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WarKitty
2010-10-18, 10:25 AM
So DM's...how many of you reward roleplaying experience? How much of the experience total is it? And how do you determine how much to give out to whom?

Tengu_temp
2010-10-18, 10:28 AM
I prefer to keep everyone at the same level, so I don't award any RP experience. Instead, when I feel a player does not roleplay enough for my tastes, I give him the David Bowie Is Very Disappointed In You look.

Glimbur
2010-10-18, 10:37 AM
I tend to give roleplaying XP partially to balance out XP gain per character in a given session. My party tends to split up a lot. The other DM's and I are considering changing to a fiat based leveling system. The only issue with that is there's an Artificer, and he might want extra XP for crafting and such. We'll ponder that.

Diarmuid
2010-10-18, 10:41 AM
I think they're a good idea in theory, but in practice they usually just end up skewing the party as one or two players generally seem to end up with the most bonuses and no one likes to fall behind.

Scarey Nerd
2010-10-18, 10:43 AM
I give large amounts of RP exp, because it forces my players to roleplay well if they don't want to be left behind. If I had a particularly poor roleplayer I would keep it even, but I'm blessed in my players.

Beelzebub1111
2010-10-18, 10:45 AM
Thunt (http://www.goblinscomic.com/dungeon-master-tips/) has a good system that I will be adopting soon:

In my games, I awarded 100 xp for talking to NPCs at some length and with some level of in-character conversation. You can see here that The Hummingbird had a couple of conversations.

The 125+100 xp is in two parts. 125 for impressive roleplaying (this goes beyond standard conversations with NPCs) plus 100 for performing a class based action. Since she was a rogue, picking a pocket qualified her for this. If she was a cleric, healing someone’s wounds would have gotten her the XP. This bonus could never be awarded more than once per game and was only given if the action had some kind of beneficial effect. For instance, if a wizard realised that the game would be ending soon and so cast Magic Missile at a tree in an attempt to quickly grab that 100 point bonus, he’d be out of luck.

Quietus
2010-10-18, 10:50 AM
I do give out roleplay experience, generally around 50 XP per character level - roughly 5% of a level in a given night if I feel the player did a good job of keeping focused, stayed on track (in terms of the game, not in terms of "following my railroading"), did something interesting, or was otherwise impressive. It doesn't make a big difference in terms of party balance, because the amounts are relatively low, but when players gain experience essentially for simply playing the game, it encourages them to play more, and be more in-character.

In play-by-post, I'll give more; A CR-appropriate encounter is worth roughly 75 exp per character level, per character, but I'll give 100 or more for a well-played encounter, because it involves putting so much more effort into each individual post, and because PbP moves much slower than tabletop gaming. For important scenes, I'll award even more, like if the PCs need to make a good impression, but have some hindrance (like being dirty violent hobos) to doing so, and they pull it off well - it's not unheard of for me to give out 150 XP/level for situations like this.

bokodasu
2010-10-18, 10:50 AM
I don't in D&D, but I do in other systems. (I think I am going to institute the snack-based bonus my current DM uses, though.)

It just seems easier in chip-based systems - yay, you get a chip right now 'cause you did that awesome thing! As opposed to "you get 100xp at the end of the session, which will have an effect in 4-6 weeks". The immediate reward seems to spur more effort from others at roleplaying, too - they see a chip, they want a chip too! By the time that 100 extra xp makes a difference, nobody remembers why any more - they just notice that Player X who keeps hogging the spotlight is a level above them now.

valadil
2010-10-18, 10:53 AM
I reward good roleplaying. It's something I want to encourage. I want the players to feel that if they're interested in talking about plot, they can do that and still do well in the game. They shouldn't have to pick fights in order to level up.

I usually give out a bonus when the players are acting in character. If they express their PCs opinions and take actions that only that PC would take, they get XP. If they talk to NPCs only long enough to get the infodump, that's not worthy of any bonus.

I give a certain amount of RP XP at each level. It's 10% of the amount required for that level. My players hit 8 at 13000 and will reach 9 at 16500. It's a 3500 point level, so each unit of RP XP is worth 350. This formula was entirely arbitrary, but it's been about right thus far. I want them to appreciate the bonus, but not offset anyone in the group by more than a level.

I also reward XP (same value) when a PC's bakstory comes up in the game. Double the bonus if I use backstory to screw the PCs. This is how I reward players for writing lots of backstory I can use, without attaching an XP result for each page. I also like giving out this XP over the course of the game instead of as a lump sum at character creation.

some guy
2010-10-18, 10:54 AM
This is my method for awarding XP:
1. I usually start with the standard XP according to CR.
2. I add or subtract a certain amount if I think a battle was harder/easier (I don't take lucky/unlucky rolls or smart/dumb player tactics in account with this step.
3. I give a certain amount if the group finished a quest or plotline.
4. I give a certain amount if the group amazed me with roleplaying or other things.

The last three steps are completely arbitrary, I usually look to my players' current xp, if I want them to level a bit faster I give a bit more XP and vice versa. I usually keep the mechanism behind my XP awarding a secret, mostly because there is no real mechanism behind my rewards.

EDIT: I kinda like the XP awards of CoC d20; 300 xp multiplied by the avarage character level, divided by the number of characters, per story goal resolved.

Emmerask
2010-10-18, 11:07 AM
So DM's...how many of you reward roleplaying experience? How much of the experience total is it? And how do you determine how much to give out to whom?

I mostly give out roleplaying xp from time to time if someone really stood out and did some truly great roleplaying. It´s not much but a small bonus just to acknowledge that he or she did great that session :smallwink:

Duke of URL
2010-10-18, 11:08 AM
As noted above, I don't like awarding roleplaying XP because it unbalances the party levels, and skews the game to those who manage to grab the spotlight. Some people are simply better at it than others, and it can break group cohesion if it looks like one or two players are being "favored" by the DM (even if they deserve it, based on stated criteria).

I prefer finding an intangible way to reward good RP. Maybe add a side-quest based on that character's backstory (or the specific player's personal interests) if it won't unduly disrupt the game. Or, in a more light-hearted fashion, my Idiosyncrasies (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57241) system -- distinctive actions/RP get a completely non-tangible but fun bonus.

From the "tangible" side, I'd rather "fudge" rolls by adding extra circumstance modifiers for exceptional RP or cleverness than give extra XP. The whole party benefits, and the extra effort makes that player a little more likely to be the hero, without any serious game balance issues.

Kantolin
2010-10-18, 11:11 AM
Over half of my experience given is 'roleplaying experience', but that's slightly a misnomer - I don't give you mroe experience for roleplaying more, I generally give experience for 'I roleplayed during this evening'. So it becomes more 'every run you get XP' more than anything else, minimizing 'I kill it for XP' sequences.

Godless_Paladin
2010-10-18, 11:13 AM
I'm not a big fan of skewing the XP progression, especially since it can backfire for the people supposedly being rewarded (see "XP is a river"). Besides, my players get all kinds of other rewards for being clever RPers anyways. And my group consists entirely of very clever RPers anyways... I don't need to bribe them.

If you do insist on giving RP rewards, I suggest having a system whereby it is not controlled entirely by the favoritism of the DM. That is to say, you have something like a ballot box where people vote for people who are not themselves as the best RPer than session, or some such thing.

dsmiles
2010-10-18, 11:14 AM
Yes, but my group consists of all relatively talented roleplayers, and I reward their creativity in coming up with imaginative solutions to problems (rather than roleplaying their characters well). They all stay at pretty much the same level (plus or minus 2) so I have no problems there. I do it to encourage more attention to story, than to the 8 1/2" x 11" piece or paper in front of them.

Project_Mayhem
2010-10-18, 11:16 AM
I havent played a game with xp for quite a while now.

I tend to play with rp focused players anyway, so I'd be more likely to try to encourage a non-rp'y character to open up more

shadowkiller
2010-10-18, 11:17 AM
No but I give circumstance bonuses to checks for good RP. One of my favorites is bonuses to bards who actually sing.

Morph Bark
2010-10-18, 11:17 AM
I used to do it in a pair of previous campaigns, but stopped doing so. These days, we go by "whenever seems like a good time to level up, there you go".

Godless_Paladin
2010-10-18, 11:19 AM
No but I give circumstance bonuses to checks for good RP. One of my favorites is bonuses to bards who actually sing.

Ah, I remember writing songs, poems, and so forth for my hobgoblin dirge singer. Good times. Never got a circumstance bonus to anything for it, though. :smallannoyed:

Kylarra
2010-10-18, 11:23 AM
I don't play games with exp in that sense anymore, but since I play mostly WW stuff, they get bonuses for stunts which is kind of like getting roleplaying exp, I guess.

Elfin
2010-10-18, 11:26 AM
Generally, my players tend to do a fair amount of RP, so I usually don't. In one game, though, the party (for various reasons) had quite different levels of XP, and so I resorted to XP awards as a way to help balance things out: and while it worked just fine, in hindsight I think there are probably better ways to deal with a situation like that.

Oracle_Hunter
2010-10-18, 11:33 AM
I think they're a good idea in theory, but in practice they usually just end up skewing the party as one or two players generally seem to end up with the most bonuses and no one likes to fall behind.
QFT.

Individualized rewards in a cooperative game tends to end poorly, particularly when it is tied to Player ability rather than Character ability. Even if it doesn't skew the power levels, it can make the people who don't RP as well feel neglected and resentful towards the DM.

If you want to encourage RP, either design the game to do so (e.g. Bliss Stage) or use IC actions to draw out the reluctant RPers. You'll get better results out of demanding Players "say it in character" than tossing XP around to the drama majors :smalltongue:

Thinker
2010-10-18, 12:19 PM
I don't award roleplaying experience. Instead, I penalize those who don't roleplay enough. If the group can't point to at least one thing that your character did that was both awesome and in-character per hour, you are penalized 10% of your total XP. Yes, characters can delevel this way. It really encourages players to put roleplaying first. After all, that is why we play the game. I also penalize people who don't spend the first round of combat trying to avoid combat by either running or talking their way out of it, even if they were ambushed. Players are playing characters, not caricatures.

Greenish
2010-10-18, 12:23 PM
One of my favorites is bonuses to bards who actually sing.I'm pretty sure I'd get thrown out of the game if I tried. There's no way my voice has positive effects on anyone morale, ever.

Tyndmyr
2010-10-18, 12:27 PM
I use an ad-hoc system, which basically works as follows.

Whenever the other players generally applaud the roleplaying or other actions of one for being generally awesome, appropriate, etc, I give a small XP award. It's typically significantly less than they would earn if the party took out an appropriate encounter for the level.

However, since it's done by general player agreement, there's little worry about favoritism, and the amounts are generally not so much as to be crippling to those who happen to get less for a bit. Players who are not in attendance will not get them, though. Fortunately, xp is a river.

Crow
2010-10-18, 12:28 PM
At the end of our sessions, I give xp based on the quest and encounters, then we go around the table for each character and ask each player how much bonus xp (expressed in a percentage) each character deserves. This bonus xp can vary based on a lot of things, like how effective the character was, to how well the player played their character's emotions and such.

So yeah, we give roleplaying xp, but it is on the opinion of the players as a group.

This also gives the players a hand in determining how quickly they would like to see their characters level up.

Psyx
2010-10-18, 12:34 PM
I think they're a good idea in theory, but in practice they usually just end up skewing the party as one or two players generally seem to end up with the most bonuses and no one likes to fall behind.

They wouldn't fall behind if they roleplayed as well as the best, though...


I always give it. 'Roleplaying game' kind of makes me think it's an important aspect of the hobby...

Oracle_Hunter
2010-10-18, 12:36 PM
So yeah, we give roleplaying xp, but it is on the opinion of the players as a group.
Voting on XP awards is a novel concept to me. It certainly is a way to solve the DM Favoritism problem - though it might introduce unhealthy group dynamics in some parties by shifting the ire of the unrewarded from the DM to the other Players.

Not always, of course - but it might be a problem in more casual / less cohesive groups.

EDIT:
@Psyx - the main problem isn't a lack of RP, really, but a lack of RP that the DM likes. DMs are people, and people have preferences; I might like dramatic RP over comedic RP or vice versa. When the DM starts awarding prizes for RP he is likely to award more of it to Players who know how to please his idiosyncratic taste for RP over those who don't. This can result in the Player who does excellent RP feeling resentful because he isn't getting awarded for things that - in his mind - are just as good as the DM's Pet's RP even if he isn't actively being singled out.

WarKitty
2010-10-18, 12:39 PM
They wouldn't fall behind if they roleplayed as well as the best, though...


I always give it. 'Roleplaying game' kind of makes me think it's an important aspect of the hobby...

You have to have a DM that's paying pretty good attention though, and is very clear on what roleplaying is. The best roleplayer is not always the one that gets the most attention or is the loudest. You can roleplay a quiet, reserved character and do a good job of it, without being in the spotlight a lot. Conversely I've seen a lot of players that "roleplay" by setting things on fire or otherwise causing rampant destruction.

I like the idea of roleplaying experience but in practice I find it very hard to adjudicate. I want to reward getting into the character and staying in it, not being loud and obnoxious. Similarly it also needs to be something that rewards pc's for functioning as part of a group, not trying to take the spotlight for themselves.

Mordrigar
2010-10-18, 12:41 PM
Our DM gives us some charts for role playing bonuses. Each player gives to others experience points between -75 to 75. Of course we give those points hidden. Only DM knows who gives how much. (yes, we you could give a xp penalty too)
We give both for Role Play and Order. So everyone can get -150 to 150 bonus xp from each player. (We have 10 active players)
But the rule is: RP & Order bonus can't be higher than Quest&Combat bonus.

El Dorado
2010-10-18, 01:36 PM
Our DM said that up to half of our XP will be roleplay based. However, this XP will go into a pool and then split to everyone.

Rizeska
2010-10-18, 01:38 PM
I give out RP-ing experience, but it can only make up 10% of the experience needed to get to the next level. The rest they can save for the next level, or spend on various fabulous prizes.

Aron Times
2010-10-18, 01:45 PM
I don't award roleplaying experience. Instead, I penalize those who don't roleplay enough. If the group can't point to at least one thing that your character did that was both awesome and in-character per hour, you are penalized 10% of your total XP. Yes, characters can delevel this way. It really encourages players to put roleplaying first. After all, that is why we play the game. I also penalize people who don't spend the first round of combat trying to avoid combat by either running or talking their way out of it, even if they were ambushed. Players are playing characters, not caricatures.
Basically, you punish your players if they don't fit into your preconceived notions of good roleplaying? People do OOC actions all the time in real life. Perhaps they're having a bad day, or they're simply tired/didn't get enough sleep, or they're sick. And you penalize your players for defending themselves from an ambush? I suppose you expect our troops to try and talk even when the enemy has already opened fire on them?

TaliaJacta
2010-10-18, 02:07 PM
I've been fortunate in my game so far in that my best roleplayers tend to run away from combat, while the worst roleplayers tend to fight more monsters. So, the XP tends to balance itself out.

Besides the game I'm DMing, I'm playing with two DMs at the moment. One gives roleplay experience, the other does not. The game with no roleplay XP has a more balanced party, but I have a lot more fun playing in the game with roleplay XP, because it encourages roleplaying and leads to a more engaging game.

It comes down to what kind of environment you're trying to create.

Comet
2010-10-18, 02:22 PM
I also penalize people who don't spend the first round of combat trying to avoid combat by either running or talking their way out of it, even if they were ambushed. Players are playing characters, not caricatures.

But...but... some of the best roleplaying I have seen (or done) has been with hot blooded fighters (no, that's not a class name, just people who fight) that live to bring evil to the sword. If someone ambushes such a warrior, they shall rue the day!

Of course, if we were playing something other than a fantasy tale of MEN OF DESTINY, I might consider taking the position that negotiation is a virtue. But even then I would make very, very sure that the players are well aware of this preference of mine before the game starts.

Continuing on this note: I would never, ever, use any penalties of any kind in a game. Never. Just no.
We come to a game to have fun. Negative words like "penalty" are the stuff that breaks this notion like a small, fragile twig.
Bonuses are cool, you are basically going "Hey guys, wasn't that an awesome scene? Pete, have some more XP!"
Penalties... are a bit more tricky. "Hey guys, look how bad Pete is at roleplaying! I'm taking your XP away so you'll feel worse than everyone else both in- and out-of-character! Goodbye meaningful contribution, you are now level 1 until you learn to play!"

Sorry, I know that is an unfairly hyperbolic way to put things, but I still think it's true.

Greenish
2010-10-18, 02:24 PM
I suppose you expect our troops to try and talk even when the enemy has already opened fire on them?Well yeah. It's obviously a misunderstanding, it's not like we're at war with anyone. :smalltongue: (In the intertubes, not everyone is from the same country.)

But yeah, in-game, punishing players for not trying the diplomatic solution first, regardless of how inappropriate for the situation, seems both out of place and counterproductive for encouraging RP. I mean, someone might be playing a character that responds to violence with violence as a matter of course.

Tyndmyr
2010-10-18, 02:34 PM
I also penalize people who don't spend the first round of combat trying to avoid combat by either running or talking their way out of it, even if they were ambushed. Players are playing characters, not caricatures.

That seems bad. People ambush me, and Im just going to talk to them? Some character concepts might do this, but certainly not all.

Most characters I have played would feel completely justified in responding violently to an ambush, and many would do so with no attempt to run or talk.

After all, if it's an ambush, talking is probably not that likely to work. They're already hardly friendly. And, if it's a good ambush at all, it's probably difficult to run away from. Plus, you're then leaving the ambushers alive, unpunished, and free to do the same to others. Hardly a good idea if you have the capability to stop them. However, the more time you spend talking/running while they fight, the less likely it is you'll be able to stop them.

Project_Mayhem
2010-10-18, 02:35 PM
I don't award roleplaying experience. Instead, I penalize those who don't roleplay enough. If the group can't point to at least one thing that your character did that was both awesome and in-character per hour, you are penalized 10% of your total XP. Yes, characters can delevel this way. It really encourages players to put roleplaying first. After all, that is why we play the game. I also penalize people who don't spend the first round of combat trying to avoid combat by either running or talking their way out of it, even if they were ambushed. Players are playing characters, not caricatures.

Yeah, this ... sounds like a really terrible idea. First off - not all characters are awesome all the time. Your method punishes the gruff dwarf of few words who sits and listens. For example

And the combat thing makes no sense. No sense at all.

Valameer
2010-10-18, 02:39 PM
I used to hand out small bonuses to players that improved the flow of the game (appropriate roleplaying would count toward this) and small penalties to players that disrupted the flow of the game. Sometimes just being quiet while everyone else got a little rowdy awarded a flow bonus.

I'd just tack the bonuses onto the experience awarded at the end of the session, so it wasn't very confrontational, but some players would sometimes see a difference from other players if they were particularly helpful that session.

That was back when the group had some bad sessions, and got off track a lot. Nowadays everyone roleplays well-enough and no one is too disruptive, so I give the group a slightly bigger "RP bonus" at the end of the session if they played their characters well. It's the same bonus for everyone, cause I've gotten lazy with experience, and I don't like alienating quieter players. But absent players never receive the extra exp.

WarKitty
2010-10-18, 02:40 PM
I like the idea of roleplaying experience - like someone said, it is a roleplaying game. On the other hand, I enjoy playing laid-back, quiet characters. Sometimes even shy or antisocial characters. So I end up in a lot of situations where the in-character thing for me to do...would be to let another character do the talking.

I like the idea of group roleplaying xp. If as a group you did a good job, then everyone who contributed in any way gets the same amount of xp. Sitting back and keeping an eye out constitutes roleplaying if that's what your character would do. Sitting back reading comics does not.

Thinker
2010-10-18, 02:49 PM
But...but... some of the best roleplaying I have seen (or done) has been with hot blooded fighters (no, that's not a class name, just people who fight) that live to bring evil to the sword. If someone ambushes such a warrior, they shall rue the day!

Of course, if we were playing something other than a fantasy tale of MEN OF DESTINY, I might consider taking the position that negotiation is a virtue. But even then I would make very, very sure that the players are well aware of this preference of mine before the game starts.

Continuing on this note: I would never, ever, use any penalties of any kind in a game. Never. Just no.
We come to a game to have fun. Negative words like "penalty" are the stuff that breaks this notion like a small, fragile twig.
Bonuses are cool, you are basically going "Hey guys, wasn't that an awesome scene? Pete, have some more XP!"
Penalties... are a bit more tricky. "Hey guys, look how bad Pete is at roleplaying! I'm taking your XP away so you'll feel worse than everyone else both in- and out-of-character! Goodbye meaningful contribution, you are now level 1 until you learn to play!"

Sorry, I know that is an unfairly hyperbolic way to put things, but I still think it's true.

How else would you keep players in line if you don't punish them? If you don't keep them in check they'll run amok on your story and your world.

Caphi
2010-10-18, 02:50 PM
How else would you keep players in line if you don't punish them? If you don't keep them in check they'll run amok on your story and your world.

Poe strikes again, I see.

Ashiel
2010-10-18, 03:25 PM
I've always awarded XP for good roleplaying or more specifically, social interaction, but the method has been refined over the years.

Currently I've been awarding plot progression and social encounters with XP about equal to an average encounter, which is simply added to the total XP. Players know they are being awarded with XP for their roleplaying because I announce where the XP came from during the game (the fight with goblins, the scene with the elves, when you tricked the guard, etc), and they seem to really like it.

In one online game, the party attacked a lich wizardess who was pretty much invulnerable to them (they were level 13-14 vs a level 15 wizard) and while the party was amazingly well put together, it ended in a bot of a stalemate, with several of the players fleeing early in the combat and then two others leaving due to lich driving them crazy, the fight actually ended with the party's cleric playing a game of chess with the lich because everyone was close to being out of spells and the had been fighting for a very, very long time (at least 20+ rounds).

In this case the plot took a surprising turn (with the cleric and the lich becoming something similar to friends) and the encounter resolved, and thus XP was awarded (even though both sides effectively won or tied).

I find these kinds of things help players get into a slightly different mindset when it comes to roleplaying and encourages it more.

Now, the opposite isn't quite true. I find that choosing to not reward people because they roleplayed poorly isn't the same as rewarding someone for good roleplaying. It tends to make them feel targeted rather than honored. I find "natural selection" to be the key thing here.

The worst kind of roleplaying I typically see are people who act as if the world is just there for them. They lie, cheat, steal, and get into fights because they want experience or feel like it. However, this will generally end up with the player sitting a lot of the game out because they are in jail, killed, or similar. Doubly so with players who attack things head on because they assume it wouldn't be there if it were too difficult.

Really, natural selection helps a lot.

I've been running a game with some undead recently (an old mini-adventure I wrote for a friend, updated for Pathfinder) which involves some rather rough orc zombies wearing fairly heavy armor (splint mail). Big, strong, high armor class, tough as nails zombies (can't move more than 20ft on a charge though), and some players dove into the masses of them swinging their swords and casting their burning hands spells, and then complained it was too hard when the zombies devastated their HP with 1d10+6 greatclubs.

Natural selection works. :smallsmile:

AslanCross
2010-10-18, 04:38 PM
Since I consider major character interaction scenarios ("Convince the elves to join your side") as encounters, I give the entire party XP for accomplishing that.

Individual roleplaying, not really.

Aron Times
2010-10-18, 04:47 PM
How else would you keep players in line if you don't punish them? If you don't keep them in check they'll run amok on your story and your world.
Damn I got trolled.

Should've seen it coming.:smallcool:

LordOMud
2010-10-18, 04:49 PM
Most of my players are only interested in hack n slash, so I give RP XP to anyone who acts in character

Thinker
2010-10-18, 04:50 PM
Damn I got trolled.

Should've seen it coming.:smallcool:

Or not. Your assumptions about my DMing style don't interest me.

Shade Kerrin
2010-10-18, 05:14 PM
I don't really give out any Roleplaying XP, the party's managed to skew their power levels enough without it.

On the other hand, I avoid punishing players who go ahead and Roleplay.

Example, if a character manages to die spectacularly, his new char will get access to the XP of the old, including whatever he would have gained from surviving the challenge

WarKitty
2010-10-18, 05:25 PM
I don't award roleplaying experience. Instead, I penalize those who don't roleplay enough. If the group can't point to at least one thing that your character did that was both awesome and in-character per hour, you are penalized 10% of your total XP. Yes, characters can delevel this way. It really encourages players to put roleplaying first. After all, that is why we play the game. I also penalize people who don't spend the first round of combat trying to avoid combat by either running or talking their way out of it, even if they were ambushed. Players are playing characters, not caricatures.

I would be curious what your definition of "awesome" is. My current character has a specific aversion to drawing attention to herself or using what she'd consider "flashy" magic. She's a druid that spends almost all her time in wildshape as an eagle, and is happy to give off the impression that she's the pet of the party alchemist. Not the type of character that tends to create spectacular moments, but she is a character with a distinct personality that contributes to the party dynamics.

That's my main concern with RP XP. I enjoy playing that type of character, but they don't create many flashy moments or lots of NPC conversations. I'm still roleplaying, but I'm not going to draw the attention to it that a more outgoing character would.

Goudaa
2010-10-18, 05:48 PM
Not everyone has the same idea of what "good/bad" roleplaying is. That much is easy to say.

On the same token, it's easy to tell the players that just analyze dice damage and treat the game like a PC game where NPC's just give a mission that has a blinking light on a mini-map where you slay the baddie and spam space-bar through the flavor text.

In my mind, if you're expecting RP rewards, you've missed the point of the game. RP'ing is the fun of the game to me. I also enjoy combat, don't get me wrong - but creating char personalities and playing them...getting out of your own skin for a few hours once a week is the goal.

Fuzzie Fuzz
2010-10-18, 05:52 PM
No, I don't, but only because I keep all the players at the same level. I'm actually looking for a system to reward good RP without being detrimental to those who find it more difficult. Some of the suggestions in this thread (and others) seem like they'd be useful for this as well. One problem is that any immediate reward will break any RP atmosphere we've generated in said roleplay.

"Ah, but your logic is flawed, for, you see, you are unarmed, and I have a sword."
"You have a sword, yes, but what is a sword but a fancy bit of metal? I am a GOD!"
"Oh, good job. Have [reward]."

PopcornMage
2010-10-18, 06:29 PM
The best RP awards are those that come from the RP.

So if you RP a convincing seduction of the princess, then you can convince her to marry you and become ennobled by her father.

WitchSlayer
2010-10-18, 06:31 PM
If players spend most of the session roleplaying then I award them all a solid amount of experience, I'll occasionally throw a player a throwaway amount of XP like 5 or 10 if I really really enjoy something they say/do though.

Thinker
2010-10-18, 06:35 PM
I would be curious what your definition of "awesome" is. My current character has a specific aversion to drawing attention to herself or using what she'd consider "flashy" magic. She's a druid that spends almost all her time in wildshape as an eagle, and is happy to give off the impression that she's the pet of the party alchemist. Not the type of character that tends to create spectacular moments, but she is a character with a distinct personality that contributes to the party dynamics.

That's my main concern with RP XP. I enjoy playing that type of character, but they don't create many flashy moments or lots of NPC conversations. I'm still roleplaying, but I'm not going to draw the attention to it that a more outgoing character would.

I'd have to see it in action before committing to anything. You don't have to be flashy to be awesome, but you do have to participate. Not participating means you may as well not be there so you will fall behind pretty quickly. Also, if you do things as a bird to get the story off track you will be penalized.

Fuzzie Fuzz
2010-10-18, 06:44 PM
I had a quote by Glimbur in my sig that summed up my feelings on the matter pretty well a while ago:

To me, being in character is fun. I play the game for fun. Therefore, I am rewarded for being in character with fun. No other motivation is necessary.

The system rewards combat by artificially increasing your fighting abilities when you fight, because it doesn't happen intrinsically. If you're interested in roleplaying, it'll be its own reward, as playing your character well will give you bonuses in having an awesome character. Most "roleplay" refers to non-mechanical interaction with the game world. Therefore, having a mechanical bonus seems odd to me.

Urpriest
2010-10-18, 06:59 PM
I find it odd that most people in this thread are assuming "roleplaying XP" means "give more XP to characters whose players roleplay more". I had the impression that the term referred to giving the party experience for overcoming challenges without combat, talking their way past an ogre for instance. Is this usually how the term is used, or am I simply misinformed?

I give XP for overcoming things that I expected to be combat encounters with noncombat means. I don't usually give XP for other types of roleplaying because I have trouble balancing non-combat encounters (except for skill challenges in 4e, those I give XP for).

Greenish
2010-10-18, 07:01 PM
I find it odd that most people in this thread are assuming "roleplaying XP" means "give more XP to characters whose players roleplay more". I had the impression that the term referred to giving the party experience for overcoming challenges without combat, talking their way past an ogre for instance. Is this usually how the term is used, or am I simply misinformed?Encounters award experience by default, even if you don't solve them with combat, I believe.

Fuzzie Fuzz
2010-10-18, 07:03 PM
I find it odd that most people in this thread are assuming "roleplaying XP" means "give more XP to characters whose players roleplay more". I had the impression that the term referred to giving the party experience for overcoming challenges without combat, talking their way past an ogre for instance. Is this usually how the term is used, or am I simply misinformed?

I give XP for overcoming things that I expected to be combat encounters with noncombat means. I don't usually give XP for other types of roleplaying because I have trouble balancing non-combat encounters (except for skill challenges in 4e, those I give XP for).

Ah. I do award XP for bypassing an encounter, however the players do it. If they simply hack'n'slash their way through it they get the same XP as if they use trickery to sneak past it or diplomacy to talk their way out of it. I also use a modified skill challenge, as I find the RAW clunky and hard to work with. Just having them tell them what they do and rolling checks works better, IME. I'll also award XP for these types of challenges.

(I believe the term "RP XP" usually refers to giving extra XP to players who put effort into actually roleplaying in character as much as possible, but I could be wrong.)

Urpriest
2010-10-18, 07:06 PM
Encounters award experience by default, even if you don't solve them with combat, I believe.

Yes, I am aware of this. I just had the impression that the term "roleplaying XP" referred to when this rule was applied.

Greenish
2010-10-18, 07:12 PM
Yes, I am aware of this. I just had the impression that the term "roleplaying XP" referred to when this rule was applied.Ah, I've always thought of "RP XP" as something awarded for acting in character beside the "normal XP" from defeating encounters.

WarKitty
2010-10-18, 07:44 PM
I'd have to see it in action before committing to anything. You don't have to be flashy to be awesome, but you do have to participate. Not participating means you may as well not be there so you will fall behind pretty quickly. Also, if you do things as a bird to get the story off track you will be penalized.

Well, my IC job seems to be the group common sense. I.e. the one to say "no, lighting the tavern on fire is not a good idea." :smalltongue: But she's a designed support character that prefers to have the attention off herself. Hence sitting quietly on the shoulder of one of the party faces while they negotiate, pretending to be a pet.

Of course, we've also had the big group problem. I.e. the cleric and I spent half a session playing games (IC), shooting marbles, and talking religion, while 3 of the other players were off shopping. I don't think the DM noticed.

But yeah it does interest me a bit. Particularly in my groups since we have had to deal with issues of more natural roleplayers upstaging those of us that are slower/less natural. Hard to roleplay when the encounter's moved on by the time you figure out what to do.

sambo.
2010-10-18, 10:31 PM
yup.

i give out oodles of role-playing experience.

it encourages my players to get creative about working out solutions to in-game problems without resorting to tossing a die across the table.

i'll even give out XP for good ideas that ultimatly fail.

you get the best RPXP out of me if you consistently play your chosen character.

eg: if the int 4 BSF barb keeps having genius level ideas*, he gets nowt. if he acts like an int 4 BSF, he gets crapwads of RPXP.

awards can range from ~50XP up to over a thousand depending on the circumstances and how much the player managed to get a good laugh around the table (being funny at my table is A Good Thing(tm))

(*note: for low int types where the player has a great idea, i'll let them make an int/wis check to see if their character came up with the idea. low int types generally pass me a LOT more notes than the high int types.)

Akal Saris
2010-10-18, 11:25 PM
I used to, but I found that it didn't really encourage PCs to RP more, and it caused a little tension among my PCs, so I stopped doing so. However, I do award XP for achieving "story" goals that the party has decided on, which are frequently achieved through RP anyhow.

More and more I find that exp through fiat seems to work best, however.

Zephyros
2010-10-18, 11:48 PM
Why should I be giving awards for something that makes the game better - both for me and the players? I am an enabler as a DM, I ll try and give the players their moments (be them just good or crowning...of awesome) even if the rules disagree a little. I ll not give mechanical advantages to someone that has better dramatical/theatrical skills than the others. Occasionally, I might award good RP with an Action Point, but that's about it.

VirOath
2010-10-19, 12:28 AM
My groups do reward roleplay exp, but it's spread out and divided evenly among the players. Yes, this means that there are times when a player is getting rp-exp just by sitting around and watching it play out, but we enjoy our rp and I see a reason to reward it. And there are always going to be a few encounters where a character is going to be left out and useless, should they get less exp for that?

Not by my logic, all exp is always divided evenly among all players.

Lev
2010-10-19, 12:31 AM
I do adventuring experience, if the players learn things they get XP, if they don't learn things they don't.

There's other systems I put in, but thats the general rule. YOU ARE AN ADVENTURER, ADVENTURE.

ffone
2010-10-19, 03:44 AM
I don't award roleplaying experience. Instead, I penalize those who don't roleplay enough. If the group can't point to at least one thing that your character did that was both awesome and in-character per hour, you are penalized 10% of your total XP. Yes, characters can delevel this way. It really encourages players to put roleplaying first. After all, that is why we play the game. I also penalize people who don't spend the first round of combat trying to avoid combat by either running or talking their way out of it, even if they were ambushed. Players are playing characters, not caricatures.

This is the sort of thing that sounds nice and good-hearted from the comfort of a 21st century living room, and not when you're the one whose life might end in the next 6 seconds.

I give out 'Quest XP' for overcoming nonbattle challenges (which may include nonviolent resolutions to potential combat).

I don't believe in 'roleplaynig XP', which in my experience has the reverse effect of its intent - among players who are half-decent already, it discourages actual roleplaying and encouraging metagame "what sort of personality will the DM like?" roleplaying. If you give out more XP to the PC who acts like the party leader...suddenly you have every PC trying to be the leader. And so on.

I also don't like PC-specific XP for things like skill usage. Sure, it sounds nice, but it's unbalancing - if you're not giving fighters more XP than rogues for battles, rogues are going to have more out of combat skill usage, so you're slanting things. And you incentive PCs to needlessly try to 'throws' their skills at everything.

Basically, if you want realistic roleplaying, you should align the players' incentives with the PCs' - the rewards should be for the things that yu want the PCs to be trying to accomplish, like completing quests. If you give XP based on *how* they do it, not *what* they do, you're essentially asking for metagaming. And DMs who do this are usually projecting their own quasipolitical worldview onto the game (like their personal feelings on violet vs nonviolent resolution, and personality types, etc.) I've seen several DMs essentially use roleplaying XP to vent their own RL issues with their own perception of Lawful Good types.

Greenish
2010-10-19, 07:46 PM
This (http://www.goblinscomic.com/01202007/) is what I immediately thought of when I read the title of the thread. I meant to link it earlier, but I got distracted. :smallwink:

JadedDM
2010-10-19, 09:34 PM
I do give roleplaying XP. Quite a bit, actually, when the player does a good job. I have an entire system just for that, from everything to character development to interaction.

And since we play 2E, nobody cares if everyone's XP is exactly the same. The paladin can have 29,000 XP and the cleric can have 15,000 XP and they'll still be the same level.

Aotrs Commander
2010-10-20, 06:49 AM
I used to award XP for specific instances of good roleplaying. Now, as I have become too lazy to rack seperate XP (and it never really made much of a difference), I either award bonus XP to the entire party or use some other sort of thing, like a fate point or something for very noteworthy roleplaying (or solving a puzzle or making a really funny (IC) joke; if you can dissolve the DM into tears of (non-hysterical) laughter, the party deserves some bonuses.)

I tend to award only half XP for combat anyway, though (excepting boss fights, where they kind of have to earn it!); but I do award story XP and other non-combat related XP. (E.g., as in Pathfinder's ad hoc XP for roleplaying past an encounter being the same as the combat one.)

Basically, I now treat the XP more like it is in the computer games.

dsmiles
2010-10-20, 06:53 AM
or making a really funny (IC) joke; if you can dissolve the DM into tears of (non-hysterical) laughter, the party deserves some bonuses.)

I have a separate 'Grace of the Gods' pool for making me squirt <insert beverage here> out of my nose. It can be used to get the party out of a tight squeeze. However, if somebody calls on the Grace of the Gods when the pool is empty, they call down the Wrath of the Gods instead. It makes for some tense moments in play.

Maho-Tsukai
2010-10-20, 08:29 AM
Yes. Especially since most of my games have heavy RP element. Heck, my very first games I DMed where practically freeform except in certain situations when crunch was needed. Those games where more or less just freeform games with occasional crunch here and there rather then an actual 3.5e game, but that's because I was a forum RPer before I started tabletop and the kind of "RPGs" I where used to where freeform, forum based RPs based on certain animes(I spent most of my time on ygo RP forums so yeah.) Since 3.5e was taught to me by my first crush when I was in middle school, my early DMing days borrowed a lot from the freeform RPing world and I would be really hard pressed to consider those games actual rounds of 3.5e...but none the less they started me on a pattern of rewarding good RP that I keep to this day...

I find that while combat encounters are nice and all, some players naturally gravitate more to RP then crunch, which is understandable. Thus, I find rewarding RP can sometimes be necessary, since the more RP focused members of the group may be inclined to take underpowered options for RP's sake.(Something I am guilty of myself...I've played a True Necromancer.(Though in my defense it was ruled to increase divine and arcane casting at every level rather then most levels with a few odd levels only boosting one site...this meant that the TN got 9ths and got on BOTH sides...though that dose not happen until level 20.) Thus, many RPers may not have the best combat characters and RPing XP is needed.

I go beyond the minimum, though, and actually try and encourage good RPing with XP. I occasionally will pull crazy stuff like rewarding players with XP if they say their character's "lines" in a voice they think sounds at least somewhat like their character. Or giving bonuses to rolls and even spell DCs(Responsibly of course, and very rarely) for cool descriptions of attacks and spells. Of course RPing itself may gain you a good chunk of XP provided you do it well, and depending on the game having a good, well thought out backstory(Especially in high level games when characters would have a significant history behind them being high level and all.) may reap you some extra benefits.

Tharck
2010-10-20, 09:31 AM
When someone does something in character, or role-plays I give a tally to them which is kept secret. At the end of the session I give 50xp to that player per tally. Generally its around 200-300 xp for everyone at the end of the night.

It's not the best system, more of a nod for people trying to RP. Like a cute Eruopean girl kissing you on the cheek. It might not be because she likes you, but it might be.

Dimers
2010-10-20, 11:41 PM
I award experience for improved roleplaying, not good roleplaying. That way the people who aren't great at it can still benefit if they try, and the natural-born actors don't get a free ride. I also tend to reward staying in character despite knowing OOC that it'd cause that character trouble to do so. (I can do this safely because PCs who constantly want trouble quickly acquire more than they can handle.)

Also, RP tends to be important in my campaigns because it's often required for advancing or training in certain abilities.

Knaight
2010-10-21, 12:01 AM
Roleplaying is its own reward, I don't give XP for it. I also don't give XP for combat, though I don't play D&D in the first place. Experience has been carefully built in as a naturally growing process, and stays that way.

That said, extremely exceptional roleplay might get the equivalent of an action point. Its not much, but it is an indicator of appreciation, and it shows up a few times per campaign.

Sir_Chivalry
2010-10-21, 12:59 AM
I don't award roleplaying experience (okay, lies, I do, 50xp of it, more as a gold star than anything)

What I do, is if someone roleplays well, plays their character well, does things in character even if those things aren't too smart, I reward them in game.

Example:

I have a player, fairly new, who is playing an Elven Shadowbane Inquisitor. Her character is the scion of a recently destroyed royal bloodline, and must balance her chaotic nature as an elf, her new found sense of anger and thirst for justice from survivor's guilt, and the codes and strictures of the Order, especially one as ruthless and utilitarian as the Order of Illumination.

She meets with a far superiour officer (also elven) in the main capital of the Order's power. This officer will not provide help with fighting a powerful anti-villain just outside the city walls, on the grounds that this threat is only a threat based on what he might do, not what he is doing. Attacking him unprovoked could result in countless deaths.

She stands there and tells him that she can see from his mantle and various medals (Knowledge (nobility) check) that he previously was in the service of her father the king, and that she is now not requesting the aid, but ordering it as the only living heir of his sovereign. He refuses again, unamused.

That in and of itself was fun for the player, but also, aid did come eventually, from a counter-government group called the Lions, whose commander personally subdued the threat outside the walls, impressed and moved by the paladin's determination to do the right thing.

bokodasu
2010-10-21, 07:39 AM
Hm, I just put two things together.

1) I don't believe that RPXP actually encourages role-playing in D&D*. The only things I've ever seen it do are encourage the loudmouths to monopolize the RP action and get the quieter players to act stupid, because that's the way to get noticed. This may not be true of all groups, but I've never seen it work well enough to bother investigating further.

2) My current DM has been experimenting with granting in-game bonuses INSTEAD of XP (player's choice). They're not as mechanically good as leveling up**, and they're not exactly RP dependent, since our campaign is 99.9% combat, but they are unique and tailored to the characters as we play them. And in every instance they've been offered so far, every player has taken them instead of the XP. I think this means something, but I don't have enough experience with it yet to say exactly what. It is definitely more work for the GM, because they have to come up with non-game-breaking abilities uniquely tailored to the PCs, but everyone seems to like it and, for as little "roleplaying" as goes on in our game, it seems to be making the characters stand out more as people.

Hm, thinking about it, once I had a quiet player who always played shadowy-hooded rogues, and he won a magic coin that would always reappear in his pocket 1d4 hours after it left his possession. He suddenly started getting into character as a con-man and grifter, and it was both hilarious and really good for his RP abilities. And that was basically a nothing reward.

Now I'm thinking this is something I need to investigate further; I'd like to know if anyone else has tried something similar, and how it worked for them.

--
*I have seen it work poorly in oWoD and well in chip-based systems. Beyond that, I can't comment.

**Some of them are actively detrimental. Go ahead, as me about my 12th-level druid who's slowly dying of poison. I still pick the bonuses instead of the XP.

Leon
2010-10-21, 07:57 AM
I used to but found that some people would be getting greatly ahead over the ones who didnt at all.

These days i decide when the group as a whole is going to advance in level, if i leave it a lil long im sure i'll be reminded by one of them who's been keeping track of roughly what they have been earning.

Project_Mayhem
2010-10-21, 08:12 AM
I award experience for improved roleplaying, not good roleplaying. That way the people who aren't great at it can still benefit if they try, and the natural-born actors don't get a free ride. I also tend to reward staying in character despite knowing OOC that it'd cause that character trouble to do so. (I can do this safely because PCs who constantly want trouble quickly acquire more than they can handle.)

Also, RP tends to be important in my campaigns because it's often required for advancing or training in certain abilities.

That's a better idea.

I just realised last night how spoiled I've been with DMs who are into RP. I was just signing up for a Dark Heresy campaign, when the DM told us that he didn't like the idea of speaking and acting in character, wouldn't really be doing it, and would prefer for us not to do it really. He spent a large proportion of the conversion saying things like 'I'd want to play 'x', because they are really powerful'

Uggh.

Earthwalker
2010-10-21, 10:03 AM
I used to award roleplay xp or extra Karma for staying in character.
I soon stopped doing that for alot of the reason already discussed.

With some systems I award chips, or points or other in game rewards for good role play. Never award what is needed to advance for it, as people have said role playing is it;s own reward.

dsmiles
2010-10-21, 11:11 AM
I used to award roleplay xp or extra Karma for staying in character.
I soon stopped doing that for alot of the reason already discussed.

With some systems I award chips, or points or other in game rewards for good role play. Never award what is needed to advance for it, as people have said role playing is it;s own reward.

:smalleek:
Karma? As in old school Marvel Superheroes karma? Wow. I didn't know there were so many of us 'old guys' on here.

Project_Mayhem
2010-10-21, 11:21 AM
Shadowrun more likely

dsmiles
2010-10-21, 11:22 AM
Shadowrun more likely

See? Now you've gone and ruined my vision of a bunch of old engineers sneaking posts during office hours. :smallwink:

ffone
2010-10-21, 12:48 PM
Hm, I just put two things together.

1) I don't believe that RPXP actually encourages role-playing in D&D*. The only things I've ever seen it do are encourage the loudmouths to monopolize the RP action and get the quieter players to act stupid, because that's the way to get noticed. This may not be true of all groups, but I've never seen it work well enough to bother investigating further.


This is my experience. It's like everything else we know about human behavior from economics and such:

- If the DM thinks 'party leadership' is good roleplaying and merits XP, suddenly you have a bunch of alpha (fe)male PCs.

- If the DM thinks a Deep (i.e. 'Tragic') Motivating Backstory is good roleplaying, suddenly you have a bunch of angsty, brooding PCs whining about their traumatic childhood.

- If the DM rewards out-of-combat skill usage (in a non pooled way rather than just using CRs like traps have for full-party XP), the rogue laughs all the way to the bank while the fighter tries to climb everything in sight.

Some players will do these things *well*, but it's still metagaming as soon as you do it for XP (well, the third is in-character practice arguably) rather than actual roleplaying.

JonestheSpy
2010-10-21, 12:59 PM
I tend to do so when players do something particularly clever or funny that's still consistent with their character.

bokodasu
2010-10-21, 01:06 PM
- If the DM rewards out-of-combat skill usage (in a non pooled way rather than just using CRs like traps have for full-party XP), the rogue laughs all the way to the bank while the fighter tries to climb everything in sight.

Heh - this reminds me of playing Morrowind and jumping everywhere because that's how you built up your acrobatic skill. Ok, that's fine for a video game, but I don't want my players doing that at the table. (They might spill the drinks.)