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Oudthrinn
2010-10-18, 01:52 PM
Building a Paladin-esque character, and wondering what the wording on this spell reflects. Divine Sacrifice (Complete Divine). Unless I'm missing something, you can cast the spell multiple times, and although its effects aren't stacking, each instance of the spell still takes its effects individually. Thus you can, once per round per spell, sacrifice 2hp per additional 1d6 damage you wish to deal (to a maximum of 10hp sac'd for 5d6 additional damage dealt). Sure, you're still sacrificing on average a little less than what you're dealing, but does it work?

Psyren
2010-10-19, 10:15 AM
My kneejerk reaction is to say that the spell shouldn't stack with itself, but the damage bonus it grants is untyped.

To facilitate discussion, here is the wording of the spell in question:



{{scrubbed}}

I think your interpretation - that you can cast the spell multiple times and sacrifice health to each of them for massive damage - could be valid. You'd need a LOT of health though.

Unless... it does say "sacrificed hit points count as normal damage." Does that mean DR/hardness can reduce them?

Mikka
2010-10-19, 10:26 AM
Considering the wording "Sacrifice" i would say RaI its illegal to reduce the damage (or say you have dr 5, you take 15 damage, sacrificing 10 hp)

But RAW. . you might be right. . thats just awful though : p

A combo that would work well with this is the "Stone Power feat" , take -5 to attack, get +5d6 damage and the stone power creates 10 temporary HP every round to be sacrificed : P

Psyren
2010-10-19, 10:39 AM
A combo that would work well with this is the "Stone Power feat" , take -5 to attack, get +5d6 damage and the stone power creates 10 temporary HP every round to be sacrificed : P

That's from ToB, right? If you have that, there's no need to be a Paladin :smalltongue: but it's still a neat trick.

Hmmm... the more I read this spell the more I like it. Some notes:

1) It doesn't need a holy symbol.
2) It is reminiscent of the Diablo Paladin's Sacrifice attack.
3) Though it will likely kill you, you can do +5d6 at level 1. Not too shabby.
4) It doesn't specify melee attacks; so you can add a lot of damage to, say, an arrow or a sling bullet with this spell.
5) The extra damage will only "discharge" if you connect; so you never waste health with it unless you miss every attack during the duration.
6) It can be quickened with Battle Blessing, letting you activate it and full attack in the same round.
7) Archivists can do all of the above as well.

senrath
2010-10-19, 10:45 AM
3) Though it will likely kill you, you can do +5d6 at level 1. Not too shabby.

Not quite. Paladins don't get their first spells until level 4.

Mikka
2010-10-19, 10:47 AM
That's from ToB, right? If you have that, there's no need to be a Paladin :smalltongue: but it's still a neat trick.


What do you mean theres no need to be a paladin?

Psyren
2010-10-19, 10:47 AM
Not quite. Paladins don't get their first spells until level 4.

Archivists, however, CAN cast this at level 1.

Like I said, it will probably kill you. :smalltongue:


What do you mean theres no need to be a paladin?

With ToB allowed, you can get much of the same flavor from a Crusader with superior combat ability.

Mikka
2010-10-19, 10:52 AM
. . but how would you cast the spell to get the +5d6 damage?

Stone power is -5 attack. get 10 temporary hp next round. .

Psyren
2010-10-19, 10:54 AM
. . but how would you cast the spell to get the +5d6 damage?

Stone power is -5 attack. get 10 temporary hp next round. . duh helloooo? >>

Crusaders don't need Paladin spells to mop the floor with them. Even with magic, Paladins are only tier 5, while Crusaders are tier 3.

Oudthrinn
2010-10-19, 10:56 AM
Okay, so the original determination is that the spell as worded is validly capable of being cast multiple times for a not-necessarily-stacking-but-still-awesome-suicidual-damage-output? Neat :)

Greenish
2010-10-19, 10:56 AM
. . but how would you cast the spell to get the +5d6 damage?You'd use a maneuver, obviously.


Stone power is -5 attack. get 10 temporary hp next round. . duh helloooo? >>With Stone Power, you take a penalty (up to 5) to your attack to gain twice the penalty in temporary hitpoints on that round.

Psyren
2010-10-19, 11:02 AM
Okay, so the original determination is that the spell as worded is validly capable of being cast multiple times for a not-necessarily-stacking-but-still-awesome-suicidual-damage-output? Neat :)

Yes, but like I said - RAW, you would need to sacrifice health to each instance of the spell to gain its damage bonus. That can get pretty painful pretty quickly.

Oudthrinn
2010-10-19, 11:08 AM
Also RAW, I believe this is a loss of life mechanic, not a damage based one. DR wouldn't work under 2 rules at that point. 1, even if it is damage, it's damage from a spell which automatically bypasses DR and Hardness anyways. Second, it's loss of life, so Damage reduction shouldn't apply anyways. Not even really sure temp HP should, either, but that I'll leave for another day 8-)

Psyren
2010-10-19, 11:12 AM
Second, it's loss of life, so Damage reduction shouldn't apply anyways.

That's Magic: The Gathering talk. The important thing is the line I already quoted:

"Sacrificed hit points count as normal damage."

Therefore it's not "life loss" even though it probably should be. The term "normal" could also potentially invalidate the "damage from a spell" clause; even if it doesn't though, there's no reason temp HP or even damage redirection (e.g. Share Pain) shouldn't work.

jiriku
2010-10-19, 11:17 AM
Also worth mentioning, this spell has been reprinted in Spell Compendium, and now functions differently. Basically, you now must always sacrifice 10 hp.

Also, there's a pretty consistant stance from WotC that all damage taken as a "sacrifice" can't be reduced. As a DM I'd lean in that direction as well, as eliminating costs from effects that are balanced by heavy costs leads to...imbalance.

Psyren
2010-10-19, 11:19 AM
Also worth mentioning, this spell has been reprinted in Spell Compendium, and now functions differently. Basically, you now must always sacrifice 10 hp.

Thanks, I didn't even think to check there.

*reads*

Ugh, they nerfed it to hell. Nothing to see here. :smallyuk:

Oudthrinn
2010-10-19, 11:24 AM
heh, not too bad of a nerf considering what I'm going to do with it, but good to know. Basically, for every point of damage I take, my "target" takes that daamge as well (so 10 damage from this spell means 20 damage taken by 2 people). After that, my "paladin" character is primarily a Crusader, so a good chunk of damage I take is put into the steely resolve buffer, and I heal myself on pretty much every attack.

For reference, the special ability I mentioned is a houserule from the campaign I'm currently playing in. The GM gave us all special abilities based on our character concept.

KillianHawkeye
2010-10-19, 05:38 PM
It is reminiscent of the Diablo Paladin's Sacrifice attack.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure this originated from the d20 Diablo2 RPG book. As well as the Divine Blessing (I think) feat that adds accuracy to attacks.