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ShriekingDrake
2010-10-16, 07:51 PM
How would you rule on the 3rd level druid spell Crumble in the Spell Compendium?
CRUMBLE
Target: One structure or construct
Saving Throw: Fortitude half (object)
Spell Resistance: Yes (object)
The spell deals "1d8 points of damage per caster level to the object (hardness does not apply) to a maximum of 10d8. The size of object affected depends on your level. If you cast this spell on an object of greater size than you can affect, the spell fails. "
Level Size of Object Affected
Up to 9th Large
10th–15th Huge
16th–18th Gargantuan
19th–20th Colossal
The spell seems focused on destroying an object. What about destroying only a part of an object. For instance, rather than crumbling a wall or a bridge, what about crumbling part of a wall or bridge? That is, suppose my target is not the entire bridge, but rather a 5 foot section of the bridge, which I crumble to make the bridge fall? Or suppose I want to crumble not the whole wall, but a 5x5 part of the wall, so I can walk through it? Are these things possible with this spell?

Also, because the saving throws indicate "object" in the parentheses, does this mean that constructs don't get a save?

ShriekingDrake
2010-10-17, 06:43 AM
Bump. Sorry to bump so soon. I'm on a bit of a time crunch.

Reinboom
2010-10-17, 06:57 AM
First:
I do not believe crumble is OGC, and as such, should not be posted word for word. You may wish to edit that out.


Second:
I would rule that you can target a specific section of a wall (down to 5x5x5 ft.) as an object or you can decide for the entire thing. The reason for this ruling is because what defines a whole object or not is rather vague. In the core rules (see: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm), a wall is given as an individual object with no further description given so in turn it seems the intent is for walls to be considered as separate objects.

Beyond this point, spells seem to be rather greedy in general on how inclusive they are. For example, the teleport spell disallows taking only a portion of an object. Based on this, I would say that crumble attempts to age as much of a continuous object it can though may hold a focus down to 5 ft x 5 ft x 5 ft. (This would be a houserule. There is no actual guidelines given for such things.)

Incidentally, aging out a section of a wall should massively destabilize everything dependent on that section.

Foryn Gilnith
2010-10-17, 07:32 AM
Dungeonscape and possibly the DMG (SRD doesn't tell) express the hit points of walls in terms of 10 foot x 10 foot sections. I'd be inclined to be stingy and disallow use on a partial object, but if I were to allow use on a partial object, I'd allow Crumble to affect a 10'x10' section of wall.

Also, constructs do get a save against the spell. Their Fortitude saves are likely rather low, and thus their failure is likely.

ShriekingDrake
2010-10-17, 09:04 AM
First:
I do not believe crumble is OGC, and as such, should not be posted word for word. You may wish to edit that out.
Fair Use (Section 107 of the copyright act) should allow the quotation in this context, because the actual wording would affect interpretation. That is we need to see the text being discussed. Our use is non-commercial, factual (even though the text itself could be deemed creative), the amount of the whole work being used is small compared to the whole work, and there really is no market for single spells within a larger work. Nonetheless, I reduced the text to appease different sensibilities and I appreciate the stewardship.


Second:
I would rule that you can target a specific section of a wall (down to 5x5x5 ft.) as an object or you can decide for the entire thing. The reason for this ruling is because what defines a whole object or not is rather vague. In the core rules (see: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm), a wall is given as an individual object with no further description given so in turn it seems the intent is for walls to be considered as separate objects.

Beyond this point, spells seem to be rather greedy in general on how inclusive they are. For example, the teleport spell disallows taking only a portion of an object. Based on this, I would say that crumble attempts to age as much of a continuous object it can though may hold a focus down to 5 ft x 5 ft x 5 ft. (This would be a houserule. There is no actual guidelines given for such things.)

Incidentally, aging out a section of a wall should massively destabilize everything dependent on that section.

Thanks, I appreciate this interpretation. This is consistent with my own view here.