What spell(s) did V use to free the slaves?

[feltex]

Looking at the panel in #750 where V is using a line of guards a screen:

All of the guards in the line have a lack of opaqueness about them except the one at the bottom right.

I would conclude that V cast mirror image on the opaque guard who is magically charmed/held.

[Nimrod's Son]

It's more likely just an illusion. There's nothing behind the guard at the bottom to show through; he's probably just as transparent as the others.

[originalpimp]

I'm pretty sure none of them are actually opaque, and V made a line of guard illusions. I suppose it's to make the area over there look less suspicious if a real guard happens to show up?

[feltex]

Corrected original post.

As for use of illusion as suggested I would tend to disagree. My rules knowledge is more 1st ed than 3.5 so maybe things have changed a bit and I am lost in translation. Magic users were more inclined to cast mirror image, and illusionists more likely to cast illusions. Additionally if it were an illusion, wouldn't V make the guard illusions slightly different and not in a perfect line?

[Morquard]

Illusionists in 3.5 are nothing more than wizards specialised in the Illusion school. Also "more likely" does not mean "never ever casts that other spell"

Also the guards all have different skin colors etc, so I'd say its an illusion not just a mirror image.

However I do have to agree, the guy at the bottom seems more opaque then the others in the line. Maybe its one of the slaves in the guard uniform from the guy Haley knocked out?

[Psyren]

Isn't V an evoker?

The bottom guy does look a bit more substantial, but still not quite "real." I'd say he's an illusion too; the Giant just didn't have to make him transparent since there's nothing behind him from the "camera's" perspective.

I'm more interested in the spell Durkon just worked out (with Malack's help.)

[Shale]

V being an evoker only means that s/he specializes in evocation magic, and, to balance out the bonuses of school specialization, cannot cast Conjuration (or, as far as we know) Necromancy spells. Nothing bars illusions except personal preference.

[AtopTheMountain]

Actually, I disagree. The last guard probably just seems less transparent because there's not really anything behind him to show through. There's the floor, but it's not showing through the other ones either.

So, yeah. Illusion.

[AxeD]

What spell did V cast when they were making a run for it. (2nd panel down, 3 across)
I can't tell if it's an illusion to make it look like there are guards there, or some form of enchantment to take out the guards in the tower.

[zimmerwald1915]

What spell did V cast when they were making a run for it. (2nd panel down, 3 across)
I can't tell if it's an illusion to make it look like there are guards there, or some form of enchantment to take out the guards in the tower.
That looks like a ranged effect on the guards in the tower, to prevent them from either sensing the escape or from reporting it. Mass Hold Person or Blindness/Deafness might be it.

[StrykerX]

I would guess one of the mid level illusions (possibly Major Image) to make an illusionary group of guards to keep anyone from getting close enough to see the escape, followed by Deep Slumber to disable the tower guards before they realize what's happening. Ordinary guards are generally low level mooks, so knocking three of them out with a Deep Slumber spell wouldn't be hard and it has the advantage that they might just think they fell asleep on duty (and therefore be very unlikely to tell anyone for fear of being punished) once they wake up. Something like Mass Hold Person would leave the guards knowing they had been magically disabled and therefore be a lot riskier.

[Magicyop]

I would guess one of the mid level illusions (possibly Major Image) to make an illusionary group of guards to keep anyone from getting close enough to see the escape, followed by Deep Slumber to disable the tower guards before they realize what's happening. Ordinary guards are generally low level mooks, so knocking three of them out with a Deep Slumber spell wouldn't be hard and it has the advantage that they might just think they fell asleep on duty (and therefore be very unlikely to tell anyone for fear of being punished) once they wake up. Something like Mass Hold Person would leave the guards knowing they had been magically disabled and therefore be a lot riskier.

Further, they could report that Haley and V helped to free the slaves, and stunned them, and then they would be in a teakettle of trouble.

[the_tick_rules]

the opaque is so we know it's an illusion, elan's stuff used it all the time. As for what spells specifcally does it matter?

[Xykeb Zraliv]

the opaque is so we know it's an illusion, elan's stuff used it all the time. As for what spells specifcally does it matter?

I think you're getting the meaning opaque confused... opaqueness is the lack of transparency seen in illusions. The issue being discussed here, I believe is that the bottom guard appears opaque - that is to say, nothing can be seen through him and he thusly looks somewhat like a real person rather than the other guards through whom we can see other things.

And no, of course it doesn't matter. But that's never stopped people from debating points before...

[Roland Itiative]

The bottom guard is as transparent as all the others. The only difference is the only thing we see through him is the floor. Compare the colour of the helmets of the illusionary guards with that of the "possibly real" one. See, they're the same colour. Now compare that to the normal guards elsewhere in the strip. The real helmets are a darker shade of grey.

[Barstro]

The bottom guard is as transparent as all the others. The only difference is the only thing we see through him is the floor.

Not true. The bottom guard is opaque, otherwise we could see the outline of the next guard's helmet through his helmet. Only the others are translucent.

I still think that the bottom guard is an illusion, though. Either the Giant did some incorrect artwork, or V has a 14% chance of creating a solid illusion.:smallsmile:

[The Linker]

Not true. The bottom guard is opaque, otherwise we could see the outline of the next guard's helmet through his helmet. Only the others are translucent.

I still think that the bottom guard is an illusion, though. Either the Giant did some incorrect artwork, or V has a 14% chance of creating a solid illusion.:smallsmile:

You can't see any of the other guards through any of the other guards, when you look closely. You can only see V, the wall, etc.

The illusions are never visible through other illusions -- in this strip, at least.

[Psyren]

V being an evoker only means that s/he specializes in evocation magic, and, to balance out the bonuses of school specialization, cannot cast Conjuration (or, as far as we know) Necromancy spells. Nothing bars illusions except personal preference.

I know that, I was responding to feltex (he thought V was an "illusionist.")


The bottom guard is as transparent as all the others. The only difference is the only thing we see through him is the floor. Compare the colour of the helmets of the illusionary guards with that of the "possibly real" one. See, they're the same colour. Now compare that to the normal guards elsewhere in the strip. The real helmets are a darker shade of grey.

Agreed, he's another illusion. Why would he need a "model" anyway? Illusions do not work that way! Good night!

[Barstro]

You can't see any of the other guards through any of the other guards, when you look closely. You can only see V, the wall, etc.

Bah, you are correct. V's robe sort of follows the curve of the third soldier's helmet and I took V's foot to be that soldier's shoulder. No reason why I thought that way, since that would make the helmet and shoulder very different from the others.

That being the case; why is V behind them at all? Shouldn't V be off to the side so that the people (s)he is trying to fool will see them against the ground and think they are real?:smalltongue:

[Roland Itiative]

That being the case; why is V behind them at all? Shouldn't V be off to the side so that the people (s)he is trying to fool will see them against the ground and think they are real?:smalltongue:
The illusions are probably supposed to be opaque in-universe... We only see transparent illusions as a visual cue, just like how we can see invisible characters as white outlines (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0657.html)...

EDIT: Well, the invisible thing was a one time deal, and had an in-universe explanation, so it might not have been the best example :smalltongue:

[The Linker]

On invisible characters -- we've seen white outlines for a few of them, including Vaarsuvius both escaping from Xykon and in the most recent strip, behind Haley as she saps a guard.

Here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0706.html), the elf has the white inivisble outline... but the paladin just has white eyes and nothing more.

Off-topic, but anyone know what that's about? :smallconfused:

[13arrage]

On invisible characters -- we've seen white outlines for a few of them, including Vaarsuvius both escaping from Xykon and in the most recent strip, behind Haley as she saps a guard.

Here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0706.html), the elf has the white inivisble outline... but the paladin just has white eyes and nothing more.

Off-topic, but anyone know what that's about? :smallconfused:



Small correction, I'm pretty sure he isn't a Paladin, just the former leader of one of the resistance groups we saw Haley with a while back. Probably generic fighter levels.

Not sure why he's 'more' invisible than the elf swift hunter/ranger/thing.



As for the spell V cast at the guards in the tower, COULD it be Mass Charm Person or something similar? I thought it had a shorter range than it looked like the tower was.

[The Linker]

Small correction, I'm pretty sure he isn't a Paladin, just the former leader of one of the resistance groups we saw Haley with a while back. Probably generic fighter levels.

Indeed, this is true. Slipped out. :smallredface:

He's Paladin-y, I'll say.

[Nimrod's Son]

That being the case; why is V behind them at all? Shouldn't V be off to the side so that the people (s)he is trying to fool will see them against the ground and think they are real?:smalltongue:
To answer your question with another: shouldn't the police officers see Elan through the transparent warden? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0387.html)


Here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0706.html), the elf has the white inivisble outline... but the paladin just has white eyes and nothing more.

Off-topic, but anyone know what that's about? :smallconfused:
Rich answered that at the time. If I remember correctly it was something about the two characters overlapping and being a little visually confusing when they both had white outlines, so he did away with one altogether. I'll try and find the quote.

[feltex]

After reading the comments so far, I now agree that the bottom right guard is probably transparent too. Additionally, a mirror image alone wouldn't explain for the difference in skin tones.


Here's more for further speculation:

What caused V to become visible?

Additionally,

Has this entire "jail-break" been executed so that Hailey and V. have not been identified as hostile? Are they killing the guards? Or temporarily incapacitating them without being seen?

[The Linker]

Well, Haley sapped one of the guards unconscious, I don't know why she wouldn't sap them all.

I assume V became visible because, well, Invisibility only lasts 1 min/level. :smalltongue:

[Elf Ranger]

As other people have said, the bottom guard is probably opaque. The reason he looks visible is that V is not behind him. As for not getting caught, V could have presumably used a mine wipe spell on the guards.

[feltex]

Invisibility only lasts 1 min/level. :smalltongue:

Ah. I'm lost in translation again. The 1st ed. spell duration was permanent until canceled, dispelled or by making an attack. The latter was what I was assuming happened in V's case.

[originalpimp]

:smallsigh:
I'm saddened by how many people in this world still don't know what "opaque" means.

[AxeD]

Well, Haley sapped one of the guards unconscious, I don't know why she wouldn't sap them all.

Well, arguably, all it would take is one guard to get lucky with an initiative roll or Haley to roll a 1 on her attack and he'd be able to sound the alarm. Also, it'd be near impossible for haley to take out multiple guards without (a) alerting the other guards, or (b) killing them. (I'm guessing that since she sapped the guy, she isn't trying to cause undue trouble by killing people.

[Nimrod's Son]

:smallsigh:
I'm saddened by how many people in this world still don't know what "opaque" means.
Indeed, I don't think I've ever encountered a word in the entire English language where so many people think it means the exact opposite to what it does. Lord knows why.

I spent half my life thinking "opaque" meant "see-through" (I remember being really disappointed as a child when I bought "Opaque" Fimo modelling clay and then finding out it didn't come out looking like glass after it had been cooked) and I still find I have to correct myself about it today. Hence the edit to my first post in this thread, incidentally (which only took me half a day to notice, yay).

[mucat]

Indeed, I don't think I've ever encountered a word in the entire English language where so many people think it means the exact opposite to what it does. Lord knows why.

I spent half my life thinking "opaque" meant "see-through" (I remember being really disappointed as a child when I bought "Opaque" Fimo modelling clay and then finding out it didn't come out looking like glass after it had been cooked) and I still find I have to correct myself about it today. Hence the edit to my first post in this thread, incidentally (which only took me half a day to notice, yay).
I hadn't realized until I read this thread exactly how many people think that.

My guess is that it might have to do with the "opacity" settings on graphic design software; the only time you actually mess with those settings is when you want an object to be partially transparent. Of course, that's just because the default opacity is 100%....but still, you can see how someone who uses that software a lot would start thinking that "opacity" means "transparency".

[Barstro]

:smallsigh:
I'm saddened by how many people in this world still don't know what "opaque" means.

I think it's because we all know what "solid" means, and what "transparent" means. Usually, the only other word we hear in proximity of those two is "opaque", so we assume THAT word means the bridge between the other two. And it's usually used to describe glass, or other transparent material, to point out that it is not totally transparent; reaffirming the belief that opaque refers to semi-transparent.

Plus, "Translucency" is hard to spell and has a lot of syllables.:smallbiggrin:

[Barstro]

double post.

[mucat]

I think it's because we all know what "solid" means, and what "transparent" means.

But "solid" isn't the opposite of "transparent". Glass is solid.

[KillItWithFire]

Just clearing this matter up,

Opaque: Cannot see through it.

Translucent: Can sort-of see through it, like seeing a shadow through a film.

Trasnparent: Glass, can see right through it.