5th Cell, the hit and miss developer

[Sipex]

Many of you may know who this is, for those of you that don't 5th Cell is the developer of the semi-popular 'Drawn to Life' series, the dissapointing blockbuster Scribblenauts, and two lesser known games: Ecocreatures and Lock's Quest.

They're admittedly not a bad developer, they have a lot of ambitions but they sometimes fail to direct them properly. Scribblenauts is a good example of this, a game which had a lot of potential, won the E3 Game of the Year award of 2009 but in the end failed to deliver what people wanted.

For those of you who care or keep track they're actually making a new iteration of the series "Super Scribblenauts" which is focused on allowing you to use adjectives to enhance your objects which will affect how they act, what they can do and also focuses a lot on the complaints fans had about the first game (controls for one thing).

Another thing 5th cell has been trying at (and hopefully succeeded with) is making a plausible strategy game with a twist.

edit: Got my developers mixed up, Eco Creatures was done by Troika Games.


Eco-creatures was their first attempt at this, you played a large yellow pinecone man who fought against robots with his legions of squirrels and squirrel offshoots. He planted trees as buildings and could assist in battle with spells. Unfortunately the controls were very wonky and frustrating to use, making this a much less liked game. In addition, you had to walk everywhere, you couldn't scroll around the map and have your squirrelly minions competently go out and do their work. Again, a game with a good premise but bad execution.


Lock's Quest is a more recent game (2008/2009) which flew completely under the radar (despite getting the E3 2008 game of the year award). You play an enterprising young man from a stereotypical village who's skill is in building stuff. This game works much closer to a tower defense game than a strategy game except that you build the towers wherever you want, can assist in battle and have a lot more structures to choose from besides "This tower shoots bullets, this one shoots ice, etc"

I've just recently started playing it but I'm surprised it didn't get a lot more acclaim. This has the be their first game I played which DOESN'T have control issues. You tap and drag to build things, move the camera with the DPad and L is used as a shortcut to rotate things. Battles are fought alternating between two timed rounds: Build and Battle. Build lets you build walls, gates, cannons, traps, robots, etc to defend your objective with. Battle spawns legions of mechanical enemies to generally trash your stuff, try to kill you and such. During battle you move around with the stylus (point & click or drag), can attack enemies (although you're pretty fragile so they can overwhelm you if you're stupid about it) and can repair your structures.

Anyone have input on this odd developer who's obviously got great ambitions but can be dodgy on the execution half of the formula?

[deuxhero]

Troika Games.

[Sipex]

???

I have a feeling you're saying I messed up one of who the games were developed by. Is this right?

edit: Ah, Ecocreatures.

You can just say that next time, your point comes around a lot clearer when you do.

[deuxhero]

I was answering the question at the end of the main post (thought you meant if there were any others, did not read the question clearly enough).

[Sipex]

Right then?

Anyways, any 5th Cell discussion?

Additional research shows that Lock's Quest got good review scores but never really got the kind of attention a game of it's calibur would usually see.

[Xefas]

Of their games, I've only played Scribblenauts and Lock's Quest, and I think you summed up things pretty well. "They're admittedly not a bad developer, they have a lot of ambitions but they sometimes fail to direct them properly."

Even though my experience with their games has so far been lackluster, I still have far more respect for them than companies like Nintendo, insofar as game design is concerned. At least 5th Cell tries things. Sure, Scribblenauts has unforgivably awful controls. But, if it had been a first-party Nintendo title, it would've only had 8 words, and you'd be taught 1 word at the start of each level, and each level would require you to use the word you were just taught over and over, with maybe 5% of each level requiring use of a word you'd learned previously. And there'd be another Scribblenauts game released every year, where the main character has forgotten all 8 of their words, and has to relearn every single one over again, with maybe 1 difference for each sequel.

And there certainly wouldn't be Cthulhu vs God on a Skateboard with a Shotgun showdowns.

[Domochevsky]

...

And there certainly wouldn't be Cthulhu vs God on a Skateboard with a Shotgun showdowns.

There wouldn't be any booze in either case, though. Can't have alcohol in our Cthulhu vs God on a Skateboard with a Shotgun showdowns. That'd be just wrong. >_>

[Shas aia Toriia]

Played Lock's Quest, got bored.
It may not have control issues, but it also doesn't have entertainment value.

[Mando Knight]

Even though my experience with their games has so far been lackluster, I still have far more respect for them than companies like Nintendo, insofar as game design is concerned. At least 5th Cell tries things. Sure, Scribblenauts has unforgivably awful controls. But, if it had been a first-party Nintendo title, it would've only had 8 words, and you'd be taught 1 word at the start of each level, and each level would require you to use the word you were just taught over and over, with maybe 5% of each level requiring use of a word you'd learned previously. And there'd be another Scribblenauts game released every year, where the main character has forgotten all 8 of their words, and has to relearn every single one over again, with maybe 1 difference for each sequel.

...First time I've seen this argument against Nintendo. Unless I'm thinking of a different critically-acclaimed gaming company that couldn't stop printing money if it wanted to.

[MoelVermillion]

...First time I've seen this argument against Nintendo. Unless I'm thinking of a different critically-acclaimed gaming company that couldn't stop printing money if it wanted to.

Eight words and one per stage is pretty clearly a mockery of the trend in Zelda for dungeons to only really require that one new item to pass and his point apart sequels and forgetting everything probably describes how Mario games handles plot/sequels pretty well. I'm not saying I necessary agree with his point but I can see where his criticisms are coming from pretty easily.

On the subject of 5th cell, I think that they have large ambitions that are implemented badly but ultimately its a good thing they try. I hope Super Scribblenauts does more then just add new words though, a lack of words wasn't the problem in Scribblenauts it was a flawed control scheme and problems with the physics engine (at least in my opinion). I think that if they tightened up the games engine to make objects interact better and the player control more easily then Scribblenauts could be a truly awesome game, until they do that however its only kind of average.

[Xefas]

...First time I've seen this argument against Nintendo. Unless I'm thinking of a different critically-acclaimed gaming company that couldn't stop printing money if it wanted to.

As a gaming company, I respect them. The Wii was great. The DS was great. Their business practices are top-notch. Kudos to them.

As a game developer, their games are good, too. Every Zelda or Mario or Metroid game that comes out is good. But that's all. They're 'good' in a sea of good media. It's not enough to just be 'good' when I know they have the potential to make crazy phenomenal stuff if they wanted to. With an ounce of effort, they could make games that would instantly revolutionize modern gaming in a profound and positive way.

But why should they? Making just another mediocre incremental increase will make them all embarrassingly rich. Making something amazing would probably either lose them money or make a far smaller profit. And I support anyone's decision to make whatever choices they have to to become embarrassingly rich. But I don't have to respect them. I would do the exact same thing in their position. But I wouldn't expect to be respected for it.

[Mando Knight]

It's not enough to just be 'good' when I know they have the potential to make crazy phenomenal stuff if they wanted to. With an ounce of effort, they could make games that would instantly revolutionize modern gaming in a profound and positive way.
Define "crazy phenomenal," in such a way that doesn't include selling 4 million copies in one month in Japan alone.

I think they also have revolutionized modern gaming, several times. The N64 brought back analog control sticks to home console main controllers, also miniaturizing them into the thumb-sticks used today. It also introduced force-feedback controllers. The NES revitalized an otherwise dead US video game economy. The Wavebird was the first first-party wireless controller. The Wii started the whole motion-gaming thing.

[Xefas]

Define "crazy phenomenal," in such a way that doesn't include selling 4 million copies in one month in Japan alone.

I think this falls under the jurisdiction of 'ad populum'. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_populum)


I think they also have revolutionized modern gaming, several times. The N64 brought back analog control sticks to home console main controllers, also miniaturizing them into the thumb-sticks used today. It also introduced force-feedback controllers. The NES revitalized an otherwise dead US video game economy. The Wavebird was the first first-party wireless controller. The Wii started the whole motion-gaming thing.

Yes, and I said I respected them as a gaming company. I respect their hardware. I've said twice now that I don't respect them as game developers, and you seem to have conveniently refrained from actually mentioning anything involving games they've developed. If you have nothing to say about game development, why are we having this conversation?

[Sipex]

Nintendo can be innovative when they want to be, look at Pikmin for example. Granted, that was a while ago. The mario games remain pretty innovative as well, Galaxy was a game of the year (unique level design, amazing camera, tight controls) and New Super Mario Bros Wii never used the same level gimmicks twice (each level has it's own gimmick).

5th Cell has made a lot of comments about Super Scribblenauts which make me believe they're truly trying to fix all the issues people had with the first game. The physics engine is getting a fine tuning, Maxwell will now be controlled with the D-Pad and buttons and items are supposed to act more how you expect them to. They've also reduced the number of 'action' style levels as they started getting samey near the end and were all solved by the same method.

[Octopus Jack]

My two encounters of 5th Cell come from Scribblenaughts and Lock's Quest.
I never actually owned Scribblenaughts and just played other people's copy of it which was entertaining but I never actually tried to sit down and play it properly.
Lock's Quest I actually owned and loved, I introduced it to friends and they also loved it, it is quite a remarkable game and it has a really fun multiplayer. :smallbiggrin:

[Sipex]

Lock's Quest is definitely a good game so far. I've not gotten far with it but it's a lot more innovative than I expected.

It saddens me that it's the least known of all their games.

[Comet]

Lock's Quest is indeed a lot of fun. As is Scribblenauts. And Drawn to Life. I wouldn't pay full price for any of them, though, as they are a bit of one-trick ponies.

Speaking of Drawn to Life (the first one), did anyone else find the ending really, really powerfully dramatic? I don't know why, but I have a clear memory of sitting in a dark room, staring at my DS and thinking to myself "This is supposed to be a silly little game for kids that I only played because I got it for free. Why are these characters going through such bittersweet motions and why is this music so damn emotional? Is this game trying to tell me something?" and so on.

Really, I did not expect the game to end on such a ponderous note. It really made me stop and question my preconceptions about what different genres of games are able to do when it comes to story. Moments like that are my favourite aspect of gaming.

[Lord Seth]

Nintendo was pretty "revolutionary" with Wii Sports.

[Sipex]

I didn't play drawn to life but I heard:

Ending:

Everything comes to an end because it's just a kid dreaming or something.


Which does sound pretty profound.

Lock's Quest is proving to be challenging, I've yet to create a foolproof tactic against the oncoming hordes, I make something that works and it usually gets overrun in the final wave or when the boss comes out.

[Milskidasith]

I think this falls under the jurisdiction of 'ad populum'. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_populum)

I am pretty sure when you ask how someone revolutionized the industry, citing how it caused a bunch of people to buy their products is an acceptable response.

[KBF]

I am pretty sure when you ask how someone revolutionized the industry, citing how it caused a bunch of people to buy their products is an acceptable response.

I don't know that Modern Warfare 2 was all that revolutionary.

Super Mario Galaxy is a far better example of Nintendo's competence. The Wii is a pretty good example of revolutionizing the way a lot of people think about games, it's hard to argue that it did not at all live up to it's codename. Most of the bigger titles on it from Nintendo and other respected 2nd/3rd party developers have challenged existing concepts pretty well. The problem with saying "Nintendo could revolutionize so much more if they wanted to" is that for there to be a good successful revolution, it really has to start with an idea that is both new and genuinely great.

But there aren't a lot of ideas that satisfy both categories, so we take what we get.

[SparkMandriller]

Super Mario Galaxy is a far better example of Nintendo's competence.

Why Galaxy instead of 64? 64 was a lot more whoa when it came out.

[Lord Seth]

Why Galaxy instead of 64? 64 was a lot more whoa when it came out.It was also released almost 15 years ago.

[SparkMandriller]

I wasn't aware there was a statute of limitations on video games.

[Sipex]

In this case it makes sense. There isn't just one Mario game, nor is Mario 64 the last one, they come out with more every year or so, so it's important to show that the company is still innovative and revolutionary.

[Sipex]

Just an update, Super Scribblenauts came out this weekend.

Apparently it's a lot better than the original. (http://ds.ign.com/articles/112/1126909p1.html)

To go over roughly, Super Scribblenauts is lauded as 'The game we all thought Scribblenauts would be.' Maxwell now controls with the Dpad (or stylus if you hate yourself I guess) and the controls are said to be precise so you won't be diving into lava over and over.

The puzzles are simpler overall, possibly because they seem to be more geared towards the 'Puzzle' side of Scribblenauts 1 and not the 'Action' side.

And of course, adjectives.

Anyone tried it?

(Also, just got to the big twist in Lock's Quest. Good god)

[Lord Seth]

I wasn't aware there was a statute of limitations on video games.My point was that saying that a company did something innovative 15 years ago doesn't have much bearing on whether they're still doing that nowadays.

[MoelVermillion]

Just an update, Super Scribblenauts came out this weekend.

Apparently it's a lot better than the original. (http://ds.ign.com/articles/112/1126909p1.html)

To go over roughly, Super Scribblenauts is lauded as 'The game we all thought Scribblenauts would be.' Maxwell now controls with the Dpad (or stylus if you hate yourself I guess) and the controls are said to be precise so you won't be diving into lava over and over.

The puzzles are simpler overall, possibly because they seem to be more geared towards the 'Puzzle' side of Scribblenauts 1 and not the 'Action' side.

And of course, adjectives.

Anyone tried it?


Haven't tried it yet (not playing any new games until my semester is finished) but I also have heard that it is greatly improved over the first game, this makes me a very happy man. Scribblenauts isn't particularly my cup of tea when it comes to gaming and I don't think I'm really the target audience for the game. Nonetheless when someone creates a game with an innovative idea behind it I find it to be pretty depressing when little annoyances stack up and stop it from being the game it could have been. The fact that they've gone back and attempted to make a game that better realizes their vision makes me happy.

[Shas aia Toriia]

Just an update, Super Scribblenauts came out this weekend.

Apparently it's a lot better than the original. (http://ds.ign.com/articles/112/1126909p1.html)

Every time somebody links to IGN for a game review, I die a little on the inside.

[Sipex]

Does it matter?

It's a person on a site who, if you read the review, lists actual facts about the first and second games and actually explains how this one improves over the first.

It's nearly identical to every other review out there.