PDA

View Full Version : [3.5] Becoming a God...kinda



jguy
2010-10-19, 08:24 PM
Okay, my group is reaching the end of our characters careers. We are level 15, starting out at level 6 or something (it's been awhile). Anyway, my characters first goal of turning the party into their perfect forms has already been accomplished. She is a Master Specialist transmuter and just got Polymorph any object. We are a monster group now.

Anyway, I was thinking about what to do next when we fought a Atropal Scion. This gave me an idea. If this is an stillborn godling, it still has some divine spark, or at least had some. After the fight, with the help of my ranger minion, (Another player, I call them my bodyguards/minions, they don't seem to mind after I gave them their new bodies), I shrank the body and stored it for later research.

Now the research is mostly going to be fluff and all, but I was wondering if there was any steadfast rules for godhood, or at least stuff you gain it? Most likely she is going to become a demi-god with a divine rank of 0, perhaps 1 but that is it.

Urpriest
2010-10-19, 08:37 PM
Besides stuff like Proxies (where a god intentionally gives you some godhood, it's how Pun-Pun does it) there aren't any rules for becoming a god, just suggestions. Killing a god is one suggested method, as is gaining a bunch of worshipers. It's all very DM-dependent though.

Toptomcat
2010-10-19, 08:40 PM
Well, there is the Dragon Ascendant PrC in Draconomicon, a ten-level epic dragon-only prestige class in which you gradually gain all the characteristics of DR 0 over the course of ten levels. It's not exactly what you're looking for, but you might adapt it to your purposes.

Urpriest
2010-10-19, 08:43 PM
Well, there is the Dragon Ascendant PrC in Draconomicon, a ten-level epic dragon-only prestige class in which you gradually gain all the characteristics of DR 0 over the course of ten levels. It's not exactly what you're looking for, but you might adapt it to your purposes.

Minor correction: 12 levels. One of the cool features of the Draconomicon PrCs. One more reason I really wish they were more applicable to games, so much cool flavor built in to the crunch.

Beelzebub1111
2010-10-19, 08:45 PM
The easiest way I can think of is to become a god's messenger. Quick way to Hero-Deity-hood. Otherwise you have to do amazing things that get people to worship you and learn your ways. Also try to write your own spells and name them after yourself for wizards.

Urpriest
2010-10-19, 08:47 PM
The easiest way I can think of is to become a god's messenger. Quick way to Hero-Deity-hood. Otherwise you have to do amazing things that get people to worship you and learn your ways. Also try to write your own spells and name them after yourself for wizards.

But Mordenkainen, Tasha, Bigby et. al. aren't gods, unfortunately. Zagyg is, but he got that way via a magical god-trapping device, not getting fame for spell names. Come to think of it, very few spells are named after ascended wizards. Maybe Vecna?

KellKheraptis
2010-10-19, 09:18 PM
A properly made Epic spell can get you into godhood. Also, you can achieve the same or greater power as a deity by becoming immortal (plenty of ways to do this, there was a thread on BG about it not long ago) and then blanketing yourself in a combination of persistent magic, a massive mythal, or both.

Amoren
2010-10-19, 09:32 PM
The only known 'divine/god hood' benefits I know of come from the Marruspawn Abomination from Sandstorm. Spark of the Divine (or some such), causes all hit die to be maxed.

Another suggestion is probably treating all of her spells as supernatural abilities (rather than actual spells), and since she's a god and not a mortal studying magic, perhaps allow her to spontaneously cast any spell she knows. *Shrugs*

I've been pondering creating a template for an epic level character based off of the metaphysical benefits of enlightenment and true understanding of the universe, but I doubt I have the knowledge for it; or to help ya in other ways. Still, its probably something best left for you and your DM to discuss, or for you to toy with if she shows up as an NPC/religion in another game.

HunterOfJello
2010-10-19, 09:52 PM
I remember an article on WotC that had a level 20 to 30 (I think) class that made a character a Demigod. It was a 3.5e version of the ideas that were going to be implemented into 4e.

There were a few examples of 'epic tier' classes that gave characters ridiculously powerful abilities. It's kind of obscure though and I've only seen it referenced once or twice.


But Mordenkainen, Tasha, Bigby et. al. aren't gods, unfortunately. Zagyg is, but he got that way via a magical god-trapping device, not getting fame for spell names. Come to think of it, very few spells are named after ascended wizards. Maybe Vecna?

The named spells were all converted into nameless spells during the 3.0 -> 3.5e conversion or once they were put into the Spell Compendium. Check out the front section of the book and you can see a long list of renamed spells.

It's kind of a shame. I like some of the old names. Like:


Eilistraee's grace -> grace
Elminster's evasion -> instant refuge
Caligarde's claw -> force claw

Mordenkainen's Force Missles -> Force Missles
Mordenkainen's Buzzing Bee -> Buzzing Bee
Tvash-Prull's bonefiddle -> Bonefiddle
Shelgarn's Presistent Blade -> Persistent Blade

Horizikaul's boom -> sonic blast
Horizikaul's cough -> sonic snap
Horizikaul's versatile vibration -> sonic rumble


*****EDIT*****


3.5e Epic Destiny to become a Demigod featured on the WotC Archives (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:1k0LR4Zw4ZoJ:www.wizards.com/default.asp%3Fx%3Ddnd/drfe/20080428+site:www.wizards.com+demigod+3.5e&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a)

The 30th level ability transforms the character into a minor deity.

There's also a variant suggestion for using the same epic destinies from level 12 to 20 along with using more level appropriate abilities granted.

Coidzor
2010-10-19, 10:00 PM
then blanketing yourself in a combination of persistent magic, a massive mythal, or both.

What's this then?

HunterOfJello
2010-10-19, 10:03 PM
What's this then?

Forgotten Realms Mythal (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Mythal).

"A powerful epic level magical effect, created by a circle of elven High Mages to protect and ward a large area with numerous powerful enchantments. They work by permanently altering The Weave to create an area wherein the normal rules of magic no longer apply."

jguy
2010-10-19, 10:05 PM
I think I might have left something out when I made the original post. What she is going to do is research/take apart that body of the scion to discover what gave it its divine spark. She is then going to recreate it, somehow, and either give it to herself or alter her own genetics to create whatever makes the spark inside of her. Since the scion is a stillborn godling, it doesn't have a very high amount of divinity, so at best she will be a divine rank 0, maybe 1.

My main question is what being a demi-god gives you? Fluff stuff according to Dm or what?

Douglas
2010-10-19, 10:11 PM
RAW only contains suggestions for possible ways a DM might allow a PC to become a god, but there are plenty of rules about the benefits of pulling it off.

Divine ranks and powers (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/divineRanksPowers.htm)
Salient divine abilities (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm)

Toptomcat
2010-10-19, 10:13 PM
Edit: Ha, forgot the deity rules were OGC!

Coidzor
2010-10-19, 10:15 PM
I believe if deity-status (or feeding it in order to continue it) is dependent upon number of worshipers, the minimum is in the low-mid hundreds from what little the RAW sheds on things anyway.

So, coming up with some sort of tenets or persona to sell would be a good idea to at least have some ideas for already if it comes to that.

Toptomcat
2010-10-19, 10:18 PM
Which, disturbingly, could put DR 0 in reach of a high-level character with the Leadership feat.

Coidzor
2010-10-19, 10:25 PM
Or a mid-level bard.

Douglas
2010-10-19, 10:29 PM
Ah, but followers from Leadership do not normally worship their leader as a god.

I suppose the bard could fast-talk his way into convincing people he's a god, but that would have one hell of a circumstance modifier for being hard to believe and he'd have to go so far as to convince people to worship him in preference to their previous god. And then there are the headaches involved in faking miracles to maintain the Faith, not to mention the risk of a cleric denouncing you when he discovers you can't grant him divine spells...

Toptomcat
2010-10-19, 10:31 PM
Thrallherd, then.

Coidzor
2010-10-19, 10:40 PM
not to mention the risk of a cleric denouncing you when he discovers you can't grant him divine spells...

You can't grant divine spells to someone who's already a cleric without them going through a big ol' quest anyway.

Toptomcat
2010-10-19, 10:57 PM
You don't neccesarily need to claim you're a god already. Just explicitly tell them that their worship will uplift you to divine status.

Why lie when the truth will serve as well?

DragonOfUndeath
2010-10-19, 10:57 PM
And then there are the headaches involved in faking miracles to maintain the Faith, not to mention the risk of a cleric denouncing you when he discovers you can't grant him divine spells...

this only occurs before you ascend so unless this happens in the first year or two :smalltongue: you will actually be a god and can grant spells


You don't neccesarily need to claim you're a god already. Just explicitly tell them that their worship will uplift you to divine status.

Why lie when the truth will serve as well?

1) does the character know that?
2) if you tell them that worship=godhood they will make THEMSELVES out as gods and ascend without you

Toptomcat
2010-10-19, 11:09 PM
Cohorts and followers don't exactly strike me as the power-hungry self-starter types that would do that kind of thing. And sufficient Knowledge: Religion ought to take care of that.

Crow
2010-10-19, 11:34 PM
Every method of becoming a god ever printed in a book means jack squat. As does any method suggested by anyone on this board.

Talk to your DM and ask him about the gods in the setting you are playing in, and how one can possibly ascend to godhood, if such a thing is even possible in his game.

Explain to your DM what it is you want to do, and find out if it is somewhere he even wants to go with the game. If he's cool with it, work with him to make it happen. If you're interested in what gaining divine ranks will net you, it is all open gaming content and can be found at d20srd.org

dgnslyr
2010-10-19, 11:53 PM
What's this then?

A missile crafted by a wizard with a lisp?

Myth
2010-10-20, 02:47 AM
Can't believe it took you guys so long to point him to the SRD link for divine ranks. BTW OP, you will probably be a Quasi-Deity rather then a Demigod. The difference is huge. If you ever get to Demigod (Divine Rank 1) with Greater Teleport and Plane Shift at will and one SDA, pick Alter Reality.

It is the single most broken thing out of all the Salient abilities, because it has NO prerequisites whatsoever, and it allows you to:

- cast every spell/SLA in the game
- make any continous spell effect permanent

So if your DM is foolish enough to give you Divine Rank 1, tell him. "I take Alter Reality. My character goes away for a month or two" (btw DR0+ means you get 20 Outsider HD, and no longer need to breathe, eat, sleep etc.)

After that inform him that you now have every beneficial spell, castable by any and all class ever printed, made permanent on yourself. Including an AMF that does not impede your own magic.

Beelzebub1111
2010-10-20, 05:20 AM
But Mordenkainen, Tasha, Bigby et. al. aren't gods, unfortunately. Zagyg is, but he got that way via a magical god-trapping device, not getting fame for spell names. Come to think of it, very few spells are named after ascended wizards. Maybe Vecna?

Murlynd has a few.

dsmiles
2010-10-20, 05:28 AM
A properly made Epic spell can get you into godhood. Also, you can achieve the same or greater power as a deity by becoming immortal (plenty of ways to do this, there was a thread on BG about it not long ago) and then blanketing yourself in a combination of persistent magic, a massive mythal, or both.

Mythals are bad juju, my friend...baaaaaad juju. Never heard of Myth Drannor? Or the fact that they had to write Return to Myth Drannor? Obviously once wasn't enough. :smalltongue:

EDIT: @Beezlebub: ...and a SPOOOOOOON! Can't forget that.

Urpriest
2010-10-20, 08:04 AM
So if your DM is foolish enough to give you Divine Rank 1, tell him. "I take Alter Reality. My character goes away for a month or two" (btw DR0+ means you get 20 Outsider HD, and no longer need to breathe, eat, sleep etc.)


I had the impression the 20 outsider HD were only for naturally formed gods. Check out some of the risen ones, in particular Imhotep. The 20HD are just a way for the printed gods to be less massively multiclassed, since they don't use the epic rules.

Urpriest
2010-10-20, 08:05 AM
Murlynd has a few.

He also was a paladin, IIRC.

dsmiles
2010-10-20, 10:02 AM
Here's Murlynd in a nutshell:


In Gygax's Dragon article, Murlynd was described as a handsome Oeridian male with weathered features, clothed in worn leather and wearing a light-colored hat of a type unfamiliar to the Flanaess. A pencil illustration shows a stereotypical cowboy of the Wild West genre, wearing a Stetson and chaps, and holding two Colt .45 revolvers. His personality is described as aloof and taciturn, though he is quite personable among his allies. Murlynd is described as being dangerous only when provoked by evil beings. In addition to his pistols, which are simply described as a pair of strange, hand-held weapons that emit powerful projectiles, and which Murlynd refers to as "45's," "six shooters," and "hog legs", Gygax notes that he is also proficient with longsword, battle axe, and crossbow. However, Gygax describes Murlynd's origins as unknown.
He was sponsored to godhood by Heironeous, and is described as being an ally of Celestian, Phaulkon, Zagyg, Keoghtom, Mordenkainen, and Heward, while Iuz is one of his fiercest enemies. (This is due to the fact that he aided Zagyg in imprisoning Iuz beneath Castle Greyhawk.) Murlynd dwells in a variety of unusual planes and demiplanes, moving between his various abodes as suits his mood.
Murlynd's priests, who are identified by his holy symbol, a silver-plated six-pointed star with rounded points, strive to uphold the virtues of law and good, and often work with the clergy of Heironeous toward this end. They use their knowledge of technology to aid the common man, and are encouraged to invent new devices and improve upon old ones. They work to destroy extremely dangerous magical or technological devices, and often find themselves working toward this end with followers of Phaulkon. They consider the book titled Murlynd's Early Adventures & Subsequent Ventures to be their holy book.

No mention of Paladinhood, but if I am reading this right, he may have been a Lawful Good Fighter/Magic-User.

Beelzebub1111
2010-10-20, 03:08 PM
He also was a paladin, IIRC.
True...Lemmie think.

OH! Kelanen was just a fighter, I think. Heward was a bard if I'm not mistaken. Kyuss was a necromancer.

137ben
2010-10-24, 06:51 PM
I had the impression the 20 outsider HD were only for naturally formed gods. Check out some of the risen ones, in particular Imhotep. The 20HD are just a way for the printed gods to be less massively multiclassed, since they don't use the epic rules.

Yes. Actually, the RAW say "Most deities are 20 HD outsiders with 30 to 50 character levels as well."
You don't automatically get 20 HD, or 30-50 class levels:smallsmile:

Myth
2010-10-25, 02:45 AM
You are right, I looked at Cyric's entry in Faiths and Pantheons, he has a pathetic 661 HP compared to Chauntea's 1308.

grimbold
2010-10-25, 04:04 AM
if you want the stinkiest cheese out there you could go for scion...
that gets you to being almost a god
if you rp right you can become a rank 0 or 1 deity

dsmiles
2010-10-25, 04:26 AM
if you want the stinkiest cheese out there you could...

...order the Catoblepas Death Cheese from Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue. :smallcool:

FelixG
2010-10-25, 04:45 AM
Find a low divine rank god, beat on him, kill him, rinse repeat untill you all have some divine ranks then hunt down more powerful gods and gather their ranks ect.

Then proceed to gather worshipers on the mortal plane showing off how awesome of gods you are until you are major deities!

Myth
2010-10-25, 05:20 AM
Find a low divine rank god, beat on him, kill him, rinse repeat untill you all have some divine ranks then hunt down more powerful gods and gather their ranks ect.

Then proceed to gather worshipers on the mortal plane showing off how awesome of gods you are until you are major deities!

And how do you plan on actually killing a Deity without having Divine Ranks yourself in a game with an actual DM (not RAW TO exploits) The first time you try it you get plastered by Salient Death. Bye bye.

And if you try to bring Epic magic as an option, just remember this - all the Deities have access to it. They've had access to it before you. They have entire temples with thousands of casters who can sacrifice spell slots for them. You are screwed.

Granted, the entires in Deities and Demigods and Faiths and Pantheons are laughable, 3.0, not using Epic material and very, very unoptimized. But Supreme Initiative + Salient Death means you die. Alter Reality means they have all your magical tricks+all the other magical tricks. Made permanent. Inside an AMF that doesn't affect them. Epic magic is a nuclear arms race, but they have thousands of silos scattered across the glove, while you are still mining uranium by yourself using a pickaxe.

So... I can't see aventurers beating a God unless there's Plot + MacGuffin+DESTINY involved. So it's ultimately only viable via DM fiat.

FelixG
2010-10-25, 05:27 AM
Well myth, there are some low level once human deities that arnt too terribly difficult to stomp out of existence, Himotep i think from the Egyptian pantheon is particularly squishy.

And so what if the deities and demigods are not optimized? They can stomp most people into the ground just fine, doesn't mean the players should give up their goal :P

grimbold
2010-10-25, 05:41 AM
if you use a dominate monster spell on something w/ uber high cr you could probs overthrow a god. Of course it would take a ridiculous build to make your save dcs high enough for said monster to fail. My recommendation is fatespinner 5/wizard 5/ some other save dc boosting prc 10
and various metamagic feats

Myth
2010-10-25, 05:43 AM
Well myth, there are some low level once human deities that arnt too terribly difficult to stomp out of existence, Himotep i think from the Egyptian pantheon is particularly squishy.

And so what if the deities and demigods are not optimized? They can stomp most people into the ground just fine, doesn't mean the players should give up their goal :P

Imhotep is DR1 and pathetic. But the most you can gain from him is Divine Rank 1. And the wrath of a greater deity. In a game where the DM does not want you to gain Divine Rank, you can't. These are not Goblins to be farmed for XP. The scenario will most likely be as such:

1. Plane Shift next to Imhotep. Beat him up. He dies.
2. Attempt to gather his Divine essence. You gain Divine Rank 1. Choose a SLA.
3. ALTER REALITY, I CHOOSE YOU! *grin*
4. Isis uses Gift of Life to restore Imhotep. Isis casts Gate and peeks at the party.
5. Salient Death, everybody dies. Divine essence goes back to Imhotep.

Now, if the DM does want you to become Deities (I know I probably will allow my players to ascend past the end of the Epic campaign), then he will give you the power of plot to work with.

Myth
2010-10-25, 05:45 AM
if you use a dominate monster spell on something w/ uber high cr you could probs overthrow a god. Of course it would take a ridiculous build to make your crs high enough for said monster to fail. My recommendation is fatespinner 5/wizard 5/ some other save dc boosting prc 10
and various metamagic feats

It doesn't matter how high it's CR is it can't survive Salient Death and Supreme Initiative.

grimbold
2010-10-25, 05:48 AM
fair enough

Beelzebub1111
2010-10-25, 08:49 AM
You don't have to kill anybody, you just have to work really really hard and be the best at what you do. With luck, one deity will sponsor you to begin your ascent (hero deity) or you could perfect your craft to the point where no one is better (something esoteric thet there isn't a god for yet) then boom, godhood.

grimbold
2010-10-25, 09:36 AM
or you could perfect your craft to the point where no one is better (something esoteric thet there isn't a god for yet) then boom, godhood.
kind of like jimmy page? or the man i saw last night? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173287)