with an easygoing college feel. Culture happens there. Life happens there. Yeah, yeah, all the food is grown in the middle of freaking nowhere, but there are projects aiming to fix that, and soon even that won't be an excuse. Where do you find the people? In the city. Want to find a rockin' pizza place, a New Age store with the pendulum you need, a 'net cafe staffed by your favorite indie band, or a gaming store? Won't find them in the country. Political change isn't born in the country, it happens in the city.

The city has always shaped nation, culture, and life; it could not be more emblematic of human nature if it tried.

So why all the hate? Where's the love, guys?

[Lycan 01]

The grass is always greener on the other side.

[OzymandiasVolt]

Psh, I don't hate cities. Cities are AWESOME.

[Mystic Muse]

Privacy? Something resembling wildlife? actual colors instead of just pure grey? Less noise?

[RdMarquis]

If it means anything, I happen to love living in the city. Specifically, San Francisco. In fact, it's where I grew up.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Privacy? Something resembling wildlife? actual colors instead of just pure grey? Less noise?

A city is a living thing too, in its own way.

Both are great, absolutely great. Of course, I'm a huge environmentalist and my first memory has the Brooklyn Bridge and downtown Manhattan as a backdrop. :smalltongue:

[Mystic Muse]

See? not everybody hates the city. It's just that people have different things they're looking for.

[Jokasti]

Because rural areas are much more awesome. :smalltongue:

[Lord_Gareth]

Privacy? Something resembling wildlife? actual colors instead of just pure grey? Less noise?

The noise I'll give you, but privacy is a set of curtains away. Cities possess their own ecosystems too, and I've always been stunned at the variety of colors you'll find in an urban environment (especially fun towns like Vegas).

[Moff Chumley]

If it means anything, I happen to love living in the city. Specifically, San Francisco. In fact, it's where I grew up.

Well that's just because San Fransisco is the best city ever.

NORCAL REPRESENT :smalltongue:

[THAC0]

Not everyone likes cities. Not everyone likes rural areas. Fortunately, we have both options, so people can choose which fits best.

Personally, I'm a rural gal. Closing curtains isn't enough privacy for me. When I say privacy, it generally means I and my companions are literally alone for more than a mile in every direction. I could shout and scream and no one would care.

[Mystic Muse]

The noise I'll give you, but privacy is a set of curtains away. Cities possess their own ecosystems too, and I've always been stunned at the variety of colors you'll find in an urban environment (especially fun towns like Vegas).

I prefer the colors trees make in the fall, the way things here look covered in snow, and not having a backdrop of buildings to living in Sin city.



Closing curtains isn't enough privacy for me. When I say privacy, it generally means I and my companions are literally alone for more than a mile in every direction. I could shout and scream and no one would care.

Said better than I would have.

[unosarta]

It becomes even more ironic when viewed from teh perspective of someone who has lived in, or around a small town, where there is no hope. Life is essentially the same things happening to the same people, all the time. There is never anything new, or interesting. For a lot of people, small towns feel like communities that are slowly dying. The older folks cannot afford to leave, and the younger folks are too young to leave, creating a huge age gap, which leaves no one but a few stragglers as the only people who are able to reliably hold jobs.

Small towns represent quagmires, where people are dragged down and under, where everything is slowed and it feels as if nothing will ever happen. Large cities, capitals, and even anything with more people living in it than 5,000 people represents change. Change that could be good or bad. It represents a catalyst, the option of progression instead of regression and a way to get out of the quagmire that are small towns. Cities and urban areas represent hope. They are crime ridden, yes, and unclean, and scary and dangerous; but they have choice. They have freedom. You can be anyone.

These are the experiences of someone who knows people who live in a small town, who has relatives who live in a town with about 300 residents and has gone to that town and stayed there just about every 4 months of every year of my life. Maybe this is insufficient, but that is my own personal experience.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Seriously! It's all over our culture in the U.S.A - no matter what movie you watch, book you read, song you listen to, whatever, everyone wants to leave the urban sprawl and move out into the country. It's seriously starting to annoy the hell out of me. Look, aside from the fact that half of the conveniences of modern life (internet, running water) are STILL not available in many areas of the rural US, what's so great about dirt roads, crappy education, and no neighbors for miles around?

Cities live. They breathe and dream. Boston of today barely resembles the city it was founded as, and yet it retains the overbearing dignity of its pedigree. San Franciso is a beautiful, slightly aged lady of elegant bearing; LA is her trashy, punked-out daughter. Detroit clings to its soil like a miser protecting its hoard; Lansing lets it all hang loose with an easygoing college feel. Culture happens there. Life happens there. Yeah, yeah, all the food is grown in the middle of freaking nowhere, but there are projects aiming to fix that, and soon even that won't be an excuse. Where do you find the people? In the city. Want to find a rockin' pizza place, a New Age store with the pendulum you need, a 'net cafe staffed by your favorite indie band, or a gaming store? Won't find them in the country. Political change isn't born in the country, it happens in the city.

The city has always shaped nation, culture, and life; it could not be more emblematic of human nature if it tried.

So why all the hate? Where's the love, guys?
I know what you mean. Part of my frustration with living in Hastings, a suburb of the Twin Cities is that there's no public transportation here, despite it's close proximity to the Cities. The idea, I think, is that Hastings wants to keep some sort of "small town appeal," some reason for people to come to Hastings instead of just buzzing through it on the way to Minneapolis and St. Paul. Which is stupid, because people already just buzz through Hastings on the way to Minneapolis and St. Paul. Hastings is the definition of a bedroom community, a place where there's nothing to do except eat and sleep. The biggest stores are the convenience ones like Wal-Mart and Target, and there's no specialty stores like bookstores and whatnot.

But I think a reason why people keep hating on the urban life is unfortunately tangled up with touchy subjects, namely crime rates and poor living conditions. People want to leave the Cities because they're scared they'll get shot by gangs walking down the street or something, and then there's the reputation cities have for being filthy places, breeding grounds for rats, pigeons and bedbugs, as well as pits of smog and other pollution. Plus the traffic can be a nightmare to navigate through.

[Katana_Geldar]

I've lived in both and I can weigh up the good and bad points of both.

Rural Pros

* It's quieter.
* There's more space, you get a bigger yard.
* The roads are less busy so it's not dangerous to ride your bike.
* You see the seasons and the changing of them more, particularly winter to spring and summer to autumn.

Rural cons

* The wild animals. This includes avoiding the occassional wallaby/wombat/echindna when driving at night, your pets killing animals and having to dispose of the bodies and being attacked by animals, usually birds in spring.
* Lack of transport. I used to have to get up at 6.30 and get the bus at 7 so I could get to school by 8.30. And in winter it would be cold and pitch black.
* Lack of services. My garbage collection was fortnightly. On a lighter note, this did encourage us to recycle more.

City pros

* More access to public transport and it's cheaper.
* Shops and work are closer, it's also easier to go to gaming which would have been hard when I lived rural.
* I save heaps of money by walking, like walking to work.

City cons

* The noise, and not just cars but people next door and events some distance away. The fireworks at the showground scares my cat.
* Smaller yard. Out yard is avergae sized and I feel so sorry for my lab who had a HUGE yard when we lived rural. But at least he can't kill things now.
* The smoke and fog. Where I live now it's lower down, so it's actually colder and foggier, sometimes frost stays on the lawn in ths shady parts until 11am. It also means it's very wet in winter, even on a fine day.

[Lord_Gareth]

The big one I would add to city pros is this: Access to People.

Seriously. If you want to meet someone new or interesting in a city, walk out your front door. Hit the streets. Go to a restaurant. Swing by a gaming store. Stroll the mall. They're everywhere, and any one of them could be a new friend, a funny story, a passing acquaintance, or just eye candy (if you wanna go that shallow). Want to support a pet cause? Chances are a city has a chapter for it, or enough interested folks that you can start one of your own. Love LARPing? Multiple groups. Want to start a band? No place better. Where are the people? In the city.

[Catch]

Seriously! It's all over our culture in the U.S.A - no matter what movie you watch, book you read, song you listen to, whatever, everyone wants to leave the urban sprawl and move out into the country. [citation needed]

You're suffering from what's known as perception bias. That is, you've become increasingly aware of instances that support your belief (aliens exist, Freemasons/Illuminati/Hypnotoads control the government) while subconsciously ignoring evidence to the contrary. Yes, there certainly exists a mentality that rural life is superior, but I doubt it's as prevalent as you make it out to be.

tl;dr: you only notice it because you're looking for it. All Glory to the Hypnotoad.

[Dienekes]

no neighbors for miles around?

To me, this is one of the country sides biggest draws. I live in the city. Neighbors are annoying as all hell, and they have always been that way. Be honest here, everyone you dislike or even hate, they're all people. It's nice being away from the lot of them. It's part of why I always make time to go camping each year, often far longer than I should. Finally a great time to be away from people.

Now it's not that I don't like cities, sometimes. They're hugely important, and to many they're interesting. However, I do disagree with the small towns are boring and big cities are not mentality. Big cities in my opinion tend to involve just as much everyday rut as small towns. The only difference is that while their are big attractions, they tend to be only really special to the people from out of town anyway. They're vacation spots for the rural. While the city folk move about their boring lives nearly oblivious. No one is as excited to be in a city as someone from a small town.

Of course, it's not always the case, just my experience.

Also,


Cities live. They breathe and dream. Boston of today barely resembles the city it was founded as, and yet it retains the overbearing dignity of its pedigree.

You must have been to a different Boston than me.

[Lord_Gareth]

Eh, I can bring up nearly the entire genre of the aptly-named Country music (and a significant slice of pop, with growing exceptions of artists who actually hate their home towns). I can mention the prevalent movie image of people wanting to move out into the country or seeing it as "more relaxing" or "better" (especially in horror movies, though that may just be a plot device). I can regale you with tales from my schoolmates and in-laws about how awesome dirt roads are in general, but I think my only real statement will be this - how the hell do I actually CITE something like that?

[Moff Chumley]

Pretty sure it was a figure of speech...

[Lord_Gareth]

You must have been to a different Boston than me.

Note that I said "overbearing". That is not a good adjective. This is the city that banned Christmas and - surprise of all surprises - it's still attempting to circumvent the freedoms granted in the First Amendment by banning crap.

[FoE]

The only thing I hate about living in the city is all the goddamn vampires.

[Morph Bark]

Well, I don't know about all US cities, but the big ones made me literally sick. Literally. Even though I otherwise enjoyed my time there. Smog sucks hard.

I like it more a little more to the country, but not so far that it is all dirt roads. Then again, one must take to mind that not every place "out in the country" is all dirt roads. (Some roads are made of mud.)

[Shas aia Toriia]

I love the city. So convenient, but I agree - sometimes it can get a bit too much. Then again, most cities tend to have large national parks within 20 minutes or so.

[THAC0]

Eh, I can bring up nearly the entire genre of the aptly-named Country music (and a significant slice of pop, with growing exceptions of artists who actually hate their home towns). I can mention the prevalent movie image of people wanting to move out into the country or seeing it as "more relaxing" or "better" (especially in horror movies, though that may just be a plot device). I can regale you with tales from my schoolmates and in-laws about how awesome dirt roads are in general, but I think my only real statement will be this - how the hell do I actually CITE something like that?

And we could quote the opposite, too...

As I said, there's plenty of both types of people and plenty movies, singers, etc who support each type. And while your schoolmates might talk about how awesome dirt roads are, my old school friends give me "Why would you want to live in the middle of nowhere?!" and "There's no way I'm visiting you THERE!"

[FoE]

I like it more a little more to the country, but not so far that it is all dirt roads. Then again, one must take to mind that not every place "out in the country" is all dirt roads. (Some roads are made of mud.)

Don't forget how all the bridges are made of sticks, and every time you want to cross a river, you have to duel a beaver with sticks or pistols.

Well, not every time, but I sure as hell am not paying any goddamn tolls to the beaver mafia.

[Moff Chumley]

Hey, FoE, we're straying into real-world politics here... :smalleek:

:smalltongue:

[Sneak]

Um, I live in the part of Maryland that basically amounts to the suburbs of Washington, DC, and I don't know a single personal who wants to move to the country. :smallconfused:

Well, not counting Smog. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upbRCsvBjtY)

[Catch]

how the hell do I actually CITE something like that?

I was kidding, but I'll give you a couple of examples, since your original post mentioned mainstream media as the biggest offender.


You could use Neilsen ratings for television (though ruling out football and reality shows, the consistent top 25 programs are shot and set in major cities).

You could use music charts to track how many country albums / singles remain popular in comparison to rock/pop/alternative.

You could find the highest grossing films of the past couple years (easy Wikipedia search) and find which ones have plots including or alluding to the "rural life is happier / city life is bad" messages.

You could check best seller lists like the NYT for book sales and note how many books fit with the themes you've described.


I'm not actually suggesting you cite your evidence, since annoyance can't be quantified, only that saying that urban hate is "everywhere" in the US isn't exactly accurate for all values of "where."

[Lord_Gareth]

@Catch - Well, hey, thanks. If I need to bring those kinds of figures up in an argument (probably against some psychotic Kansan raving about the corrupting influence of 'New Age' [the hell does that EVEN MEAN?] material), I'll have 'em on hand now ^_^

[Spiryt]

I actually enjoy living a bit outside of city quite a bit.

No traffic, noises, nasty things in air noise, crowd, noise.

And my city is quite small, and really quite lovely at times, and yet it can be tiring.

Humans are not born to live in the cities, (almost nothing is, obviously, save recently evolved bacteria, or something), and even when they live in it whole live, they know deep inside that something's wrong, I guess.

[Haruki-kun]

Urban Hate? WHAT? D=

I love big cities! One of my greatest dreams is to live in New York on like an eighth floor!

I love New York, and LA, and Las Vegas, and San Francisco, and London, and Tokyo, and Osaka, and... and.... well, all big cities! How could anyone hate them? :smalleek:

[Lord_Gareth]

Humans are not born to live in the cities, (almost nothing is, obviously, save recently evolved bacteria, or something), and even when they live in it whole live, they know deep inside that something's wrong, I guess.

You are aware that the concept of the urban sprawl has been around for thousands of years, right? And that it, in fact, is the dividing line between humans that merely survive and humans that thrive as the dominant species on the planet, right? We've had a LOT of time to acclimate to an urban environment, and "lesser" animals do so without worries or problems all the time.

[TheThan]

*Pulls out banjo, starts picking (the banjo)*
I like to be able to sit out on my front porch swing and shoot my guns while I drink my beer and not be bothered by the cops when I do.

[Snares]

The city and the country are both beautiful. What's the fuss? :smallconfused:

The one place I don't like is the suburbs. The suburbs creep me out. A lot.

[Jade_Tarem]

It becomes even more ironic when viewed from teh perspective of someone who has lived in, or around a small town, where there is no hope. Life is essentially the same things happening to the same people, all the time. There is never anything new, or interesting. For a lot of people, small towns feel like communities that are slowly dying. The older folks cannot afford to leave, and the younger folks are too young to leave, creating a huge age gap, which leaves no one but a few stragglers as the only people who are able to reliably hold jobs.

Small towns represent quagmires, where people are dragged down and under, where everything is slowed and it feels as if nothing will ever happen. Large cities, capitals, and even anything with more people living in it than 5,000 people represents change. Change that could be good or bad. It represents a catalyst, the option of progression instead of regression and a way to get out of the quagmire that are small towns. Cities and urban areas represent hope. They are crime ridden, yes, and unclean, and scary and dangerous; but they have choice. They have freedom. You can be anyone.

These are the experiences of someone who knows people who live in a small town, who has relatives who live in a town with about 300 residents and has gone to that town and stayed there just about every 4 months of every year of my life. Maybe this is insufficient, but that is my own personal experience.

Interesting. I find that life in a smallish town (Auburn, AL - the City border touches Opelika, AL) is rather nice. I attend graduate school at Auburn University, and I don't really see my life as all that stagnant - I meet new people in class all the time (7 new people this semester so far that I see on a regular basis now). On top of that, what I know has expanded dramatically in the time I've been here, since I'm learning on a constant basis. I live in an apartment complex with about 2 dozen other people, which is owned by a single individual that cares a great deal about it, rather than a soulless housing authority. There's very little traffic, save on Game Weekends (Southeast College Football is Serious Business, guys), and can walk anywhere that I have to go as well as drive anywhere that I want to go. There's enough greenery on campus that it feels like a rural area, without the lack of modern amenities that you've complained about.

Granted, huge-name shows don't come to Auburn, but Atlanta, GA is a 1 hour drive away, if your favorite band happens to be touring - a friend once took me to a Nightwish concert there, for instance. And Atlanta is a proper city - tall buildings, insane traffic, higher crime rate, and the like. I'm not saying that Atlanta is a bad place to be, but I'd rather live here than there.

So, by your logic, am I a child, a poor elderly man, or a pathetic straggler in a dying (Auburn is expanding, but whatever) town? Granted, Auburn has more than 5000 residents, but it isn't a big city.

[CoffeeIncluded]

The city and the country are both beautiful. What's the fuss? :smallconfused:

The one place I don't like is the suburbs. The suburbs creep me out. A lot.

That's the same with me too! :smallbiggrin:

[Moff Chumley]

The city and the country are both beautiful. What's the fuss? :smallconfused:

The one place I don't like is the suburbs. The suburbs creep me out. A lot.

Actually, that's my favorite album by them. But I agree, it does get creepy at some points...

:smalltongue:

[Milskidasith]

I'd just like to point out, as an aside, that Detroit's got so many abandoned areas with plant life flourishing I'm not really sure if it's a city anymore.

[Cristo Meyers]

The city and the country are both beautiful. What's the fuss? :smallconfused:

The one place I don't like is the suburbs. The suburbs creep me out. A lot.


That's the same with me too! :smallbiggrin:

Suburbs are small towns that have money. Small towns are...well...think about any media that is a "commentary on small town life". Salem's Lot is a good example.

Guess what? They're right.

Admittedly, I'm not fond of cities either, but moving to someplace that doesn't have anyone around for at least a 3 mile radius is somewhat of a chore at this time.

[Xefas]

I know of no such urban hate. I'm with Catch's "You're suffering from perception bias" theory (although I think they mean 'confirmation bias').

As far as I'm personally concerned, I always want to live in a big city. I've lived in tiny rural specks of civilization surrounded by wilderness before, and found it lacking in anything enjoyable. The air doesn't even have flavor there, I mean c'mon.

But everyone is different. I hate nature. I hate leaves, and I hate grass, and I hate animals of all kinds. I like to go about my day seeing nothing but stone-grey, metal-grey, and glass (with some black and white furniture thrown in for color). I want the air to smell like hobos and the water to taste like aluminum and death. I want my nights filled with headlights and car alarms, and when I look up to the stars, instead I want to see giant plumes of fire and smoke billowing into the atmosphere.

That's just me, though. It doesn't surprise me if someone else likes the opposite. There's no point in being annoyed about it.

[Jade_Tarem]

Suburbs are small towns that have money. Small towns are...well...think about any media that is a "commentary on small town life", i.e.: how just about everyone is secretly depraved, ignorant, racist, or just an overall waste of life. Salem's Lot is a good example.

Guess what? They're right.

That's a hell of a generalization, and one that will probably include a fair number of posters here. Are they depraved, ignorant, racist, or wastes of life?

For reference: suburbs. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suburb) I didn't find anything in the article that says you're a terrible person for living in one.

[Snares]

That's the same with me too! :smallbiggrin:

I know, right? It's just something about huge swaths of houses upon houses, and they all look the same... and there's nothing there but these houses... it creeps me out. :smalleek:


Actually, that's my favorite album by them. But I agree, it does get creepy at some points...

:smalltongue:

Oh, you. :smalltongue: Personally, I think Neon Bible gets a lot of undue hate...


I'd just like to point out, as an aside, that Detroit's got so many abandoned areas with plant life flourishing I'm not really sure if it's a city anymore.

I actually find Detroit's situation really interesting. I'm looking forward to see how it will develop, if it turns into a kind of 'post-city', or if it just ends up being all but abandoned. I'd love to see a city of people who just work the land together to make enough money to live.


Suburbs are small towns that have money. Small towns are...well...think about any media that is a "commentary on small town life", i.e.: how just about everyone is secretly depraved, ignorant, racist, or just an overall waste of life. Salem's Lot is a good example.

Guess what? They're right.

I agree to an extent, and that's only even more creepy piled on top of the whole superficial creepiness factor. I always thought suburbs were more communities on the outskirts of cities though...

[Cristo Meyers]

I agree to an extent, and that's only even more creepy piled on top of the whole superficial creepiness factor. I always thought suburbs were more communities on the outskirts of cities though...

Exactly my point. Cutting back the, admittedly over-the-top (my apologies), hyperbole, the image of idyllic small-town/suburban life is a veneer kind of like the image of the crime-ridden cities. The folks there are just as messed up as everywhere else. The only difference is no-one does anything about it or even talks about it (except in whispered gossip).

[unosarta]

Interesting. I find that life in a smallish town (Auburn, AL - the City border touches Opelika, AL) is rather nice. I attend graduate school at Auburn University, and I don't really see my life as all that stagnant - I meet new people in class all the time (7 new people this semester so far that I see on a regular basis now). On top of that, what I know has expanded dramatically in the time I've been here, since I'm learning on a constant basis. I live in an apartment complex with about 2 dozen other people, which is owned by a single individual that cares a great deal about it, rather than a soulless housing authority. There's very little traffic, save on Game Weekends (Southeast College Football is Serious Business, guys), and can walk anywhere that I have to go as well as drive anywhere that I want to go. There's enough greenery on campus that it feels like a rural area, without the lack of modern amenities that you've complained about.
I guess I was talking about smaller than that, then. This city, Williams, Iowa, does not have paved roads, or curbs. Also, it seems rather strange that a town that were to be considered small also has a college not only in the city, but named after the city. That honestly does not really sound like a very small town, not to be offensive or anything, but rather a smaller-medium city. Of course, there is not really a good rubric for what the size of a city is, but for me, who has lived in both Minneapolis, which has 400,000 people just in the city proper, with just around 1.5 million residents in the metropolitan area, as well as a, well if you can call it that, town of 300-400 residents, who are slowly draining out of it. Let me say that, from my experience, large areas represent hope for such residents. For them, your town sounds like a big city.


Granted, huge-name shows don't come to Auburn, but Atlanta, GA is a 1 hour drive away, if your favorite band happens to be touring - a friend once took me to a Nightwish concert there, for instance. And Atlanta is a proper city - tall buildings, insane traffic, higher crime rate, and the like. I'm not saying that Atlanta is a bad place to be, but I'd rather live here than there.
In Williams, they do not have a concert hall to house such a concert, even if someone did come to it. The closest city that would have such a place would be Des Moines, which is at least an hour away.


So, by your logic, am I a child, a poor elderly man, or a pathetic straggler in a dying (Auburn is expanding, but whatever) town? Granted, Auburn has more than 5000 residents, but it isn't a big city.
By my logic, your town is not that small. Just because it is not a big city does not mean it is a small city, especially if it is above 5000 residents. Now, it may be spaced out enough, or in a scenic enough area, or with simply quiet residents, but according to my "logic," as with my post, in which I stated that those who lived in "small" cities would love to live in a city that is as large, or larger than 5000 residents. This is based on my personal experience, but I do have experience in both a larger and very small city.

[Jade_Tarem]

I guess I was talking about smaller than that, then. This city, Williams, Iowa, does not have paved roads, or curbs. Also, it seems rather strange that a town that were to be considered small also has a college not only in the city, but named after the city.

The city is named after the college. BAM! :smallamused:

But I see your point - you're talking about really small towns. Smaller than I thought.

[unosarta]

The city is named after the college. BAM! :smallamused:

But I see your point - you're talking about really small towns. Smaller than I thought.

...Ok. That doesn't really change what I am saying.

And yeah, well, to me, 5000+ isn't really a small town. I mean, it is smaller, but not really small.

Alternatively, have you ever lived in a big city? What can you compare between the two? Having not lived in a smallerish town, I do not really have a way to compare the two two "life styles" of the cities.

[Coidzor]

Eh, they're both full of horrible people and drug abuse and close-mindedness and people essentially just waiting around to die. :smallyuk:

You can find something disgusting about people if you bother to look no matter where you go.


I'd love to see a city of people who just work the land together to make enough money to live.

Wow. That's a bit harsh. I wouldn't wish that kind of poverty upon anyone.

[KuReshtin]

I guess I was talking about smaller than that, then. This city, Williams, Iowa, does not have paved roads, or curbs. Also, it seems rather strange that a town that were to be considered small also has a college not only in the city, but named after the city. That honestly does not really sound like a very small town, not to be offensive or anything, but rather a smaller-medium city. Of course, there is not really a good rubric for what the size of a city is, but for me, who has lived in both Minneapolis, which has 400,000 people just in the city proper, with just around 1.5 million residents in the metropolitan area, as well as a, well if you can call it that, town of 300-400 residents, who are slowly draining out of it. Let me say that, from my experience, large areas represent hope for such residents. For them, your town sounds like a big city.

300-400 residents isn't a town or city. That's a village. I'd say anything less than 2000-2500 would be considered a village and not a town.

Anything from that up to about 10000-15000 I'd consider a small town, then above that up to about 30000-50000 is a mid-sized town, and above that, you're talking big town/city.

At least, that's my personal opinion.




In Williams, they do not have a concert hall to house such a concert, even if someone did come to it. The closest city that would have such a place would be Des Moines, which is at least an hour away.

Which is why it was mentioned that the concerts were in Atlanta, which is about an hour's drive from Auburn.


I grew up in a village in the south of Sweden that has a population of about 1800, has a lot of fields and forests, and I really enjoy going back there every now and then.
It's about a 40-45 minute drive to get from there to the nearest bigger cities, which is just where I want the bigger cities.

I currently live in a town of about 11000-12000 in Scotland, still within about an hour of a proper big city (Glasgow, pop. ca 600k) and all the amenities that entails (concerts, sporting events, exhibitions etc.).

When I visited the US, I quite enjoyed cities like New Orleans and Charlotte, NC, but I didn't like New York City a whole lot. It was just too big and too crowded and not enough open space for me.
In fact, I found myself 'escaping' to Battery Park at the UN building to get to walk around among some trees and stuff, having a view out over the water.
I didn't get that same crowded feeling in New Orleans, for instance.

Now, I like to live where I live, and I enjoy the space away from the big city, but still being able to have the convenience of being able to get there easily.

That's just me, though.

Edit: Then again, you do get the feeling of this scenario (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnW8dmJ0Fl4) happening in the smaller towns every now and then. :smallwink::smallwink:

[X2]

Psh, I don't hate cities. Cities are AWESOME.

I agree with this.

[Lord Raziere]

Y'know whats interesting?

I live in a small town that is right next to a big city and has been influenced by said city yet at the same time not completely overtaken by it cause there is a body of water in the way, it allows enough for contact and for the small town and the city to influence each other, but not for one to overpower the other, so I live in a place where I can both experience a big city and a small town.

thing is, I don't see all that much difference, ones a bit faster, ones a bit slower, ones bigger ones smaller.....in this modern world the differences between those things are not so big anymore.

[Snares]

Wow. That's a bit harsh. I wouldn't wish that kind of poverty upon anyone.

What I meant was that I think it'd be pretty amazing for small community plots like there are in Detroit to end up as something like a whole city of them, self-sufficient in terms of food and able to sell enough to keep other basic amenities. Hell, I'd want to move there, and I can think of at least three people I know right off the top of my head who'd certainly join me.

So if you consider that poverty, then you can wish it on me any time you like.

[unosarta]

300-400 residents isn't a town or city. That's a village. I'd say anything less than 2000-2500 would be considered a village and not a town.

Anything from that up to about 10000-15000 I'd consider a small town, then above that up to about 30000-50000 is a mid-sized town, and above that, you're talking big town/city.

At least, that's my personal opinion.
Unfortunately, there really isn't a hard an fast rubric for what term one uses for cities. If there is, I know not of it.


Which is why it was mentioned that the concerts were in Atlanta, which is about an hour's drive from Auburn.
I suppose, excepting the fact that most of the people who live in Williams a) cannot drive, or are too old to drive, or b) need to stay in town in order to work.

[X2]

I don't get this Urban Hate either. That was The Kinks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL9tyzE83nc)' thing. Are we all happy to just trot along behind The Kinks a good 40 years after that album came out? Besides The Kinks weren't that great anyway.

[Lord Raziere]

actually self-sufficiency isn't that productive, as you are only getting enough for yourself and no one else and as a result, isn't community-building. The only reason why cities are formed is because we were able to have specialists efficiently produce food better than anyone else who gave rise to all the other specialists, trying to be self-sufficient would basically reduce you down to working all day just to eat three meals and you would have no time to do what you really want to do.

[Moff Chumley]

I don't get this Urban Hate either. That was The Kinks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL9tyzE83nc)' thing. Are we all happy to just trot along behind The Kinks a good 40 years after that album came out? Besides The Kinks weren't that great anyway.

Agreed, but you gotta admit they got a cool guitar tone on that one song. :smalltongue:


I actually find Detroit's situation really interesting. I'm looking forward to see how it will develop, if it turns into a kind of 'post-city', or if it just ends up being all but abandoned. I'd love to see a city of people who just work the land together to make enough money to live.

I doubt they share your enthusiasm... :smalltongue:

[Thajocoth]

I'm hoping to move into a city again real soon. It was great being able to walk everywhere. I hate driving. Driving is just pure stress.

[Snares]

I'm well aware it probably wouldn't start up at all, never mind keep going for any length of time. :smalltongue: Which is why I said it'd be amazing to see that sort of thing. Just a silly dream, y'know.

[nihilism]

Move to the country? why would anyone ever ever move to the country?

I live in alberta the country is a huge huge sea of redneck farmers. if you want nature you drive 5 hours through dusty albertan hick towns till you get to the mountains and then you experience peace, quite and/or nature.

POMPOUS INTELLECTUAL URBANITES FTW!!!!!!!!

we sit in our cafes drinking espresso and snarking about the lack of good sushi on the prairie.

well huge cities are too big, towns are to small, you need a good mixture size, and stuff to do/small and low stress.

[Thajocoth]

Humans are not born to live in the cities, (almost nothing is, obviously, save recently evolved bacteria, or something), and even when they live in it whole live, they know deep inside that something's wrong, I guess.

Birds, actually. Cities are great for them. The canyons created by the rows of tall buildings give them a big advantage. Everyone knows about pigeons in cities... There are bigger birds that hunt the pigeons too. Also rats, cockroaches... Any scavenger that can do well off of what humans toss away.

Also, humans. We build cities for a reason. It caters many conveniences to us.

[KuReshtin]

Unfortunately, there really isn't a hard an fast rubric for what term one uses for cities. If there is, I know not of it.
I am well aware of that, which is why I was very deliberate in saying that it was my opinion.
However, the almighty Wikipedia (that's an attempt at sarcasm, right there) seems to agree somewhat with my opinion on what a village is:



A village is a clustered human settlement or community, larger than a hamlet with the population ranging from a few hundred to a few thousands (sometimes tens of thousands),



I suppose, excepting the fact that most of the people who live in Williams a) cannot drive, or are too old to drive, or b) need to stay in town in order to work.

That wasn't my point.
My point was to try to explain that your example of saying that the nearest place to find a concert is in a city about an hour away is EXACTLY THE SAME as was mentioned for Auburn.
So, just because Auburn happens to have a population of 5000 or whatever, doesn't mean they get any concerts, same as Williams, population 300.

[Moff Chumley]

I feel it necessary to post Stevie Wonder in this thread.

And the miraculous thing is, the song is actually relevant (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rid-xkNS67Q)...

[Amiel]

Cities are a source of excessive pollution. Cities are a source of excessive ambivalence. Cities are a source of excessive crime.

The definition of culture is specific to each individual, while one may glorify in cities, the other lives to experience the countryside. There is no right or wrong answer, both are equally valid.

[Assassin89]

I grew up around Chicago and I'm currently in the one of the safest parts of Milwaukee right now, so I prefer living in a city sect. Otherwise, I don't really care about the either the countryside or the city. To me, they are pretty much just different sensory inputs.

[Pyrian]

The grass is always greener on the other side.In this case, the grass tends to literally be cleaner and therefore greener outside the city. :smalltongue: However, it's kind of the reverse in San Diego outside springtime, as the grass in the city gets watered while the hills outside it turn golden.


The only thing I hate about living in the city is all the goddamn vampires.You should probably get out of Santa Monica, then. :smallcool:

[Amiel]

The only thing I hate about living in the city is all the goddamn vampires.

Pics plox, or it didn't happen

:P

[Katana_Geldar]

There is actually a very quick way of telling the difference between a town and a city: a city has a cathedral.

[Cealocanth]

One of the reasons people long to leave the city is because they're sick of the annoying enclosed spaces and the constant stress. Sometimes the lack of nature gets to their heads. Most of the time a vacation is enough to solve this, but with some people, it's never enough. In some cities nature is no longer the quaking forest, towering mountains, and limitless sea, it's the potted plant on your windowsill and the tiny unkempt city park where dogs litter on an hourly basis.

This is one of the reasons I live in Colorado, downtown Denver may be a bizzing urban metropolis centered on big buisness, but we're only a hop, skip, and jump away from purple mountain magesties and amber waves of grain.

[SilentNight]

Well that's just because San Fransisco is the best city ever.

NORCAL REPRESENT :smalltongue:

WOOT WOOT!! To each their own, I enjoy living in a city, technically a suburb or SF, but the country's got its perks too.

[Amiel]

There is actually a very quick way of telling the difference between a town and a city: a city has a cathedral.

The Sophia Cathedral (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophia_Cathedral) is found within the town of Sophia (now a part of Pushkin; also a town), located 24 km (15 miles) (south) from the centre of St. Petersburg.
The Wetzlar Cathedral (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wetzlar_Cathedral) is located within the town of Wetzlar.
The Orvieto Cathedral (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orvieto_Cathedral) was built in the town of Orvieto.
The Down Cathedral (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_Cathedral) is located within the town of Downpatrick.

Lincoln Cathedral within Lincoln.
Hereford Cathedral in Hereford.
Arundel Cathedral in Arundel


:P

[Coidzor]

There is actually a very quick way of telling the difference between a town and a city: a city has a cathedral.

Oh, goody, now to figure out which game you were thinking of when you made the reference....

[Moff Chumley]

WOOT WOOT!!

I believe you mean "hella fo sho, man, NorCal is hella chill". :smalltongue:

[Amiel]

Oh, goody, now to figure out which game you were thinking of when you made the reference....

Sim City?
Any iteration.

[Katana_Geldar]

Oh, goody, now to figure out which game you were thinking of when you made the reference....

That's not from a game, it's something my dad said.

[Pyrian]

This is one of the reasons I live in Colorado, downtown Denver may be a bizzing urban metropolis centered on big buisness, but we're only a hop, skip, and jump away from purple mountain magesties and amber waves of grain.That was certainly my experience. (http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2070877&id=1171794867&l=ffeac792d9) I have to say, though, I've never met more drivers who were just so determined to prevent you from changing lanes. :smallconfused: I mean, I'm used to the occasional person who'll speed up to cut me off, but around Denver, they won't just speed up (although they do that quite aggressively), they will actually slow down, and in some cases even change lanes just to get right next to anyone with their turn signal on. :smalleek: Bizarre.

I've been surprised at just how regional driving habits are. Here in SoCal, people cannot drive in the rain. They're either causing accidents or barely moving or, occasionally, both. We'll have a slightly sprinkle and you'll hear things on the radio like "there are six separate accidents on I-805, and..."

In Massachussetts, tailgating is weirdly prevalent. I thought it was just in heavy traffic at first, but even when there's just two cars on a wide freeway, odds are one of them is right behind the other. I can only imagine they're trying to get a mileage increase.

Oregon... Oh geez, don't get me started on Oregon drivers. They can't ALL be high, but it sure seems like it sometimes. They certainly are not, by and large, in any sort of a hurry. They are generally very polite, though, and will go to significant lengths to get out of your way. My favorite Oregon driving story was on I5 heading north out of Eugene. The car in front of me FINALLY, agonizingly slowly, passed a truck and then pulled into the right lane in front of it, leaving me clear. Open road! I hit the gas and zipped on out of there, blazing past the truck, that car, and a whole line of other cars and trucks in the right lane. Then, I noticed a police car in the center divide! I looked at him. He looked at me, right down a speed radar. I looked down at my spedometer. ...I was still going 5 mph below speed limit. Poor cop. Wrong state for that task...

[Rockphed]

I'd just like to point out, as an aside, that Detroit's got so many abandoned areas with plant life flourishing I'm not really sure if it's a city anymore.

Oh, judging by the crime rate and corruption, I think it still qualifies. On the other hand, most of the abandoned areas had single family homes on them that have since been either burned down or torn out to prevent them from burning down or being used as drug houses. Detroit is a fun place.

[Winter_Wolf]

Look, aside from the fact that half of the conveniences of modern life (internet, running water) are STILL not available in many areas of the rural US, what's so great about dirt roads, crappy education, and no neighbors for miles around?

Clearly, you have never been to Milwaukee. Milwaukee Public Schools are pretty much a cesspit of failure. This going by the information rehashed regularly on the local news and in the newspaper. Other US cities I have lived in have not fared much better with their public primary end secondary educational systems.

I will also say, I grew up in BFE Alaska. A place in Southwest called Dillingham, 2200 people most of the time, bump it to say 3000 for fishing season, at the most. There are NO roads to Anchorage, which is pretty much "it" for the nearest city. We have running water, my education was first rate, and I compare that to a LOT of city slickers at the college I went to. I had a college freshman from the US of A actually say to me, and I quote, "Oh, Alaska! What country is that?" To repeat: college freshman, US citizen born and raised.

Oh, and we had paved roads since I was in grade school. Seriously, if I ever had to choose between living out in ye olde boondocks and the city sprawl, I'd be happy enough to forsake:
*Pollution. Not just from cars or burning stuff, but the sheer amount of garbage on the streets. Is it really SO hard to just walk the extra foot and drop it in the municipal garbage cans?
*Traffic jams. Lots of people, substandard public transit, rude and stupid drivers. It happens more in cities.
*Huge crowds. I need a certain amount of personal space, which I don't get when I'm pressed up against the rest of the mob. I don't feel a particular need to rush all over the place like I'm in a timed race, and I don't appreciate people getting pissy instead of going around. There's enough space, it won't kill you to just take a half step to the side.
*Concrete jumble. Sure a lot of the newer or better planned cities have a fair amount of green, but a few sickly trees and some scruffy grass is not exactly a match for real nature.
*Overpriced crap that people don't need, being pushed by huge billboards and ads plastered all over grimy buildings.

In fairness, there are things I DO like about (some) cities:
*Wide range of food. I love Indian food, I love Japanese food, I love having many choices of where to buy my cooking ingredients and ridiculous numbers of spices.
*I don't HAVE to take an airplane to get away from where I live. Given that most if not all places in the continental 48 states are connected by roads it's probably not as much an issue to most people, but for us Alaskans, flight is a necessary evil. And it sucks.
*IF I want to go out and do something social, I have more than two choices which are essentially the same thing: dive bar.

But you know what, I'm heavily biased because I grew up rural. I learned a lot of stuff that I would never have picked up being a city brat, and it's easier to pick that up than the other way 'round. People are friendlier in small communities and they aren't afraid to be nice to each other. We don't have to be "tough", don't have to hurry all over the place, and don't have to deal with people who are.

[Coidzor]

Detroit is a fun place.

You detour through the 9th circle of Hell and pay a toll of seven babies' souls to Asmodeus in order to avoid Detroit.

To wit, mentioning Detroit as an example of anything other than a place to be avoided at all costs is... unfair.

[SilentNight]

I believe you mean "hella fo sho, man, NorCal is hella chill". :smalltongue:
Hella not tryna confuse the uninitiated. :smalltongue:

[Moff Chumley]

That's hella sketch, man. Don't be so baby gap.

...To regional? :smalltongue:

[Coidzor]

That's hella sketch, man. Don't be so baby gap.

...To regional? :smalltongue:

No, too rage inducing. Seriously. Baby gap? Not cool. :smallannoyed:

Gah, now you got me to say it. :smallsigh:

[Moff Chumley]

Hey, I don't invent the ridiculous lingo, I just abuse it... :smalltongue:

[TSGames]

So why all the hate?

New York, L.A., Houston....
These cities could make anyone hate the big cities.

Other than that...


Got nothin' against the big towns...I can breathe in a small town...that's prolly where they'll bury me.

[SilentNight]

That's hella sketch, man. Don't be so baby gap.

...To regional? :smalltongue:

Baby gap's a new one even for me in the East Bay, kinda whack.

[Moff Chumley]

I'm pretty sure it's specific to my town... :smallbiggrin:

[Talore]

Move to the country? why would anyone ever ever move to the country?

I live in alberta the country is a huge huge sea of redneck farmers. if you want nature you drive 5 hours through dusty albertan hick towns till you get to the mountains and then you experience peace quite and/or nature.

POMPOUS INTELLECTUAL URBANITES FTW!!!!!!!!

we sit in our cafes drinking espresso and snarking about the lack of good sushi on the prairie.

well huge cities are too big, towns are to small, you need a good mixture size, and stuff to do/small and low stress.
Silly Albertans... never made it all the way to British Columbia :smallbiggrin:

I can't believe nobody has cited Nature as a main source. Vancouver is blessed to be in an area teeming with nature naught ten minutes away, and in B.C. in general the land is absoultely beautiful. I go into Vancouver for concerts, but being a druid I literally couldn't take being away from the trees, the mountains, the hills, the lakes.

[Moff Chumley]

Forget Urban!

Hell, forget Rural too!

SUBURBAN FOR THE WIN!!!

Wrong wrong wrong wrong... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY)

[Amiel]

Struth, the Big Smoke is where I hail, though I dislike ugg boots on principle; they're rubbish. The ridgy-didge thong is where it's at, don't knock those. They're a ripper, they are.
Pity you have to fork out too much moolah to live here and there's too many hoons. I'd like to live in the bush or outback, but I wager there'll'd be too many roos a-bout.
Fancy a mystery bag? Give it a burl.

[Moff Chumley]

Struth, the Big Smoke is where I hail, though I dislike ugg boots on principle; they're rubbish. The ridgy-didge thong is where it's at, don't knock those. They're a ripper, they are.
Pity you have to fork out too much moolah to live here and too many hoons. I'd like to live in the bush or outback, but I wager there'll'd be too many roos a-bout.
Fancy a mystery bag? Give it a burl.

Understood much of that. Try again. :smalltongue:

[Katana_Geldar]

Struth, the Big Smoke is where I hail, though I dislike ugg boots on principle; they're rubbish. The ridgy-didge thong is where it's at, don't knock those. They're a ripper, they are.
Pity you have to fork out too much moolah to live here and there's too many hoons. I'd like to live in the bush or outback, but I wager there'll'd be too many roos a-bout.
Fancy a mystery bag? Give it a burl.

You've got a few roos loose in the top paddock, mate.

[Amiel]

Translation plox

[Skeppio]

Struth, the Big Smoke is where I hail, though I dislike ugg boots on principle; they're rubbish. The ridgy-didge thong is where it's at, don't knock those. They're a ripper, they are.
Pity you have to fork out too much moolah to live here and there's too many hoons. I'd like to live in the bush or outback, but I wager there'll'd be too many roos a-bout.
Fancy a mystery bag? Give it a burl.

These words.....they were not meant for mortal eyes....

[Tirian]

In Massachussetts, tailgating is weirdly prevalent. I thought it was just in heavy traffic at first, but even when there's just two cars on a wide freeway, odds are one of them is right behind the other. I can only imagine they're trying to get a mileage increase.

My curious stereotyping of Massachusetts drivers is that they can not handle two-lane roads. What you have is the person in the "slow" lane going at the speed limit and the person in the "fast" lane proudly and defiantly going a quarter-mile over the speed limit. In every other state in the northeast (and I've literally seen better driving even a mile into Connecticut and New York), people will pass quickly on a two lane road and then shift into the slow lane if they are going slower than the general flow of traffic. In Massachusetts, no such luck. We've got an amusing and slightly profane nickname for them when they get behind the wheel, let me assure you, especially since so many of the arterial highways in the state are two-lane roads.

On the other hand, Rochester's curious driving habit is that we will pull over if there is an speeding ambulance on the road, even if we could not under any circumstances be in its way. We hear the sirens and see the lights, we pull over. Perhaps there are a lot of equally sweet "small town" cities, but I've never lived in any of them.

[Admiral Squish]

I'd say cities are very different beings. Some are great, some are terrible. For example, Detroit is clearly dying. Many of the buildings have simply been abandoned. I've seen burned-out husks of homes just sitting there exposed because nobody wants to pay to make a new one. Entire office buildings, dead and rotting. I hate detroit. Visiting for whatever reason feels like visiting a terminal cancer patient.

But Ann Arbor... God I love that city. It's alive. It thrives. It's smart and young and available. Sure, there's a homeless problem, but it's just so... vibrant, it makes up for it. I've seen poetry graffiti-ed in alleyways. I've seen a dozen people waiting for the bookstore to open up in the morning so they can go in and read. There's at least three comics shops In walking distance of each other that I know of. They have a bus system that actually works. There ar comic shops underground, clothing stores up flights of stairs. The whole place feels like a secret waiting to be discovered, and you can spend an entire day exploring and not get bored.

[Katana_Geldar]

These words.....they were not meant for mortal eyes....

She'll be apples.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

On the other hand, Rochester's curious driving habit is that we will pull over if there is an speeding ambulance on the road, even if we could not under any circumstances be in its way. We hear the sirens and see the lights, we pull over. Perhaps there are a lot of equally sweet "small town" cities, but I've never lived in any of them.

Hastings drivers do the exact same thing. And in Hastings, driving is a requirement for living there, since if you want to actually DO anything you've gotta leave town.

[Amiel]

These words.....they were not meant for mortal eyes....

Flat out like a lizard drinking.


She'll be apples.

Apples in a sanger?

[Coidzor]

Wrong wrong wrong wrong... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY)

I can almost forgive you now for your earlier transgressions against language. All is forgiven, I love you, take me back, take me away from the horror!


She'll be apples.

I think we've discovered a new Eldritch Horror ITP.... :smalleek:

[Amiel]

Fruit Cthulhu (http://www.google.com.au/images?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=s&hl=en&q=fruit%20cthulhu&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1440&bih=696); now made from 100% reconstituted souls.

[Helanna]

On the other hand, Rochester's curious driving habit is that we will pull over if there is an speeding ambulance on the road, even if we could not under any circumstances be in its way. We hear the sirens and see the lights, we pull over. Perhaps there are a lot of equally sweet "small town" cities, but I've never lived in any of them.

Freakin' Rochester. :smalltongue: Upstate New York is also apparently really well-known for people blowing through stoplights at 80 miles an hour a second after the light turns red.

I could never live in the city. Just having to drive in the city . . . well, I don't like to drive at all, especially not in heavy traffic, and especially not in the more confusing parts of the city.

Definitely give me the country . . . quiet, relaxing, peaceful, and lots and lots of space to roam around in. Except for during hunting season, where you don't want to roam around TOO much . . . hunting season is always the worst part of living in the country.

[Fifty-Eyed Fred]

Different people prefer different settings innately. I'm a rural person, and the English countryside suits me immensely. I can get by just about anywhere, but I wouldn't want to live in London out of choice, for example. I need trees and grass around me to relax properly and to give me a sense of space. Cities, while nominally convenient, are often a lot of hassle.

[bluewind95]

I live in a city, but I don't like it. So noisy, so polluted, so crowded... it's too much for me.

I do think I'd miss the commodities, though. So I've decided that what I would really like... is to live in a small town... 10 minutes from a city.

[lost_my_NHL]

Seriously! It's all over our culture in the U.S.A - no matter what movie you watch, book you read, song you listen to, whatever, everyone wants to leave the urban sprawl and move out into the country. It's seriously starting to annoy the hell out of me.
So why all the hate? Where's the love, guys?

I would argue that the United States has always had a tradition and admiration of going west, into the wilderness, and that this tradition has been reflected in its art forms and heroes. Paul Bunyan. Buffalo Bill. Davey Crockett. John Smith. Emerson. Thoreau. Bradford.

As someone who grew up near NYC, though, I love the city.

[unosarta]

I am well aware of that, which is why I was very deliberate in saying that it was my opinion.
However, the almighty Wikipedia (that's an attempt at sarcasm, right there) seems to agree somewhat with my opinion on what a village is:.
OK, then. I guess it is a village. Then my experience is based on villages and not towns. Either way, for the people who do live in this town, a city represents hope that they cannot find in their own little "village."


That wasn't my point.
My point was to try to explain that your example of saying that the nearest place to find a concert is in a city about an hour away is EXACTLY THE SAME as was mentioned for Auburn.
So, just because Auburn happens to have a population of 5000 or whatever, doesn't mean they get any concerts, same as Williams, population 300.
I realize that. However, they probably have a better chance or ability to go see those concerts, if because they are more economically able to, than people who live in Williams.

[Erloas]

I find some of the complaints about "having to drive an hour to do anything in rural areas" very ironic. Having spent 8 years living in Phoenix... it took an hour to get anywhere there to do anything too. Sure if you live in the right area of town the place you want to go might be very close, but you could easily have an hour+ drive to get to some places, potentially much longer if traffic was bad.

Right now, living in a small city (about 10-12k, about 45-50k in the county) my commute to work is 25 miles, but my travel time is about the same as it was in any of the jobs I had when living in Phoenix.

On another note, one of the few times I watched Jay Leno he was doing the newspaper bit and had the newspaper from where I live, with an interview with someone I went to school with. The two highlighted questions where, what do you like most about living here, and what do you like least about living here? The answers where: there is so much to do, and there is nothing to do.
And really it is true. If you want to do what is here to do, its a great place to live, if you want to do something that isn't here, its not a good place to live.

What I found living in Phoenix is there was nothing at all about a big city that I wanted to do. Having went from a small town, to Phoenix, and back to the small town, there is virtually nothing I miss from living in Phoenix. Even on the occasions when I do head back to a big city there is very little I can think of that I might want to do.
Here there is only one gaming group instead of several, but if you go to the same store you have the same gaming group in a big city as well, and usually there is only one store in a reasonable distance anyway.

Even shopping in a big city... its still easier, faster, and cheaper to buy stuff online then it is to buy locally. Ok, shipping to Phoenix was 1-2 days quicker then it is to where I live now, but its not a big deal. Its faster online in that in order to check even 2-3 specialty stores it takes probably 2-4 hours of driving around to do it and they might not even have what you are looking for anyway, even if it does take longer to get it shipped then to drive and pick it up, for me the delivery time is not a big deal.

[Aidan305]

That's not from a game, it's something my dad said.

It's half right. Technically speaking (within the UK, the Republic of Ireland and a fair bit of the Commonwealth) an urban area is what its charter says it is; however, to be allowed to have a charter that says you're a city there's a few things you generally need. The main one is a cathedral.

[Pyrian]

Erloas: Everybody I know who has lived in Phoenix hated it there and were glad to get out, no matter where they were from originally. :smalltongue:

[Tirian]

Freakin' Rochester. :smalltongue: Upstate New York is also apparently really well-known for people blowing through stoplights at 80 miles an hour a second after the light turns red.

:smallconfused: No worse than anywhere else, in my nearly life-long experience. There are some bad stretches of road out in the sticks where a reasonable person might fail to see a stop sign and there are some bad and frequent accidents out in those parts, but I don't think we make a particular point about doing it deliberately. We're only just now getting those silly traffic cameras (and only in the biggest cities in the state), and I don't see anyone seriously arguing that it is a critical public safety issue.

I will take this opportunity to mock the Pittsburgh Left (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_Left), though.

[The Glyphstone]

All d' people from away, youah just don't know how t' tahk right. Out theyah in places like Californier and Texahs, you'ah sound right numb with'ya fancy lingos. Settle down f' a bit, stop runnin' round and have yaselves some wicked good steamahs foah lunch.

Th' big cities, theyah be great places. No need to drive a cah, just take th' subways everywheah. S'always somethin' going on, even if tha' somethin' be someone gettin' popped down th' street.

[THAC0]

Definitely give me the country . . . quiet, relaxing, peaceful, and lots and lots of space to roam around in. Except for during hunting season, where you don't want to roam around TOO much . . . hunting season is always the worst part of living in the country.

Naw, that's the best part! For me, anyway.

[The_JJ]

I'm fine with cities, I'm fine with rural. But there are no simple ways to split them up. DC's godawful and LA's a sprawling smoggy hellhole. On the other hand, I'd love to be in Portland right now, or New York.

Heavens know though, that I was born in the big CO and would not last a year without hitting that high mountain air. Fall, spring, summer, winter, whatever, I got get my high (altitude). On the other hand, just driving through flat land (Kansas, Cornhuskerland, etc.) makes me want to shoot myself so... yeah.

[WalkingTarget]

Raised on a farm.
Went to grade school in a town of 300 people.
7th - 12th grades in a consolidated school system where the biggest town had 2300 people.
Life since then in cities on the order of 100,000 people.
Regularly visited friends in the Chicagoland area over a period of years, including frequent trips into the city proper (while individual suburbs might not be much bigger than the cities I've been living in, the fact that they're all bunched together into one continuous sprawl is the issue).

With that as my background, I've grown to like the idea of mid-sized cities isolated from major metropolitan areas. While there might not be as much going on, at least there's more going on than in the country while still not feeling like a sardine in a can.

I like going back home and visiting my family, and I really enjoy the sense of space you get being out in the middle of nowhere, but I probably wouldn't want to live there again or raise a family in a town that small/isolated (see unosarta's post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9522507&postcount=13) on the first page).

Becoming friends with people from the 'burbs during college, it always amazed me that they could complain about there being "nothing to do" in our college town. There are limiting factors, but it's not like there's nothing going on. Hell, there's at least a descent movie theater closer than an hour away. I dislike the sheer number of people you have to deal with when going anywhere near Chicago. Basically, if gridlock is something that can happen, I don't want to be anywhere near the place.

I'm something of a homebody, though, and that probably colors my perceptions of things. I don't need a ton of stuff to do out in the city, I usually prefer to sit around with a group of friends and just hang out and chat, which can be done at (somebody's) home. Where some people see the large population in cities as "life and culture" others see "a great big hassle".

[kyoryu]

It's interesting reading this thread. But cities and smaller towns (or even rural areas) have their benefits, and disadvantages.

While public transportation in this thread seems to be listed as a major plus, the opposite (reduced traffic) is not frequently listed.

Also, one major disadvantage of city life (PRICE) hasn't been mentioned a single time.

I suspect that's because the age distribution on this board skews young. And I'll admit, for younger people, city life has a ton of advantages, and many of the disadvantages don't apply.

My personal preference skews towards smaller cities - small enough that you can get away from everybody, but large enough that most of the amenities of city life are available. I really enjoyed living in Austin, for instance.

[LordOMud]

Look, aside from the fact that half of the conveniences of modern life (internet, running water) are STILL not available in many areas of the rural US, what's so great about dirt roads, crappy education, and no neighbors for miles around?
Well, I live in the country, and every person I know has internet and running water. Hell, you'll get your kids taken away from you if you don't have running water. Sure, It's all fine and dandy to think that there is a place out there where it's like driving back in time, but unless you go to Amish country, every house is going to have modern conveniences. And as far as education goes, I've been to a couple of city schools, and besides the fact that teachers can be kinda judgmental, I prefer the ones in the country.


Culture happens there. Life happens there. .
Now this statement almost made me fall out of my chair from laughing. Culture is one of the most important things to people in the country

[Helanna]

:smallconfused: No worse than anywhere else, in my nearly life-long experience. There are some bad stretches of road out in the sticks where a reasonable person might fail to see a stop sign and there are some bad and frequent accidents out in those parts, but I don't think we make a particular point about doing it deliberately. We're only just now getting those silly traffic cameras (and only in the biggest cities in the state), and I don't see anyone seriously arguing that it is a critical public safety issue.

I will take this opportunity to mock the Pittsburgh Left (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_Left), though.

Oh, I didn't mean to imply that it was a real safety hazard. I've just heard that Western New York is well-known for that in some areas - don't even know if it's true or not, though it wouldn't surprise me.

Though the Pittsburgh Left thing looks . . . mildly dangerous, to say the least.


Naw, that's the best part! For me, anyway.

I don't mind hunting season in general, except for occasional hunters walking across my backyard to the 20-foot wide strip of trees (Seriously, there are practically no deer lurking there, please leave my yard). I'm always just afraid that my dog will get hurt, though, so she gets chained up a lot more during hunting season.

Another bonus about the country: I don't have to chain my dog up every time she needs to go out. (My sister's dog needs to be, but that's because he's an idiot and still hasn't learned to avoid the road, or to actually come to his name.)

[Rogue 7]

Now this statement almost made me fall out of my chair from laughing. Culture is one of the most important things to people in the country

You're working on very different definitions of "culture", I think. Culture, the way Gareth is defining it is the new artist at the art gallery downtown, the immigrant restaurant offering food you've never tried before, the bizzare new gadgets at the electronics store. The definition you're working on, I would guess, would be the traditions, the family gathering for Thanksgiving every year, the family history stretching back generations. Am I correct in both cases? Because those are different, rather than better, and fairly necessarily incompatible due to the way one depends on lots of people in an area, while the other depends on a few people you know well.

Me, I'm suburban born and bred. It is almost literally impossible to get more Suburban than Westfield, New Jersey. And oddly, I've found myself unable to state definitively where I'd rather live. The suburbs are nice- there's generally stuff to do, you can walk to a few local places, everyone's got a nice amount of space without being miles away, and, well, people generally have money. That doesn't say anything about what kind of people they are, but it's nice for having friends with cool gadgets, or eating at nice restaurants. At the same time, the suburbs lack the energy that makes a city pulse. They don't have the fabulous diversity of a lot of cities, or anything that makes them unique like you get in a city. They're also cut off from nature- you'll generally have to drive just as far from a suburb as from a city to get to real wilderness, and you can't get as isolated and alone as you can in the country.

Cities are wonderful for diversity, uniqueness (you would never mistake LA for New York, I think), more things to do than you can think of, new places to explore every day, being on the cutting edge of trends, technology, hell, anything. Stuff happens in a city, unlike anywhere else. I've lived near New York all my life, and I miss Tokyo like burning. Each city has something you can't get anywhere else in the world, and that's truly wonderful. And at the same time, you're never alone, it's never quiet, you can never look out your window and see natural beauty (Which is not to say a city skyline can't be beautiful. I remember when I first got to Tokyo, looking out my window at night over a little sub-city by the name of Makuhari, and being absolutely stunned. That's when it really hit me that I was in Japan), you can't take a walk and revel in the quiet, you're surrounded by people you've never seen before and will never see again, and if you want a decent amount of living space, it's going to cost you an arm and a leg. Cities are dirty, cramped, noisy, and impersonal.

Rural areas are great for solitude. You can be all alone, with no one around for miles, and not care what you do because no one is going to see you do it. You can get to know your neighbors intimately, there's no chance that they'll get lost in the bustle. You've got the space to do what you want. You can be surrounded by nature, or at least have it very close by. That's a major plus. At the same time, there's often nothing to do that isn't hours away by car. You may not like your neighbors. There's nothing new, and if there is, it comes very slowly. Rural areas can be hidebound, slow to accept change. There are more difficulties that you have to deal with yourself, since other people aren't as close.

I, personally, like a balance. I had a truly glorious time living in Tokyo this year, and I miss it more every freakin' day. But when I got back home, I loved taking a trip with my family out West, up to Lake Tahoe and Lassen National Park, getting away from everyone and everything into the mountains and nature. I couldn't tell you which one I'd pick if I couldn't ever visit another type of area- suburbs, city, or rural. I think I might go with the city, though.

TL;DR- each area has its positives and negatives, and each person will evaluate which one they like more to their own tastes.

[Fax Celestis]

I just have one thing.


Look, aside from the fact that half of the conveniences of modern life (internet, running water)

I just love that you equate the intertubes to the plumbing tubes.

[Rogue 7]

I just have one thing.



I just love that you equate the intertubes to the plumbing tubes.

Hey, I've had to do my business in the woods before. If it's a choice between that and never going on the internet again, bring on the bears!

[Lord_Gareth]

I just love that you equate the intertubes to the plumbing tubes.

With the exception of three (wife, child, former room-mate), everyone on the planet that I remotely give a damn about is accessible to me soley via the internet. Furthermore, it's hard to get ahead in the Information Age without access to -ahem- information.

Rogue's statement on culture is accurate, and I have to say that I don't like rural culture. Every time I've tried to get to know a small town it seems like its traditions have turned into a choking poison; 'outsiders' and 'new folks' are excluded. People that are different are shunned. Laws are bent or ignored for certain family names, and others just can't catch a friggin' break. I like meeting new people all the time. I like having the option to go eat some baby octopus if the mood strikes me. New pool hall have wacky decorations? You know I'm there, soaking in the noise, the music, the laughter, the life. There's no life out in the middle of nowhere, just tiny little bastions of changeless stability. As a child of change, I feel choked in a rural environment.

[KnightDisciple]

I just have one thing.



I just love that you equate the intertubes to the plumbing tubes.No doubt. I'm not much for "back in my day", but "the internet" is definitely a secondary priority next to a lot of stuff.

As well, I'm not sure where the idea that you can't get internet or running water in rural areas comes from. I have family down in northwestern Arkansas/southwestern Missouri. They have internet and running water. My grandparents' farm had 2 sources of water, to boot! No internet, but that was by their choice.

Someone said something a couple pages back about people in small towns being "wastes of life"; I don't appreciate an untrue comment like that. :smallannoyed:'


As for the general topic of the thread: I think, as several people have stated, it comes down to taste.

Me, I'd hate to live fully inside a major metropolis. The traffic, the noise, the street layout: Ugh. No thank you. I prefer the ability to freely choose my time of leaving and my destination, so I prefer my own vehicle.

As well, suburbs have everything I actually care about; I can buy food, clothes, music, movies, games, and so on without entering a "big city". I can go to a movie in the suburbs. If I actually get the urge to see a play or something, I can drive a bit further and do so. But "stuff happens in a city" does nothing for me. I don't like partying with random strangers, so such "happenings" are worthless. I'd rather take a couple extra minutes and go drive to hang out with my friends. Tabletop gaming has been "connections via friends" as well, so that's that.

And honestly, if one weren't as "nerdy" as me, I could see even more appeal for rural life. I can definitely appreciate the quiet and the space and the nature, though I don't like yardwork, so it's just nice to visit. :smalltongue:

But visually, cities are "bleh" for me, if not garish. Vegas, pretty? More like an eyesore.

The thought of everything somehow migrating inwards to mega-cities, including farming in some sort of steel and glass tower, just makes me cringe.

I don't think there's a true inherent superiority to cities, suburbs, big towns, small towns, or rural areas. Different people like different areas. If you feel like the music you listen to endorses something you don't like, find different music. :smalltongue:

[Lord_Gareth]

Farming on rooftops and inside skyscrapers is about efficiency, my friend. The rise of the mega farm has been killing the private farmer, and now the mega farm is slowly dying all on its own. Why? The model is out-dated. Frankly, so is the concept of the lawn, but that one seems to be clinging to life like some kind of unholy revenant, desperate to take revenge on efficient use of land to grow food.

BRING BACK THE VICTORY GARDENS, DAMNIT!

[KnightDisciple]

Um...lawns are for people to play in, do stuff in, store stuff in...

Land isn't just about growing food.

As for farming on rooftops: Maybe if you like that lovely tang of smog in your beans. Part of the reason to keep farms outside cities is so that the environment is at least somewhat clearer of various taints. I mean, it's the same concept behind organic farming, not giving cows hormone shots, and so on. It's about quality of taste. But anyways.

People like their space. Some people like lots of space. Thus, they don't live crammed in a city, they live in the country. Some people like moderate space, so they get a suburban house with a lawn.

Really, you're dangerously close to doing what you're angry at: dismissing an entire subset of American culture because you don't like it.

[Lord_Gareth]

Ah, I was referring to the concept of farming for mass food production as being outdated, my friend (though some plants - like sunflowers - just need lots of space). Not rural life in general.

EDIT: Also, the land spent on maintaining lawns alone in this country exceeds the billions per year. BILLIONS. PER. YEAR. To grow what? Grass? That's REDOKULOUS! Go to a park or something if you wanna play in the grass!

[Killer Angel]

Regarding the OP, I find annoying both big cities and rural countryside (obviously for different reasons). I prefere a small town (10-15k peoples), for relative modern comforts and a near countryside.

[The_JJ]

With the exception of three (wife, child, former room-mate), everyone on the planet that I remotely give a damn about is accessible to me soley via the internet. Furthermore, it's hard to get ahead in the Information Age without access to -ahem- information.

Rogue's statement on culture is accurate, and I have to say that I don't like rural culture. Every time I've tried to get to know a small town it seems like its traditions have turned into a choking poison; 'outsiders' and 'new folks' are excluded. People that are different are shunned. Laws are bent or ignored for certain family names, and others just can't catch a friggin' break. I like meeting new people all the time. I like having the option to go eat some baby octopus if the mood strikes me. New pool hall have wacky decorations? You know I'm there, soaking in the noise, the music, the laughter, the life. There's no life out in the middle of nowhere, just tiny little bastions of changeless stability. As a child of change, I feel choked in a rural environment.


It cuts both ways. A city can have more people but be far more impersonal. You become a statistic, a walking wallet or an annoyance waste of space, be it on street sidewalk or subway. For every small town where you simply aren't on the in yet there's the ones where everyone will smile and wave at the new place, point out the best places to do X in town with almost no prompting, and gladly help you out with anything you need.

I hate the hate man, but that cuts both ways. You seem to be on one side. I encourage everyone to step outside the biases and immerse yourself in something new. Accept the good and the bad, and move on. [/Zen Boulder hippy speak]

Also, rural areas with no internet? Probably by choice. No running water? Probably don't need it. Spring water is tasty. If you want real poverty in America, hit the streets of an urban center.

[WalkingTarget]

Go to a park or something if you wanna play in the grass!

Well, then we get into the deal again with people wanting their grass to play in. A space that is theirs that they don't have to share with anybody.

Back in high school me and my friends had a weekly football game at my house (because I was relatively close to where everybody lived and we had a big, level, rectangular yard that was perfect for playing). This was full-tackle football and we didn't use anything like safety equipment. If we were relegated to the only "public" area suitable (i.e. on school grounds) we wouldn't have been allowed to play the way we wanted.

[Lord_Gareth]

Also, rural areas with no internet? Probably by choice. No running water? Probably don't need it. Spring water is tasty. If you want real poverty in America, hit the streets of an urban center.

I didn't say poverty, I said a lack of modern conveniences/advances. For example, there are numerous people outside the town of Blissfield, Michigan that must buy their water from the local plant and haul it themselves for use in their homes. These same people are denied service by local internet providers because the population density is too small to turn any kind of reasonable profit. My (newly) local area in Kansas has the same song and dance as well, and don't get me started on Nebraska >.>

[Dubious Pie]

I live in the most southern rednecky place possible without actually being in the south. My house has a shooting slat in the indoor patio. I long to move to Seattle, best damn big city in the country.

[KnightDisciple]

Ah, I was referring to the concept of farming for mass food production as being outdated, my friend (though some plants - like sunflowers - just need lots of space). Not rural life in general.

EDIT: Also, the land spent on maintaining lawns alone in this country exceeds the billions per year. BILLIONS. PER. YEAR. To grow what? Grass? That's REDOKULOUS! Go to a park or something if you wanna play in the grass!Well, the problem is, there's not as much consistent farming space in cities. And many plants, such as grain, need a fair amount of space dedicated to them to give a decent return.

Beyond that, there's the fact that you'd really just be moving the "industry" to cities. Plenty of people don't have the time or inclination to keep a whole bunch of plants in a densely-packed garden. I'm one of them; I'm just no good with plants. My dream yard would be something like a Japanese rock garden or the like.
But circling back, the reason there are large farms outside of cities is so that large amounts of various produce items can then be moved to points of sale. The demand in a city is much, much higher than the viable land area, unless you build giant food towers, dozens (at least) of stories high. Which is likely less efficient than just driving an hour out of the city and having a nice big farm.

And again, yards are for personal space as much as they are for playing in. In an apartment complex, if your neighbor smokes, you have to deal with it. With a house with a yard, it's rare any trace of it makes it to your senses.

Finally, it's a free country. If someone wants to "waste" their money on a nice lawn around their house, it's their choice. Don't get twisted up in knots about it.

[The_JJ]

Farming on rooftops and inside skyscrapers is about efficiency, my friend. The rise of the mega farm has been killing the private farmer, and now the mega farm is slowly dying all on its own. Why? The model is out-dated. Frankly, so is the concept of the lawn, but that one seems to be clinging to life like some kind of unholy revenant, desperate to take revenge on efficient use of land to grow food.

BRING BACK THE VICTORY GARDENS, DAMNIT!

I feel sorry for your childhood. The lawn is an important space for play and socializing and would be number one on my list of 'things I'd miss in the big city.'

Also, cities are terribly inefficient. The ideal of efficiency would be small self contained communities. You know, more rural than rural.

[Lord_Gareth]

I feel sorry for your childhood. The lawn is an important space for play and socializing and would be number one on my list of 'things I'd miss in the big city.'

Eh, lawns are overrated. I always had one growing up and I always hated it, especially being forced to go outside where there was nothing to do and not being allowed to bring a book or my Game Boy or something. I dunno, maybe the whole 'socialization with my peers' thing soured when I got the crap kicked out of me for being the only one to pay attention in school. I grew up in a pretty small town. Familiarity has bred contempt.

[WalkingTarget]

Eh, lawns are overrated. I always had one growing up and I always hated it, especially being forced to go outside where there was nothing to do and not being allowed to bring a book or my Game Boy or something. I dunno, maybe the whole 'socialization with my peers' thing soured when I got the crap kicked out of me for being the only one to pay attention in school. I grew up in a pretty small town. Familiarity has bred contempt.

How about being forced to go outside in order to do manual labor with limited access to 'socialization with my peers' of any sort outside of school until a few years before I left for college?

I don't miss the yard work associated with lawns, but having space to run around in/trees to climb/etc. was a positive.

It sucks that you got picked on, but that's not the lawn's fault.

[The_JJ]

Eh, lawns are overrated. I always had one growing up and I always hated it, especially being forced to go outside where there was nothing to do and not being allowed to bring a book or my Game Boy or something. I dunno, maybe the whole 'socialization with my peers' thing soured when I got the crap kicked out of me for being the only one to pay attention in school. I grew up in a pretty small town. Familiarity has bred contempt.

See, that's nice, but it's a personal opinion. And obviously one with a lot of extraneous bias hanging onto it. Open yourself up to the possibility that you don't hate small towns, just your small town or, barring that, that other people have different tastes.

You complain about the hate on urban, but that's not what we're talking about here. It's not about you hating on small towns. You got pissed enough to rant on the Internet based on perceived slights in the media. Grant us the right to talk back when you make direct attacks.


Also, I got mowing the lawn down to a Zen like meditative science.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

I've lived in the boonies since I was 10, before that the suburbs suburbs. For a couple years I lived in the city. Have experienced each one, and I enjoy places without a lot of people. I like my space and my privacy and my independence.

I was also the eldest of ten kids. Though I can handle a lot of people better than most, I don't enjoy crowds. I think raising kids in the country is healthy, and in particular my parents place is amidst rolling grassy hills, with about 50 acres of woods, including creeks, springs and waterfalls. They can run around in the grass, play with the dogs and catch fireflies. I can name a thousand things to entertain yourself with and not pay a dime, and you'll have a great time. Those who find the country boring are simply ignorant of what it offers. It's out here that inspires so much of my writing. There is still magic out here.

I'm also a great fan of hiking, the outdoors and exploring. I'm big into photography. However, in the city, while this is possible, its a lot more dangerous. For one, most places you have to have a permit to go into, if you can at all. Most of the time you'd have to be trespassing. Then most of the 'hidden away' locales are those that house the homeless, fugitives, and those who just in general don't want to be seen. There are those in the country as well, but by its very nature they are few and far between.

I'm no redneck, nor hill billy or hippie. A friend from the suburbs once told me when I took them through the woods to a waterfall I'd discovered that I just seemed to 'belong' out there. That I'm like a fey creature.

I frankly just find the city dull and stressful at the same time. Museums and restaurants and such have their place, but I'm no club hopper, and I'm not much of a people watcher. I don't enjoy drama.

You also can't usually have many, if any, pets. I have a huskie, as well as an emu. Can't really have either in the city.

I was in the edges of Atlanta for 2 years with one of my jobs, kept pets at relatives. I hated the traffic, the pollution, the obnoxious inhabitants, everything. I lived 26 years without any ticket or citation of any kind. I'm there three months and manage to wrack up one a month. One even I got for being parked in my own driveway (long, stupid story, but I took it to court and won).
Everyone of my friends there plan to move into the boonies.

However, I also lived in Nashville for a time. Loved the place, but then, I'm told Nashville is different than any other major city in the world. Amongst other things, everything is based around music, and not country, but all varieties. You walk the streets, and every few feet a new song from someone. It's like having your own background tune. Still has many city annoyances, but they are muted. I plan to write an urban fantasy novel based there.

[Keld Denar]

Cities are better than settlements. This should be obvious. Cities are worth 2 Victory Points each, while a settlement is only worth one. Cities also allow you to collect double resources, or possibly garner commodities.

So yes, cities are straight up better. This should be self-evident.

[shadow_archmagi]

Cities are better than settlements. This should be obvious. Cities are worth 2 Victory Points each, while a settlement is only worth one. Cities also allow you to collect double resources, or possibly garner commodities.

So yes, cities are straight up better. This should be self-evident.

This is pretty much the best post here and it completely justifies my clicking on this thread

[742]

first off the key to enjoying a rural enviroment: stay the hell away from the people

second: american culture has a tendency to romanticize simplicity stupidity and the past, all of which occur frequently in rural culture.

third: the main body of the movie industry is located in LA, and while i wouldnt mind living in new york or chicago, and would absolutely love to live in SF or seattle; LA was born of oil and raised on LCD pop culture and drugs.

i would rather live in LA than any non-wooded flatland rural setting, but i would rather [less horrifying and disgusting than original thought]stab myself in the eye [/less horrifying and disgusting than original thought] than live in one of those.

[Keld Denar]

and would absolutely love to live in <snip> seattle
You could always just do what I did...pack up all crap you can fit in a car (give the rest away), drive 2500 miles, and make this a reality. It was kinda scary, but not overly difficult. Seattle is pretty much the best city in teh WORLDZ!!!!

[Lord_Gareth]

If the past occurs frequently, does that mean that anything too small to be a town is trapped in a recurring time loop?

[742]

i meant past-like things, but from what ive seen im not entirely sure your incorrect.

[Knaight]

You assume particularly low quality rural areas, just like others have been assuming particularly low quality urban areas. There is high variety in both. For instance, I currently live in a city, but it has wide roads, lots and lots of trees, and has a fair few open spaces, there are others which are tightly packed. I've seen rural areas which have dirt, rocks, and more dirt, and rural areas which have actual scenery, and this is looking just at surroundings. Communities vary as well, some are horrible and fit your description, some are extremely nice, and there is very little direct correlation between town size and community values on anything other than town size.

[Coidzor]

The problem being, you can spot low-quality urban areas easily. Everyone knows about 'em or can easily find out about 'em.

Low-quality rural areas you don't know until you've been lynched because they're insular and peer pressure keeps any kind of whistle-blowing or accountability from being viable.

[THAC0]

Awesome Rural Thing Of The Day (or Night): Stars.

No, I don't mean the five you can see from your city apartment.

One of my favorite things about getting away from civilization is a clear night and billions of stars sparkling in the sky. It's magical.

[druid91]

* The smoke and fog. Where I live now it's lower down, so it's actually colder and foggier, sometimes frost stays on the lawn in ths shady parts until 11am. It also means it's very wet in winter, even on a fine day.

Thats a con?:smallconfused: If that's a con I want more cons like that.:smalltongue:


I know of no such urban hate. I'm with Catch's "You're suffering from perception bias" theory (although I think they mean 'confirmation bias').

As far as I'm personally concerned, I always want to live in a big city. I've lived in tiny rural specks of civilization surrounded by wilderness before, and found it lacking in anything enjoyable. The air doesn't even have flavor there, I mean c'mon.

But everyone is different. I hate nature. I hate leaves, and I hate grass, and I hate animals of all kinds. I like to go about my day seeing nothing but stone-grey, metal-grey, and glass (with some black and white furniture thrown in for color). I want the air to smell like hobos and the water to taste like aluminum and death. I want my nights filled with headlights and car alarms, and when I look up to the stars, instead I want to see giant plumes of fire and smoke billowing into the atmosphere.

That's just me, though. It doesn't surprise me if someone else likes the opposite. There's no point in being annoyed about it.

I've seen multiple movies and stories where people pack up to leave the stressful city and go to the country. I have seen just as many movies about some country kid who wants to "get out" and get to the city.

But I agree with the bottom. Nature, is messy. and open, and just generally unpleasant for me unless I'm digging. Or burning something. Go Go Gadget Pyromania!


Awesome Rural Thing Of The Day (or Night): Stars.

No, I don't mean the five you can see from your city apartment.

One of my favorite things about getting away from civilization is a clear night and billions of stars sparkling in the sky. It's magical.

Stars are overrated. It's the moon that's important.

[THAC0]

Stars are overrated. It's the moon that's important.

I must disagree! The stars sparkle more enchantingly sans moon. :smallbiggrin:

[druid91]

I have never once felt drunk from looking at stars, just the moon.

Yes I'm weird.

[Knaight]

Funny thing is, you can see the stars from most cities. Not New York or Los Angeles maybe, and certainly not Tokyo or Bankok, with Mexico City right out, but smaller cities usually pose no problem. Even fairly large smaller cities, such as Kobe.

[Amiel]

However, living in the city will not prepare you for the inevitable zombie apocalypse.

[Helanna]

EDIT: Also, the land spent on maintaining lawns alone in this country exceeds the billions per year. BILLIONS. PER. YEAR. To grow what? Grass? That's REDOKULOUS! Go to a park or something if you wanna play in the grass!

I know this is a bit past, but I will hurt anyone trying to take my lawn away. I would go absolutely crazy without my own little space. Cities are waaaaaaaay too crowded, and there's no space for really nice outdoor gardens! I only just got into gardening this year, but I really enjoy it. Not having a lawn would kind of limit the possibility of having a garden - where I can and do (try to) grow my own food, after all.



You also can't usually have many, if any, pets. I have a huskie, as well as an emu. Can't really have either in the city.


While I cannot stress how strongly I agree with everything you just said - emu? What? That's fantastic! I've been trying to convince my mom to build a chicken coop and/or llama farm in her backyard, but so far she refuses.


Awesome Rural Thing Of The Day (or Night): Stars.

No, I don't mean the five you can see from your city apartment.

One of my favorite things about getting away from civilization is a clear night and billions of stars sparkling in the sky. It's magical.

Yeah. Stars. Pretty much all there is to say. On a clear night at my house, the entire sky is just filled with them, there's practically no dark space between the faintest ones, and the entire yard is lit up like daytime just from the stars. One of the things I hate the most about being in the city - or even large towns - is the inability to truly see the stars.

And yeah, the moon totally takes away from the magnificence of the stars on the best nights - blocks them out just like city lights. When I say stars, I mean every available space just filled with millions and millions of lights, full of different colors and strengths and brightnesses, all just scattered across the sky. I know I'm harping on about them, but seriously, a good night is just one of the most inspiring things you will ever see (subject to personal opinion, of course).

Edit: Arrrgghhh looking back on what I wrote it just doesn't even begin to describe it. Also arrrgghhh why do I post so much rambling nonsense after midnight?

[THAC0]

Funny thing is, you can see the stars from most cities. Not New York or Los Angeles maybe, and certainly not Tokyo or Bankok, with Mexico City right out, but smaller cities usually pose no problem. Even fairly large smaller cities, such as Kobe.

Nope. Not they way you can see them when you're 80 miles from the nearest settlement large enough to have a gas station.

Seriously. I used to think what you could see in the 'burbs were stars. Then I went backpacking. It was beyond words.

[Xyk]

Disclaimer: I did not read this thread, just most of the first post.

Arcade Fire's newest album "The Suburbs" praises the inner city while attacking the suburbs. I'm tempted to agree most of the time. But to each his own.

I live in the suburbs and am not thrilled with the suburban culture. Especially when the amazing weird culture of downtown Austin is only about a half-hour drive away. :smallannoyed:

[Lord_Gareth]

I, too, find much more magic and romance in the moon than the stars, though I have appreciated the stars under a clear country sky before.

[The_JJ]

Nope. Not they way you can see them when you're 80 miles from the nearest settlement large enough to have a gas station.

Seriously. I used to think what you could see in the 'burbs were stars. Then I went backpacking. It was beyond words.

Oh God yes. Utah Canyonlands in the fall? 0 moisture in the air, climb up to a hogback under the pleasant burn of the day's fatigue and the weight of fajitas browned on a pot lid over a propane stove because the pan was filled with delicious sliced pepper and juicy chicken bits... lie back, in silence but with (parental figure/bro/SO), and watch the Milky Way. Screw Thanksgiving, I'm getting my bike on. See you in Moab.

... yeah, I've been in LA to long. Time for a little vacation. Before I lose it out here.

God, if not Moab, I wish I were in Portland right now. Or good old BoCo. Maybe New York. Or... San Fransisco? It's a pretty city. I might get to sneak into a Mythbuster's experiment.

[Coidzor]

Nope. Not they way you can see them when you're 80 miles from the nearest settlement large enough to have a gas station.

Seriously. I used to think what you could see in the 'burbs were stars. Then I went backpacking. It was beyond words.

To be fair, once you're that far out, you'd be having more fun in "wilderness" rather than "rural" areas.

The problem with wilderness being that we naturally destroy it via contact. :/

[LordOMud]

To be fair, once you're that far out, you'd be having more fun in "wilderness" rather than "rural" areas.

The problem with wilderness being that we naturally destroy it via contact. :/
Every rural community I've ever lived in is within walking distance of the "wilderness"

[Jessicat]

I am city kitty. I'm the kind of person that goes absolutely crazy when i'm away from bright lights, people and the ambient noises of traffic and sirens that lull me to sleep every night. I spend so much of my time enjoying the city nightlife that I would not know what to do with myself if I was suddenly deposited in the country - although a couple of my rural friends have tempted me out with the concept of ATVing and paintball. heh. heh.

I also find I am allergic to anything out there that will bite me. Which is EVERYTHING in nature. So I don't get along with camping neither, unless I get to hang out in the smoke path of a fire all night. :/ So i'll take the concrete jungle, personally.

But what I do love about being outside of the city is the stars. Oh my god the stars, how I miss them so.

[Amiel]

Welcome to the forums, Jessicat.

I like being Australian, we have a nice mix of the country and the city within suburbia.

[The_JJ]

I am city kitty. I'm the kind of person that goes absolutely crazy when i'm away from bright lights, people and the ambient noises of traffic and sirens that lull me to sleep every night. I spend so much of my time enjoying the city nightlife that I would not know what to do with myself if I was suddenly deposited in the country - although a couple of my rural friends have tempted me out with the concept of ATVing and paintball. heh. heh.

I also find I am allergic to anything out there that will bite me. Which is EVERYTHING in nature. So I don't get along with camping neither, unless I get to hang out in the smoke path of a fire all night. :/ So i'll take the concrete jungle, personally.

But what I do love about being outside of the city is the stars. Oh my god the stars, how I miss them so.

That is a wonderful avatar.

[Moff Chumley]

Disclaimer: I did not read this thread, just most of the first post.

Arcade Fire's newest album "The Suburbs" praises the inner city while attacking the suburbs. I'm tempted to agree most of the time. But to each his own.

I live in the suburbs and am not thrilled with the suburban culture. Especially when the amazing weird culture of downtown Austin is only about a half-hour drive away. :smallannoyed:

OI! I already dropped that reference! :smallmad:

[toasty]

Hmm... I grew up in the one of the world's worst cities: Dhaka, Bangladesh. Power cuts, water shortages, horrible traffic conditions, smog, pollution, regular riots, corruption from the guy who sells you rice to the mayor. It is officially one of the world's worst cities.

It is also made of win. :smalltongue: Yes, its noisy. Yes, every day the main road gets into a tremendous snarl as children go to school and adults go to the office. Yes, the pollution is to the point where I will probably suffer some sort of horrible lung disease later in life. Etc, etc.

But you know what? There is this awesome shop that sells pooris near my church and they are amazing. There is this Jhal Murri vendors everywhere. There is a LAN Center near my house. There are 12 million plus people in the city! Its crowded and exciting and awesome!

In comparison, small towns are dull and boring without a lot to do. Bands don't come to small-towns, they hit the big cities. Culture doesn't spring out of small towns with the same regularity.

Now, small towns are awesome. There is something cool about living in the middle of nowhere, but I think I'd rather have the city as my primary base. I visited London two years ago. It was just a day, but the city was amazing. There was so much excitement and action everywhere, from street performers to people running about on their day-to-day business. That's what I want in my life. I want thousands of people surrounding me most of the time, cuz when you have that many people in close proximity, things happen! And that's awesome. :smallcool:

[Knaight]

Nope. Not they way you can see them when you're 80 miles from the nearest settlement large enough to have a gas station.

Seriously. I used to think what you could see in the 'burbs were stars. Then I went backpacking. It was beyond words.

Maybe I'm just too used to the mountains, cities up here have much better views than rural or even abandoned areas down at sea level.

[The Glyphstone]

However, living in the city will not prepare you for the inevitable zombie apocalypse.

What sort of rural/suburban environment do you live in that has zombie attacks on a semi-regular basis?:smallfrown::smallconfused:

I live in the city - specifically, on a college campus - and I think evading packs of drunken frat boys on my way home Friday nights is all the preparation I need for the zombie uprising.

[Keld Denar]

Wait, packs of drunken fratboys aren't zombies? I was lied to!!!

[is secretly a frat boy, and some times drunken]

[Knaight]

Wait, packs of drunken fratboys aren't zombies? I was lied to!!!

[is secretly a frat boy, and some times drunken]

Well, if you need to hide the drunked fratboy bodies, I have a book to sell you.

[Don Julio Anejo]

I think evading packs of drunken frat boys on my way home Friday nights is all the preparation I need for the zombie uprising.
No, see, you're doing it all wrong :tongue: You should be among the drunken frat boys terrorizing your local college campus! Get to know the enemy from the inside. This way, when the zombies attack, all you have to do is pop the collar on your Abercrombie muscle polo (you are wearing one when the zombies attack, right?) and they will mistake you for one of their own.

[Amiel]

What sort of rural/suburban environment do you live in that has zombie attacks on a semi-regular basis?:smallfrown::smallconfused:

Not me personally, but New Zealand perhaps?
Allegedly there are more sheep than people in New Zealand. Considering the rapidity at which viral strains mutate and move across species, an infection - should it occur - may be disastrous.

It would quickly spread over the Tasman to the land of Oz, wherein kangaroos may help in its spread; mutating it further. Here, the infection may combine with strains of bird or swine flu, and as Australia is a popular tourist destination, especially amongst the Asian countries, this infection may cross waters and hit the heartlands of Asia, producing a pandemic.

The only symptoms detectable of such an illness is a feeling of gnawing hunger, excessive drooling and a shambling gait...

[Dallas-Dakota]

There are 12 million plus people in the city!

My country has 17 million people.

e.e

[Amiel]

Shanghai, the city (covers a 6,218 km2; 2,401 sq mi area), has 19+ million people; Australia, the country (covering a 7,617,930 km2; 2,941,299 sq mi area), has 22 million.

[Helanna]

What sort of rural/suburban environment do you live in that has zombie attacks on a semi-regular basis?:smallfrown::smallconfused:

I live in the city - specifically, on a college campus - and I think evading packs of drunken frat boys on my way home Friday nights is all the preparation I need for the zombie uprising.

Psh, my college campus is near the city, and twice a year we have zombie attack training. (In the form of the game Humans vs. Zombies).

Although one of the reasons I'm commuting to my college (half an hour away from my house) is just because I don't want to live so close to a city . . . and also because it would cost 6 times more than my tuition. But partially because I like the country!

[Amiel]

By the time the zombie apocalypse rolls around, we've hopefully developed anti-zombie implements of destruction, that bypass human flesh.

[toasty]

My country has 17 million people.

e.e

Actually both countries are about as densely populated, just fyi. But yea, I'm now in Austin, and its a "big city" by US standards, but its 4 times as large and has under one million people.

No, its not a big city. :smalltongue:

[JediSoth]

I don't necessarily mind living in a city. Goodness knows, it's convenient to everywhere I go (except work; I have to drive across town in rush hour every day).

But I do miss being able to look up at night and really see the stars. On a good night from my backyard, I can maybe see 25 - 50 stars. I miss seeing the Milky Way. The night sky, from a venue with little to no light pollution is breathtakingly hypnotic.

In the city, you look up and see a few stars. You can see the Moon, of course, and, if you're lucky, you can identify Mars, Venus, Jupiter, maybe Saturn. Away from the city, away from the light, you look up and you see the Universe.

[Erloas]

Well if we're going that way, the last metro area I lived in has about 12x the population of the entire state I live in now. And for comparison, my state is larger then a lot of other countries. In fact I just looked it up, and if it were a country it would land in 78th place in terms of area, just below Ecuador, 2 steps above the UK.

[Serpentine]

Not me personally, but New Zealand perhaps?
Allegedly there are more sheep than people in New Zealand. Considering the rapidity at which viral strains mutate and move across species, an infection - should it occur - may be disastrous.I know Australia has more sheep than people. More space to run, though, I suppose.

Cities are a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there (in the long term).
Me, I like towns. Either fairly big ones, or a small town near a fairly big one.

City pros: lots of facilities; lots of entertainment; best-ever 3am snacks in odd Chinese restaurants; wide choice of bars etc. open til really late; lots of interesting people; jobs.
City cons: lots of people; pollution; light pollution; noise; the smell; no nature; expensive, crappy housing; nowhere within walking distance; crime; concrete everywhere.

Small country town pros: low crime; low housing expense; lots of space; stars; close to nature; know everyone; quiet; safe; pleasant; nicer people; friendly; everything within walking distance.
Small country town cons: boredom; lack of facilities; lack of entertainment; potential difficulty of education; expensive groceries.

For comparison, large towns - such as Armidale - have a reasonable amount of entertainment; some light and other pollution but not as much and it's easier to get away from; some nature immediately and lots nearby; almost everything is close enough to walk to; housing is generally reasonable and you get a lot more for your money; a fair number of employment and education options; greenery; more stars than a city; enough people to be always meeting new ones but not enough that you don't know anyone; some crime but less and less serious than in other places* annnnd... stuff.


*although we did have one decapitation and a shooting in a fairly short space of time...

[Don Julio Anejo]

Guys, there's also Canada! Where cities are full of friendly, low-crime bears that eat Chinese food at 3AM after a trip to the nightclub and then go skiing, camping or kayaking with a telescope on the weekend.

[Helanna]

In the city, you look up and see a few stars. You can see the Moon, of course, and, if you're lucky, you can identify Mars, Venus, Jupiter, maybe Saturn. Away from the city, away from the light, you look up and you see the Universe.

Dammit I spent twenty minutes trying to say that earlier and you just did it in three sentences.

[Jessicat]

Guys, there's also Canada! Where cities are full of friendly, low-crime bears that eat Chinese food at 3AM after a trip to the nightclub and then go skiing, camping or kayaking with a telescope on the weekend.

Ahahaha. Too true.

I remember one COLD clear winter night a few years ago where I got to look up and see the band of the milky way shadowed in the sky. I was studying astronomy at the time, so it was an awe inspiring moment and totally took my breath away. If I wasn't such a priss, the stars would make living outside of civillisation SO worth it.


Welcome to the forums, Jessicat.

I like being Australian, we have a nice mix of the country and the city within suburbia.

Thank you! And I find I am rather jealous of your Aussieness. It's the next place I plan to invade and I might just stay there. <.<... I grew up in the UK and moved to Canada and my mixed up accent makes everyone think i'm Australian. I wish...


That is a wonderful avatar.

Thank you. ^^ *purrs*

[Yrcrazypa]

I personally do not like cities at all. Having lived in a suburb, a city, and out in the country, I much prefer the country. It's quieter, less oppressive, and if I want to go to a city, I can just visit. Living out in the middle of nowhere is very relaxing, but this is coming from someone who can't stand crowds. I just don't like them, they are too impersonal. If I'm going to be around people for long periods of time, I would rather know them well, not just as "That guy who always eats a cheeseburger at 12:00 AM at Wendy's."

[Xyk]

OI! I already dropped that reference! :smallmad:

Oh good! I agree with you. Like I said, I didn't read the whole thread. :smallbiggrin: