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View Full Version : Caster Level progression (3.0/3.5)



Mordaenor
2010-10-15, 01:23 PM
So, I've read a few threads about Casters way overpowering Non-Casters once you get past lower levels in 3e. And I can more less agree to the point. Then I thought about the fact that casters can Craft Items, at the expense of XP. And that got me thinking, do you think WOtC intended that that Casters WOULD make items for their non-Caster allies as a general rule, thus boosting the non-casters and slowing themselves down. Not sure it worked if that was the intent, but it was something that occured to me and I thought I'd share it.

Yuki Akuma
2010-10-15, 01:40 PM
Crafting items does not appreciably slow down the advancement of spellcasters. The more XP you spend, the more XP you end up getting.

Aharon
2010-10-15, 01:47 PM
...assuming the advancement rules in the DMG are used. They aren't particularly good, though :smallyuk:

(Yay for going from fighting housecats to being godlike in 3 months)

Yuki Akuma
2010-10-15, 01:49 PM
...assuming the advancement rules in the DMG are used. They aren't particularly good, though :smallyuk:

(Yay for going from fighting housecats to being godlike in 3 months)

This is the advancement system WotC had in mind when they created the item creation rules, leading to the assumption that, no, they weren't intended to curtail caster power; they didn't think spellcasters were overpowered.

Shpadoinkle
2010-10-15, 01:51 PM
This is the advancement system WotC had in mind when they created the item creation rules, leading to the assumption that, no, they weren't intended to curtail caster power; they didn't think spellcasters were overpowered.

Bear in mind they also thought casters would be casting things like Fireball and Cure X Wounds in battle.

GoodbyeSoberDay
2010-10-15, 01:55 PM
Bear in mind they also thought casters would be casting things like Fireball and Cure X Wounds in battle.And yet they printed all those other spells.

Yuki Akuma
2010-10-15, 01:57 PM
Bear in mind they also thought casters would be casting things like Fireball and Cure X Wounds in battle.

Yep.


And yet they printed all those other spells.

Yep.

They only playtested blasty wizards.

CyMage
2010-10-15, 11:15 PM
And yet they printed all those other spells.

Quite a few of those spells were in the earlier editions. Not including them would be strange.

Jack_Simth
2010-10-15, 11:24 PM
Crafting items does not appreciably slow down the advancement of spellcasters. The more XP you spend, the more XP you end up getting.
Well, with the standard 3.5 XP tables, you only get more XP if you're a level or more behind when the awards are assigned. So the Wizard who Crafts himself to the point where he doesn't level at the same time as the rest of the party catches up quickly... so depending on how often XP is assigned, and how far back the Wizard crafts himself, he can be maybe one level behind the party, although that will *usually* only be for the occasional session, rather than continuously.

Tyndmyr
2010-10-15, 11:27 PM
Well, with the standard 3.5 XP tables, you only get more XP if you're a level or more behind when the awards are assigned. So the Wizard who Crafts himself to the point where he doesn't level at the same time as the rest of the party catches up quickly... so depending on how often XP is assigned, and how far back the Wizard crafts himself, he can be maybe one level behind the party, although that will *usually* only be for the occasional session, rather than continuously.

And if you're not a level behind...it never matters! Pretty much a win/win.

You have to be a pretty heavy crafter to end up more than one level behind....heavy enough that I believe it's a safe assumption it wasn't intended/tested.

Zaydos
2010-10-15, 11:29 PM
Now the 3.0 DMG said you didn't get extra XP if you were a level behind; which meant crafting actually hurt.

Jack_Simth
2010-10-15, 11:33 PM
Now the 3.0 DMG said you didn't get extra XP if you were a level behind; which meant crafting actually hurt.
Yes. But it *also* meant that if you fell behind due to an unlucky death, you were stuck there. Pretty much forever. I suspect that's why they changed that in the 3.0 -> 3.5 transition.

Zaydos
2010-10-15, 11:43 PM
Yes. But it *also* meant that if you fell behind due to an unlucky death, you were stuck there. Pretty much forever. I suspect that's why they changed that in the 3.0 -> 3.5 transition.

Which is why I prefer the 3.5 version (I houseruled it in 3.0 and I never bothered to check 3.5 till a month ago). Also making crafting hurt casters encourages them to be greedier when they do it anyway.

Shhalahr Windrider
2010-10-16, 05:27 AM
Yes. But it *also* meant that if you fell behind due to an unlucky death, you were stuck there. Pretty much forever. I suspect that's why they changed that in the 3.0 -> 3.5 transition.
Yeah, I’m pretty sure they wanted to solve that. I don’t know if they realized they were also making the “pay XP to craft” rules useless at the same time.

Yuki Akuma
2010-10-16, 05:37 AM
Maybe crafting should require a different resource. Say, spell slots?

Of course to balance this out you'd have to be able to get spent spell slots back somehow. >.>