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Kepsek
2010-10-12, 06:19 PM
I'm starting a 3.5 edition campaign where the main enemies will be the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. A few things are required to know before I continue.

This is taking place in a campaign setting of my own creation. The world is composed of ten layers of floating continents, each between 1 to 8 miles from those on either side. The creation of the world was inspired by 4th edition:

Over two hundred gods fled a dying cosmos to ensure their survival. After centuries of travel, they came across a young world created by a group of twenty beings later named primordials. The world was a chaotic world, and the gods saw a chance to start over once they got rid of the primordials. Without warning they struck at one, but merely stunned the primordial momentarily. The primordial's counterattack instantly slew the brother gods Hextor and Heironeous. The Early War had begun.

The war raged for centuries, gods dropping like flies while on occasion they managed to slay a primordial. Finally the war was over. Twenty gods remained, and the last primordial to fight was imprisoned. However the cost was too high. The world that the war was fought over was destroyed beyond repair, and the prisons containing the primordials wouldn't last forever.

It was then that a foreign entity, neither god nor primordial, appeared and offered to restore the world and permanently imprison the primordials. The one condition was that the gods could never enter the new material plane. Exhausted and battered, the gods agreed on one thing for the last time. The entity ripped the primordials out of their prisons and placed them within new ones represented by a layer of land. The entity then vanished, leaving the gods to look over the new world.

Okay, now that I've got that out of the way, the Four Horsemen in this setting are servants of the strongest of the primordials. They have no form of their own, but instead possess others to serve as their host/vessel. Each horseman also has some item that serves as a place to stay between possessions. According to the template that I'm using for the Four Horseman (Advanced Bestiary by Green Ronin Publishing) the Horsemen vanish when all four are without a host. These items counter that. So long as one of these items remain, so do the Horsemen.

For now I'd like ideas on various hosts to use for the Four Horsemen (Death, Famine, Pestilence, and War in case anyone was wondering) and I'll also be bouncing ideas around.

Urpriest
2010-10-12, 08:10 PM
Well Cancer Mages are fun for Pestilence, if a tad cliche and hilariously abusable. Famine should have Famine Spirits (MMII IIRC) in tow. Death could be a Dread Necromancer, though due to my affection for the Discworld/Good Omens Death I'm picturing something more subtle and terrifying...some longtime ally of the PCs perhaps.

One basic question: do you want these to be subtle beings manipulating events, or do you want them riding across the countryside pillaging and apocalypsing?

LOTRfan
2010-10-12, 08:17 PM
Well, first, I highly recommend watching Two Minutes To Midnight (http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/index.php?title=5.21_Two_Minutes_To_Midnight) for Death. The way Julian Richings portrays him is interesting, and really ups the mysterious factor (even if you take none of the powers, personality-wise he's cool). Pestilence also makes an appearance.

Anyway, War should be a very powerful melee-type character, maybe with spell-like abilities that enhance his strength or gives his weapons temporary magical enhancements.

Pestilence, I'd go with Cancer Mage too. Perhaps Vermin Lord too, perhaps as carriers for said diseases?

mcl01
2010-10-12, 08:19 PM
Blighter matches up well with Death, Pestilence, and Famine. Deforestation, Blightfire, Animate Animals, etc.

For War, a war-domain cleric devoted to the Primordials. Take him down the Ordained Champion path (handwaving some of the restrictions). Go clericzilla. Divine Power, Righteous Might, etc.

Amiel
2010-10-12, 08:28 PM
Perchance brush up on eschatology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eschatology)?

I think their power level may be dependent on the echelon you wish to prescribe them, as in, will they be the BBEG or mere lackeys of an even greater power or consortium of powers?

Are they working with or against the Seven Deadly Sins?

Are they representative of the full form the Horsemen take, or are they just aspects?

An insidious idea would be that they don't truly die, that the one who causes their demise is indeed subsumed by the Horseman, fated to erupt as the self-same harbinger of the apocalypse, their personality and minds over-riden by the overwhelming evil of the Horseman.

LOTRfan
2010-10-12, 08:34 PM
Maybe the Horsemen cannot be truly killed until their related catastrophic element is stopped? Somewhere in the world, someone is starving? Famine exists! A war between two neighboring nations breaks out? Guess who just got stronger!

I really need to start to think of my own ideas....

Brendan
2010-10-12, 08:34 PM
For War I would imagine just a very small man with very small actions who just so happens to say the right words into the right ears. Beguiler perhaps?

Amiel
2010-10-12, 08:54 PM
Also, an idea would be to have various seals scattered across your world or even across the multiverse; these seals must be broken for the Horseman to grow stronger.

However, since the Horseman are multiversal archetypes, they would not weaken as seals are increasingly abjured with protective sigils or encased within stone et al, all designed to protect against their breaking.


I would give War the ability to incite conflict, whether through words alone or simply by being within the vicinity, and the ability to project an onslaught of weapons out of thin-air by waving a hand; and War could be a female.


Since Death is the corruption of death, perhaps rename him to Demise?

Kepsek
2010-10-12, 09:06 PM
I think their power level may be dependent on the echelon you wish to prescribe them, as in, will they be the BBEG or mere lackeys of an even greater power or consortium of powers?

Are they working with or against the Seven Deadly Sins?

Are they representative of the full form the Horsemen take, or are they just aspects?

An insidious idea would be that they don't truly die, that the one who causes their demise is indeed subsumed by the Horseman, fated to erupt as the self-same harbinger of the apocalypse, their personality and minds over-riden by the overwhelming evil of the Horseman.

That's the really interesting thing about them as a template, with them being possessing spirits they can be the Big Bad or lackies. In regards to the SDSs, I actually hadn't thought about them, I might or might not develop D&D forms of them I'm not sure. And I already decided to make one of the Horsemen (haven't decided which yet) take over the form of a close friend of the PCs.


One basic question: do you want these to be subtle beings manipulating events, or do you want them riding across the countryside pillaging and apocalypsing?

A little bit of both, I'm considering that they change tactics with each new host (though I haven't decided for sure yet). For example, in one host War would be riding at the head of a massive horde while in another host he would be subtly manipulating two different nations into a massive conflict.

The Horsemen were created by the strongest primordial with two overarching goals: Find a way to free him, and to bring the creations of the gods to ruin.

Each of the imprisoned primordials have some sort of "Avatar" that serves as their will on the Material Plane, the only other one that I've chosen is the Tarrasque. In future campaigns I'm probably going to have the PCs be forced to fight these "avatars"


For War, a war-domain cleric devoted to the Primordials.

The primordials in this setting don't have clerics, but instead the power leaking from their prisons is the source of Arcane Magic. I thought that would be an interesting twist for higher levels should any of the primordials be slain.

llamamushroom
2010-10-12, 09:08 PM
I would give War the ability to incite conflict, whether through words alone or simply by being within the vicinity, and the ability to project an onslaught of weapons out of thin-air by waving a hand; and War could be a female.

*cough*GoodOmens*cough*

Anyway, I'm going to second Urpriest's question - subtle inciting-war/famine/etc.-type HotA, or "SLAY THEM ALL!!!!!"-type? My personal choice would be the former (echoing Brendan's Beguiler suggestion), especially seeing as you want them to keep on possessing different characters.

So, what power level are you going for? And how early will you be introducing the HotA? If you go low level to start with, you could have the PCs encounter a goblin trying to rally several tribes to go to war against each other, or an assassin who doesn't care about collateral, that sort of thing. Over time, the HotA are able to possess more powerful and influential vessels, and this progression just happens (completely by coincidence, mind) to line up perfectly with the party's level. :smalltongue:

Amiel
2010-10-12, 09:10 PM
*cough*GoodOmens*cough*

I don't know what this is in reference to, sorry. I haven't read Good Omens (which is a shame).

llamamushroom
2010-10-12, 09:15 PM
I don't know what this is in reference to, sorry. I haven't read Good Omens (which is a shame).

The three things you mentioned? All but conjuring weapons from mid-air are aspects of War in Good Omens.

Amiel
2010-10-12, 09:18 PM
Great minds :smalltongue::smallbiggrin:

Seriously though, it's War, s/he should have the ability to do those things, amongst others.

KaganMonk
2010-10-12, 09:21 PM
Good Omens would be an excellent book for you to read in preparing. Written by Terry Pratchet and Neil Gaiman. Highlights:

War: A woman who just seems to have war erupt around her without even trying.
Item: A plain old sword

Famine: An exceptionally successful fast food tycoon.
Item: A pair of scales

Pollution: Replaced Pestilence when penicillin came about and the old man thought the game was over. Pollution is a nondescript person who just happens to be in place to cause many horrible environmental disasters.
Item: A silver circlet crown

Death: Classic appearance, ALWAYS TALKS IN CAPS. No item, but can't cause the apocalypse without the others.

Kepsek
2010-10-12, 09:24 PM
*cough*GoodOmens*cough*

Anyway, I'm going to second Urpriest's question - subtle inciting-war/famine/etc.-type HotA, or "SLAY THEM ALL!!!!!"-type? My personal choice would be the former (echoing Brendan's Beguiler suggestion), especially seeing as you want them to keep on possessing different characters.

So, what power level are you going for? And how early will you be introducing the HotA? If you go low level to start with, you could have the PCs encounter a goblin trying to rally several tribes to go to war against each other, or an assassin who doesn't care about collateral, that sort of thing. Over time, the HotA are able to possess more powerful and influential vessels, and this progression just happens (completely by coincidence, mind) to line up perfectly with the party's level. :smalltongue:

The Horsemen will be clashing with the PCs on and off throughout their career, finally culminating to a final battle years after their first encounter with them. The first encounter with the Horsemen will be Death giving a potential recruit a test of bringing...well, death. When the PCs defeat the recruit, Death will possess him and attempt to deal with the PCs himself. I already have the final host of Death chosen, a sorcerer lich with levels in barbarian and spellsword:biggrin:

Another thing that I have in mind is for the PCs to get one of the items that serves as a home for one of the horsemen early in their career. Now, the horsemen can hear and see everything that goes on around their home when they're inside it in addition to communicate with their compatriots no matter the distance. So when the PCs are combating one of the horsemen, another one is feeding their plans and strategies to their enemy. When it is finally revealed what their "good luck charm" actually is...

Amiel
2010-10-12, 09:32 PM
An idea would be to have them project a disingenuous facade; they may even look normal or non-descriptive. That is, until overwhelming evil lays waste to everything the PCs may hold dear.


Some ideas for Famine's salient abilities.
Gluttonous Feast (Ex): Famine not only induces the sin of gluttony in others, but is also an avid disciple of its own failings. Dismissing the idea that the consumption of others grants any beneficial effects, Famine consumes as the ultimate act of defilement, the vilest act of hate. It can feast to produce the following effects.

Feast of Mouths: 66/day, Famine can open small, viciously toothed maws in the palms of its hands or upon its wings. Its claws and wing slams deal additional bite damage.

Feast of Terror: 65/day, in full view of the victim's allies, Famine can punish and defile the matter and flesh of victims to evoke startling, constricting terror in all creatures within a 1,300-foot radius. The victim so eaten is dealt the same damage as if passing through Famine's gizzard and also 66 points of vile damage. A creature in the area must succeed on a DC 72 Will save or be affected as though by a fear spell (CL 45th). The save DC is Constitution-based.

Feast of Unmaking: Famine consumes to rob victims of any hope of resurrection or revival, to savor the sweet poison of lingering fear and pain, and to consume the remaining vestiges of the opponent's soul. 13/day, Famine can consume a creature to obliterate it. Creatures 'killed' in this manner are beyond any hope of resurrection or equivalent, and are disintegrated as the spell (CL 45th).

Wasteful Feast: 33/day, Famine can express the utter banality of evil through the act of engorging on those slaughtered and vomiting the creature back up. Each time, the victim passes through Famine's gizzard, it is dealt 13 points of acidic damage. Additionally, the victim suffers from 6 points of damage each to its Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma scores. Famine can eat and vomit the same creature 66/day if it decides to forego turning its attention on others.

Wake of Famine (Ex): Thousands of gnashing, thrashing mouths converge invisibly around Famine in a 1,300-foot radius. As a full action every round, Famine can force these mouths to ingurgitate its surroundings. Buildings are devoured greedily and nature itself is deprived of its nutrients to be ultimately rendered barren. This is exactly as the blight spell, except everything within a 1,300-foot radius is affected. Damage dealt in this manner is converted into temporary hit points for Famine.

Brendan
2010-10-12, 09:54 PM
Death would be interesting as an old woman who is unaware of her powers and persona, but simply has all who come near her die in 1d10 days of seemingly unrelated circumstances. Just a lonely old woman who wants a connection with others. This would make having to destroy her much more interesting. Her Item could be a pair knitting needles and a partially completed death shroud. when she finishes the shroud she will lose her human form and simply become the full powered Horseman.

For war I like the idea of the unassuming man (or woman) who steps lightly behind the scenes to incite the battles. Maybe a continuous inverted Calm Emotions spell around him or something. His Item should be a banner charmed to show the sign of whatever country the viewer is loyal to. If (When) all the others have become the all out Horseman War will follow suit, but only when the true chaos begins.

Pestilence: worm that walks wizard with continuous contagion aura. a straightforward villain who just loves to watch a disease take hold. It's (their, maybe? what pronoun do you use for a worm that walks?) item is a living rat, the worm that walks' familiar. Pestilence will ascend to all out Horseman form when Pestilence cures itself (themself?) of some sort of magical disease that forces the human form.

Famine: a starving man who absorbs the nutrients around him. something like horrid wilting at will. or not at his own will at all. you could have him not want to devour everything around him, but simply do so involuntarily. The pain of not doing so is unbearable, so he will crawl from town to town, ravaging the land, just to make the pain stop. have him try to help the heroes, if they can reason with him and stay out of range. He doesn't know where his Item is, but it is an apple that he believes will remove his hunger if he consumes it. However, instead, eating it will cause him to change from the human form of Famine to the Horseman itself.

These are just ideas of my own, and may not be what you're looking for. at a certain point i forgot what our question was...

Kepsek
2010-10-12, 10:14 PM
Some ideas for Famine's salient abilities.

I apologize if I didn't make this clear, but the Horsemen don't have divine ranks (if my vague memory that salient abilities are from Deities & Demigods is correct). Part of the setting is that anything with a Divine Rank (even 0) is completely and utterly destroyed. That aside those are some interesting abilities, and I may use them once the PCs reach epic levels.

And on Brendan's suggestion for Death, that would make for an interesting encounter. I have a few ideas for adventures taking place in a dreamscape, that would be a good one to use, thanks!

Amiel
2010-10-12, 10:15 PM
Salient abilities can also refer to the abilities of cosmic entities; which are not divine by definition. This is why I didn't refer to them as salient divine abilities.

Kepsek
2010-10-12, 10:52 PM
Okay, I haven't ready anything with salient abilities in at least a year so my knowledge on them is a little rusty.

Amiel
2010-10-12, 10:53 PM
No worries, feel free to change the numbers around as you see fit.

Xefas
2010-10-13, 12:02 AM
Well, just to throw out some stuff from their original mythos, each Horseman was the manipulative behind-the-scenes guy. None of them really had combat-chops.

Conquest (what the lame call "Pestilence" when they wish to be especially lame) is the heretic and blasphemer. He corrupts social groups from the inside out. I suppose, in your setting, his job would be to get people to stop worshiping deities and start worshiping primordials. So, the hosts he chooses would probably be clerics and other divine casters that then sway their followers towards the primordials' way of thinking.

War is the politician that fear-mongers states and countries into paranoia and hatred towards one another. His job is to get everyone fighting amongst themselves so they don't even notice the true threat until it's too late. His hosts would probably be Bards (for Glibness), Marshals, and other people in leadership positions.

Famine is the greedy broker or banker who messes with your money-business. He doesn't do anything so trite as withering crops or spreading disease. No, he just moves in, causes complete economic collapse such that your average man starves, not because food isn't available, but because their society has failed them in ways that they couldn't have foreseen or been responsible for. Perfect hosts for Famine would be Wizards. Have them just cast a bunch of Wall and creation spells and flood the market with cheap materials (coordinate with Conquest to keep the cleric-folk from casting Create Food and Water) until the system breaks.

Death is just kind of the clean-up guy. The Horsemen originally came in a specific order; not all at once. After Conquest, War, and Famine were done, and everyone was blasphemous, paranoid, starving mongrels killing each other over perceived sleights, differences in religion, or scraps of bread, then Death came. It's not clear what he does, only that whatever he does, it's the finishing blow. An interesting take would be having him possess Binders, Incarnum classes, and Factotums (very adaptable classes). He specializes in finding your weakness, and covering up for his buddies' weaknesses, whatever their current hosts may be.

Ajadea
2010-10-13, 12:26 AM
Hmm. Viewed as characters,

War should be a bardbarian-type, using Charm Person and such to create conflict, and then diving in the battle itself with big martial two-handers. Yes, it. It's an anthropomorphic personification, gender is optional.

Pestilence is a cleric, destroying the immune system and casting things like Contagion. Its natural attacks should inflict some sort of disease, and generally weaken saving throws.

Famine...I'd make it possess a NG druid at least once, just for kicks. Abilities to turn the fields barren, trigger starvation, etc. Aim for a very passive Horse-person with Famine, I'd say.

Death...well, I always saw Death as a very LN, no-nonsense, personification. The sort of big-sibling to the rest of the Horse-people, the one who sighs and watches them run off and cleans up their messes when everything's said and done. Death ends lives but not out of malice. Something else brings the person to the brink of death, and Death just slays them. Incorporeal diviner, talks to the dead, uses abilities like Time Stop and Celerity, cannot be eliminated, but is honestly not an antagonist so much as a beleagured babysitter to some over-excitable kids.

Scow2
2010-10-13, 12:31 AM
War should be a Warblade, hands down, no argument, no exception. No other class comes close to War (It says so right in its name)

Gralamin
2010-10-13, 12:36 AM
War should be a Warblade, hands down, no argument, no exception. No other class comes close to War (It says so right in its name)

How about a Warlock or Warmage? And obviously it should be a Warforged. :smallwink:

Mewtarthio
2010-10-13, 12:43 AM
Death is just kind of the clean-up guy. The Horsemen originally came in a specific order; not all at once. After Conquest, War, and Famine were done, and everyone was blasphemous, paranoid, starving mongrels killing each other over perceived sleights, differences in religion, or scraps of bread, then Death came. It's not clear what he does, only that whatever he does, it's the finishing blow.

Minor nitpick here: It's not strictly speaking the finishing blow. The horsemen show up at the beginning of the apocalypse. They are, in fact, the tamest of the lowest tier of the various disasters that strike.

Xefas
2010-10-13, 12:53 AM
Minor nitpick here: It's not strictly speaking the finishing blow. The horsemen show up at the beginning of the apocalypse. They are, in fact, the tamest of the lowest tier of the various disasters that strike.

You're right, of course. Though, I see it more as "They show up in the beginning, but they keep working for a while before they're done." The passages about them are more towards the beginning, but they could very well have a large gap of time between each arrival, until Death shows up at the very end. They just don't mention him at the end, because...well, honestly, because the Four Horsemen are supposed to be allegorical, and not literal mythical entities.

What I think is kinda funny is how ubiquitous the tale of the Four Horsemen is, despite the fact that they're minor metaphorical characters mentioned in a few tiny paragraphs in the last section of a MASSIVE (and often dry) book.

Surely other religions had similar takes? Why doesn't everyone's D&D apocalypse have a Loki and a Fenrir, for instance? There's probably more concrete info about them to work with.

Scow2
2010-10-13, 12:57 AM
How about a Warlock or Warmage? And obviously it should be a Warforged. :smallwink:
Nah, not Warlock, because War is a self-contained badass. He needs no outside power. And not a Warmage because he isn't going to be some squishy caster. The only class that fits is Warblade, the melee powerhouse, who stomps through all, and shrugs off the worthless effects of those pansy caster-types.

Amiel
2010-10-13, 03:30 AM
You could also conflate Death with Atropos, she who cuts the strands of time.

As a salient ability, Death could gather the strands of life into a bundle and wield scissors (the abhorred shears) against it, or barring that, sever it using a slashing motion.

Dark_Nohn
2010-10-13, 04:13 AM
Well, just to throw out some stuff from their original mythos, each Horseman was the manipulative behind-the-scenes guy. None of them really had combat-chops.

Conquest (what the lame call "Pestilence" when they wish to be especially lame) is the heretic and blasphemer. He corrupts social groups from the inside out. I suppose, in your setting, his job would be to get people to stop worshiping deities and start worshiping primordials. So, the hosts he chooses would probably be clerics and other divine casters that then sway their followers towards the primordials' way of thinking.

War is the politician that fear-mongers states and countries into paranoia and hatred towards one another. His job is to get everyone fighting amongst themselves so they don't even notice the true threat until it's too late. His hosts would probably be Bards (for Glibness), Marshals, and other people in leadership positions.

Famine is the greedy broker or banker who messes with your money-business. He doesn't do anything so trite as withering crops or spreading disease. No, he just moves in, causes complete economic collapse such that your average man starves, not because food isn't available, but because their society has failed them in ways that they couldn't have foreseen or been responsible for. Perfect hosts for Famine would be Wizards. Have them just cast a bunch of Wall and creation spells and flood the market with cheap materials (coordinate with Conquest to keep the cleric-folk from casting Create Food and Water) until the system breaks.

Death is just kind of the clean-up guy. The Horsemen originally came in a specific order; not all at once. After Conquest, War, and Famine were done, and everyone was blasphemous, paranoid, starving mongrels killing each other over perceived sleights, differences in religion, or scraps of bread, then Death came. It's not clear what he does, only that whatever he does, it's the finishing blow. An interesting take would be having him possess Binders, Incarnum classes, and Factotums (very adaptable classes). He specializes in finding your weakness, and covering up for his buddies' weaknesses, whatever their current hosts may be.

Another way of working this is the succession of horsemen, that War comes from Conquest (of one nation turning into an empire,) that Famine comes from War and Conquest, and that Death comes from Famine, War, and Conquest. A good way to campaignenate this concept is to warn the PCs early about the horsemen, such as in a dream, or by having the PCs do a delivery quest to some elderly sage, and have him/her tell the PCs of the events to come. Of course, the PCs should be destined to fail three times before they actually win against all four, or the fourth incarnation of said rider... or possibly that they have to win against Famine before the rider becomes the fourth horseman, and truly unstoppable. As Xefas said, it's not clear what he does, maybe what he does is just be symbolic of the defeat of the PCs.

Amiel
2010-10-13, 04:16 AM
War doesn't necessarily arise from conquest though; its meaninglessness is drawn forth through conflict; conquest has a more lawful bent to it.

Dark_Nohn
2010-10-13, 05:21 AM
War doesn't necessarily arise from conquest though; its meaninglessness is drawn forth through conflict; conquest has a more lawful bent to it.

Doesn't necessarily, but usually, and has good effect for the evolving horseman that I described, and as the second horseman would make sense to feed off of the success of the first

Amiel
2010-10-13, 06:46 AM
Not even usually; conquest, I feel, is too narrow a field to limit war to. The objectives of war differs in its context, offensive war (submission, assimilation, destruction, annihilation) and defensive war (repulsion, survival). War will exist irrespective of a country's designs on another country, irregardless of any aspirations to sovereignty.

I do agree that pestilence and famine will result in the aftermath of war.

KaganMonk
2010-10-13, 07:55 AM
Who would be better avatars of War than a bunch of adventurers going around and stirring up monsters or working against evil governments? The first sword or other implement you give the party fighter could be the vessel of War. And seeing what the PCs are doing, he just sits back, tips of his brothers, and lets the PCs go to work.

For Famine, you might check out the Blighter (CDivine?). If nothing else, I remember it being good at destroying large amounts of plant life effortlessly. Have it possess a Druid and turn it from growing to killing.

Kepsek
2010-10-13, 09:33 AM
Who would be better avatars of War than a bunch of adventurers going around and stirring up monsters or working against evil governments? The first sword or other implement you give the party fighter could be the vessel of War. And seeing what the PCs are doing, he just sits back, tips of his brothers, and lets the PCs go to work.

For Famine, you might check out the Blighter (CDivine?). If nothing else, I remember it being good at destroying large amounts of plant life effortlessly. Have it possess a Druid and turn it from growing to killing.

The idea of War being the Horseman spying on the PCs and using them as avatars is something really cool that I hadn't considered. Originally I was going to have Death be the horseman spying on the PCs, but I like this idea more!:smallsmile:

Urpriest
2010-10-13, 02:58 PM
Not even usually; conquest, I feel, is too narrow a field to limit war to. The objectives of war differs in its context, offensive war (submission, assimilation, destruction, annihilation) and defensive war (repulsion, survival). War will exist irrespective of a country's designs on another country, irregardless of any aspirations to sovereignty.

I do agree that pestilence and famine will result in the aftermath of war.

The Horseman Conquest as described classically is more of a Conquest-as in Overthrow-as in society's fabric breaking down. And as the restrictions and bonds that hold peace together break down, you get War. It's not exactly Conquest the way we would describe it, more a Conquest of hearts and minds.

I really like the previously presented idea of Famine initially breaking the economy with Wall spells and the like. An economic Famine is a good subtle start. Another would be to popularize a food made from some sentient creature, driving people to terrible acts in their pursuit of it. Make it hard to tell that the creature is sentient/will be sentient at first, like that one Futurama episode where they popularize deep-fried alien babies. Some form of Myconid would be ideal for this.

Mewtarthio
2010-10-14, 11:04 PM
The Horseman Conquest as described classically is more of a Conquest-as in Overthrow-as in society's fabric breaking down. And as the restrictions and bonds that hold peace together break down, you get War. It's not exactly Conquest the way we would describe it, more a Conquest of hearts and minds.

You could also view it as an empire driven by Conquest overextends itself and breaks down among insurrections, rebellions from conquered territories, and invasions from worried or opportunistic neighbors. Either way, War definitely has a vibe of "A guy you'd share a drink with today could be shooting at you tomorrow," so a certain degree of anarchy and/or civil war is pretty much required.


I really like the previously presented idea of Famine initially breaking the economy with Wall spells and the like. An economic Famine is a good subtle start.

It's also pretty easy to interpret Famine as representing economic collapse more than just a lack of food (though, obviously, the two are closely tied).

Kepsek
2011-01-17, 10:40 PM
Okay, this campaign has been going on for a while now and the PCs have defeated each of the Horsemen at least once. They've managed to destroy the vessels of two Horsemen and believe that they've destroyed a third. A recent twist that a cousin of mine thought of, why would the Horsemen only have one vessel? Each of the horsemen now has at least two vessels, and each has only one of those vessels on the Material Plane.

Death has his extra vessel in the Feywild, War has his in the Shadowfell, Famine has his in the Elemental Chaos, and Pestilence has his stored within the corpse of Heironeous in the Astral Sea.

The vessels that I've decided on are: War has an adaptive sword and a sapphire, Famine has his scales and a hand-sized rock, Death has a lich's phylactery and a dead tree, and Pestilence has a small gem and one of Heironeous' teeth.

Any more thoughts on tactics for the Horsemen?

Cealocanth
2011-01-17, 11:36 PM
Just another idea in the pot. I'm not quite sure how you're doing it, but this is one way to bring down society and create a very large, but subtle threat until the very end. It also gives the chance of recreation after the Horsemen have moved through and Death has been warded away. If I were to run this, it would be ridiculously hard. The Appocalypse is not something that can be easily avoided when it comes.

War, being the bringer of it, not necessarily a battlefield participant in it, could theoretically take the form of some sort of Uber Doppleganger. It acts beyond the time frame and spectrum of all other Dopplegangers, using his deceptive powers to take down society into utter chaos.

Pestilence could act as a Typhoid Mary, or better yet, a sentient outbreak. Pestilence takes the form of a deadly and untreatable virus. It moves like a living creature through whole towns and people, leaving nothing but the sick in his path. It should be very subtle and move as slowly as a glacier through the world. It should also grow as more and more people become infected.

Famine is a shape shifter unlike any other. S/he can take the form of a swarm of locusts, a blight on the local crops, a new potato disease, or worse. He does have an actual form, but he is rarely seen in it, as his usual form is the occasional cause of a lack of food and clean water. Famine may be a very hard foe indeed.

And Death. When all the others are completed with their jobs, Death will come, cloaking over the sky and rising above the world. He will demand the souls of all creatures, because as the others have brought down society into ruin, it his his job to end it all. Hordes of deaths minions will roam the streets and collect everyone, both living and dead. This is where the party makes their last stand. If they can fight back the collectors, the day may very well be theirs.