View Full Version : On like Donkey Kong (3.5)

2010-10-19, 12:17 PM
Ok so here is the issue. We're playing in a campaign and Im the fighter, unoptimized for the most part. Our current mission has us in a ability damage nightmare. My DM says this adventure is gonna get more and more crazy, and flat out tells me and the rest of the party, optimize and cheese it up. Normally I don't do heavy optimization/cheese cause it pisses most DMs off and makes it less fun for everyone, but I've been told its cool.

Gimme a hand here ladies and gentleman. What can I do.

2010-10-19, 12:20 PM
Google Ubercharger, then get somebody to cast Body Ward on you.

More specific advice would need more specific criteria to be met.

2010-10-19, 12:23 PM
Look up Warblade in the Tome of Battle. Crusader might interest you a bit more if you're more interested in tanking.

Duskblade from the PHB 2 would also be effective.

2010-10-19, 12:28 PM
Right vagueness bad...

Im fighter level 6. Dodge mobility spring attack chain, Spike chain user, power attack, combat reflexes, combat expertise, improved trip. I know its sub optimal because it keeps me from full attacking if I wanna use Spring Attack. Im going to multiclass out of fighter the next time I level, because fighter 7 isnt too good. I want to make myself a more useful other than "I full attack."

So what sort of awesomeness can I inject into this guy? Binder levels? Warlock? What?

2010-10-19, 12:33 PM
Well, if you're looking for a way around ability damage, you've got a few choice.

You can buy a wand of lesser restoration. This is the fastest and easiest solution.

A level of either Binder (Tome of Magic) or Incarnate (Magic of Incarnum) will solve that problem pretty much immediately. Binder by binding Naberius (a level 1 vestige who regenerates ability damage, among other things). Incarnate by shaping the Strongheart vest soulmeld (which gives you damage reduction against ability damage).

You can also take the Shape Soulmeld(Strongheart Vest) feat. If you're unlikely to get a level any time soon, you may want to ask the DM about retraining one of your feats for this.

You could convince the party cleric to take the Mitigate Suffering reserve feat, which lets them restore an lot of ability damage, temporarily, and slowly.

Or you could get one of the many, many options that prevents you from taking ability damage (my favorite being the Bone Knight prestige class from 5 nations, although if you're not in an Eberron game that could be tough).

As for optimization in general, well you'll need to be more specific.

2010-10-19, 12:51 PM
Well its a bit impossible for me to go the traditional ubercharger route at this point because I haven't been taking the right feats, and my DM will likely not let me use the retraining rules. I'm sort of at a loss of what to do. Other than ubercharger fighters, Im not sure what else I can do with it.

Its a bit late for it, but I could go the Binder/Warlock/Hellfire Warlock, or Horizon Tripper. The other members have it sort of easy, what with our cleric using the DMM Persist+Nightsticks in two levels, our wizard whose damn good at everything, and our rogue who can't really be seen unless she wants to be. I want to stay competitive with the other members, but Im behind the curve.

2010-10-19, 12:51 PM
I'd go with the level of binder, and then take the shape soulmeld feat.

Go Warlock, because Warlocks can go all day without charges, and if you want a boost, go Hellfire Warlock, so your ability damage nullifiers don't run out of utility when the DM gets bored.

I'd pick up a Bloodline as well, so you can continue Hellfire past the three levels.

2010-10-19, 12:53 PM
Well its a bit impossible for me to go the traditional ubercharger route at this point because I haven't been taking the right feats, and my DM will likely not let me use the retraining rules. I'm sort of at a loss of what to do.

Commit seppuku. If your DM is subjecting a non-optimized FIGHTER to an optimized game and not allowing him to fix his build, bringing in a new character is pretty much the only way to go. It will be an exercise in futility to continue as is if he intends to drain your strength and con to zero.

In other words, ask him if you can reroll so you don't have to die a horrible fate while swinging away with a strength penalty because you weren't aware that the game would require optimized characters to contribute meaningfully.

2010-10-19, 12:59 PM
@Seffbasilisk: That seems to be one of the best courses of action for me. Binder 1 for Naberius, WarlockX/HFWarlockX What Bloodline?

2010-10-19, 01:08 PM
Just from the ones easily available from UA, I'd probably go one of these three:

Stone Giant: PBS + STR
Fire Elemental: Dodge + Dex...
Devil: Dodge + CHA

Fire Elemental seems best, in my estimation, but Cha will boost your DCs, and PBS is something you'll want as a Warlock.

My favorite Blast Shape is Eldrich Spear, but I'd hold off on that for a while, because sniping is rare.

Pick up Flee the Scene, and Entropic Warding and you should be solid.

As for Bloodline strength, I'd got intermediate, and try to get into Hellfire ASAP, so the level boosts the hellfire, and not just the Warlock.

2010-10-19, 01:09 PM
Ok Hellfire ASAP. That would require Warlock 4/Binder 1/Hellfire X, correct?

2010-10-19, 01:12 PM
What are your stats exactly?

2010-10-19, 01:13 PM
You're a fighter in a party with a wizard, a cleric and a rogue? Was that intentional? If not, that's hilarious!

The only way to 'stay competitive' is to get you to a better tier. Which means a very good prestige class. Which means dipping another class (because fighter DON"T HAVE good prestige classes).

First, talk to your GM about Retraining. This means you trade out previously taken feats for different feats when you go up level. Otherwise, you're not getting into a prestige class with feat requirements for at least 3-4 levels. Retraining is a rule from PHB2 (or was it DMG2?).

If retraining is viable, take a 1 level dip into barbarian (take the lion totem ACF to get pounce, because it is ridiculously good). Then immediately go into the frenzied berserker prestige class. It requires a few feats you don't have - retrain your dodge/mobility/spring attack for cleave/destructive rage/intimidating rage. You've already got power attack - which is the only feat you've got worth keeping, IMO. Next time you get the option, take enough ranks in the Jump skill so that you can get Leap Attack. See if the GM will let you retroactively take the Dungeoncrasher Fighter ACF - because Fighter 6 is exactly what you want for that! It will cost you 2 feats for +8d6 damage! Also, see about taking the Knockback feat even if it only applies while you're under the effects of an Enlarge Person or similar spell - it's worth it even if you can only use it while buffed!

If you can't retrain feats, see about retraining skills, or just ignoring some of the skill requirements for a prestige class (promise to take those skill levels before leaving the class, he probably won't have a problem with that). Take a level of Cleric (assuming you have a positive wisdom modifier), and then go into the Bone Knight prestige class I mentioned. 9/10 cleric casting advancement, full BAB, and many tasty class features revolving around making and keeping a private army of undead and nifty undead based armor & weapons. Take the Undead Leadership feat at 9th level and go to town. If the cleric objects, point out that you're using your undead minions to build orphanages and feed the poor (note: use them to build orphanages and feed the poor and just watch as the poor Paladins go into moral panic attacks when they meet you!).

Hope that helps.

2010-10-19, 01:26 PM
Well its a bit impossible for me to go the traditional ubercharger route at this point because I haven't been taking the right feats, and my DM will likely not let me use the retraining rules. I'm sort of at a loss of what to do. Other than ubercharger fighters, Im not sure what else I can do with it.

Take Warblade. Then more warblade. ToB classes multiclass nicely, so in a few levels you'll be pretty similar to an equal level warblade.

Alternately, if your Int isn't very good but you have good Cha, consider Crusader instead.

Other ideas, like warlock or binder, will get you different power long term but the six fighter levels will hurt you a lot more than they will hurt a Warblade.

2010-10-19, 01:29 PM
If you haven't noticed yet, the weekly consensus of this forum to the questions "how do I optimize my fighter/monk" is "play a different class". You can build some pretty powerful and fun melee types in D&D, but not so much with all fighter levels.

If you're stuck, Kestrel's advice to take a 1-level dip in binder is good advice. I'm sure that you want to evolve into a Gish from where you are, but I'm not good at making gishes. :smallannoyed: If you're 6-Ftr now, perhaps you can become a 6-Ftr/6-Caster at 12 and be OK, but all the approaches I know start with the caster class and work hard to not lose caster levels. :smallfrown:

2010-10-19, 01:33 PM
I'm thinking a Hellfire Warlock, with a few Invocations to keep miss chances up (Darkness + Devil's Sight, Entropic Warding), hitting with Hideous Blow (channeling Hellfire) or an Eldrich Glaive....

That's just my input. If you want to stay a sword and boarder, I can give insight on that as well.

Tiki Snakes
2010-10-19, 01:34 PM
Alternatively, I understand the TOB classes play pretty nicely with multiclassing. Something about initiator levels, I understand.

Might be worth looking into, should give you a few more options without requiring retraining.

2010-10-19, 01:35 PM
Take a level of cleric, then take the paladin prestige class. You get better spell casting then a pally, you don't lose anything and you get all their class features faster then they would.

2010-10-19, 01:38 PM
So you want a Fighter?
a) Dungeoncrasher
b) Zhentarim
c) Armored Mage
d) Drow Fighter
e) Thug

You could become a Gish (multiclassing into a caster).

2010-10-19, 02:22 PM
It's dangerous to go alone! Take this. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=357.0)