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BobVosh
2010-10-13, 05:52 AM
I want a spell that does what the tree feather token does. Is there such a one? Any spell list is fine.

Major creation doesn't really work since you would have to be like CL 100* to make a tree the size it describes.

*Not actually calculated.

Edit: Oak is a preference, not a requirement.

Because I got bored: (5-foot-diameter trunk, 60-foot height, 40-foot top diameter)

Assuming the branches etc make up for the top of the trunk tapering, i.e. a cylinder of 5 ft diameter, 60 ft high, we get a required CL of 943. Assuming a lack of consumptive field + Squirrel nests this would be hard to acquire.

Urpriest
2010-10-13, 03:22 PM
I'd advise reverse-engineering the item and seeing what you get. A single-use wondrous item is worth Spell level x Caster level x 50gp, or for a full caster Spell level x (2 x Spell level -1) x 50gp. Applying this to the Quaal's Feather Token: Tree gives somewhere between a second and a third level spell.

I wouldn't advise this, however. Spells come back every day. Giving a player the unlimited ability to create permanent trees is asking for the most annoying behavior they can think up.

ericgrau
2010-10-13, 03:26 PM
Ya most spells with a permanent effect have an xp or gp cost. Maybe a 100-350 gp cost would keep the spell in check. OTOH I think Druids are the ones who already use the token most often to begin with so no matter what discount you give it will be a power up for them vs. what they had before.

Hmmm, so using the "just enough to make players think twice about bothering" method, I might make the material component 300-350 gp. If it's something they do every day they'll use the spell but if they save it for the unexpected they'll say "Screw the spell, I'll just stock up on tokens". That sounds about right. As for spell level my guess is second level, but that's less important here.

Chess435
2010-10-13, 03:42 PM
Material Component: An acorn made of pure gold, whose value cannot be less than 250 gp.

Cespenar
2010-10-13, 05:14 PM
Plant Growth, while not exactly creating a tree from nowhere, is a 3rd level druid spell with a huge radius, and is Instantaneous.

2nd level Druid spell would work nicely for a tree-creating spell, I think. A normal acorn would suffice.

I mean, come on. There are better spells out there to break the game with.

ericgrau
2010-10-13, 05:39 PM
Druids have a lot of higher level spells that work with trees. Give them a tree and they can teleport, hide, set traps or summon. They don't need to be closer to wizards, they have shapechange and etc. But besides that spamming a forest could get ugly in the hands of a smart player. Ditto for any permanent thing, which is why they all have costs. You can make it affordable in small numbers, fine. That'd be a minor power boost if you go too cheap, oh well. But free is a bad idea.

Plant growth only makes existing trees bushy and hard to move through. I don't think it even makes them taller, only in need of a gardener.

BobVosh
2010-10-13, 07:33 PM
As far balance goes, I'm not worried. I'm a player for this one :D

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9162997

This will explain what I want it for.

Wall of Thorns + Liveoak + Summon mighty tree were what I really wanted to tree out this time around.

Flickerdart
2010-10-13, 07:40 PM
Cantrip, all spellcasting classes. Material component: Quaal's Feather Token: Tree. :smalltongue:

ericgrau
2010-10-13, 08:03 PM
The CR of the treant is one level higher than a summon nature's ally 6, so the tactic certainly shouldn't be free. Better negotiate it with your DM.

OTOH this is assuming you take advantage of the 11+ day duration and cast it out of combat, assuming you have time to prepare and fulfill the spell's fluff requirements. Creating a tree and then liveoaking it during combat (2 rounds) would be underpowered even if the tree were free, but spells shouldn't be balanced based on bad ideas that should never happen.

Coidzor
2010-10-13, 08:12 PM
The CR of the treant is one level higher than a summon nature's ally 6, so the tactic certainly shouldn't be free. Better negotiate it with your DM.

You mean like having to cast a 2nd or 3rd level spell and then a 6th level spell to do slightly more than a 6th level spell does by itself?

Which means taking two rounds to start it up in combat without quickening which will up the slot-usage.

Which wouldn't work anyway unless you were already in a forest or suitably sacred natural environment, your house, or...ah, the within 300 feet of something you wish to guard and protect, meaning yourself.

Zaq
2010-10-13, 08:32 PM
Druids have a fantastic 6th level spell called Bones of the Earth (PHB2) that grants them the ability (for 1 rd / 2 lv) to spend a standard action to Instantaneously conjure a 5' diameter, 20' pillar of stone. A similar effect comes from the level 4 Sudden Stalagmite in the Spell Compendium, but that only creates a single pillar (but can explicitly be used offensively in a rather grisly way). Given that stone is rather more durable than wood, I would put the ability to conjure trees like that no more than the levels of those spells (and while a druid of the level needed to cast those spells can do weird things with trees... he can do weird things with stone, too).