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nolispe
2010-10-11, 03:40 AM
In a recent campaign (3.5) that I have been running recently, a problem has popped up. One player, and one player only, is consistently pulling tricks out of his hat when problems arise, from flour bombs to breathing tubes to deadfalls. This is getting to the point where he is sidelining the other players. Now, this is normally the kind of creativity that I would want to encourage, but it is certainly making the game almost unfun for the other players. What doe sthe playgorund suggest?

Shinizak
2010-10-11, 03:51 AM
Wow, that's a first. a player who won't STOP RPing...

a person like that is probably mature enough that he can handle you telling him that he needs to let the others have some fun. Also, after he describes some super amazing plan, pause before it's execution, look to the next player and say "how do you do improve this plan?" Don't let anyone interject until he/she's finished, then go to the next person and so on. Once they've all said how they're going to build off the plan, execute it. In the heat of battle a person who sees their ally doing something only has enough time and information to act instantly trying to help their ally, often with nothing but a few words of instruction.

Myth
2010-10-11, 04:00 AM
DMS have a rarely used SLA - Power Word: No. Time to cast it.

Rasman
2010-10-11, 04:08 AM
Hi, I'm Rasman and I have a Problem.

:smallbiggrin:

There's step one.

lol...all players, especially when they REALLY get into a character, tend to do this at some point. In an effort to try and get other players more into the RP, a Strong, Overbearing, and PC Superstar Hating NPC is sometimes needed. This is a tactic one of my DMs has used, he actually took the party wizard, who is a Munchkin and has been playing since 2nd edition, and made him draw boxes because his brown nosing of the NPC pissed the NPC off, he then started making Origami boxes out of the paper, but that's beside the point. Use creative devices in game, rather than out in order to involve your other players. Traps that involve Silence being cast on the PC in question would force your other players to speak up simply because they can't talk. I was recently forced to remain in a meditative state because I was preparing spells during a new player introduction. Be creative, but don't completely curb creativity of the player in question. Encourage it, but create situations where your other players can shine as well.

Reluctance
2010-10-11, 04:23 AM
If his suggestions are overly detailed, implement a table rule. Any combat round that takes more than one minute is spent doing nothing. Any plan that takes longer than a minute or two to explain is tabled until there's significant downtime.

If the player constantly sidelines the other players, you handle it no differently than you would a loud personality in any other group. In combat, encourage people to act quickly and keep quiet when it's not their turn. Out of combat, allow him his exuberance, but encourage other people to pipe up as well. (Ideally, you'll talk with him out of game, and get him to elicit ideas from the other players. It's really cool when you can get the players to engage each other like that.) If he keeps demanding your attention solo, DM as MC is one of the important roles you have to learn.

Psyx
2010-10-11, 04:30 AM
Firstly; if a creative player is your biggest problem, then you are a very lucky GM.

Secondly; don't stifle it, but make sure that it fits with the character/rule-set. Is the character 'inventing' things that didn't exist? Does the character have a good Int and enough ranks in disable device (which is a good gauge of mechanical skill), craft (trap) or craft (whatever) to come up with these ideas. If not, then it should be politely pointed out that the player is using OOC knowledge.

Thirdly; Any plan taking longer than 5 seconds to think of, discuss, or implement has no place in combat rounds. Don't let huge plans compromise the action.

Godless_Paladin
2010-10-11, 04:35 AM
Wow, that's a first. a player who won't STOP RPing...

a person like that is probably mature enough that he can handle you telling him that he needs to let the others have some fun. Also, after he describes some super amazing plan, pause before it's execution, look to the next player and say "how do you do improve this plan?" Don't let anyone interject until he/she's finished, then go to the next person and so on. Once they've all said how they're going to build off the plan, execute it. In the heat of battle a person who sees their ally doing something only has enough time and information to act instantly trying to help their ally, often with nothing but a few words of instruction.

Encouraging the other players to add and cultivate their own creativity. Good advice, and something that has worked well for me in the past when dealing with less initially capable players. Devise situations that force your less creative players to think outside their little boxes, just like a video game designer can create levels that train players to learn new skills and behaviors (For example, pretty much the entire game of Portal is a training exercise, and that's very intentional, right down to the slogan "start thinking with portals"). Also, encourage the more capable player to coach the others or help them understand the options available to them.

Done right, soon enough simple concepts like flour bombs, deadfalls, and breathing tubes will be the baseline for player creativity in your games, not an unmanageable height.


DMS have a rarely used SLA - Power Word: No. Time to cast it.

Arbitrarily punishing a player for being creative. This is very bad advice.

FelixG
2010-10-11, 04:43 AM
DMS have a rarely used SLA - Power Word: No. Time to cast it.

This is probably the worst advise here.

Clever players are good...but how exactly is he side lining the other players?

Come up with clever ways to negate non combat spells? THere are tons of things casters can do thats non combat that cant be solved with an invention.

Making the rogue feel useless? most people can do that with rocks or a 10 foot poll.

Need more info on whats being done :D

One thing might to be to encourage the rest of the group to put their thinking caps on.

DragonOfUndeath
2010-10-11, 04:51 AM
Making the rogue feel useless? most people can do that with rocks or a 10 foot poll.

now i want too got my DM to let me take weapon specialization: 10-Foot Poles to annoy the party rogue :smallbiggrin:

@V: but hitting things with 10 foot poles is fun

khylis
2010-10-11, 05:05 AM
There is absolutely nothing wrong with clever plans, however; you as a DM should also have back-up clever plans to counter those, even if you invent them on the spur of the moment - don't punish him too hard for roleplaying, but if it's ridiculous, make sure that there are consequences, after all, there isn't a character that is universally suited to deal with all situations.

Advice? make varied encounters, make intelligent, conniving villains to go along with the brutish bashers :smallsmile:

(just make sure you don't ostracise him for thinking and plotting, a smart PC who thinks things through and roleplays is worth much more than a couple of slayers that solve every single problem by smacking it repeatedly with a 10 foot pole)

AslanCross
2010-10-11, 07:11 AM
Firstly; if a creative player is your biggest problem, then you are a very lucky GM.

Secondly; don't stifle it, but make sure that it fits with the character/rule-set. Is the character 'inventing' things that didn't exist? Does the character have a good Int and enough ranks in disable device (which is a good gauge of mechanical skill), craft (trap) or craft (whatever) to come up with these ideas. If not, then it should be politely pointed out that the player is using OOC knowledge.

Thirdly; Any plan taking longer than 5 seconds to think of, discuss, or implement has no place in combat rounds. Don't let huge plans compromise the action.

I echo every single idea here. I often find it rather frustrating that my players automatically default to "kill them all and figure it out from there." :P

I once had the dwarf crusader in my party use a propped-up hobgoblin corpse and a bluff check in Goblin (spoken in a thick Dwarven accent) to wave off suspicious guards. It worked. For a while.

Just because the things players do work doesn't mean they'll work all the time, or work flawlessly. Rewarding creativity doesn't mean your well-laid plans get blown into smithereens.

Tyndmyr
2010-10-11, 07:54 AM
DMS have a rarely used SLA - Power Word: No. Time to cast it.

Yeah, don't do this.

I've actually used all of these in the past. Deadfalls, breathing tubes? These date back to ridiculously early times, and are entirely appropriate for any era. Flour bombs are viable any time in or after the roman era, as that's when it became rather well known that flour can do such things. There's also precedent for all these things in fantasy novels.

Creativity is an excellent trait in players, and rather than stifling whoever uses it, reward and encourage it. Make sure others feel like they are welcome to give input, and limit in combat communication to a reasonable amount, it enhances realism and prevents instructions from getting too detailed. Ideally, you want to encourage more players to be like this one.

kestrel404
2010-10-11, 12:18 PM
My advice: Cultivate them. They'll probably make a decent GM sometime soon. Talk to them about involving the other players in their plans, get them to plot and scheme with the other PCs, get them thinking about ways to involve the entire party in their creativity.

At the moment, I've got a very creative, resourceful, and outspoken character in a game I'm playing. He also has a magic item that gives him the ability to polymorph into any creature he's killed at will (for an XP cost). I can use this power to solve ANY PROBLEM the GM throws at me. I did this for two game sessions (usually going out of my way to get INTO dangerous situations, often alone), and then stopped. Because I realized that I was hogging the game and it wasn't nearly as fun for everyone else. Since then I've been involving the other PCs in the stuff I'm pulling.

For example, I'm currently buying training from an NPC. Since we're in the middle of a long journey together, he offered to let me pay in trade (since I can't exactly go out and get currency to pay him while in the middle of the forest). So I considder my friends - one of the PCs is really good at jewelry craft, and another one is a part time enchanter. I happen to have the raw materials handy for them to craft some really nice equipment, and I pay them with the stuff that's left over after the crafting.

So now, my character may have spent a bit more of his personal wealth than absolutely necessary (not like I payed for it, I'm the party rogue) but I also involved the other PCs, and I empowered a friendly NPC with a fairly powerful magic doohickey (the GM is still figuring out what it should do, as the crafting rules in Earthdawn are more story based than crunch based).

So yeah, talk to the player. See if he's willing to come up with creative solutions that involves the other PCs. If you can teach the PCs to regularly rely on each other strengths while doing things other than combat and dungeon crawling you'll be making the game a whole lot more fun and engrossing for everyone!

Valameer
2010-10-11, 12:27 PM
kestrel404 just basically swordsage'd me, so... just go back up and read what he had to say again :smallsmile:

Good advice!

Zeofar
2010-10-11, 12:42 PM
I can't believe this is looking like a bad thing to you; all of the “tricks” described are pretty standard and, at the very least, are probably making the game a bit more fun in other ways. If the other players really can't come up with anything and feel overshadowed, leave easy-to-miss holes in your situations that your players are in and assign them DC's based on their efficacy and obviousness. The other players can make Int checks or Wis checks to “discover” these solutions. Rule that the clever player can't usually do this, because he doesn't need any help being awesome.

If you can't think of anything and he has a solution, and/or the uber-player comes up with something incredibly better, roll a d(# of players -1) and assign everyone except him a numeric value. The winner(s, if you feel like stacking the odds against him) does an opposed Int or Wis check against him. Whoever wins comes up with the idea first. If the clever guy usually wins, he deserved it IC and it is really rather fair that his character comes up with everything first.

Now, you would probably only have to do the second part if things are really, really bad. If they aren't, you should follow the other advice that is in this thread. Encourage your players to think smarter, and have the guy help you while you're at it. Pointing out solutions with checks like that may indeed help shock your players out of linear thinking, and eventually they'll be relying on themselves as much as on those checks. Do away with it once they other players are consistently coming up with better ideas without the checks. He'll probably enjoy the fact that other people also have ideas, anyways.

Christopher K.
2010-10-11, 01:05 PM
My vote is to give them a new car for their efforts.

Also, you really just want to keep encouraging the other players to add on to his plans. I suggest doing that by providing THEM with extra tools to go about the problem that they can suggest uses of to this creative player, and then everybody gets a certain amount of contribution towards the plan as a whole.

arrowhen
2010-10-11, 01:07 PM
Instead of smacking down the one player who contributes the most, why not encourage the others to step up their game?

Skaven
2010-10-11, 01:49 PM
Introduce challenged designed for the other party members class abilities to encourage them to take the forefront.

Zeofar
2010-10-11, 01:54 PM
Introduce challenged designed for the other party members class abilities to encourage them to take the forefront.

...and then he comes up with a plan that not only uses their class abilities, but makes them far, far better for it. This isn't an issue of "character does everything," but "player beats everything."

Alternatively, he still eclipses them by using his own character and ideas.

ericgrau
2010-10-11, 02:07 PM
Dunno how to fix this or if you even should, but 3 rules on creative solutions:

If it's simple and mild it probably works. Flour bombs are a classic way to stop invisibility.
If it's "scientific" or complicated it probably doesn't work. Meta-gaming aside, most people IRL don't actually know how these things work and 99% of such ideas I see posted would in fact be a spectacular failure. Even if you don't know why it's doomed to failure, you can simply say "You don't know how to do that correctly."
Even if it does work there are often ways around it. For example allow a high DC spot check to see the breathing tubes (and no it isn't opposed by hide, that's another check for a person with cover or concealment*). As a rule of thumb DC 20-30 is "very difficult" as it is virtually impossible for a commoner or you and me. DC 20 if we have a minuscule chance, more if not. But anyone with special training may have a much easier time and, hurrah, the clever idea now has a chance of failure.

* Side note: a water surface gives improved cover: +8 AC, +4 to reflex saves, +10 to hide. There are also special rules for fire spells.

Tyndmyr
2010-10-11, 02:15 PM
If it's "scientific" or complicated it probably doesn't work. Meta-gaming aside, most people IRL don't actually know how these things work and 99% of such ideas I see posted would in fact be a spectacular failure. Even if you don't know why it's doomed to failure, you can simply say "You don't know how to do that correctly."

This answer usually results in me conducting an impromptu demonstration. Flour bombs? Easy. Impromptu magnetic linear accelerator? Done it. Our last game had us playing with swords, magnets and LEDs. I heartily endorse having your players demonstrate these wild and creative plans.

BRC
2010-10-11, 02:30 PM
Encourage them to make plans that have room for the rest of the party. Are we talking about the player having a few good tricks they use over and over again, or are we talking about some sort of tabletop macguyver who is simply brilliant at using whatever they have, though I'm personally having trouble seeing how they can solo encounters with flour bombs and breathing tubes. Those sound like good ways to counter specific parts of encounters (Like an enemy's invisibility), but those hardly win the encounter by themselves.

If the first, have a few encounters their regular tricks won't work on. Get him used to needing to include the rest of the party in his plans, then when you go back to regular encounters, he will already be thinking in terms of using the entire group rather than handling things himself.

Challenge him at every turn. Make his character roll checks for anything that he could possibly fail at, even if he makes every check, the fact that you are rolling them means that there are lots of places for his plans to go wrong.

It's hard to give advice when all we know he's used are Flour Bombs (Useless except against invisibility), breathing tubes (Situational), and Deadfalls (Take significant preparation)

ericgrau
2010-10-11, 02:46 PM
This answer usually results in me conducting an impromptu demonstration. Flour bombs? Easy. Impromptu magnetic linear accelerator? Done it. Our last game had us playing with swords, magnets and LEDs. I heartily endorse having your players demonstrate these wild and creative plans.
I'd be curious to hear an example or two, like the magnetic linear accelerator. Though that one in particular sounds like meta-gaming knowledge even if it works. Flour bombs are a-ok like I said already.

Arbane
2010-10-11, 02:57 PM
Well, there's two obvious approaches.

1: Dungeonmaster CRUSH puny player!
This is the BAD approach.

2: Up your game.
A better approach: Make more encounters that are big and tough enough that this guy's clever tricks will be helpful in solving them, but not _sufficient_. The other PCs will still have to show their stuff.

BoutsofInsanity
2010-10-11, 08:32 PM
This is a great thread.
My friend had a player who is a nurse in real life and would ask for a bunch of mundane items and plants at the start of the game. Later a situation would come up and the player would say "i combine x with y with z" and presto knockout gas or somthing. Just follow the advice above and give a chance of failure.

WarKitty
2010-10-11, 09:19 PM
To be fair I've gamed with this type of player. It really is no fun. There is such a thing as "too much roleplaying." In my experience one really great roleplayer can discourage everyone else from roleplaying, because he's solved things/moved things along before they can think up a reply. Ask him to step aside and let the other players solve things for a bit, or put in encounters that he can't solve completely.

PlzBreakMyCmpAn
2010-10-12, 09:04 PM
I'll just say it.

Demand he stop RPing and without LA or BL be a single-classed sorc with VoP. Now he can optimize all he wants and you know what his tricks are. Oh, and he'll still be more useful than all the non-casters.

WarKitty
2010-10-12, 09:06 PM
I'll just say it.

Demand he stop RPing and without LA or BL be a single-classed sorc with VoP. Now he can optimize all he wants and you know what his tricks are. Oh, and he'll still be more useful than all the non-casters.

I didn't see any mention of optimization in the op?

Godless_Paladin
2010-10-12, 09:41 PM
I didn't see any mention of optimization in the op?

Yes you did. The only part where the previous poster got confused is the lack of build optimization mentioned. :smallwink:

Tactics and creativity is a very large part of optimization. Arguably, the most important component.

WarKitty
2010-10-12, 09:47 PM
Yes you did. The only part where the previous poster got confused is the lack of build optimization mentioned. :smallwink:

Tactics and creativity is a very large part of optimization. Arguably, the most important component.

Ok not the type PlzBreakMyCmpAn was referring to. :smallyuk:

In all seriousness - it's the same rule, don't out-optimize your friends as a player.

Godless_Paladin
2010-10-12, 11:49 PM
Ok not the type PlzBreakMyCmpAn was referring to. :smallyuk:

In all seriousness - it's the same rule, don't out-optimize your friends as a player.

Eh, I tend to make my friends better optimizers (or at least, those who aren't already just as adept at optimizing as I am, which is a good number of them). Same thing when I DM. As mentioned earlier, I like to train newer players to think outside the box to solve problems.

And the fun part is... they do. You just have to teach them to Cut The Knot rather than untying it. Present them with challenges that they can't handle by using their usual strategies, and subtly and gradually guide and cultivate their progress.

Scow2
2010-10-13, 12:03 AM
What he's describing isn't Role-Playing... it's Problem/Puzzle Solving.

A role-player would think in terms of "Is my character smart enough to come up with these plans?"

Godless_Paladin
2010-10-13, 01:01 PM
I cannot emphasize enough that the answer is not to tell your creative player to shut up and sit down. You have a choice between smashing people down to the lowest common denominator, or raising people up towards the highest. You can help out your other players. You can get your creative player to help out your other players. There are any number of ways you can do this.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0478.html

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/images/0JKpY4iz5JIjBF7pbge.gif

You can totally create situations like this. I do it all the time as a DM.

Kaww
2010-10-13, 01:53 PM
I'd just approach him, out of game and tell him that he may want to tone it down a bit. Ask him to give the others some time to think of ideas and ways out of certain situations. If they are in desperate need of a quick solution, don't come up with anything or, even worse, if they have suicidal ideas he may intervene...

This is how I roll as a player. I follow other people's plans until suicidal: Party rogue suggested that we go in through the only entrance in a warehouse (in which are 10 rogues of which we knew + X of which we didn't know). My bard soloed this dungeon. I said give me 10 minutes, then go in and rescue me...

BRC
2010-10-13, 02:08 PM
Ok not the type PlzBreakMyCmpAn was referring to. :smallyuk:

In all seriousness - it's the same rule, don't out-optimize your friends as a player.
Not necessarily, the rule is "Don't make your friends feel irrelevant as a player". Now, since most optimization focuses on making the optimized character as powerful as possible, "out-optimizing" and "making irrelevant" are usually synonymous. However, theoretically, you could optimize a buffer or support character, and it wouldn't be a big problem because your party is still having fun doing things, you're just helping them do those things better.

Now with Tactical Optimization, instead of character optimization, it's alot easier to optimize without making your team feel useless. You simply include your teammates in your plans. When the Wizard SoD's that dragon whose health you've almost finished off, you feel like everything you did was irrelevant. When the wizard makes the ceiling collapse, pinning that dragon's wings to the ground with rocks, allowing you to introduce it's brain to your greatsword, you feel awesome.

WarKitty
2010-10-13, 02:10 PM
Not necessarily, the rule is "Don't make your friends feel irrelevant as a player". Now, since most optimization focuses on making the optimized character as powerful as possible, "out-optimizing" and "making irrelevant" are usually synonymous. However, theoretically, you could optimize a buffer or support character, and it wouldn't be a big problem because your party is still having fun doing things, you're just helping them do those things better.

Now with Tactical Optimization, instead of character optimization, it's alot easier to optimize without making your team feel useless. You simply include your teammates in your plans. When the Wizard SoD's that dragon whose health you've almost finished off, you feel like everything you did was irrelevant. When the wizard makes the ceiling collapse, pinning that dragon's wings to the ground with rocks, allowing you to introduce it's brain to your greatsword, you feel awesome.

Depends a bit. In this case, I'd suggest the player IC turn to another player and ask "So, how would you approach this" or something?

BRC
2010-10-13, 02:18 PM
Depends a bit. In this case, I'd suggest the player IC turn to another player and ask "So, how would you approach this" or something?
Well, it kind of depends on the specific problem. The impression I got was that the other players were upset because Macguyver was coming up with tricks that handled the encounters without any help, in which case having the plans be based around the entire team would fix the problem.
If the problem is one player always coming up with the plans and the rest of the group not liking being bossed around, it's a different situation altogether.

WarKitty
2010-10-13, 02:25 PM
Well, it kind of depends on the specific problem. The impression I got was that the other players were upset because Macguyver was coming up with tricks that handled the encounters without any help, in which case having the plans be based around the entire team would fix the problem.
If the problem is one player always coming up with the plans and the rest of the group not liking being bossed around, it's a different situation altogether.

Could be. I have a feeling having one player always come up with the plans would tend to annoy the group after a while.

RickGriffin
2010-10-13, 02:31 PM
Uh, nobody seems to be able to agree on what exactly the problem is, can we get some clarification?

cattoy
2010-10-13, 03:08 PM
Out clever them.

The next time they try to use a flour bomb to detect invisible creatures, have the flour detonate, reducing everyone to a handful of HP.

Flour, dispersed in the air is highly explosive. It causes nearly empty grain silos to explode from time to time.

from Wikipedia:
Given a large enough suspension of combustible flour or grain dust in the air, a significant explosion can occur. A famous historical example of the destructive power of grain explosions is the 1878 explosion of the Washburn "A" Mill in Minneapolis, Minnesota, which killed eighteen, leveled two nearby mills, damaged many others and caused a destructive fire that gutted much of the nearby milling district. (The Washburn "A" mill was later rebuilt and continued to be used until it was shut down in 1965.) Another example occurred in 1998, when the DeBruce grain elevator in Wichita, Kansas exploded and killed seven people.[21]

Almost any finely-divided organic substance becomes an explosive material when dispersed as an air suspension; hence, a very fine flour is dangerously explosive in air suspension. This poses a significant risk when milling grain to produce flour, so mills go to great lengths to remove sources of sparks. These measures include carefully sifting the grain before it is milled or ground to remove stones which could strike sparks from the millstones, and the use of magnets to remove metallic debris able to strike sparks.

The earliest recorded flour explosion took place in an Italian mill in 1785, but there have been many since. The following two references give numbers of recorded flour and dust explosions in the USA in 1994[22] and 1997.[23] In the ten year period up to and including 1997, there were 129 explosions.

Psyx
2010-10-14, 05:05 AM
To be fair I've gamed with this type of player. It really is no fun. There is such a thing as "too much roleplaying."

This isn't roleplaying though. It's being very good at lateral thinking and problem solving. It's fairly close to how I play sometimes, and why I make sure I buy the game-equivalents of some basic mechanical skill and a bunch of any 'tactics' skill there is. If he was being a good roleplayer, he probably wouldn't have come up with half of the ideas that he has.

A clever player means you have to be a clever GM. Smacking down a player for being resourceful is akin to a schoolteacher punishing a child for finishing their work by half-way through class.

Shademan
2010-10-14, 05:43 AM
Uh, nobody seems to be able to agree on what exactly the problem is, can we get some clarification?

I second this.
flour bombs and breathing tubes is upstaging the others how?

WarKitty
2010-10-14, 08:51 AM
This isn't roleplaying though. It's being very good at lateral thinking and problem solving. It's fairly close to how I play sometimes, and why I make sure I buy the game-equivalents of some basic mechanical skill and a bunch of any 'tactics' skill there is. If he was being a good roleplayer, he probably wouldn't have come up with half of the ideas that he has.

A clever player means you have to be a clever GM. Smacking down a player for being resourceful is akin to a schoolteacher punishing a child for finishing their work by half-way through class.

No, it's akin to asking a child to not answer every question before his peers get a chance. It's no fun sitting there with someone who solves every encounter, no matter how they do it. Most players want a chance to solve things themselves, and not everyone can come up with things like that on the spot.

DwarfFighter
2010-10-14, 09:47 AM
Lateral thinking and problem solving is all great and should generally be rewarded. It doesn't always have to work though. Just because the player thinks that the tripwire ambush is a good idea it doesn't automatically follow that his character is capable of pulling this off:


The idea is simple: one character attracts the attention of the two Orc guards. They chase him down the corridor and into the next room. Here the other two characters lie in wait with a rope, preparing to trip the orcs as they come running.

This is a classic that you can seed with any number of skill and attribute checks and adjudicate the result. It doesn't have to fail, but you can at least set these kind of antics into their proper context.

For example:


Attract the attention of the Orc Guards: Automatic.
Trick them into pursuit: A Bluff test (DC 15). If this fails the Orcs sound the alarm first and pursue with caution.
Running down the corridor: Automatic, or an Int check (DC 10) to time the sprint properly. Failure means the Orcs fall to far behind and grow cautions as they approach.
A spot check by the Orcs (DC 15) to spot the rope. Add a +2 bonus if they've have reason to be cautious. If they succeed they trick fails.
An opposed Strength check by the stronger of the waiting characters and an Aid Another by the other against the Orcs (the Orcs get a +2 becuase the). If the PCs win they get a surprise round and the Orcs start the encounter prone in the squares just inside the room. Otherwise the encounter starts normally.


-DF

Damascus
2010-10-14, 12:04 PM
From one DM to another, the only solution (and it might not be the best choice, mind you) is to make things for him a bit more difficult. Don't be a douche; that's not what I mean. If he's really good at RP'ing out something, put a challenge in front of him. Make twists to your game. As the DM, it's your job to keep the other players involved as well, so whatever he does, include the other people in it as well. "It's too heavy to lift alone, etc. etc." That will make them have to decide "Do I want to help him or not?" Also, keep in mind what's realistic and what isn't... if he doesn't have the supplies for something, it doesn't happen.