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View Full Version : Old Mac Donald Had a Farm (But No Ranks In Knowledge: Nature) (3.5)



ScionoftheVoid
2010-10-19, 06:19 PM
Hang on a second; You need to be trained in the apropriate knowledge skill to even attempt to recognise a creature of know anything about it?

So basically a Farmer, level 1 commoner is quite likely a terrified and confused man surrounded by strange clucking, mooing monstrosities that as far as he knows could sprout tentacles and breath fire at any moment, for all he knows about them?

Imagine for a moment that this farm actually existed somewhere. A farm where the farmer has creatures of all kinds, but no idea what any of them are. Terrified beyond belief, constantly in fear of what those small feathered things with the beaks might be capable of. Of that massive beast with the teeth and the frightening speed. Of the number of actually dangerous creatures that he tends to every day without realising it.

On this farm there are many things, from chickens and horses to Gorgons and Tojanidas. I would like suggestions for things that would be most hilarious for a party to see on this farm. Templated creatures, Epic creatures, whatever. Anything goes. The only restrictions are that the creature is not violent whilst on the farm, does not rely on killing masses of other "farmyard creatures" (though a few every once in a while is fine, Vampires are okay, Ghouls are less so), would not kill a first level Commoner by mere contact and that you would find it fun as a player to see it in such circumstances.

And on this farm there was a Gray Render, ee-aye-ee-aye-oh.

dsmiles
2010-10-19, 06:34 PM
And on this farm there was a Gray Render, ee-aye-ee-aye-oh.

With a (whatever sound a Gray Render makes) here, a (whatever sound a Gray Render makes) there, here a (whatever sound a Gray Render makes), there a (whatever sound a Gray Render makes), everywhere a (whatever sound a Gray Render makes).

Old MacDonald had a farm, ee-aye-ee-aye-oh.

And on this farm there was a...Dire Rat, ee-aye-ee-aye-oh.


Also, I vote for a move to the SMBG forum. No offense, everything has its place though.

Morph Bark
2010-10-19, 06:50 PM
Well, you can make Knowledge checks if you're not trained in them, but you just can't get a result of over 10 (effectively). Knowing about chickens and such prolly has a real low DC.

Just an FYI.

PopcornMage
2010-10-19, 06:53 PM
Farmer: I failed my skill check. I don't....know WHAT I'm growing.

dsmiles
2010-10-19, 06:54 PM
Well, you can make Knowledge checks if you're not trained in them, but you just can't get a result of over 10 (effectively). Knowing about chickens and such prolly has a real low DC.

Just an FYI.

Well, seeing as how chickens probably have 1/4 HD, that would make the check DC 10.25, and since DnD rounds all fractions up...11. No! No identifying chickens for you!
http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/Hootto/SOUPNAZI.png

Amoren
2010-10-19, 07:03 PM
I suddenly had the idea of him using a young Tarrasque as a horse. Of course, I'm not sure if he'd keep around a creature that could twitch and throw him over a mile.

OracleofWuffing
2010-10-19, 07:04 PM
Don't forget that you can make a survival check to forage for food in the wild, so you'd have to go out into the wild to get all of your food because those white round things that come out of the feathery things with the beaks may or may not be eggs. :smallbiggrin:

realbombchu
2010-10-19, 07:09 PM
And on this farm there was a grain nymph (2nd edition, but it works.)

Farmer: Saw the most beautiful girl in me fields the other day. Don't remember much after that. Had a headache ever since. Maybe it was one of them mind flayers.

OracleofWuffing
2010-10-19, 07:19 PM
"We thought she turned you into a frog!"
"What's a frog?"
"I dunno."

dsmiles
2010-10-19, 07:22 PM
Don't forget that you can make a survival check to forage for food in the wild, so you'd have to go out into the wild to get all of your food because those white round things that come out of the feathery things with the beaks may or may not be eggs. :smallbiggrin:

Not only that, but as far as poor, old, farmer MacDonald knows, they may be poisonous! :smalleek:

Morithias
2010-10-19, 07:27 PM
The really ironic thing I find, is that Knowledge (nature) only gives you synergy bonuses when you actually run a farm. It's Profession (Farmer) which actually decides who successful you are.

Of course as I have stated before, I'm sure I'm the only person on this forum who has ever actually used the DMG2 business rules in a real campaign.

dsmiles
2010-10-19, 07:30 PM
The really ironic thing I find, is that Knowledge (nature) only gives you synergy bonuses when you actually run a farm. It's Profession (Farmer) which actually decides who successful you are.

Of course as I have stated before, I'm sure I'm the only person on this forum who has ever actually used the DMG2 business rules in a real campaign.

You may be the only one who used the rules, but I successfully abused the system. I bought a small continent with my trading empire. :smallbiggrin: (As a level 7 rogue, no less.)

Zherog
2010-10-19, 07:36 PM
Well, seeing as how chickens probably have 1/4 HD, that would make the check DC 10.25, and since DnD rounds all fractions up...11. No! No identifying chickens for you!


Actually, D&D math always rounds down...

dsmiles
2010-10-19, 07:41 PM
Actually, D&D math always rounds down...

SSSSSHHHHHhhhh...I was having a moment...:smalltongue:

Starbuck_II
2010-10-19, 07:44 PM
"We thought she turned you into a frog!"
"What's a frog?"
"I dunno."

Even Worse, D&D adventuters woulde know what a Slaad (frog-like outsider but not as real frog would be.

Tim: What is that thing?
Samuel the Wizard: Well, I don't know, but it looks like a minataure Slaad.

DragonOfUndeath
2010-10-19, 07:55 PM
isnt there a bunch of vegetable monsters? he doesnt know WHAT he is growing but when it IS :smalleek:

Coidzor
2010-10-19, 07:55 PM
So, wait, does this also mean that those without ranks in knowledge local can't identify humans, elves, orcs, goblins...?

LOTRfan
2010-10-19, 07:57 PM
You may be the only one who used the rules, but I successfully abused the system. I bought a small continent with my trading empire. :smallbiggrin: (As a level 7 rogue, no less.)

I definitely want to here that story.

DeltaEmil
2010-10-19, 07:57 PM
Yep. Some people don't even know their own species. And others forget their own species, because they gained a level, but didn't put a skill point in it.

Perhaps everybody's a stone yeti.

Starbuck_II
2010-10-19, 07:58 PM
So, wait, does this also mean that those without ranks in knowledge local can't identify humans, elves, orcs, goblins...?

No, I think you identify your own kind.
So an orc to a human is a green skinned human. He doesn't know what they are exactly, but he knows not his own kind.

Elves are pointy eared humans.

DeltaEmil
2010-10-19, 08:02 PM
You don't, if you don't have one skill rank in knowledge local, and the other "humanoid" has one hit dice (or level, or whatever).

You also don't know your own species, and what you are capable of...

Crossblade
2010-10-19, 08:05 PM
So, wait, does this also mean that those without ranks in knowledge local can't identify humans, elves, orcs, goblins...?

That just means you don't know where you live.

Urpriest
2010-10-19, 08:06 PM
You don't, if you don't have one skill rank in knowledge local, and the other "humanoid" has one hit dice (or level, or whatever).

You also don't know your own species, and what you are capable of...

Actually, I think those DCs only depend on racial hit dice. May be wrong, though.

Starbuck_II
2010-10-19, 08:07 PM
Actually, I think those DCs only depend on racial hit dice. May be wrong, though.

Yeah, good point so DC 10.

So you have a good chance of not knowing unless you can take 10.

Urpriest
2010-10-19, 08:08 PM
Yeah, good point so DC 10.

So you have a good chance of not knowing unless you can take 10.

Someone beating you up: "What are you? What are you?"

"I don't know! I can't take 10 in combat!"

DeltaEmil
2010-10-19, 08:10 PM
And that you don't know what humanoids are.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/knowledge.htm

Local (legends, personalities, inhabitants, laws, customs, traditions, humanoids)

Also, hit dices count as levels, and levels count the same as hit dices for the purpose of rule effects, like spells.

Valameer
2010-10-19, 08:10 PM
Aaaaaand... suddenly Educated turns into a great feat choice!

Thurbane
2010-10-19, 08:19 PM
I get that this is a joke thread, but if you wanted to address it as a real issue, you could always houserule that you can substitute Profession (farmer) checks for Knowledge checks when dealing with common domestic animals and plants...

Morithias
2010-10-19, 08:20 PM
You may be the only one who used the rules, but I successfully abused the system. I bought a small continent with my trading empire. :smallbiggrin: (As a level 7 rogue, no less.)

Been their done that. Take my build, take a single shop, and turn it into 1.4 trillion gold a month in profit in just one year.

Toptomcat
2010-10-19, 08:25 PM
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/Toptomcat/Bear_lore2.png
This seemed apropos. :smallbiggrin:

Realms of Chaos
2010-10-19, 08:31 PM
Ahem...


In general, the DC of such a check equals 10 + the monster's Hit Dice.

As funny as it would be, that DC is not set in stone. Much like custom spell and item creation, this DC has the excuse of being merely a guideline. :smallamused:

If you want to focus on actual absurdities, you could instead focus on how gaining a level somehow makes you less recognizable as a member of your race. Alternately, you could point out how it is impossible to reroll a failed knowledge check until you gain a new rank in the skill, meaning that a random farmer with 8 Int still has a 50% chance of having no earthly clue what a chicken is (as taking 10 results in a roll of 9, failing). :smallbiggrin:

Zaydos
2010-10-19, 08:31 PM
Well seeing as how Knowledge (Nature) is more like being a biologist than knowing how to just tend to plants; yes Profession (Farmer) makes more since as the one to determine how well you farm.

On subject:
Beholder
Dragons (they can subsist on soil according to the MM and Draconomicon).
Shambling Mound
Celestial Half-Dragon Pseudonatural Giant Bees

I'd suggest a house cat, but I'm pretty sure that would kill the farmer with its mere presence.

ffone
2010-10-19, 08:33 PM
DC 10: "Bears do, in fact, **** in the woods."

Thurbane
2010-10-19, 08:36 PM
If you want to focus on actual absurdities, you could instead focus on how gaining a level somehow makes you less recognizable as a member of your race.
The often cited example is dragons:

"Oh, that's a young Blue Dragon".
"What the heck is that massive, blue scaled lizard-thing breathing lightning at me???"

DeltaEmil
2010-10-19, 08:39 PM
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/Toptomcat/Bear_lore2.png
This seemed apropos. :smallbiggrin:What's a bear? And what are claws? Also, what are these "humanoids" that bear so readily eat?

Urpriest
2010-10-19, 08:40 PM
What's a bear?

A miserable pile of...I'll stop there.

Realms of Chaos
2010-10-19, 08:45 PM
Celestial Half-Dragon Pseudonatural Giant Bees

Bees. My god. A virtual high-five to whoever gets it.

Morithias
2010-10-19, 08:52 PM
Bees. My god. A virtual high-five to whoever gets it.

Ah yes, the ultimate question... to BEE or not to BEE!

(I've been watching too much johnny test recently XD)

DragonOfUndeath
2010-10-19, 08:53 PM
I'd suggest a house cat, but I'm pretty sure that would kill the farmer with its mere presence.

a BABY housecat can kill a level 5 fighter with its 'MEOW' attack

Quietus
2010-10-19, 10:00 PM
Celestial Half-Dragon Pseudonatural Giant Bees

Dangerous as this sounds, it's not THAT bad, if you can survive one attack. It dies afterward, after all.

DragonOfUndeath
2010-10-19, 10:11 PM
Celestial Half-Dragon Pseudonatural Giant Bees.

these arent that bad. Celestial Half-Dragon Pseudonatural WASPS on the other hand...

Drakevarg
2010-10-19, 10:13 PM
Bees. My god. A virtual high-five to whoever gets it.

Going by this insane bass ackwards logic, what would the Knowledge DC on Batman be? :smallconfused:

Zaydos
2010-10-19, 10:19 PM
Honestly I only said bees because they actually produce something edible.

On that note: Half-Celestial Paragon Half-(Gold) Dragon Half-Fiend Half-Fey Pseudonatural Half-Troll Half-Farspawn Pseudonatural Dire Boars. Who wants bacon. And yes you can actually make that (pseudonatural makes it a magical beast, half-farspawn makes it a chaotic evil outsider, half-troll makes it a giant, the other pseudonatural makes it an outsider, half-fey makes it a fey, half-fiend makes it an evil outsider again, half-(gold) dragon makes it a LG dragon, paragon makes it awesome, half-celestial makes it a good outsider).

Gametime
2010-10-19, 10:19 PM
Bees. My god. A virtual high-five to whoever gets it.

Gee, I don't even want to think about the DC to identify Amazons. :smalltongue:

Drakevarg
2010-10-19, 10:21 PM
Honestly I only said bees because they actually produce something edible.

On that note: Half-Celestial Paragon Half-(Gold) Dragon Half-Fiend Half-Fey Pseudonatural Half-Troll Pseudonatural Dire Boars. Who wants bacon. And yes you can actually make that (pseudonatural makes it evil and a magical beast, half-troll makes it a giant, the other pseudonatural makes it an outsider, half-fey makes it a fey, half-fiend makes it an evil outsider again, half-(gold) dragon makes it a LG dragon, paragon makes it awesome, half-celestial makes it a good outsider).

Pseudonatural has no effect on alignment.

Zaydos
2010-10-19, 10:23 PM
Pseudonatural has no effect on alignment.

Oops, I must have been thinking half-farspawn... also why isn't it half-farspawn... edits.

Coidzor
2010-10-19, 10:50 PM
*Ahem*

MONKEY BEES MONKEY BEES MONKEY BEE MONKEY BEES!!! (http://www.headinjurytheater.com/article73.htm)

cdrcjsn
2010-10-20, 04:05 AM
The gap between knowledge nature and handle animal was basically all that was needed to introduce dire "chickens" in our living greyhawk campaign a couple of years ago.

An expert woodsman with high ranks in Handle Animal (but none in Knowledge Nature) found some dire hawk eggs and thought they were large chicken eggs.

They were raised thinking they were chickens and had to land at the end of every flight movement, basically hopping around like chickens.

darkpuppy
2010-10-20, 04:24 AM
On a similar subject, I once had a house-rule, that was very plot important, that males had a -2 DC bonus to Spot checks when noticing breasts. Before anyone says it's sexist, the ladies in the group found it hilarious. They even proposed another few houserules, but, suffice to say, that session derailed rather quickly... :smalleek:

Coidzor
2010-10-20, 08:09 AM
On a similar subject, I once had a house-rule, that was very plot important, that males had a -2 DC bonus to Spot checks when noticing breasts.

So, wait, males were less able to notice breasts than women? :smallconfused:

Starbuck_II
2010-10-20, 08:10 AM
So, wait, males were less able to notice breasts than women? :smallconfused:

No, he said DC. So Woman have a harder time noticing they themselves have breasts.

darkpuppy
2010-10-20, 08:12 AM
Y'know, I never thought of that... burger!

Morph Bark
2010-10-20, 08:27 AM
So, wait, does this also mean that those without ranks in knowledge local can't identify humans, elves, orcs, goblins...?

Considering class levels replace racial HD, they'd effectively be racial HD-less and thus count as having 0 RHD, thus requiring a Know(local) check of 10. :smallamused:

PopcornMage
2010-10-20, 09:12 AM
a BABY housecat can kill a level 5 fighter with its 'MEOW' attack

That's a Charm Person ability.

Zaydos
2010-10-20, 09:31 AM
That's a Charm Person ability.

Baby Housecats have at least 978 different meows. Only 412 of them act as Charm or Dominate.

2 are Power Word Kill.

Always remember to cast Mind-Blank before dealing with kittens.

DragonOfUndeath
2010-10-20, 05:25 PM
Always remember to cast Mind-Blank before dealing with kittens.

Mind Blank has a 50% chance of failing when exposed to a housecat. you need Housecat's Blessing (prerequisite: must worship a Housecat), this acts as a shield against all attacks with a verbal component and makes you a Human/*insert race here* Companion of a Housecat. (Note: :belkar: took this Feat)

Starbuck_II
2010-10-20, 05:30 PM
Eh, some of are immune to kittens. Now puppies...

DragonOfUndeath
2010-10-21, 04:25 AM
Eh, some of are immune to kittens. Now puppies...

are small things with low AC, STR, CON, DEX, WIS, INT and CHA :smalltongue:

Coidzor
2010-10-21, 04:44 AM
Now imagine a warbeast puppy swarm.

DragonOfUndeath
2010-10-21, 04:50 AM
now imagine a housecat swarm :eek: :eek: :eek:

dsmiles
2010-10-21, 04:51 AM
now imagine a housecat swarm :eek: :eek: :eek:

This could take out an entire village of level 1 fighters!!! :smalleek: RUN!!!

DragonOfUndeath
2010-10-21, 04:55 AM
This could take out an entire village of level 20 fighters!!! :smalleek: RUN!!!

fixed it for you

Coidzor
2010-10-21, 05:15 AM
This could take out an entire village of level 1 fighters!!! :smalleek: RUN!!!

Ahh, Fighter Village. They never stood a chance even after some of them realized they needed to put ranks in profession farming.

DragonOfUndeath
2010-10-21, 05:19 AM
Ahh, Fighter Village. They never stood a chance even after some of them realized they needed to put ranks in profession farming.

mainly because they kept trying to make cows lay eggs and milk chickens because they had no Knowledge (Nature)

grimbold
2010-10-25, 04:32 AM
well he gets like 4 skill points right? being a farmer he probbly put em in knowledge (farm animals)
however this is broken because it means that people who read a lot about nature (e.g guys who study plants) could quickly be at like 5 levels in experts just from passing college, but really you should never get 5th level irl...
it means that even most laymen have ranks in knowledge (animals) because i'm sure that 99.9% of working class citizens can recognize cows and such without even trying.

Morph Bark
2010-10-25, 05:55 AM
well he gets like 4 skill points right? being a farmer he probbly put em in knowledge (farm animals)
however this is broken because it means that people who read a lot about nature (e.g guys who study plants) could quickly be at like 5 levels in experts just from passing college, but really you should never get 5th level irl...
it means that even most laymen have ranks in knowledge (animals) because i'm sure that 99.9% of working class citizens can recognize cows and such without even trying.

In modern times, people with an education probably just acquire a bonus feat due to it, which allows the making of certain skill checks untrained. :smallwink:

grimbold
2010-10-25, 06:03 AM
ok fair enough but still, i doubt that people in a primaril agriculture based society would not be able to recognize farm animals with any difficulty. Even joe the wizard who never leaves his tower knows what a cow is.

ScionoftheVoid
2010-10-25, 08:22 AM
So it is decided. The most dangerous creatures on the farm housing Abberations, Dragons, Outsiders and numerous other things who could crush your house by accident are housecats!

Zaydos
2010-10-25, 08:24 AM
So it is decided. The most dangerous creatures on the farm housing Abberations, Dragons, Outsiders and numerous other things who could crush your house by accident are housecats!

My housecats would never harm me. Ignore the scars on my hands.

grimbold
2010-10-25, 08:44 AM
i am petting my cat!

Zaydos
2010-10-25, 08:46 AM
i am petting my cat!

I was yesterday (back at school now). To be honest I don't have scars on my hands; it's been a long time since they could catch them :smalltongue:

ScionoftheVoid
2010-10-25, 08:51 AM
i am petting my cat!

Don't stop! It must be appeased!

Milk for the Cat God! Yarn for the Yarn Throne!

Rising Phoenix
2010-10-25, 09:15 AM
ok fair enough but still, i doubt that people in a primaril agriculture based society would not be able to recognize farm animals with any difficulty. Even joe the wizard who never leaves his tower knows what a cow is.

Don't swear on it... I know someone who thought that chickens didn't need to mate to produce fertilised eggs and thus chicks. "Roosters are useless" that's what she said...

On a related note:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnagRjxp7v4&feature=channel

Starbuck_II
2010-10-25, 09:21 AM
Don't swear on it... I know someone who thought that chickens didn't need to mate to produce fertilised eggs and thus chicks. "Roosters are useless" that's what she said...

On a related note:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnagRjxp7v4&feature=channel

Wait, unferilized I can see, but fertilized? What was she smoking?

Zaydos
2010-10-25, 09:28 AM
Don't swear on it... I know someone who thought that chickens didn't need to mate to produce fertilised eggs and thus chicks. "Roosters are useless" that's what she said...

On a related note:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnagRjxp7v4&feature=channel

The funny thing is while that isn't true for chickens it is for some animals; mostly invertebrates, reptiles, or fish but apparently even in birds and, if wikipedia and the linked Ohio state web page are to be believed, turkeys and chickens.

It's called parthenogenesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenogenesis)

FelixG
2010-10-25, 09:31 AM
Imagine if you will, a group of adventurers with no knowledge (nature), fleeing a farm from the roosters fearing that they are miniature, or hatchling, Cockatrice.

Rising Phoenix
2010-10-25, 09:32 AM
The funny thing is while that isn't true for chickens it is for some animals; mostly invertebrates, reptiles, or fish but apparently even in birds and, if wikipedia and the linked Ohio state web page are to be believed, turkeys and chickens.

It's called parthenogenesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenogenesis)

Yeah heard of that, it is very very rare though. Interestingly I think it could be a genetic throwback to their dino ancestry...

Zaydos
2010-10-25, 09:34 AM
Imagine if you will, a group of adventurers with no knowledge (nature), fleeing a farm from the roosters fearing that they are miniature, or hatchling, Cockatrice.

I have knowledge (nature) and I'd flee a farm from the roosters, they're mean :smalleek:

Though this might be a result of having been attacked by roosters on multiple occasions as a young child; apparently one made my head bleed.

FelixG
2010-10-25, 09:35 AM
I have knowledge (nature) and I'd flee a farm from the roosters, they're mean :smalleek:

Though this might be a result of having been attacked by roosters on multiple occasions as a young child; apparently one made my head bleed.

Are you Link? :smalleek:

ScionoftheVoid
2010-10-25, 09:41 AM
Are you Link? :smalleek:

Obviously not. Link is attacked by cuckoos. He's presumably Link's brother.

grimbold
2010-10-25, 09:45 AM
my cat is currently playing with a cork, i bet she could identify a cow
wait do animals get ranks in identify animals
think about it
a wolf has to be able to identify its prey doesnt it?

Zaydos
2010-10-25, 09:45 AM
Also I am completely devoid of musical ability, and can't ride a horse.

Oh and I lack the triforce of courage, but that's a minor note.

Back on topic I wonder how many adventurers can tell the difference between a gorgon and a bull.


my cat is currently playing with a cork, i bet she could identify a cow
wait do animals get ranks in identify animals
think about it
a wolf has to be able to identify its prey doesnt it?

Not really; that would explain why they keep attacking people.

Also they could just rely on "it looks edible/weak".

FelixG
2010-10-25, 09:46 AM
my cat is currently playing with a cork, i bet she could identify a cow
wait do animals get ranks in identify animals
think about it
a wolf has to be able to identify its prey doesnt it?

I think they will pretty much go after anything that moves if they think they can take it down.

grimbold
2010-10-25, 10:11 AM
ok.. but that would stll take wisdom
*checks monster manual* oo 12 wisdom its a possibility

Thrawn183
2010-10-25, 11:25 AM
Actually, if his farm was inhabited by all the crazy monsters from D&D's past (duckbunnies, amradillephants, sea lions, etc.) I wouldn't really blame the poor guy for not knowing what they are.

dsmiles
2010-10-25, 11:31 AM
Actually, if his farm was inhabited by all the crazy monsters from D&D's past (duckbunnies, amradillephants, sea lions, etc.) I wouldn't really blame the poor guy for not knowing what they are.

...flumphs...

Sliver
2010-10-25, 01:55 PM
Honestly, if I was the farmer and I didn't know what a chicken is, I would never even consider doing anything with the eggs but throw them away. I don't consider eating some bird's... you know. Poisonous or not wouldn't even pop to my mind. Without knowing what the animals are for, a farmer wouldn't benefit from any animal unless he is making money from others looking at it. But it's ok, since even if he has 8 int he doesn't need to make the check. The farmer knows about the animals because he was told about it. You know, knowledge checks are to see if you heard about the subject and still remember enough about it. If you make a living out of it, you heard about the subject from your parents and you don't need to check if you remember it....

But you can continue with your fun. *vanishes*

grimbold
2010-10-25, 03:01 PM
maybe he has a farming feat that allows him to know animals w/out making a skill check?

Gaiyamato
2010-10-25, 04:15 PM
The really ironic thing I find, is that Knowledge (nature) only gives you synergy bonuses when you actually run a farm. It's Profession (Farmer) which actually decides who successful you are.

Of course as I have stated before, I'm sure I'm the only person on this forum who has ever actually used the DMG2 business rules in a real campaign.

I've used them a couple of times. Built Aristocrat character just for the purpose. But the campaigns always seem to die from lack of interest after a while.

Also I think it is assumed in the DnD world that not everything requires a skill check to know/do.

Do you see knowledge(using an outdoor loo)?
What about an appariase check for "what is money?".

Though your concept is amusing. lol.

Coidzor
2010-10-25, 04:49 PM
Yeah, you kinda missed the point, guys. :smallwink: The point isn't, oh noes, we have to play our games like this nao. It's poking fun at the rules oversight.

aboyd
2010-10-25, 07:07 PM
Alternately, you could point out how it is impossible to reroll a failed knowledge check until you gain a new rank in the skill, meaning that a random farmer with 8 Int still has a 50% chance of having no earthly clue what a chicken is (as taking 10 results in a roll of 9, failing).
Actually, I don't believe there is any text in 3.5 edition (which I think is the edition we're using for this discussion) which allows for a re-try even if you increase your rank. In other words, if you fail to recognize a cow, you will forever be unable to tell what it is.

If there is text in 3.5 that states that increasing a rank gives a new roll, I'd love to see it. I actually had to implement a house rule that increasing ranks = new roll, since I couldn't find such text anywhere.

Also, while I think that's really broken, another point of this discussion seems to be more hype than substance. And you touched on it, Realms of Chaos. That is, the DCs are not set in stone. From the SRD:


Give the skill user a +2 circumstance bonus to represent conditions that improve performance, such as having the perfect tool for the job, getting help from another character (see Combining Skill Attempts), or possessing unusually accurate information.
So I would say anyone with any rank at all in Profession (farmer) should get that +2 bonus for any farm animal, as well as for any animal that preys on farm animals. Thus a farmer with an Int of 8 will be able to "take 10" and get an 11 for any farm animal. If we were to suggest that his training might have entailed study of farm animals that would give him another circumstance bonus similar to the bonus for using a library, then he's hitting 13s for any farm animal. He's going to know most animals at that point, and I'd probably say that's a gimme.

Similarly, when the PCs are out fighting monsters, I generally do not have them rolling to see if they know what a goblin is. Most of the 1 CR bad guys (and under) -- kobolds, goblins, and so on -- are just going to be part of the monster-hunting trade. So PCs will get to take 10 plus add circumstance bonuses, and ta-da, we don't even have to roll for most low-CR creatures.

However, for anything above around 3 CR, they get no names, and a custom-written description. The mystery is part of what makes such encounters fun.

DragonOfUndeath
2010-10-26, 08:55 PM
i can see a Dragon squad vs a lone Housecat with a clueless farmer watching wondering what they are and what they are doing :smalltongue: