fil kearney
2010-10-12, 03:32 PM
This topic is inspired by Tatsel_Ganav in his houserule thread located HERE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9352424#post9352424).
His thoughts on the subject was as such:
Weapons: Add a Speed rating to each weapon. The Speed rating determines the iterative attack penalty with that weapon. This carries with it a number of other potential changes, but that's the basis. If you're one of my players or close associates, you know what I'm talking about here. The following table explains the iterative penalty. No magic items or spells will affect weapon Speed, at all, ever, period. One feat will, and a mithral weapon will have Speed +1. Two-Weapon Fighting will also interact with weapon speed.
{table=head]Speed|Penalty
2|-10
3|-7
4|-5
5|-4
6|-3[/table][/QUOTE]
the Everquest RPG used this system... It works very similarly..
2 = very slow = -10
3 = slow = -7
4 = average = -5
5 = fast = -4
6 = very fast = -3
AFB... I'll need to see if EQ has different penalties... but this looks right.
the gist is... BAB iterative attacks depend on the difference of base bab and the weapon's penalty.
Fighter 20 has bab of 20....
very slow: +20/+10
slow: +20/+13/+6
average: +20/+15/+10/+5 <-- dnd standard!
fast: +20/+16/+12/+8/+4
very fast: +20/+17/+14/+11/+8/+5/+2
There were a lot of "holes" in the system, like size changes, wielding multiple weapons... here's some spackle to make it usable:
-- 2 weapon fighting defaults to the slowest weapon used... and then degrades a level.... so longsword(average)/shortsword(fast) defaults to the longswords's speed of average then is penalized to slow. (all very slow weapons are already 2 handed, and thus cannot contradict this progression)
so the longsword/shortsword in fighter20's hands is
longsword: +20/+13/+6
shortsword: +20/+13/+6
The shortsword alone would have granted 5 attacks..
+20/+16/+12/+8/+4
... the real bonus here is that the actual attacks are all at higher to hit+.. may be worth it. :)
--any fast or very fast weapon can use weapon finesse-- but if 2 weapon fighting.. BOTH weapons must be fast or very fast to retain weapon finesse... even if they degrade to average speed.. for example: a short sword (fast) can benefit from weapon finesse. if fighting with 2 of them; the speed degrades to average... but since both weapons are fast alone; the finesse benefit may still apply.
--damage scales differently for weapons... it was something like;
very slow: like d12-3d6
slow: like 2d6-2d8
average: like 2d4-d12
fast: like d6-d8
very fast: d3-d4
this was a balance for the very slow weapons being a single attack / round weapon until level 11. it doesn't hit often.. but when it does, it HURTS.
--size changes: there's two dynamics at work.. the size of the weapon, and the size of the wielder. the speed changes with the relationship between these two factors...
for example:
a medium sized long sword isd8 damage.
give it to a tiny creature, it becomes very slow, requiring 2 hands
give it to a small creature, it becomes slow
to a medium sized creature, it is average as it should be.
give it to a large creature, it becomes fast
give it to a huge creature, it becomes very fast
a small sized long sword is average speed deals d6 damage.
give it to a diminitive creature, it becomes very slow, requiring 2 hands
give it to a tiny creature, it becomes slow
to a small sized creature, it is average as it should be.
give it to a medium creature, it becomes fast
give it to a large creature, it becomes very fast
--if a weapon does not require 2 hands but you choose to do so; it will improve weapon speed 1 step... very fast weapons cannot benefit from this. In addition; average and slow weapons may gain the 1.5xstrength as well... but fast and very fast weapons do not gain extra strength damage... when this tactic is used, weapon finesse may apply to the weapon while wielded 2 handed... thus, a longsword (average) wielded 2 handed gains the benefit of 1.5 strength to gamage, becomes (fast) and can use weapon finesse.
--haste spells in EQ were very complex, depending on the level of caster.
{table=head]level|effect
5-8 | improve speed by 1 (max is (very fast))
9-12|speed remains the same: 1 extra attack at top BAB
13-16|improve speed by 1: 1 extra attack at top BAB
17-20|improve speed by 2 (max is (very fast))
21-24|improve speed by 2: 1 extra attack at top BAB
25-28|improve speed by 2: 2 extra attack at top BAB
29+|improve speed by 3 (max is (very fast)): 2 extra attack at top BAB
[/table]
this was a lot of trouble! best to leave haste as is for DnD...
--weapon speed enhancement property improves speed 1 step for every +1 added to the weapon... a 2 handed sword of speed +4 would be a very fast weapon still wielded with 2 hands (the exception to the 1.5 strength/very fast paradox) THIS is a better solution to the clumsy haste above... it could also be a feat or a class feature at level 7 and 13; to improve all relative weapon speeds... it would be a pretty obvious "gotta have it" feat... and pretty sweet for 7th and 13th level fighters to get their sword and board up to very fast speed with an average weapon, or to average speed with a massive fullblade.
feedback always appreciated... this is simply here for reference sake, if anyone likes it.
His thoughts on the subject was as such:
Weapons: Add a Speed rating to each weapon. The Speed rating determines the iterative attack penalty with that weapon. This carries with it a number of other potential changes, but that's the basis. If you're one of my players or close associates, you know what I'm talking about here. The following table explains the iterative penalty. No magic items or spells will affect weapon Speed, at all, ever, period. One feat will, and a mithral weapon will have Speed +1. Two-Weapon Fighting will also interact with weapon speed.
{table=head]Speed|Penalty
2|-10
3|-7
4|-5
5|-4
6|-3[/table][/QUOTE]
the Everquest RPG used this system... It works very similarly..
2 = very slow = -10
3 = slow = -7
4 = average = -5
5 = fast = -4
6 = very fast = -3
AFB... I'll need to see if EQ has different penalties... but this looks right.
the gist is... BAB iterative attacks depend on the difference of base bab and the weapon's penalty.
Fighter 20 has bab of 20....
very slow: +20/+10
slow: +20/+13/+6
average: +20/+15/+10/+5 <-- dnd standard!
fast: +20/+16/+12/+8/+4
very fast: +20/+17/+14/+11/+8/+5/+2
There were a lot of "holes" in the system, like size changes, wielding multiple weapons... here's some spackle to make it usable:
-- 2 weapon fighting defaults to the slowest weapon used... and then degrades a level.... so longsword(average)/shortsword(fast) defaults to the longswords's speed of average then is penalized to slow. (all very slow weapons are already 2 handed, and thus cannot contradict this progression)
so the longsword/shortsword in fighter20's hands is
longsword: +20/+13/+6
shortsword: +20/+13/+6
The shortsword alone would have granted 5 attacks..
+20/+16/+12/+8/+4
... the real bonus here is that the actual attacks are all at higher to hit+.. may be worth it. :)
--any fast or very fast weapon can use weapon finesse-- but if 2 weapon fighting.. BOTH weapons must be fast or very fast to retain weapon finesse... even if they degrade to average speed.. for example: a short sword (fast) can benefit from weapon finesse. if fighting with 2 of them; the speed degrades to average... but since both weapons are fast alone; the finesse benefit may still apply.
--damage scales differently for weapons... it was something like;
very slow: like d12-3d6
slow: like 2d6-2d8
average: like 2d4-d12
fast: like d6-d8
very fast: d3-d4
this was a balance for the very slow weapons being a single attack / round weapon until level 11. it doesn't hit often.. but when it does, it HURTS.
--size changes: there's two dynamics at work.. the size of the weapon, and the size of the wielder. the speed changes with the relationship between these two factors...
for example:
a medium sized long sword isd8 damage.
give it to a tiny creature, it becomes very slow, requiring 2 hands
give it to a small creature, it becomes slow
to a medium sized creature, it is average as it should be.
give it to a large creature, it becomes fast
give it to a huge creature, it becomes very fast
a small sized long sword is average speed deals d6 damage.
give it to a diminitive creature, it becomes very slow, requiring 2 hands
give it to a tiny creature, it becomes slow
to a small sized creature, it is average as it should be.
give it to a medium creature, it becomes fast
give it to a large creature, it becomes very fast
--if a weapon does not require 2 hands but you choose to do so; it will improve weapon speed 1 step... very fast weapons cannot benefit from this. In addition; average and slow weapons may gain the 1.5xstrength as well... but fast and very fast weapons do not gain extra strength damage... when this tactic is used, weapon finesse may apply to the weapon while wielded 2 handed... thus, a longsword (average) wielded 2 handed gains the benefit of 1.5 strength to gamage, becomes (fast) and can use weapon finesse.
--haste spells in EQ were very complex, depending on the level of caster.
{table=head]level|effect
5-8 | improve speed by 1 (max is (very fast))
9-12|speed remains the same: 1 extra attack at top BAB
13-16|improve speed by 1: 1 extra attack at top BAB
17-20|improve speed by 2 (max is (very fast))
21-24|improve speed by 2: 1 extra attack at top BAB
25-28|improve speed by 2: 2 extra attack at top BAB
29+|improve speed by 3 (max is (very fast)): 2 extra attack at top BAB
[/table]
this was a lot of trouble! best to leave haste as is for DnD...
--weapon speed enhancement property improves speed 1 step for every +1 added to the weapon... a 2 handed sword of speed +4 would be a very fast weapon still wielded with 2 hands (the exception to the 1.5 strength/very fast paradox) THIS is a better solution to the clumsy haste above... it could also be a feat or a class feature at level 7 and 13; to improve all relative weapon speeds... it would be a pretty obvious "gotta have it" feat... and pretty sweet for 7th and 13th level fighters to get their sword and board up to very fast speed with an average weapon, or to average speed with a massive fullblade.
feedback always appreciated... this is simply here for reference sake, if anyone likes it.