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letters
2010-10-20, 12:01 AM
I'm starting a gestalt campaign soon and one of my PC's is wanting to play a warforged sneak attack variant fighter/monk character. I thought it was a cool idea, but now he's talking about using unarmed strike as a two handed weapon by interlocking his fingers and swinging, then going the shock trooper charging feet route, and I'm not so sure that would work...

my question is, would you here at gitp see me as a rules lawyer for denying this?


srd:

Unarmed Strike

At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monkís attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may even make unarmed strikes with her hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply her full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all her unarmed strikes.

and unarmed strikes don't receive the damage bonus from power attack...

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#powerAttack

Temotei
2010-10-20, 12:12 AM
Unarmed strikes are considered light weapon attacks. By RAW, you're fine.

Maybe, if you're worried about it, you could make a compromise. Interlocking your fists in this manner is difficult, doing one of the following (you (as the DM) choose): 1. Reducing the number of attacks the warrior gets by one, to a minimum of one (or two on a flurry of blows attack), or 2. Incurring a penalty to attacks.

Of course, it's up to you. You're the DM.

Reynard
2010-10-20, 12:14 AM
Special

If you attack with a two-handed weapon, or with a one-handed weapon wielded in two hands, instead add twice the number subtracted from your attack rolls. You canít add the bonus from Power Attack to the damage dealt with a light weapon (except with unarmed strikes or natural weapon attacks), even though the penalty on attack rolls still applies. (Normally, you treat a double weapon as a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. If you choose to use a double weapon like a two-handed weapon, attacking with only one end of it in a round, you treat it as a two-handed weapon.)

So yes, he can get Power Attack damage. The swinging two-handed thing is entirely up to the DM.

letters
2010-10-20, 12:18 AM
cool, thanks for the reply's. I like the idea of reducing the number of attacks by one, I bet that will work fine.

Mongoose87
2010-10-20, 12:26 AM
I think there's a feat somewhere, probably OA, that lets you treat your unarmed strike as a two-hander. It's called Hammer Fist, IIRC.

letters
2010-10-20, 12:32 AM
I think there's a feat somewhere, probably OA, that lets you treat your unarmed strike as a two-hander. It's called Hammer Fist, IIRC.

i just found it in races of faerun, that's perfect

Keld Denar
2010-10-20, 12:52 AM
I think there's a feat somewhere, probably OA, that lets you treat your unarmed strike as a two-hander. It's called Hammer Fist Captain Kirk Overhead Hamfist Strike, IIRC.

Fixed that for ya...

DementedFellow
2010-10-20, 01:58 AM
Wait guys, I'm confused.

So would PA work on a regular unarmed strike? I always thought it would. But now I'm not sure.

Keld Denar
2010-10-20, 01:59 AM
It does. Reread post 3 on this thread, specifically:


Special

If you attack with a two-handed weapon, or with a one-handed weapon wielded in two hands, instead add twice the number subtracted from your attack rolls. You canít add the bonus from Power Attack to the damage dealt with a light weapon (except with unarmed strikes or natural weapon attacks), even though the penalty on attack rolls still applies. (Normally, you treat a double weapon as a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. If you choose to use a double weapon like a two-handed weapon, attacking with only one end of it in a round, you treat it as a two-handed weapon.)

It would be 1:1, unless you had something else to modify this, such as the above mentioned feat in the above mentioned book.

Souhiro
2010-10-20, 02:12 AM
Since you are the GM, there is a NICE resolution to his "Two Handed Needs": Say that the NPC Dwarf, or the local blacksmith (Every campaing has one of these) went to the eastern side, and met some orientals. He came back with nice ideas for weapons... but are mostly hard to wield.

So, your NPC can make sword for monks, that are exotic weapons -even for a fighter or a monk- and needs the feat, but they can be used in the Flurry of Blows. And a Two Handed Monk Weapon "spends" two attacks of the flurry for attack. Or One-plus-half attacks, if you're merciful.
(Keep in mind that if the monk has 4 attacks in his flurry and the "Monk 2H Sword" uses 1'5 attacks per swing, the monk could swing it two times, and deliver a kick or headbutt with the remaining attack.

Other way would be to sell a -EXOTIC- set of wrist-weights, that needs exotic feat, and wearing it set the attack with arms as Power-Attacks (His punchs would be power attacks, but his kicks, stomps and headbutts would be still normal attacks) He still needs to spend a feat, exotic in place of Power Attack, and everyone will be happy.

That would be my solution. In my game-set, the blacksmits can do most anything, but it is usually kinda exotic...


And about interlocking his fingers... put that player any martial arts movie. the fighters don't repeat a move constantly, and switch from kicks, punchs, throws... Interlocking fingers can be cool made from a Gaogaigar, but someone else can't. And trying to "Smash" with interlocking fingers have you putting all the force from one arm, instead of two.

Souhiro
2010-10-20, 02:55 AM
Sorry for Multi-Post:

http://dnd.savannahsoft.eu/feat-1334-hammer-fist.html


Hammer Fist
[Racial]

You are trained in an unarmed fighting style that emphasizes a two-handed strike.

Prerequisite: Improved Unarmed Strike, STR 13, dwarf

Benefit: You add one and a half times your Strength bonus on your damage when you hit with an unarmed strike. This extra damage does not apply if you make a flurry of blows attack or if you are holding anything in either hand. You must use both hands to make the unarmed attack.

Rulebook: Races of Faerun (p. 164)

Edition: Forgotten Realms (3.0)

Only dWARfs can use this feat, nor can be used in a flurry. And a "Two Handed Strike" can be a double-punch, hit with your left elbow while pushing that your left fist with your right arm, clutching someone with two hands... you know, EVANGELIONs made plenty of this, when berserks.

Prime32
2010-10-20, 07:49 AM
Hammer Fist
[Racial]

You are trained in an unarmed fighting style that emphasizes a two-handed strike.

Prerequisite: Improved Unarmed Strike, STR 13, dwarf

Benefit: You add one and a half times your Strength bonus on your damage when you hit with an unarmed strike. This extra damage does not apply if you make a flurry of blows attack or if you are holding anything in either hand. You must use both hands to make the unarmed attack.

Rulebook: Races of Faerun (p. 164)

Edition: Forgotten Realms (3.0) Only dWARfs can use this feat, nor can be used in a flurry. And a "Two Handed Strike" can be a double-punch, hit with your left elbow while pushing that your left fist with your right arm, clutching someone with two hands... you know, EVANGELIONs made plenty of this, when berserks.

It's in another source too, which lacks the dwarf requirement.

And while you can't use Flurry of Blows, you can use Decisive Strike (PHB2? variant that replaces flurry - full attack becomes single attack that deals double damage, improves as you level). Get pounce somehow, wear those magic sandals that double unarmed damage on a charge, and go smash some skulls.

Telonius
2010-10-20, 07:49 AM
Personally I would rule that the Monk can use his unarmed strike two-handed. After all, he could get a Ki Focus quarterstaff and apply Unarmed Strike+(1.5*Strength) to a normal attack. Why not cut out the middleman and allow it normally?

However, I'd also rule that combining a two-handed strike with Flurry of Blows wouldn't allow 1.5*Str damage. Precedent is the Flurry section, which specifically states that all weapons (even 2h weapons like a Quarterstaff) only add Str to damage when used in a Flurry of Blows. That suggests to me that 2h weapons (unarmed strikes or otherwise) don't gain their normal advantages when used in Flurry.

EDIT: Regarding Power Attack and how it interacts with all of that:
Normal 1H Unarmed Attack + Power Attack: -1 Attack = +1 Damage, add 1*Str Damage
Normal 2H Unarmed Attack + Power Attack: -1 Attack = +2 Damage, add 1.5*Str Damage
Flurry 1H Unarmed Attack + Power Attack: -1 Attack = +1 Damage, add 1*Str Damage
Flurry 2H Unarmed Attack + Power Attack: -1 Attack = +1 Damage, add 1*Str Damage

Coidzor
2010-10-20, 08:21 AM
Flurry and Power Attack together would gimp one's to-hit way too much for anything more than the barest minimum, even if one were benefiting from a wraithstrike caddy.

So it doesn't really seem worth it to combine it with Flurry unless one also had the feats to go into shocktrooper and had pounce....

Starbuck_II
2010-10-20, 08:25 AM
It's in another source too, which lacks the dwarf requirement.

And while you can't use Flurry of Blows, you can use Decisive Strike (PHB2? variant that replaces flurry - full attack becomes single attack that deals double damage, improves as you level). Get pounce somehow, wear those magic sandals that double unarmed damage on a charge, and go smash some skulls.

Get both:
(Unarmed + 1.5 Str ) x2 damage. Add in power attack (since it doubles it).