View Full Version : Dipping with a Cleric

2010-10-18, 11:58 AM
Hey All,

I am currently in a two player party using D&D 3.5 rules in an angelic/demonic themed campaign (we started at level 1). Right now my character is a 4th Level Lawful Good Cleric (law and healing domains) Human Half-Celestial (Str 17, Con 19, Dex 13, Int 17, Wis 22, Chr 18). The other player is a new to D&D and is running a 4th level half-orc half celestial. With just two of us facetime as the party spokes man is very frequent so I run maxed Spellcraft, Diplomacy, Concentration, with a little Heal and random Knowledges. The DM has been very open to any supplements we want to run but only has access to the core rules himself. I picked up a copy of complete divine and he has OK'd everything from it so far. My friends have copies of some of the other books, but I am not sure where to look next for Cleric stuff. My current feats are combat spellcasting and spell penetration. I am saving my third level feat until I can figure out where I want my character to go.

My question to the board is about the idea of dipping away from Cleric for a level or two. I have read a bit on how to min/max Clerics, however since the other party member probably won't min/max his Barbarian (still trying to convince him to go Fighter for two levels just for feats), I am trying to avoid simply going Cleric 20. My idea was to maybe dip into Fighter for two levels myself to pick up weapon prof and two feats and then run Church Inquisitor before coming back to Cleric. Does anyone have experience with Fighter dipping with Clerics? What feats to take in particular would be helpful.

2010-10-18, 12:15 PM
dipping with a cleric is fine as long as u dont lose caster level, so PrC like Ordained Champions is always nice, eldrich knight is fine too, for healbot theme Radiant servant of pelor is awesome and get some nice features against undeads.

lose CL really really hurts a healbot.

Keld Denar
2010-10-18, 12:15 PM
I wouldn't dip Fighter on a cleric. Too much lost. If you really don't mind losing caster levels, look at the Ordained Champion PrC in Complete Champion. Its a lawful geared PrC dedicated to Heironeous or Hextor (assuming those gods exist in your setting, otherwise substitute relevant LG and LE gods). Its only 5 levels long, has 3/5 casting, and has a TON of really cool abilities that range from using TU attempts to smite people, the War domain as a bonus domain along with spontaneous casting from the War domain, the ability to gain limited DR for burning TU attempts, and a Channel Spell ability similar to what a Duskblade gets.

Thats well worth the loss of 2 caster levels. Fighter2 is generally not.

CChampion also has a couple feats to pair up with that. Holy Warrior gives you +X damage on all attacks, where X is the highest level War domain spell you have memorized and unused. Awesome Smite gives you the choice of one of 3 abilities when you smite. You can knock foes down (with a trip attempt), completely ignore concealment (no miss chance), or completely ignore DR when resolving the smite attack. Since Ordained Champion gives you a smite you can use fairly often, this is VERY nice.

Other good cleric PrCs are Divine Oracle (CDiv), Sacred Exorcist (CDiv), Paragnostic Apostle (CChamp), Church Inqusitor (CDiv), and Contemplative (CDiv). You don't really qualify for Radiant Servant due to your domain choices. The rest should be no problem though.

2010-10-18, 12:31 PM
Three levels of Prestige Paladin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigePaladin) might be cool. Divine Grace is the main feature, but you'll also gain a handful of other stuff, such as access to paladin-only spells.

Though you'll want to be careful if going for face-smashing, because that's the barbarian's entire shtick, and you don't want to upstage him.

2010-10-18, 01:02 PM
Three levels of Prestige Paladin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigePaladin) might be cool. Divine Grace is the main feature, but you'll also gain a handful of other stuff, such as access to paladin-only spells.

Prestige Paladin would be better if it didn't (almost) require a dip in Fighter to meet the "Ride 4" and "Mounted Combat Feat" requirements.
Yes, Divine Grace is awesome, but losing 2 caster levels to get it doesn't quite seem worth it.
Since he is in a 2-person-party, I'd recommend against dipping towards melee.
Currently they have a Divine caster and a meat shield fighting guy. So if he dips anywhere it should be towards either Skill Monkey, or Arcane Caster, in order to help shore up weaknesses.

Keld Denar
2010-10-18, 02:29 PM
Another thing to note:

Melee classes are modular. Your main stats are BAB and HP. You can get these from most classes. Even 3-4 levels of Rogue on a primarily Fighter chassis loses you 1 BAB and a couple HP, but still gives you MOST of what you want with cool new features. Similarly, dipping Barbarian, Ranger, Knight, Duskblade, etc all give you the tools you need. Thus, many melee builds tend to be a patchwork of various base classes and PrCs, taking the best elements of each and blending them together into a more seamless being.

Casters are more linear. Their main ability is casting. No base classes other than your main base class give you more casting. PrCs are generally selected based on how much more casting they give you, but casting is still the primary concern. Thus, most casters are build with one base class and muliple PrCs (except of course if the PrCs desires "blend" casting with noncasting, such as Eldritch Knight of Arcane Trickster, or even Mystic Theurge).

So, while your friend can benefit from a 2 level investment in Fighter, you as a caster, not so much.