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Cogidubnus
2010-10-18, 01:36 PM
That's right, I'm still thinking about this character. I'd like two things:

1) Arcane prestige classes that grant bonus feats and, at least for the first couple of levels, progress spells/day.

2) Prestige classes that grant bonus magic feats, but don't necessarily advance spells/day (for after 20th level).

Psyren
2010-10-18, 01:45 PM
Do you count free feats as "bonus feats?"

For instance, Exalted Arcanist and Malconvoker both get free metamagic feats.

Do you also count "functional feats?" For instance, Blood Magus effectively gets Eschew Materials and Brew Potion for free, just with a twist. (That specific example might be bad though, as you need to waste two feats to enter the class.)

Cogidubnus
2010-10-18, 01:46 PM
Do you count free feats as "bonus feats?"

For instance, Exalted Arcanist and Malconvoker both get free metamagic feats.

Do you also count "functional feats?" For instance, Blood Magus effectively gets Eschew Materials and Brew Potion for free, just with a twist. (That specific example might be bad though, as you need to waste two feats to enter the class.)

Exalted Arcanist and Malconvoker sound good...I'm just looking for a way to get extra metamagic, really.

lsfreak
2010-10-18, 01:47 PM
Off the top of my head, you've got Incantatrix that gives feats of certain kinds, Archmage that replicates feats, and Ultimate Magus as a theurge-type with a couple bonus feats.

Kalaska'Agathas
2010-10-18, 02:00 PM
Exalted Arcanist and Malconvoker sound good...I'm just looking for a way to get extra metamagic, really.

Incantatrix (Player's Guide to Faerun, pg. 61) sounds just about perfect for you. Bonus Metamagic feats at 1, 4, 7, and 10, increased ways to use your Metamagic feats, and 10/10 casting.

Psyren
2010-10-18, 02:01 PM
It's also hideously broken and banned at most gaming tables.

Aron Times
2010-10-18, 02:13 PM
Yeah, Incantatrix is something that you shouldn't actually spring on your DM.

I recommend the Swiftblade from the Complete Mage web enhancement and the Abjurant Champion (also from Complete Mage). My favored build is Stalwart Sorcerer 6/Swiftblade 10/Abjurant Champion 4.

Tyndmyr
2010-10-18, 02:16 PM
Master Specialist. Requires feat investment, but gives some back, and is enterable early.

Loremaster actually does give a bonus feat, as well as feat-bonus equivalents. Again, investment to get in, but the overall trade isn't bad.

Eloel
2010-10-18, 02:20 PM
Shadow Adept (or smt like that) from FRCS gives 3 free feats at L1. If you're an illusionist anyway, you'll likely have most of the prereqs.

Thurbane
2010-10-20, 10:40 PM
Human Paragon (bonus feat, 2/3 casting) and Half-elf Paragon (bonus feat, 1/3 casting)...

Andion Isurand
2010-10-20, 10:47 PM
War Wizard of Cormyr and Spellguard of Silverymoon grant bonus metamagic feats

I'd also recommend a 1 level dip in Cloistered Cleric after level 20 to gain domain related abilities/feats, and possibly choose cleric-related flaws like Divine Gestures (like arcane failure but for your divine spells) to gain more feats that way.

If you are an elven Loremaster, I'd recommend you get Iron Will via the Otyugh Pit in Complete Scoundrel... and then get 1 level of Olin Gisir for another bonus metamagic feat

I'd also look at the Bardic Knack variant (PH2 35)

kestrel404
2010-10-21, 11:46 AM
Mage of the Arcane Order (CArc), 10/10 casting, bonus metamagic at 9
Magical Trickster (CSco) 2/3 casting, bonus metamagic at 2
Ultimate Magus (CMage) 17/10 casting*, bonus feats at 5 and 9

* Ultimate magus advances the 'lowest caster level' 10/10, and the other one 7/10 for prepared and spontaneous arcane casting. You can use shenanigans to make sure it's always the one you want, though. Especially nice for this is Sublime Chord, a spontaneous casting prestige class that sets all arcane caster levels to the same value - so you always get to choose!.

Toptomcat
2010-10-21, 11:55 AM
Doubleplus on Loremaster, especially since it appears from the wording that you don't actually have to qualify for the bonus feats you get. 'Any one feat' is pretty unambiguously broad.

Duke of URL
2010-10-21, 11:57 AM
Alienist (CArc) provides a couple of bonus feats, IIRC.

Edit: yep. Bonus metamagic feats at 3rd and 7th. Like Loremaster, it also fails to specify that you must meet the feat's prerequisites.

lsfreak
2010-10-21, 12:01 PM
Doubleplus on Loremaster, especially since it appears from the wording that you don't actually have to qualify for the bonus feats you get. 'Any one feat' is pretty unambiguously broad.

It doesn't work like that. You have to qualify for every feat you take. Any exceptions are specifically called out as exceptions.

I dislike Loremaster when the goal is metamagic feats, as you're eating up a feat just to get in in the first place.

Duke of URL
2010-10-21, 12:04 PM
I dislike Loremaster when the goal is metamagic feats, as you're eating up a feat just to get in in the first place.

Loremaster is best if you already take the prerequisites for other reasons. For example, dipping 1 level of Divine Oracle requires Skill Focus (Knowledge (religion)), which just happens to also satisfy part of the Loremaster requirements. (And three metamagic or item creation feats shouldn't be a real problem for someone already stocking up on metamagic feats.)

Ozymandias9
2010-10-21, 12:09 PM
Exalted Arcanist and Malconvoker sound good...I'm just looking for a way to get extra metamagic, really.

If you don't mind the candle requirement, Candle Caster will get you lots of them. But then you're essentially a scroll *^@$!.

Toptomcat
2010-10-21, 12:30 PM
It doesn't work like that. You have to qualify for every feat you take. Any exceptions are specifically called out as exceptions.

I dislike Loremaster when the goal is metamagic feats, as you're eating up a feat just to get in in the first place.

Then why do the descriptions for both the fighter and the wizard's bonus feats devote verbiage to explaining that you still have to qualify for them? If the default to which any exceptions must be specifically called out were that you don't have to qualify for your bonus feats, then that makes sense, but not if it's the other way around.

lsfreak
2010-10-21, 12:33 PM
Then why do the descriptions for both the fighter and the wizard's bonus feats devote verbiage to explaining that you still have to qualify for them? If the default to which any exceptions must be specifically called out were that you don't have to qualify for your bonus feats, then that makes sense, but not if it's the other way around.

The default is that you have to have the requirements before taking the feat. The text in the fighter's description, for example, is restatement of the general rule for clarification reasons.
The general rule, as found under the feats section, is:

Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he or she gains the prerequisite.
Nothing about the Loremaster overwrites those requirements, as a ranger's or monk's bonus feats do, and thus the general rule still applies.

Swooper
2010-10-21, 12:51 PM
Eldritch Knight gives a bonus feat at 1st level, advances spellcasting at levels 2-10 and costs you a crappy prereq feat. In effect, it can be used to delay a feat choice until you can qualify for what you really want. Which is terrible PrC design if you ask me, but hey... :smallsigh:

herrhauptmann
2010-10-21, 01:19 PM
Then why do the descriptions for both the fighter and the wizard's bonus feats devote verbiage to explaining that you still have to qualify for them? If the default to which any exceptions must be specifically called out were that you don't have to qualify for your bonus feats, then that makes sense, but not if it's the other way around.
I'd swear i was having this discussion with someone else regarding rogue bonus feats early this week, and that I saw it pop up elsewhere last week. Where are people getting these ideas that you can avoid prereqs with bonus feats?
Ranger (two weapon fighting), and Abj Champ (extend and swift for abjurations) are two ways to gain feats without meeting the prereqs. But they specifically state that they are exceptions to the rule.


Eldritch Knight gives a bonus feat at 1st level, advances spellcasting at levels 2-10 and costs you a crappy prereq feat. In effect, it can be used to delay a feat choice until you can qualify for what you really want. Which is terrible PrC design if you ask me, but hey... :smallsigh:

EK doesn't require a feat (Knight Phantom does) Unless you're counting the militia feat so you can avoid multiclassing to a warrior.

Duke of URL
2010-10-21, 01:34 PM
The default is that you have to have the requirements before taking the feat. The text in the fighter's description, for example, is restatement of the general rule for clarification reasons.

Nothing about the Loremaster overwrites those requirements, as a ranger's or monk's bonus feats do, and thus the general rule still applies.

Of course, they could always rule that they can get the feat, but then if they don't meet the requirements, they can't use the feat (or any other feat with that feat as a prerequisite).

Seems simpler to RAI it, at the very least (in case it boils down into different readings of RAW), as referring only to feats that the character qualifies for.

AmberVael
2010-10-21, 01:41 PM
Just as a side note, you can easily get into Loremaster without having to use a precious feat on Skill Focus (Knowledge). You can spend 2,000gp to get the benefit of The Frog God's Fane, which allows you to gain that feat as one of its benefits. (it's in Complete Scoundrel, along with the much more well known Otyugh Hole).