explosive rune bombs

[alisbin]

hey playgrounders,
a mate of mine and i are working out his spell list and we were considering the idea of explosive runes in books as bombs (i can make a wimpy dispel wand to activate).
however he noticed that there is nothing in the SRD (PF or 3.5, we're playing PF with lots of modified3.5 sources) that says that destroying the document that contains the explosive runes triggers it. i've heard about this idea alot so i wanted to know, is there an errata that spells this out? or is it an assumption on the part of players?

[Lord Vukodlak]

The runes detonate when red or when a dispel magic fails against it, that is what the spell description said so that is the only way they detonate. As it doesn't say destroying the document triggers the runes it doesn't.

Now here's a trick, low HD skeletons with explosive runes T-Shirts.

[boomwolf]

Screw T-shirts, engrave it on their skulls. more stylish.

[alisbin]

i'm a thrallherd in this campaign so no need for the skeles :)
hmmm 1 use min level dispel items.... must go investigate
anyway, thanks mates, now to go plan

[Alcopop]

Wrap explosive rune notes (as many as your GM allows) around arrows and run an abjurant champion archer build. fire the arrows at a square adjacent to the enemy and use the abjurant champions swift dispel (at a low cl) to set them all off.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Screw T-shirts, engrave it on their skulls. more stylish.

Explosive runes only works on objects of 10lbs or less and is for objects not creatures.

[Uncertainty]

I think that the issue with dispellable explosive rune book-bombs was that the first set of runes to go off would wipe away all of the rest in the book - resulting in a mere 6d6 points of force damage for the whole thing.

Someone proposed a way around this though: A +0 metamagic from Dragon Magazine 347 called Relicguard Spell that makes blasty spells not harm objects. How you convince your DM to allow this, I have no idea.

[dgnslyr]

Explosive runes only works on objects of 10lbs or less and is for objects not creatures.

Do skeletons need their heads to function properly? If not, just detach the head, inscribe the Explosive Runes, re-attach it roughly, at which point it can be argued to no longer be a part of the skeleton, and off it goes.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Or engrave them before animating the skellies, when you cast the spell the skulls are objects.

[blackjack217]

Send someone a letter that says "I prepared explosive runes this morning... five times"

[FelixG]

Send someone a letter that says "I prepared explosive runes this morning... five times"

Put it on a bunch of scrolls of parchment then slide it under the doors or commoners in random cities.

[SilverLeaf167]

Now that I think about it, isn't it possible to delay Explosive Runes? If yes, you could delay them so that the victim would have time to read through the whole text, activating all the Runes? Because, you know, they probably finish reading if it explodes on their face, leaving the rest of the runes useless.

Also, it says it affects anyone close enough to read it. Wouldn't that mean that someone with better vision would be affected from further away? :smalltongue:

[Moriato]

Because, you know, they probably won't finish reading if it explodes on their face.


I think you may be underestimating the lack of self-preservation inherent in becoming an adventurer.

"Oh, a book!" *Opens book* *BOOM* "WOW! It's trapped, it must be important!" *Turn page* *BOOM* "It must be REALLY important!" *Turn page* *BOOM* "CLERIC! I need help reading this book!"

[Volos]

My favorite combo for explosive runes involves using blindsight creatures wearing items covered in explosive runes while being magically disguised / illusioned to appear as a lovely maiden. Then the low level dispelling fun happens just when all the male PCs are busy hitting on the hot female NPC.

[ToySoldierCPlus]

I think you may be underestimating the lack of self-preservation inherent in becoming an advenurer.

"Oh, a book!" *Opens book* *BOOM* "WOW! It's trapped, it must be important!" *Turn page* *BOOM* "It must be REALLY important!" *Turn page* *BOOM* "CLERIC! I need help reading this book!"

With your permission, good sir, I am sigging this. :smallbiggrin: I can't stop laughing!

[Moriato]

With your permission, good sir, I am sigging this. :smallbiggrin: I can't stop laughing!

Heh, well now that I've corrected a couple of typos, feel free :smallwink:

[SilverLeaf167]

I think you may be underestimating the lack of self-preservation inherent in becoming an adventurer.

"Oh, a book!" *Opens book* *BOOM* "WOW! It's trapped, it must be important!" *Turn page* *BOOM* "It must be REALLY important!" *Turn page* *BOOM* "CLERIC! I need help reading this book!"
ARGH, stupid typo! I meant that they WILL stop reading it if it explodes.

[panaikhan]

There's a far simpler way to make bombs.
I remember reading a 'potion' variant, where instead of drinking a liquid, the person simply breaks a clay tablet or stick or somewhat.
According to RAW, you can make 'potions' of any spell - so, make clay-pidgeon Fireballs

[Moose Man]

stupid fire resistant character w/map inscribed w/permanent explosive runes. he stood there for a hour trying to read them.

[Dusk Eclipse]

stupid fire resistant character w/map inscribed w/permanent explosive runes. he stood there for a hour trying to read them.

Explosive Runes deal force damage BTW and... thread necromancy=not cool

[Darrin]

however he noticed that there is nothing in the SRD (PF or 3.5, we're playing PF with lots of modified3.5 sources) that says that destroying the document that contains the explosive runes triggers it. i've heard about this idea alot so i wanted to know, is there an errata that spells this out? or is it an assumption on the part of players?

It has to do with the phrase, "attempting to dispel or erase the runes and failing to do so triggers the explosion." Destroying whatever the runes are written on is generally interpreted as being the same as trying to erase them. Hence, once the first rune goes off, it attempts to "erase" the rest of the runes, and they go off as well.

[ghashxx]

I would definitely have to disagree about destroying something being the same as erasing, because at that point you're arguing semantics. If it meant erased or destroyed then it would say so. Of course all this means is you need multiple individual sheets of paper within one compartment, like a scroll tube or something. With several individual sheets, you do an area dispel on all the sheets, fail all the checks, and they all go off. Unless your DM rules the dispel check failing against the first one causes it to explode before the dispel spell can finish dispelling.

[BeholderSlayer]

Illusory Script > Explosive Runes....walk around waving it as a flag in combat, or put it on a billboard in a busy city with the Suggestion stating "Give all your money to the wizard, X." :smallbiggrin:

[ericgrau]

Explosive rune bombs are an old trick. Like other overly-literal thought exercises it works both ways: Namely by RAW you automatically succeed on a dispel check against your own spell and there is no option to voluntarily fail it.

IMO most infinite damage stacking tricks should revert to immersion rules; i.e., if total immersion only does X damage then so should stacking a million of something, at most, because you can't be affected more than total immersion. There are clear rules for fire (20d6 in lava, 1d6 in a burning room or if the creature is "on fire") and acid (10d6), but you could estimate other kinds of area damage. Immersion takes a lot of volume so I wouldn't even use full immersion damage for 10-20 sources of 1d6 or even 100-200; I'd require a lot more.

[Douglas]

Explosive rune bombs are an old trick. Like other overly-literal thought exercises it works both ways: Namely by RAW you automatically succeed on a dispel check against your own spell and there is no option to voluntarily fail it.
Actually, the automatic success against your own spells is only mandatory for targeted Dispel Magic. It is explicitly optional for area Dispel Magic, though you do still have to roll.

[Uncertainty]

...Unless your DM rules the dispel check failing against the first one causes it to explode before the dispel spell can finish dispelling.

Which is were the metamagic I mentioned before comes in:


A +0 metamagic from Dragon Magazine 347 called Relicguard Spell that makes blasty spells not harm objects.

Put it on your runes, and they won't damage the object that they are written on, just everyone around it.

Edit:
Fun fact: the runes won't damage constructs either. Reusable Warforged bomb, anyone? (Add permanency for epic lulz, if that is even possible by RAW.)

[ericgrau]

Still doesn't let you trigger the first rune with the most common method mentioned: a failed dispel check. You need another trigger

[Cyrion]

I've always preferred glyph of warding over explosive runes. It's much more flexible, does more damage without infinite loops, is easier to set up for infinite loops if you're so inclined, and doesn't have to be read. There's a pesky material component, but that can be circumvented when necessary.