Facial Grooming and You

[Lev]

This thread is about facial hair.

First off, what do people in a fantasy world do about their facial hair? Most examples are clean shaven, but how does the average joe get that "freshly shaved" look?

I mean, are razors even invented? Will a peasant lucky to have more than a SP in his pocket have an effective shaving tool?

Will the average knife, water and possibly soap do the trick?

[Kurald Galain]

Will the average knife, water and possibly soap do the trick?

Um, yes? What did you think people IRL did before Gilette was invented?

Also, there are whole races out there that simply don't have facial hair.

Of course, I hear the Dwarf Look is all the fashion this year... :smalltongue:

[Lev]

Um, yes? What did you think people IRL did before Gilette was invented?

Also, there are whole races out there that simply don't have facial hair.

Of course, I hear the Dwarf Look is all the fashion this year... :smalltongue:
Didn't know, not up on my pre-razor beardology.

Next question:

Can a wild dwarf who has beard armor use the beard as a shield bash?

[Coidzor]

Elves, they just don't grow it.

*Manliest Elf in the World walks into a bar*

Dwarf: Nice... Mustache... :smallamused:
Elf: Thanks

And of course, we all know what happens when Warlord Mustache walks into a bar. (http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/96/mustached.png)


I mean, are razors even invented? Will a peasant lucky to have more than a SP in his pocket have an effective shaving tool?

Will the average knife, water and possibly soap do the trick?

On topic... We have evidence of Neolithic razors, IIRC. Certainly we managed to get them by bronze in da real world if not from our experiments with native copper. I believe certain cultures also just plain tweezed. I think this was mostly mentioned in regards to cultures in the Americas.

I believe one test of whether a pocket knife is properly sharpened is either if it can cut hair or if it can shave off a section of one's arm hair. So, a knife could be sharpened enough to be near a straight razor in sharpness, but it probably wouldn't be a general purpose utility/eating knife.

[Greenish]

On topic... We have evidence of Neolithic razors, IIRC. Certainly we managed to get them by bronze in da real world if not from our experiments with native copper.Damn you, I was going to post this but the forum had a hick-up.

Well, I'll be damned if that prevents me! Here:


Didn't know, not up on my pre-razor beardology.Razors have been in use since before the bronze age. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Razor) I should think the inhabitants of the Standard Fantasy World would have an access to them, too.

[Kurald Galain]

Elves, they just don't grow it.

You sure about that? (http://www.thegremlin.com/Website%20Images/CA/15915ca.JPG)

[Coidzor]

Damn you, I was going to post this but the forum had a hick-up.

Well, I'll be damned if that prevents me! Here:

Well, it was really whichever one of us was less patient with the hiccup that got through first, since it caught me too.


In regards to beard armor and shield bashing... (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6404306)


You sure about that? (http://www.thegremlin.com/Website%20Images/CA/15915ca.JPG)

Clearly prostheses.

[PopcornMage]

There's a book where a fighter type used some sort of herbal salve to deal with the problem.

Obviously the author though that more logical than using his magic sword.

BTW, do note there's hair besides facial.

[klemdakherzbag]

Actually a knife that is razor sharp is the classic standard for DIY knife sharpeners. And is very useful as a general purpose knife.

[Lev]

Actually a knife that is razor sharp is the classic standard for DIY knife sharpeners. And is very useful as a general purpose knife.
Did you mean knife aligner*?

[Serpentine]

Didn't know about the ancient razors, but I knew knives were used.
Arsenic was used for body hair, too. Wouldn't expect it'd be used on the face, though...

[Quietus]

Personally, I've always just allowed Prestidigitation to do it, as well as a general dagger/knife. Bonus points if it was bought strictly for that purpose.

[dsmiles]

I believe certain cultures also just plain tweezed. I think this was mostly mentioned in regards to cultures in the Americas.

Ouch. At least they didn't wax...:smalleek:

[Lev]

Personally, I've always just allowed Prestidigitation to do it, as well as a general dagger/knife. Bonus points if it was bought strictly for that purpose.
That sir, is a great idea.

[Radar]

Ouch. At least they didn't wax...:smalleek:
Not that much, if you consider the fact, that their facial hair was much weaker then that on european people.

[Psyx]

Didn't know about the ancient razors, but I knew knives were used.
Arsenic was used for body hair, too. Wouldn't expect it'd be used on the face, though...

Considering the use of belladonna and other grim stuff for eye make-up and lead-based make-up, it wouldn't surprise me.



Ouch. At least they didn't wax...

Waxing thins the hair down over time, so in the long-term it's the best thing to do, as eventually hair pretty much stops growing there.

...Wherever 'there' might be!!! :smalleek:

[Greenish]

Waxing thins the hair down over time, so in the long-term it's the best thing to do, as eventually hair pretty much stops growing there.So it's recommended for evil twins who wish to hide the fact?

[Curmudgeon]

Real adventurers trim their beards short enough that they can't be grabbed in a fight, and otherwise leave them alone.

[dsmiles]

Real adventurers trim their beards short enough that they can't be grabbed in a fight, and otherwise leave them alone.

:smallconfused:
Dwarves aren't real adventurers?

[Greenish]

:smallconfused:
Dwarves aren't real adventurers?Dwarves have armour spikes in their beard to prevent enemies grabbing it.

[Edit]: Braid blades… I never realized.

[dsmiles]

Really, I though it was just another fist under there...:smallcool:

[Kurald Galain]

Considering the use of belladonna and other grim stuff for eye make-up and lead-based make-up, it wouldn't surprise me.

Considering people use the extremely lethal botulinum toxin right now... yeah, no surprise for me, either.

[NEO|Phyte]

Facial hair is for people with flesh to grow it in.

[thompur]

You sure about that? (http://www.thegremlin.com/Website%20Images/CA/15915ca.JPG)

This guy too! (http://www.elfquest.com/pubs/bios/Wolfriders/Treestump.html)

[Keld Denar]

Ouch. At least they didn't wax...:smalleek:

Actually, sugaring (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugaring_(epilation)), waxing's great great great great grandfather, was started in ancient Egypt. Its also still used today. Its basically wax made from sugar, but much different from modern waxing.

Also, I think this would have been a topic most appropriate for Random Banter, rather than Gaming, unless it applies primarily for adventurers. PS, none of my characters are ever bearded, except for my dwarves.

[dsmiles]

PS, none of my characters are ever bearded, except for my dwarves.

See? It fits in roleplaying! We're talking about characters, here. :smalltongue:

[Greenish]

This guy too! (http://www.elfquest.com/pubs/bios/Wolfriders/Treestump.html)I'm not sure brother Fornicates-with-wolves counts.

[MarkusWolfe]

Real adventurers trim their beards short enough that they can't be grabbed in a fight, and otherwise leave them alone.

Unless they are barbarians, in which case they have magnificent beards which put the dwarves to shame.

[Kurald Galain]

I'm not sure brother Fornicates-with-wolves counts.

What about Círdan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Círdan), does he count?

[Saintheart]

On a slightly more serious note, I understand in medieval times men would shave by rubbing a rough pumice stone across their faces; they're still used occasionally by women even today to get rid of dead skin on the bottom of their feet.

And no, I'm not telling you how I know the latter fact.

[Greenish]

What about Círdan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Círdan), does he count?The ring he had helped him to grow a beard. Much like with Gandalf. (It's a little known fact that Gandalf didn't have a beard until he received of the three elven power rings.)

[Psyx]

Considering people use the extremely lethal botulinum toxin right now... yeah, no surprise for me, either.

The link between stupidity and vanity.... another Stormwind-esque Fallacy?



And no, I'm not telling you how I know the latter fact.

Errr... doesn't EVERYONE have a pumice-stone in the bathroom for exactly this reason? :smallconfused:

[Kaeso]

Didn't the romans pay people to shave them after going to a bathhouse? I remember hearing something like that in Latin class.

[Duke of URL]

If you can slip a vorpal enhancement on somebody's shaving knife, does that mean that he has a 5% of decapitating himself each time he shaves?

[Spiryt]

Didn't the romans pay people to shave them after going to a bathhouse? I remember hearing something like that in Latin class.

Wealthy Romans had slaves for shaving, nails and stuff....

Generally, I don't quite get what is this thread about. Did people shaved in different cultures? Yes, quite often. They'll probably do it as well in many fantasy settings.

Ta da. :smalltongue:

[PopcornMage]

In some editions, death by shaving was a very real possibility.

[klemdakherzbag]

Did you mean knife aligner*?
No, by DIY (do it yourself) I mean using a whetstone and manually taking the blade across til the proper edge is acquired

[AdamSmasher]

Get an Eternal Wand of Presitidigitation. There's no reason for your group to be without it. Twice a day you can use it to clean everyone up, wash your clothes, bathe, shave, cologne/perfume, and style your hair so it's always perfect when you land the final strike on that Troll.

[Coidzor]

Cirdan was the result of a mix up on IluvitarIlúvatar's part, wherein one of the original dwarf souls ended up in the body of an elf who was very, very unhappy until his inner dwarfiness finally manifested while he was building stuff and through sheer force of will he forced off his chin and sprang forth with a beard.


Really, I though it was just another fist under there...:smallcool:

No, no, no, the beard is literally a fist. of hairBeard.

[Seffbasilisk]

No, by DIY (do it yourself) I mean using a whetstone and manually taking the blade across til the proper edge is acquired

Actually for shaving, you'll want a finer edge than most can get on a whetstone. I've learned how to do it by stone, but most will want a length of leather to strop the blade.

My characters generally have beards if they're of a race that grows'm, and yeah, after a while adventuring, they've grown out, been burned by fireballs, dissolved by acid, gotten snaggly, bits of tree-bark and dead foes in them...

The dwarves meticulously clean, comb, and rebraid. The humans...not so much.

Gnomes do have it easier with prestidigitation, but that's for cleaning, not shaving...


I did have a troll-blooded character who used a corrosive sword to shave...

[bansidhe]

Plucking,flint blades and various waxing techniques.

Mussel shells,while still connected were widely used as tweezers...and a basic knapped flint sdge will beat your gilette anyday.

One historical quote from,I belive ,roman times.[when any body hair was regard as barbaric] says that the street of barbers etc was next too the slaughter houses,and when it was busy the screams of the men being de-haired used too drown out the sounds of the animals being slaughtered!

Thankgod for Bic and hot water! :D

[Spiryt]

One historical quote from,I belive ,roman times.[when any body hair was regard as barbaric] says that the street of barbers etc was next too the slaughter houses,and when it was busy the screams of the men being de-haired used too drown out the sounds of the animals being slaughtered!



Eh, that would heavily depend on what you mean by "roman times" by I believe that clean shaved Romans is pretty much a myth...

Link (http://pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Plik:Marcus_Aurelius_Glyptothek_Mu nich.jpg&filetimestamp=20070414010633)

Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Constarch_d4.jpg)

[Lev]

No, by DIY (do it yourself) I mean using a whetstone and manually taking the blade across til the proper edge is acquired
Ah, I thought you were implying carrying around a sharp knife to align the other knife.

[Ravens_cry]

If you don't believe that neolithic man could shave, watch this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWSTE6WLB0Y)

[Randel]

I always figured that a wizard could start off each day with a prestidigitation spell and a mirror to shave their face, clean off any dirt or grime, fix up their hair, and otherwise prepare for the day.

Really, shaving, cutting, cleaning, or braiding hair should be perfectly within the powers of prestidigitation and it lasts an hour. So one casting of prestidigitation could fill all the needs of cleaining their clothes, showering, and fixing themselves up before a new day of adventuring.

[klemdakherzbag]

Alternatively you could always get a Pixie to do your hair. She kept my Minotaurs hair braided in cornrows.

[MarkusWolfe]

I did have a troll-blooded character who used a corrosive sword to shave...

Nice.


If you don't believe that neolithic man could shave, watch this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWSTE6WLB0Y)

MANLINESS.

[Ormur]

If you don't believe that neolithic man could shave, watch this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWSTE6WLB0Y)

There'll obviously be no reason to let the fall of modern civilization impact your daily grooming.

[KillianHawkeye]

Real adventurers trim their beards short enough that they can't be grabbed in a fight, and otherwise leave them alone.

:smallconfused:
Dwarves aren't real adventurers?

Dwarves use their beards to grab other creatures while fighting. :smallwink::smallbiggrin:

[Lev]

That's one huge chunk of obsidian.

[Rockphed]

Unless they are barbarians, in which case they have magnificent beards which put the dwarves to shame.

Odd, my image of barbarians is always clean shaven(or at most a goatee). It is my monk and paladin image that includes beards. Also rogues, but they always have a goatee for proper "evil" stroking while they plot to make off with all the gold plating on the paladin's armor.


Cirdan was the result of a mixup on Iluvitar's part, wherein one of the original dwarf souls ended up in the body of an elf who was very, very unhappy until his inner dwarfiness finally manifested while he was building stuff and through sheer force of will he forced off his chin and sprang forth with a beard.

No, no, no, the beard is literally a fist. of hair.

Wow, that makes lots of sense actually.

[dgnslyr]

Wealthy Romans had slaves for shaving, nails and stuff....



If you were rich, you could have a slave to do anything for you. Anything.

[Serpentine]

Dwarves have armour spikes in their beard to prevent enemies grabbing it.

[Edit]: Braid blades… I never realized.You read Tamora Pierce's Terrier? The main character of that likes to keep her hair long, but because she knows of the danger of it getting grabbed in a fight, she plaits it tight with blades in it.

[Coidzor]

You read Tamora Pierce's Terrier? The main character of that likes to keep her hair long, but because she knows of the danger of it getting grabbed in a fight, she plaits it tight with blades in it.

Hmm, wonder what kind of blades one would need to keep from being outclassed by a decent pair of gauntlets...:smallconfused:

[John Campbell]

My current character, a half-orc barbarian, doesn't grow much in the way of facial hair, but his sideburns are long and thick enough to braid (and he does).

My last character, a human rogue, had the kind of ancestry where if he shaved in the morning, he had a 5 o'clock shadow by noon. He typically kept it at "manly stubble" for deliberate effect... using a +1 keen adamantine kukri which was actually named Razor.

The character before that was a dwarf. He didn't worry much about foes grabbing his beard, because he routinely prepared fire shield.

[Spiryt]

You read Tamora Pierce's Terrier? The main character of that likes to keep her hair long, but because she knows of the danger of it getting grabbed in a fight, she plaits it tight with blades in it.

Haven't read, but sounds like a way to get your scalp ruined by your own effort...

If you know you're going to fight with swords and stuff, wear a helmet, that's that simple. :smallwink:

[dsmiles]

Odd, my image of barbarians is always clean shaven(or at most a goatee). It is my monk and paladin image that includes beards. Also rogues, but they always have a goatee for proper "evil" stroking while they plot to make off with all the gold plating on the paladin's armor.

Agreed, although my clerics usually have the short-bearded 'rugged' look to them as well. Especially ones in full plate, wielding warhammers (or ginormous maces).

[Serpentine]

Hmm, wonder what kind of blades one would need to keep from being outclassed by a decent pair of gauntlets...:smallconfused:
Haven't read, but sounds like a way to get your scalp ruined by your own effort...

If you know you're going to fight with swords and stuff, wear a helmet, that's that simple. :smallwink:She's a cop, mostly working in the slums. Fairly unlikely to come across gauntlets or swords.

Here's the passage, anyway: "I wear my hair long as my one vanity. I know it offers an opponent a grip, but I have learned to tight-braid it from the crown of my head. I also have a spiked strap to braid into it, so that any who seize my braid will regret it."
I'm nearly 2/3 of the way through the book and it hasn't been mentioned again once, but I expect it to play some part in the climax.

[Spiryt]

Unless he grabs it somewhere else....

Even if someone managed to make it work somehow, quilted hood, even without helmet on it, would be 200 times simpler and better solution.

But what would fantasy be without somehow more flashy stuff. :smallwink:

[Amiel]

A clean, sharp blade (but not a vorpal blade), a steady hand and a good eye.
Or, alternatively, magic; prestidigitation?

[Coidzor]

She's a cop, mostly working in the slums. Fairly unlikely to come across gauntlets or swords.

Here's the passage, anyway: "I wear my hair long as my one vanity. I know it offers an opponent a grip, but I have learned to tight-braid it from the crown of my head. I also have a spiked strap to braid into it, so that any who seize my braid will regret it."
I'm nearly 2/3 of the way through the book and it hasn't been mentioned again once, but I expect it to play some part in the climax.

Huh. Thought she mostly did fantasy. Certainly that excerpt sounds that way. "Seize my braid," indeed...


Unless he grabs it somewhere else....

Even if someone managed to make it work somehow, quilted hood, even without helmet on it, would be 200 times simpler and better solution.

But what would fantasy be without somehow more flashy stuff. :smallwink:

That's why they introduced Ysgardian He-Man armor, after all.

....That and being able to say that a breast plate was literally a plate over the breasts and some string...

[dsmiles]

....That and being able to say that a breast plate was literally a plate over the breasts and some string...

As long as you don't use my good china for that. :smallcool:

[Amiel]

....That and being able to say that a breast plate was literally a plate over the breasts and some string...

Sometimes you also get odd materials, mithral, dragonhide, leaf armour, spidersilk armour

[NeoRetribution]

You people... Lev, your thread has given me visions of a Vicious Wounding Vorpal Pumice Stone which all females carry to defend themselves while grooming.

Additional Edit:
And now that I think of it I would like to see a sacred elven artifact that does that...One which specializes in facial grooming.

[Amiel]

That's why their legs are so divinely smooth :smallsmile:

[Serpentine]

Unless he grabs it somewhere else...What? :smallconfused: The point of the passage is that she tight braids her hair, so that there's nowhere except the braid - which she knows is risky - to grab.

Even if someone managed to make it work somehow, quilted hood, even without helmet on it, would be 200 times simpler and better solution.Or, you know, wear your hair short and less easy to grab. Which is the point - she's not doing that, and compensating for it. In another book, another character makes a point of wearing her hair short because it's grabable.

Huh. Thought she mostly did fantasy. Certainly that excerpt sounds that way. "Seize my braid," indeed...She does (though she has done a superhero comic book...). It's a medieval fantasy cop :smalltongue:

[Coidzor]

It's a medieval fantasy cop :smalltongue:

Ew. No. Vimes has ruined her already.

[Serpentine]

Ew. No. Vimes has ruined her already.Oh man, I've managed to read most of the book without thinking of Vimes. Thanks :smallsigh:
Eh, it's not her best, but it's still solid Pierce.

edit: And now I've gone and called Sherlock Holmes "Vimes" to my boyfriend and housemate :smallsigh: :smallannoyed:

[Matthew]

Eh, that would heavily depend on what you mean by "roman times" by I believe that clean shaved Romans is pretty much a myth...

Link (http://pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Plik:Marcus_Aurelius_Glyptothek_Mu nich.jpg&filetimestamp=20070414010633)

Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Constarch_d4.jpg)

It just relates to particular periods. Increased adoption of Greek/Hellenistic culture changed Roman sensibilities towards beards. Most hilarious of all is the "beard haters (http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/julian-mispogon.html)", a short treatise written by Julian the Apostate (who favoured Greek-Pagan culture) who has a bone to pick with the effeminate beardless Christians of (if I recall correctly) Antioch.

[oxybe]

the only elf allowed to have a beard, since he earned it through all the BS he's been through over the last few decades. (http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showpost.php?p=746723&postcount=66)

[Ravens_cry]

So elves grow beards through sexual repression? Then explain all the Elf Quest elves!

[Lev]

You people... Lev, your thread has given me visions of a Vicious Wounding Vorpal Pumice Stone which all females carry to defend themselves while grooming.

Additional Edit:
And now that I think of it I would like to see a sacred elven artifact that does that...One which specializes in facial grooming.


Or

Drow Grooming Poison
DC15 Fort
Primary- Lose all body hair.
Secondary- Lose all hair.

[dgnslyr]

Silverbeard is the best spell ever.

[Thufir]

I mean, are razors even invented? Will a peasant lucky to have more than a SP in his pocket have an effective shaving tool?

Will the average knife, water and possibly soap do the trick?

First time I played D&D 3.5, we all had razors, except the fighter, who just shaved with his dagger, and me, a sorcerer. I shaved with prestidigitation.


Elves, they just don't grow it.


What about Círdan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Círdan), does he count?

Indeed.
I think it was partly based on the example of Círdan that my gaming group decided elves could only grow facial hair if they wanted to. And if they wanted to, it would immediately sprout from their face in the style they wanted, then stop growing again.

[Darth Stabber]

I had an elf sorcerer win a "Most Frivolous Wish" contest by wishing he could grow a mustache, beating "I wish the Dwarf's beard would disappear", "I wish I had a prehensile tail", and "I wish I had a flagon of the world's best beer".

[Cerlis]

I thought the average joe back in old times was bearded, only time you'd waste your time shaving is when it got so long as to be in the way. I mean wasnt for most of history in most cultures a beard was just another bodypart to be groomed and make you look manly and cultured?

[PopcornMage]

Depends on the culture. There's variety both ways throughout a long range of history.

[TheThan]

If you play a dwarf, you don’t have to worry about anything.

Did you know that a dwarf’s beard is the source of all dwarf’s dwarfyness? Without their beard, a dwarf turns into a gnome!

[Ormur]

It's interesting, from what I understand beards were popular in the middle ages, less so during the renaissance, then popular again in the 16th century and very unfashionable and even barbaric in the 17th and 18th century. Then during the mid 19th century everybody starts sporting those huge beards to match their frock coats but after the early 20th century beards again start to disappear to reach a low in the 60s after which the 68 generation makes them more fashionable or probably just a sign of rebellion.

Now it's like beards are mostly worn by certain types of men in their 20's and older academic types, where I guess they've always been popular.

[Amiel]

Dwarven Beards
Dwarves have beards (this is more or less an established fact), not only are these beards an indication of their stature and prowess in their community, but it is a boundless and free source of food. What they eat is also deposited in their beards, so that it can be saved for later and eaten at their leisure; this would account for their stature and rotundness.
This would likely mean a symbolic relationship, wherein there are creatures in their beards that grow and plant food for them in their beards in exchange for beer or food spilt, gems and other shiny things.
Indeed, many have speculated that perhaps a dwarves' beard is an extradimensional portal to a demiplane, a bag of holding if you will.

More Beard Feat
Prerequisites: Dwarven, or must have a beard
Benefits: Your beard becomes thicker and more luxuriant, granting you a +2 natural armour bonus.

Beard Wars
Adventure idea
Within this world, beards - so luxuriant and common upon the faces of its inhabitants - have 'fled'. Now, all countenances are clean-shaven and in need of facial hair; such a cosmetic change has only served to highlight the blemishes and imperfection inherent within a face that was previously covered by a growth of honourable hair.
As adventurers, it is your task to find the cause of this mystery, and if possible to bring it back. The natives will pay dearly.

[grimbold]

i think that in a world that doesnt really care about apearance but really just staying alive facial grooming is no big issue, but there were definetly medieval scissors and razors.