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View Full Version : [3.5e] Gishing For the Sake of it



Kairyu
2010-10-11, 07:58 AM
So I was bored, and looking up possible class combinations to make the Mystic Theurge prestige class a little more potent (I have as of yet failed to find one I like), and while looking, I came across I nice cross-class combination I might have to try at some point: Duskblade/Favoured Soul. Though I guess Cleric, Druid, or whatever could fill the divine casting side of that one, I went with Favoured Soul for the spontanious casting and the very nice saves. I got up to Duskblade5/FavouredSoul4 with my assessment (you'll notice those are the minimum required levels for Mystic Theurge, but the prestige doesn't matter for this).

They both have the same HD, so you're not really losing anything there, and as I said the FS (gonna refer to it in shorthand from this point) has very, very nice saves - not that Duskblade's aren't nice either. You get two spell lists, a divine one that will let you buff and maintain yourself to buggery-and-back, and a more limited arcane one that will suppliment your melee attacks and make you hit just that bit harder. Your BAB will suffer slightly against a pure Duskblade, but with the magical arsenal at your disposal that shouldn't even be a mild inconvenience to you. On top of which - I read and re-read the class descriptions carefully to ensure this - the Duskblade's arcane channeling ability is not exclusive to either arcane spells, or the Duskblade's own list, so you can cast all your FS touch spells in the same manner. Finally, the Inflict spells have a use! Or, if you want to be funny:

"Be healed! *bonk*"

There's a little more to develop on... for one thing, you'd be casting from two stats (Int for Duskblade and Cha for FS), but you only need a maximum of 15 for the Duskblade's list, and you're not going to hit Lv9 spells with FS unless you go epic... in case you hadn't noticed, this is a melee class; the casting is there to suppliment your power. And even if you did want casting potency, there's the Practiced Spellcaster feat.

I guess the major issue with the cross-class combination is role-play. Divine casting classes tend to be very involved, and the Favoured Soul is one of the worst for this...

kladams707
2010-10-11, 08:11 AM
You just had to make me imagine a duskblade/druid/arcane hierophant (RotW) didn't you?

Kairyu
2010-10-11, 08:13 AM
You just had to make me imagine a duskblade/druid/arcane hierophant (RotW) didn't you?

Oooh, now that's another good one!

...also, a friend just noted to me "Why not just play a Cleric?". I can kind of see his point there.

kladams707
2010-10-11, 08:57 AM
As do I, but some players feel the need to challenge themselves every once in awhile.

ErrantX
2010-10-11, 09:15 AM
Good catch here, very neat ideas.

-X

true_shinken
2010-10-11, 01:33 PM
I like this idea, I really do.
Maybe Archivist would work better? They are Int-based, after all.
Shame it's not spontaneous, though.
...also, I just have to mention Mystic Ranger again.

Kairyu
2010-10-11, 04:23 PM
I like this idea, I really do.
Maybe Archivist would work better? They are Int-based, after all.
Shame it's not spontaneous, though.
...also, I just have to mention Mystic Ranger again.

Sounds nice, but Archivist would lose you a good deal of the melee power. It'd work if you had the physical stats to back it up and the skill to buff yourself well enough, but it'd be a risk more than anything else.

Noble Savant
2010-10-11, 04:28 PM
Archivist might be able to bump up the melee side of things nicely, if you do it correctly. Dark Knowledge and Knowledge Devotion from Complete Divine synchronize together very well, and work with the flavor. If you pump up your knowledge checks, you could get some potent melee power.

Dark_Nohn
2010-10-11, 04:33 PM
Sounds nice, but Archivist would lose you a good deal of the melee power. It'd work if you had the physical stats to back it up and the skill to buff yourself well enough, but it'd be a risk more than anything else.

Not TOO much; the difference in BaB at level 5 of Archivist and Cleric is 1 BaB, but you get those lovely dark knowledges

Kairyu
2010-10-11, 05:15 PM
Archivist might be able to bump up the melee side of things nicely, if you do it correctly. Dark Knowledge and Knowledge Devotion from Complete Divine synchronize together very well, and work with the flavor. If you pump up your knowledge checks, you could get some potent melee power.

Yanno, it'd even be the easiest to role-play. Some people become Archivists just for the sake of knowing the spells, so... yeah. Hm. Yanno, it's not that bad an idea now that I think on it.

Gauntlet
2010-10-11, 05:18 PM
What does it matter if you lose a point of BaB? Give it a few levels and you'll be Divine Power/Righteous Mighting it up anyway.

BenTheJester
2010-10-11, 08:30 PM
The thing is, Duskblade spellcasting is bad(except for the high number of spell slots), so taking mystic theurge to progress it is kind of a waste, you're better off with Dusk 3/FS x.

It's even more true with the Duskblade/Druid mix, since Druids lose 2 levels of wildshape in addition to spells.

Amphetryon
2010-10-11, 10:55 PM
The thing is, Duskblade spellcasting is bad(except for the high number of spell slots), so taking mystic theurge to progress it is kind of a waste, you're better off with Dusk 3/FS x.

It's even more true with the Duskblade/Druid mix, since Druids lose 2 levels of wildshape in addition to spells.

If you're using Duskblade as part of a Mystic Theurge gish, then the quality of the spells is secondary to their ability to be channeled; Duskblade excels for that purpose.

Coidzor
2010-10-12, 12:38 AM
The chief disadvantage being that duskblade casting is bad aside from the numbers, especially if you're not getting full attack arcane channeling from Duskblade 13.

Might be better to dip Duskblade until Arcane Channeling and then move on from there to another arcane class to dual progress with, especially with something like a ring of wizardry to keep the number of spells for channeling up.

Zaq
2010-10-12, 12:39 AM
I guess the major issue with the cross-class combination is role-play. Divine casting classes tend to be very involved, and the Favoured Soul is one of the worst for this...

I disagree. I'd say that the Favored Soul is the easiest to roleplay in this case.

Remember, the Cleric chooses his god, but the god chooses his Favored Soul.

WinWin
2010-10-12, 12:50 AM
Couple of ideas that may or may not relate to your gish idea.

Duskblade/Wizard/Ultimate magus

Archivist/Erudite (Spell to power)/Psychic Theurge

BenTheJester
2010-10-12, 05:45 PM
If you're using Duskblade as part of a Mystic Theurge gish, then the quality of the spells is secondary to their ability to be channeled; Duskblade excels for that purpose.

If you re-read my post, you'll find that I suggested Duskblade 3.

When I talk of "lost level", I mean the 4th and 5th duskblade levels required for the Theurge classes.

Kairyu
2010-10-12, 08:02 PM
Erm, y'all may want to remember that I actually said I wasn't going with Mystic Theurge. I was looking for combos to go into it when I came across this class combo, but I don't intend to prestige them. Not into MT anyway.