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Sipex
2010-10-19, 09:13 AM
One of my players for my D&D game is becoming a bit of a problem player. I like lists so here's a list of the offenses. Please note, a lot of these issues came to light once we completed our most recent session, the first session ever that she missed.

1) She gets upset if other players talk while she's talking which sounds reasonable but tends to boil down to if two players are having a discussion off on the side she gets upset which is annoying, my players should be able to do that unless I require their attention.

2) She gets upset if we're not 100% focused on the game, all the time. We like to quote, the entire table does. We've got a 4channer at the table who has infected us so it's just part of what we do now and she's gotten to taking offense whenever we spare a moment to quote.

3) She's got extreme entitlement issues. She missed the last session (she had to work) and made it very apparent that she was upset about it. She pretty much gave us all the cold shoulder for 2 weeks, whined extensively to her boyfriend (he's a player too) and quips in with remarks like "Oh, I don't have ANY opinion. Remember? I missed that session!" . She blames it on 'not enough notice' which is true to an extent, she only had a week's notice after we all voted (we vote, in private) on a session. The caveat here is we vote to play once a month and all the available days for October (we can only do saturdays due to the shop where we play) she worked anyways (she works at a costume shop and it's october so they tied her time up for most of the month). Now she's saying things like "I better not miss the next session". Actually, a lot of her recent language towards me indicates this sort of tone of "I better" and "Must".
She also seems to think because she puts a lot of money into the game (without being asked) that we owe her something.

4) She can't settle on a character. I don't want to manage a party larger than 7 characters, 1 for each player (one is an extra character for myself who's the party heal bot). She's currently got a Fighter and a Rogue in the party which I was okay with back when we only had the five of us (two are new players) but she's having difficulty adapting to this new rule. In addition, she keeps building new characters which she fully intends to use or 'just trail along and use their skills to help us'. She doesn't seem to grasp that even if she doesn't actively play these characters they'll overshadow the rest of the party, take play opportunities from them and trivialize challenges. This leads to my next point.

5) She's...slow. We think she has a learning disability. This is fine, I'm not about to kick anyone out because they're not as intelligent as the rest of the group. The problem is she won't acknowledge this or accept help and will just get upset if we bring it up. This makes any part of the game involving mechanics difficult (which is a lot, we play 4e) as she has to halt the game and figure out what she's doing. Add in that she currently tries to play two characters which she still doesn't fully know (although I admit she's at least taken steps to make it easier to play them) and is still trying to make more.

One player has expressed concerns about her directly to me so far, my wife. I have suspicions the others might think along the same lines but there are restraints stopping them: One is her boyfriend and he's very passive, he also has to put up with her if she has a tantrum of any sort. One is a non-confrontational college student who she's hit with a ruler a few times because he's loud. Yes, you read that correctly. The other two are a couple who are very new and have only played one game with her due to scheduling issues. I doubt I'll hear anything from the girl since she's extremely quiet but the guy tends to speak his mind which may initiate this whole conflict before I do if I don't act.

Now, I know the obvious solution is to talk to her in some fashion, this is where the sensitive piece comes in. She is extremely sensitive and she'll only end up getting upset in the end. Best case scenario is she'll hear me out then rebute, ignoring all the points I made, worst case is she blows up in my face (which I can handle but won't lead us anywhere).

If I kick her from the group we'll lose her and her boyfriend and in addition, probably the student since he knows her and won't want her mad at him for still playing. The other two, I predict, will drop since they're still rather new and would feel awkward about it.

So, what do I do?

dsmiles
2010-10-19, 09:21 AM
Run.

Run far.

Run fast.

You appear to be in a no-win situation. If said player is so touchy then even a calm, logical discussion my be beyond their capacity.
I sympathize with you. A group I was in many years ago ran into the same situation. We lost the player and her husband (until they split). The rest of us stayed on, though, as your friendship with the DM was more important than a few harsh words from that particular player.

PopcornMage
2010-10-19, 09:23 AM
You can't fix another person.

Don't even try. It's not worth it.

I'd probably have told her to leave with the ruler incident, but if you feel it'll just end the group now, you can always end it yourself, and then start over with something new, and without the people you're afraid you're going to lose.

Sipex
2010-10-19, 09:34 AM
That's definitely plan B but I'm hoping for some shred of hope to salvage the current game. We just hit paragon (or are about to) and I've put about two years of work into it.

"Two years?!" You say. "Why didn't this come up sooner?"

Well, I did mention that all the longer term players are quite non-confrontational, so if anyone saw something they would've blown it off.

We were new friends at the time so we were still feeling each other out.

We were focusing on other issues with players in the game (namely the loud one and her boyfriend) which actually brought her issues to light (they actively improved themselves).

She lost her job about 6 months ago and her whole attitude changed. This one I thought was major up until she got a new job and the attitude didn't change back.

The last session we had was the first EVER that she missed which triggered her entitlement issue.

Kaww
2010-10-19, 09:41 AM
My 2c, might be rubbish though...

Well, you do have a serious problem. Violence is an instant ban in any group in which I DM. You can't fix her, nether can your friend. It would be an even bigger problem if she was your friend's wife, I guess...

She is angry because something came up, she had to quit and you didn't want to delay that session? Did you ask her would she wait a month if someone else had a thing?

You are to blame for a part of the problem. You should allow double characters only if EVERYBODY has two. I don't allow it as a rule. Also try to explain to her that over optimized characters die mostly from great wyrm dragons having heart attacks couple of miles above them (joking, but stealing the spotlight is frowned upon). Also if you haven't done this yet try and talk to her about DnD. Tell her that this is just a game and that the whole point is having fun. If she can't grasp this concept she is not a true player.

I'm sorry for having to say this, but I guess you thought of it too. You group might shatter and you might lose most of your players for a while. If you want to avoid this you might achieve it by splitting the party for a while. Having them do separate quest etc.

Serpentine
2010-10-19, 09:42 AM
I sympathise with the thread title, although my problem player is rather different :smallsigh:
She stormed off and cried when I half-teasingly told her she should write things like attack bonuses on her sheet, and last week she sulked for half the game because her flaw that she designed stopped her from engaging in combat, even when the DM, her boyfriend, gave her an easy and reasonable way out but she decided that her rules for her flaw meant she still couldn't join in :sigh:
That encounter was incredibly unsatisfying all round. :smallannoyed:

PopcornMage
2010-10-19, 09:45 AM
The last session we had was the first EVER that she missed which triggered her entitlement issue.

Well, as reactions go, that's one I'm inclined to at least say that some degree of upset *could* be reasonable. It is a common reaction.

OTOH, not being in your shoes, I don't know what you're getting, and there are times it could go outside the bounds of acceptable.

There's a reason why I like to have alternatives in place if somebody's going to be forced to miss a session. Especially in this case where it's work related.

Even a one-shot trial balloon instead may be a better solution.

Tiki Snakes
2010-10-19, 09:48 AM
You should probably make a stand on the two character issue, given the speed concerns.
Other than that, simply taking a sliiightly stronger line with her is possibly the way to go. Don't let her push people around, YOU'RE the DM.

Eventually, if you do step up into the role of Authority a little more strongly when dealing with her, it should have one of two results; She'll either decide to be elsewhere, in which case problem kinda solved and a chance at least of the group not exploding in the aftermath, OR she'll respond to the stronger line, and behave better.

It might even be worth just refusing to let her boss you guys around. If she wants to be upset, that should be her problem, perhaps?

Kaww
2010-10-19, 09:53 AM
@ Tiki I'm not sure, he did say her boyfriend is passive. So if she is upset she will upset him, now you have two upset players. If she continues it she might start whacking the student more often, thus upsetting yet another player...

Oracle_Hunter
2010-10-19, 09:56 AM
I'm sorry for having to say this, but I guess you thought of it too. You group might shatter and you might lose most of your players for a while. If you want to avoid this you might achieve it by splitting the party for a while. Having them do separate quest etc.
This is an excellent idea!

Yes, this is a 4E game so splitting the party can be problematic, but here the Problem Player's ("PP's") multiplaying will work to your advantage.
Take the 5(?) "normal" people and get them to be in their own party following the main quest. PP, her boyfriend and maybe the Student on some sort of "Throw the One Ring into Mt. Doom" style quest. With 4 characters (PP x2 plus the one for each of the other two) they should be fine and, if you make the PP "Frodo" she should be pleased with the turn of events.

This solves a bunch of problems:
(1) A smaller group is easier to keep "on track" - so she shouldn't complain about a lack of focus

(2) Scheduling around the PP is easier for a smaller group. Plus, if she can't make it one month you can just cancel that party's session without losing all you gaming.

(3) Her boyfriend is going to stick with her anyhow, so isolating the two of them contains the fallout from her outbursts.

The Student is the sacrificial lamb here, of course - but he sounds attached to her anyhow. With your "real" group, you should be able to game normally and develop good relations with the new players. That way, they'll be more likely to stick with you in case of a showdown.
Normally, I wouldn't advocate this sort of duplicity but, if you can afford to run a second game this is probably the way which gives you a win. Otherwise, I'd say shut down the game entirely, wait a few months, and then start up a new one with everyone except for the PP and her boyfriend (if they're still together).

Good luck! :smallsmile:

EDIT:
@Tiki Snakes - the problem with confrontation is The Boyfriend. Confronting the PP is going to turn her against the DM (she is unlikely to "shape up") and thereby turn the Boyfriend against the DM. An accomodation strategy (as I Kaww proposed and I elaborated) will at least give the DM plausible deniability if she gets angry: "I thought you'd like a chance for the focus to be on you for awhile. Plus, I could tell that the other players' playstyle wasn't jiving with yours - they wanted a more casual game."

It's risky, sure, but it has a better chance of maintaining friendships than direct confrontation with the S.O. of a friend. That never ends well :smalleek:

FelixG
2010-10-19, 09:56 AM
Take a hard line with her on things, impose penalties if she starts getting uppity, if she directs violence against other players de-level her...let her quit.

If she starts complaining loudly point toward the door and offer to open it for her like a gentleman.

People with entitlement issues, in my experience, need to be shown that they are not the center of everyones world.

Jornophelanthas
2010-10-19, 09:57 AM
She lost her job about 6 months ago and her whole attitude changed. This one I thought was major up until she got a new job and the attitude didn't change back.

The last session we had was the first EVER that she missed which triggered her entitlement issue.

I'm thinking the new job is not one she's happy with, so her mind is still stuck in "I'm not doing the work I want to do"-mode. And just maybe missing a D&D-session against her will gives her the same vibe as her losing her job in the first place, which is why she's overreacting. After all, the "I can't have an opinion"-comment seems more appropriate for a losing-a-job situation than a missing-a-game-session situation.

This player probably has personal problems outside the game that cause her to be unreasonable, which she also brings to the table. This cannot be solved inside the game, but it may be addressed in a diplomatic/sensitive way outside of the game. Maybe you could ask her boyfriend (who is also part of the gaming group, right?) if everything is okay with her, because you are getting the feeling something may be the matter.

edit:
Oh, and to soften the blow from missing a game session, you could offer a solo session (with her two characters) sometime before the next group session. After all, player characters who are not around could have separate adventures.

WarKitty
2010-10-19, 09:58 AM
That's definitely plan B but I'm hoping for some shred of hope to salvage the current game. We just hit paragon (or are about to) and I've put about two years of work into it.

"Two years?!" You say. "Why didn't this come up sooner?"

Well, I did mention that all the longer term players are quite non-confrontational, so if anyone saw something they would've blown it off.

We were new friends at the time so we were still feeling each other out.

We were focusing on other issues with players in the game (namely the loud one and her boyfriend) which actually brought her issues to light (they actively improved themselves).

She lost her job about 6 months ago and her whole attitude changed. This one I thought was major up until she got a new job and the attitude didn't change back.

The last session we had was the first EVER that she missed which triggered her entitlement issue.

Just how big of a change are we talking? Did it just bring out some bad characteristics, or was it a major change? You might be dealing with stress-triggered depression or something similar.

Sipex
2010-10-19, 09:58 AM
I will clarify some things.

All the players were allowed to have double characters. In fact, they still are, the only rule is you're just only allowed to bring one along for the ride. My wife has two and abides by this rule, the college student is currently making a second and will be putting his wizard on story hiatus for a bit and her boyfriend just likes having one to focus on. The other two are still very new so they only really want one each. Her problem is she can't grasp this (she seems to think it just means only bringing one to battle) and also holds up the game extensively as she learns new stuff (which is her learning issue). That said, if this was her only problem this could be fixed with a conversation since she still understands the concept of fair.

Currently this game shop is our best (and only) option right now and they let us choose any days we want provided they're in store and not running an event. Weekdays I work 9-5 so the store is closed before I'm off and Sundays they're only open for 3 hours (we play 5 hour sessions). Our various residences have been cut out due to size, roommate and distance issues.

On the 'missed session' issue with her, everyone (except her boyfriend and myself) have missed at least one session due to scheduling issues. Actually, up until recently we were playing almost strictly on days that everyone could meet (with those missing days happening at the last minute usually) but I had to put a stop to that and switch to voting when this resulted in us not playing for 4 months. This is something everyone understood when I proposed either voting for a day or stopping the game (since I don't want to commit to a game and work on it if we'll never play).

Oh, I should also point out that the other players are scared of upsetting her too, they purposely did nothing story constructive last session because she couldn't make it and they KNEW she'd be upset. She was still upset regardless but I don't believe a single player should hold this much sway over the party.

FelixG
2010-10-19, 10:01 AM
Have you considered making cliff notes on sessions where she would miss so she doesn't feel left out or that she missed important goings on?

Oracle_Hunter
2010-10-19, 10:04 AM
Oh, I should also point out that the other players are scared of upsetting her too, they purposely did nothing story constructive last session because she couldn't make it and they KNEW she'd be upset. She was still upset regardless but I don't believe a single player should hold this much sway over the party.
This is deeply troubling.

Get her away from your other players ASAP. Either kick her out (and risk losing the friendship of the Boyfriend) or quarantine her and the other "infected" (i.e. her Boyfriend & The Student) in a side-game. She does not play well with others and is tainting the whole exercise if she commands this sort of fear from the table.

Kaww
2010-10-19, 10:05 AM
Oh, I should also point out that the other players are scared of upsetting her too, they purposely did nothing story constructive last session because she couldn't make it and they KNEW she'd be upset. She was still upset regardless but I don't believe a single player should hold this much sway over the party.

You are %#^%@& right. Party should tremble only before DM's mood swings. :smalltongue: :smallbiggrin:

Sipex
2010-10-19, 10:08 AM
More replies:

Her change
For lack of a better word she went emo which is understandable. She got fired (wrongfully we believe, some co-worker made up stories about her and her manager jumped at the chance to let her go). She lost all her work friends because people can be fickle. This caused her to get extremely needy towards the friends she still had (us) which we tried our best to deal but you can only do so much. Her boyfriend is also showing visible wear due to this.

The Talk
This is the path which I'd like to take but I'm just apprehensive due to

1) Her boyfriend (my friend from highschool) getting the blunt of it. This is a different issue entirely but if he even does anything remotely against her (say...play a card against her in a round of munchkin) she'll get mad at him and won't speak to him for hours. I want to talk to her about this too. He, unfortunately for me, loves her and will side with her no matter what. He's the one who brought up a lot of her issues before because she wouldn't tell us (but complained non-stop to him).

2) The life of my game. I honestly see this as the downfall of my game if it doesn't end well.

My current plan is to meet sometime and get the other players to go off and do something while I speak to her in private and give her the low down about what's not acceptable (so she doesn't feel ganged up on).

Sipex
2010-10-19, 10:10 AM
Have you considered making cliff notes on sessions where she would miss so she doesn't feel left out or that she missed important goings on?

This is already a regular part of my schedule, I make them for myself then post them online at our campaign site. Definitely helpful.

FelixG
2010-10-19, 10:11 AM
Might start that she is risking loosing you as a friend if she keeps up her shenanigans

and well if she keeps it all up and drives her boyfriend away thats likely one player you dont have to worry about loosing -shrugs- im calloused i know

valadil
2010-10-19, 10:12 AM
Could you talk to the boyfriend and college student who seem to know her better? I'm not saying that you should get them to pass messages to her, but maybe they have ideas for how to make suggestions without setting her off. Lots of gamers have social difficulties. Instead of figuring out your way around those social difficulties, just get help from someone who has already done it.

Regarding missing sessions, I think you should keep a list of who has missed game and when. I also think this list should be kept public. If everyone else has missed more recently than she has, it becomes clear that it's her turn to miss out the next time there's a scheduling dispute. Making it public will make it obvious that it's not just her. I'm guessing that she's so loud about not missing the next session because she's paranoid that you all will forget about her. The list will show her that you know she wasn't there and that you're taking care of her next time.

I think the multiple character thing needs to be clarified for her. Instead of saying someone is tagging along, say they stayed home for that quest. This should be the case for everyone at the table.

PopcornMage
2010-10-19, 10:13 AM
Oh, I should also point out that the other players are scared of upsetting her too, they purposely did nothing story constructive last session because she couldn't make it and they KNEW she'd be upset. She was still upset regardless but I don't believe a single player should hold this much sway over the party.

Seems like you'd have been better off doing something fun anyway.

To be honest, I don't know that this player is a constructive part of the game, so I wouldn't miss her, but like I said, this is one issue I'm understanding about.

Especially when it's not a voluntary case of missing the game, but having to work.

That you changed from making sure everybody is there to just doing it is a difficulty in itself as well.

So like I said, I can forgive it quite easily.

I can even forgive the ruler thing, at least in the sense of accepting that there are people for whom that sort of physical thing is natural. For me, that's such a "Whoa, No Way" that it makes me shiver, but others are different.

Still with all the rest, it seems more likely to be toxic.

Dizlag
2010-10-19, 10:13 AM
"A journey of a 1000 miles begins with one step." - Lao-tzu

Here's my list for you ...

1) Get her down to playing only one character. This will solve the "slow" problem and will get her focused on one character which should be easier for her to handle the quoting from others, lack of focus, etc. That should take care of 4 & 5.

2) Talk to her one-on-one about her "up-tightness" ... though never use that word with her. :smallsmile: Explain to her that it's a game and you're there to have fun ... cracking jokes, quoting movies or what not is fun for others and ask her to respect it. This should take care of 1 & 2.

3) I'm not sure about her "putting money into the game" thing. Did she buy your rules books? The adventure? Does she bring snacks for others to share? OR Is it because she's bought her own books and a subscription to DDI that she needs special attention, special privileges like playing a 2nd character? If it's the former, then bummer for you because honestly I'm not sure what to suggest. If it's the later, then it goes back to the first item in my list and you'll just have to get your back up letting her know she's not the only one in the group. There are 4-5 others who are there to have fun and need your attention as a DM as well.

I feel for you. I've been there, done all this before. Dealing with difficult people in a group is hard and kicking them out is just horrible. I had to do it and it made me sick to my stomach for weeks. You have options though, but think about my list of 3 here and noodle it over for a while. Remember, life is too damn short to not have fun around a gaming table. :smallbiggrin:

Good luck!

Dizlag

EDIT: There have been a few posts since I wrote this up ... whoa! I'm not sure if this will apply now reading your recent posts. I sounds like she's just a horrible, angry person ... not someone I would like in my life and definitely not at my table. I think this goes way beyond the gaming table for you and I suggest having a talk with the boyfriend, your "FRIEND" from high school.

Sipex
2010-10-19, 10:19 AM
"A journey of a 1000 miles begins with one step." - Lao-tzu

Here's my list for you ...

1) Get her down to playing only one character. This will solve the "slow" problem and will get her focused on one character which should be easier for her to handle the quoting from others, lack of focus, etc. That should take care of 4 & 5.


Good starting point. If I don't barrage her with all the issues at once it might work. I did mention this would be the issue she'd be most okay with fixing.



2) Talk to her one-on-one about her "up-tightness" ... though never use that word with her. :smallsmile: Explain to her that it's a game and you're there to have fun ... cracking jokes, quoting movies or what not is fun for others and ask her to respect it. This should take care of 1 & 2.

3) I'm not sure about her "putting money into the game" thing. Did she buy your rules books? The adventure? Does she bring snacks for others to share? OR Is it because she's bought her own books and a subscription to DDI that she needs special attention, special privileges like playing a 2nd character? If it's the former, then bummer for you because honestly I'm not sure what to suggest. If it's the later, then it goes back to the first item in my list and you'll just have to get your back up letting her know she's not the only one in the group. There are 4-5 others who are there to have fun and need your attention as a DM as well.


The second is good as well.

The third...she's not put anything like rulebooks or modules into the game, what she has bought are:

- Figurines for a few party members, including herself and my wife. On a whim.
- Lots of supplies, pencils, clip boards, folders, card stock. All voluntarily.
- Food.

WarKitty
2010-10-19, 10:26 AM
I would honestly suggest seeing if you can get her to schedule a therapy appointment. There's a lot more going on here than just game problems. I don't know if it's reached the threshold of "mental illness" or not, but it sounds like she could use someone to help her sort things out.

That said, that's not ultimately in your power if she doesn't want to. If you can address issues do so; if not you may have to remove her from the game.

Dizlag
2010-10-19, 10:26 AM
Good starting point. If I don't barrage her with all the issues at once it might work. I did mention this would be the issue she'd be most okay with fixing.

This, definitely this. Take your time with it, talk it over with your wife and get her feedback on it. Maybe coming from her it might be better, I dunno. That's up to you.

I would think the campaign notes you put online would help her if she misses a session. Politely remind her that everyone has missed a session and it doesn't in no way take away from her voice at the table. Though saying that might be encouraging something worse or it might help. Again, not sure.

Dizlag

Sipex
2010-10-19, 10:27 AM
Okay, well, I think this is as good as it gets. I'll update you guys when something happens.

Thanks a lot!

Dizlag
2010-10-19, 10:29 AM
I wish you all the luck! And please, let us know how it goes.

Dizlag

PopcornMage
2010-10-19, 10:46 AM
If you need shelter, let us know!

I promise you asylum if you can make it to me.

Malbordeus
2010-10-19, 10:58 AM
the philosophy of "dont stick it in the crazy" may/maynot apply here.

Tyndmyr
2010-10-19, 12:37 PM
@ Tiki I'm not sure, he did say her boyfriend is passive. So if she is upset she will upset him, now you have two upset players. If she continues it she might start whacking the student more often, thus upsetting yet another player...

This is possible, but hitting another player? Not acceptable. Violence needs to be dealt with quickly. The next time she does it, stop the game, look directly at her, and say "Never do that again". If she does, kick her out.

Yes, this is messy. It can in fact lose both players. However, the boyfriend probably feels like he's in an awkward position, where saying something about the game will get him in trouble. There's really no perfect answer here, but all you can really do is try to fix the problem at your table, and let the chips fall where they may.

The other players at your table will no doubt be relieved if you address it. Even those who are pretty laid back and casual players(I have a lot like yours) will eventually be annoyed by her.


Other problems are distinctly secondary. Definitely cut off her access to additional PCs, though.

valadil
2010-10-19, 02:17 PM
This is possible, but hitting another player? Not acceptable. Violence needs to be dealt with quickly. The next time she does it, stop the game, look directly at her, and say "Never do that again". If she does, kick her out.


Agreed. This sounds like someone who needs to be told what's up directly. If you give her a blank stare and use an agitated tone when she hits a player, she's probably not picking up on it. She needs to know in no uncertain terms that that is not unacceptable behavior.

Talon Sky
2010-10-19, 03:53 PM
The third...she's not put anything like rulebooks or modules into the game, what she has bought are:

- Figurines for a few party members, including herself and my wife. On a whim.
- Lots of supplies, pencils, clip boards, folders, card stock. All voluntarily.
- Food.

Tough cookies, remind her that this is all voluntary and not obligatory: the only obligation she has if she wants to play is to show up, follow your rules, and be nice to everyone. There's your main talking points. Can you reward Out-of-game action? Yes....to an extent....my friend's house is usually where I play, so I sometimes sneak in extra loot for him. And if someone brings noms (I'm partial to Skittles), I might add a +1 to a normally mundane item for them. But they know that this isn't always the case....in fact, I try to be sparse with this. My players started doing these things because we like to play with each other.

She does not seem to like to play with the others. She wants to win, plain and simple. Explain to her that D&D isn't about winning.

dsmiles
2010-10-19, 05:58 PM
She does not seem to like to play with the others. She wants to win, plain and simple. Explain to her that D&D isn't about winning.

AMEN to that!

Katana_Geldar
2010-10-19, 06:36 PM
Hope it goes well for you mate, it's part and parcel of being a DM: dealing with those player issues so that your whole party is happy.

I've had to call people on the carpet more than once, and let them know that if such-and-such activity continues they would no longer be welcome in my game. I hate to do it, but it has to be done.

Sipex
2010-10-26, 08:16 AM
Alright, update!

So I sent her an email explaining what was wrong. We started with how she acted due to missing a session, it's the most extreme thing and the most recent. She, predictably, didn't actually read my email, she just saw it as an attack (despite me stating that it was not). She also sent me the biggest, un-paragraphed email of my life which threatened to destroy my eyes.

Took me about an hour and a half to read it, re-read it and reply.

Afterwards we talked via MSN (ie: no risk of giant emails) and went over the points and it basically boiled down to:

I pointed out she's too sensitive so nobody says anything to her when problems arise.
She apologised and assured me she would prefer to be talked to asap when problems arise. It hurts at first but happens quick.

I explained that my problem was how she acted so upset about missing a session when none of the other players gave me so much grief. This went back and forth with me providing examples.
She apologised and explained that it wasn't just the session, she was dealing with other issues at the time as well.
edit: She also mentioned she felt like her opinion and vote weren't considered. I apologised for making it seem like that but explained that her vote had the same weight as everyone else, just a majority of players voted for the day she couldn't do (without knowing).

The other issues will have to be brought up and worked on as we go along. If she brings the ruler to D&D again I'll have to explain to her that I don't want her hitting the college student anymore. If she gets pissy because others are talking to each other I'll have to explain that we're going to play like that from now on, as long as they aren't required to pay attention to the conversation they can talk all they want.

jiriku
2010-10-26, 08:32 AM
If she's willing to listen, there's hope, at least. You're doing the right thing by acknowledging the problem and taking action to deal with it. Even if some of your decisions are unpopular with some players (i.e. her), everyone will respect you more for exercising leadership and demonstrating that you have the best interest of the entire group at heart.

dsmiles
2010-10-26, 08:41 AM
If she's willing to listen, there's hope, at least. You're doing the right thing by acknowledging the problem and taking action to deal with it. Even if some of your decisions are unpopular with some players (i.e. her), everyone will respect you more for exercising leadership and demonstrating that you have the best interest of the entire group at heart.

+1 You're doing the right thing, talking to the player.

Psyx
2010-10-26, 09:18 AM
The two-character thing is the first issue to deal with.

Tell her it's a roleplaying game, everyone needs equal 'face time' and should be immersing themselves in their character fully. Two characters means either hogging the limelight, roleplaying one or both of the characters badly, or simply having one of them trail around like a golf-caddy.

the other issues are more difficult, but this one is pretty basic. If she's slow then it makes it moreso the case: Prove you can handle one before wanting two.



Violence is an instant ban in any group in which I DM.

What? you seriously don't spray each other with improvised flame-throwers on a regular basis?! I've often had players go home without eyebrows! :smallbiggrin:

dsmiles
2010-10-26, 09:22 AM
or simply having one of them trail around like a golf-caddy.

Seriously, if you want a golf caddy, take Leadership. :smalltongue:

Sipex
2010-10-26, 09:48 AM
The two character thing will be handled next session as everyone is still allowed to have multiple characters, just only bring one along with the group each time.

I'll just explain that those with multiple characters need to choose one to focus on per quest and go from there.

Myth
2010-10-26, 10:23 AM
Isn't it obvious? Baleful Polymorph her into a toad.

Sipex
2010-10-26, 10:28 AM
D&D 4e, no baleful polymorph.

Psyx
2010-10-26, 10:42 AM
Seriously, if you want a golf caddy, take Leadership. :smalltongue:

And get punched in the face by any GM worth his salt? I think not.

I remember the 'good old days' of multiple PCs, and it really wasn't roleplaying. I'd never consider allowing it again.

dsmiles
2010-10-26, 10:45 AM
And get punched in the face by any GM worth his salt? I think not.

I remember the 'good old days' of multiple PCs, and it really wasn't roleplaying. I'd never consider allowing it again.

What's wrong with having an army of golf caddies? You'll always have the club you need...:smallbiggrin:

The Glyphstone
2010-10-26, 10:47 AM
I almost stopped reading at the 'hit with a ruler' point and posted 'kick her out now'. I kept going, though, and it's good I did, because happy endings are always better than disasters. If she's willing to talk, there is still hope, but she does need to be reined in, and hard.

Dizlag
2010-11-01, 01:34 PM
I've been wondering about the update on this issue, but just haven't checked the boards in a while. I'm glad you've talked to her and it's starting to work things out. Taking it one problem at a time is good.

I just had a thought about to the multiple characters issue. I would mention to the group as a whole, not singling her out at all, saying that after playing for awhile and realizing that multiple characters are causing a problem that you'll want everyone to go down to just one character. Again, you will be making it a request to all players and not just her. It could sting her less knowing it's happening to everyone else as well. Just a thought.

Again, kudos to you as a DM and a person to talk this out with her. If there are outside issues stressing her out and she's trying to escape from them by gaming ... well, to be honest with you that's what the game is for. Again, it's a game and a time for everyone to have fun.

Good luck!

Dizlag