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Thrawn4
2010-10-18, 11:49 AM
Hello playgrounders.
I'm currently planning a Vampire: The Masquerade campaign with a couple of fellow students. Nice, mature guys I have known for several month. The only problem is that I don't know whether the plot might disturb them. It was originally designed for my default group whose reaction I can anticipate.

The Plot:During the course of the campaign, a friend (NPC) of the characters is going to be infected by a blood disease, to be more specific, HIV. Inevitably, she will suffer and die.

Another problem is that the whole campaign would resolve around a malkavian doctor who is experimenting on blood disease, so it's difficult to change the plot. What do you thing? Should I give it a try? Or is this topic to serious? (I wouldn't focus on it, but it's an important link through the campaign.)

Telonius
2010-10-18, 11:56 AM
My usual guideline... if you have to ask here, you ought to ask the players before you spring it on them. Maybe not about the plot point specifically, but generally about real-world disease, what they're willing to have happen to their characters, things like that.

If the answer is "No," have it be a newly-engineered bloodborne version of the Black Plague instead. Serves the same purpose, without as much of the real-world squick.

Engine
2010-10-18, 11:57 AM
Probably not. Personally I avoid three great themes with people I don't know too well: Sex, Religion & Politics.

Anyway, talk to them. Ask them what they consider disturbing in a game, so you could avoid those themes in your campaign.

AtwasAwamps
2010-10-18, 11:58 AM
Make up a disease.

I know that V;tM and other White Wolf games need to be realistic but honestly, make up a disease and you avoid all possible sensitivity issues here.

Moriato
2010-10-18, 12:07 PM
Make up a disease.

I know that V;tM and other White Wolf games need to be realistic but honestly, make up a disease and you avoid all possible sensitivity issues here.

This. Alternatively, find an obscure disease that no one is the group is likely to have had personal experience with. There's enough deadly diseases out there to choose from, no point risking offense (not that the idea is really offensive, but people tend to be overly sensitive about these sorts of things so... yeah, best to just avoid it).

mucat
2010-10-18, 12:16 PM
During the course of the campaign, a friend (NPC) of the characters is going to be infected by a blood disease, to be more specific, HIV. Inevitably, she will suffer and die.

Why "inevitably"? Is this a plot-related super strain of HIV, or does she have unusual physiology that makes her especially vulnerable?

If the campaign is set in 2010, and she's a typical human with normal HIV and access to good medical care, then it's a chronic condition that she could be living with for decades. If it's set in 1985, her outlook would be more grim. :smallfrown:

So if you do want their friend to deteriorate quickly for lot purposes, then it might be best to do as Atwas suggests: use a fictional blood disease, perhaps invented by that Malkavian doctor. Then its prognosis can be whatever your plot requires. Plus, if you decide the campaign is getting too dark and the players would enjoy it more if they could save their friend, you can let them use the bad guy's own research to devise a cure, and act as if that were the plan all along. :smallsmile:

Thrawn4
2010-10-18, 12:36 PM
Well, to be more precise, it's going to be a special disease created by the doctor using HIV as a basis. I guess I could rename it and just mention similar symptoms. That might help. Thanks a lot.
In the very end, they will be able to choose whether they want to save their friend or whether they are using the results of the experiment to save thousands of people.
(Strange that a single disease victim can cause trouble while slicing people with a sword is not a problem at all - guess the latter one is too unreal to be a concern)

valadil
2010-10-18, 12:46 PM
Without knowing your audience it would be hard to say. I wouldn't be offended by such a plot. My opinion might be different if I had any friends with HIV.

mucat
2010-10-18, 12:58 PM
In the very end, they will be able to choose whether they want to save their friend or whether they are using the results of the experiment to save thousands of people.
I wouldn't advise planning specific plot details like that ahead of time. It seems like a lot of things would have to happen in a precise order, to leave them with those two clear options and no chance of a third...which in turn seems pretty strongly railroaded. I could be wrong, of course; I know almost nothing about the actual situation in your game world, and maybe there's some impossible-to-circumvent reason why the players will inevitably have to make that choice. But if it's a matter of "they will break into his lab with just enough time left to do one or the other," then you're leaving no room for the players to come up with a different plan.

Plus, in this case, you might want a "sliding scale of darkness." If the players start to find the campaign too disturbing to be fun, you can tweak the situation so that they have more power to make things better. If they like hanging on for dear life as the world slides toward inevitable doom, then you can make it harder for them to change the big picture, and force them to concentrate on individual survival.


(Strange that a single disease victim can cause trouble while slicing people with a sword is not a problem at all - guess the latter one is too unreal to be a concern)
Yeah; the chances that a player just lost a loved one to a broadsword attack are usually pretty slim. :smallwink:

Ravens_cry
2010-10-18, 01:06 PM
*smooth mature alto with a sad piano solo in the background*
Thousands of people every year receive Broadsword Related Incidents and don't know, potentially passing on this troubling condition to others without thier knowledge. Remember, if you have encountered a broadsword or are in contact with someone who has, use protection when engaging in activities that could result in your exposure to Broadsword Related Incidents.
Broadsword Related Incidents; It's Everyone's Problem.
Paid for by the National Broadsword Related Incidents Institute

mucat
2010-10-18, 01:09 PM
*smooth mature alto with a sad piano solo in the background*
Thousands of people every year receive Broadsword Related Incidents and don't know, potentially passing on this troubling condition to others without thier knowledge. Remember, if you have encountered a broadsword or are in contact with someone who has, use protection when engaging in activities that could result in your exposure to Broadsword Related Incidents.
Broadsword Related Incidents; It's Everyone's Problem.
Paid for by the National Broadsword Related Incidents Institute
You, sir or madam, are awesome.

PopcornMage
2010-10-18, 01:09 PM
What do you thing? Should I give it a try? Or is this topic to serious? (I wouldn't focus on it, but it's an important link through the campaign.)

I actually know of a LARP game that ran with an idea like this. Over a decade ago. So it's not like you're treading new untouched ground here. There was even a South Park episode about it

Could it be your players might get upset over it? Sure, so I'd talk to them first if you're concerned.

Killer Angel
2010-10-18, 01:15 PM
I would'nt find it "disturbing", but not so much interesting.
Obviously, it's personal, and a thing like this, must be judged only by the players involved


have it be a newly-engineered bloodborne version of the Black Plague instead. Serves the same purpose, without as much of the real-world squick.

THIS, I find interesting. A thousand times this! :smallbiggrin:

Ravens_cry
2010-10-18, 01:30 PM
You, sir or madam, are awesome.
We aim to please.:smalltongue:

dsmiles
2010-10-19, 04:53 AM
We aim to please.:smalltongue:

At least it wasn't an Old Spice ad...:smalltongue:

NeoRetribution
2010-10-19, 05:11 AM
The question, as I understand it, is, "I've talked to a bunch of friends and they want to play a game about vampire characters who kill, drink blood, and pretend to be other people so is it too disturbing to add a sanguinely or sexually transmitted retrovirus?"

Yes, ask your players. Be subtle if you want, but know their opinions before it shows up in the game.

FelixG
2010-10-19, 05:21 AM
I wouldn't see it being any issue...Unless someone they know (or they themselves have it) then it would be in bad taste

Ravens_cry
2010-10-19, 05:44 AM
At least it wasn't an Old Spice ad...:smalltongue:
I love those ads, I do, but parodying them just wouldn't have fit the kind of ludicrousness I was going for.:smallamused:

PopcornMage
2010-10-19, 06:01 AM
I wouldn't see it being any issue...Unless someone they know (or they themselves have it) then it would be in bad taste

Some people might think it's in bad taste regardless.

AIDs isn't an example for me, but I can see it being so for others people and for me, other subjects.

Yuki Akuma
2010-10-19, 06:06 AM
The question, as I understand it, is, "I've talked to a bunch of friends and they want to play a game about vampire characters who kill, drink blood, and pretend to be other people so is it too disturbing to add a sanguinely or sexually transmitted retrovirus?"

Yes, ask your players. Be subtle if you want, but know their opinions before it shows up in the game.



Real people don't lose friends and loved ones to vampire attacks.

Calmar
2010-10-19, 07:08 AM
Make up a disease.

I know that V;tM and other White Wolf games need to be realistic but honestly, make up a disease and you avoid all possible sensitivity issues here.

I agree that this probably is the best solution. Besides, in the real world new diseases are researched as well, so it wouldn't be ridiculous as long as you are not too inventive. :smallwink:

panaikhan
2010-10-19, 07:52 AM
*smooth mature alto with a sad piano solo in the background*
Thousands of people every year receive Broadsword Related Incidents and don't know, potentially passing on this troubling condition to others without thier knowledge. Remember, if you have encountered a broadsword or are in contact with someone who has, use protection when engaging in activities that could result in your exposure to Broadsword Related Incidents.
Broadsword Related Incidents; It's Everyone's Problem.
Paid for by the National Broadsword Related Incidents Institute

Sheer awsomeness. If it wasn't so long, I'd love to sig it...