[3.5] Shadowcaster help

[The Rabbler]

My DM placed me in a group with the less-experienced players of our massive collection of people and asked that, for this next campaign, I play some sort of support character. My initial reaction was to make a buffing-focused wizard, but when I brought it up, it was shut down immediately (my DM doesn't want me to try out a full caster). So, looking around a bit for ideas, I came across the shadowcaster and found it weak enough to be allowed into our game.

The problem is, I don't know how to play a shadowcaster and I'm still not entirely sure whether or not I can play a support role with one. What's the playground's opinion on shadowcasters and how they work with a party? Would the shadowcaster be a suitable support caster to a completely unoptimized and very low-powered party?

(okay, that last part isn't entirely true. I did just recently show one of the players both the swordsage class and the aptitude weapons + kukris + lightning maces trick; but that should be the extent of the optimization.)

[Zaq]

This is even more critical with a shadowcaster than with other casters . . . what level are you playing at?

[The Rabbler]

I knew I forgot something. We're starting off at level 4.

[Zaq]

Huh. Well, that means that you're not going to have more than four or five mysteries per day, not counting fundamentals (which really require some creativity to be combat-worthy), and chances are pretty good that those are going to be four different mysteries per day. This is, of course, the shadowcaster's greatest weakness, but you knew that already.

Personally, I'm a big fan of the Dark Terrain path, because clogging up the battlefield is always a fun strategy for casters. Conceptually, I like the Night's Long Fingers path in the web enhancement to Cityscape, but it's kind of lackluster when it comprises fully half of your daily tricks, especially before you get the 3rd level mystery. I understand that Touch of Twilight and Shutters and Clouds are pretty decent.

Overall, the Shadowcaster's big problem is a really crippling lack of staying power. Even once you get a higher number of raw mysteries per day, you still can't change how your slots are devoted, so you have exactly the same number of castings to deal with whatever the day's challenges are. Combine this with the rather slow rate at which Shadowcasters gain mysteries, and it's very easy to find yourself in Crossbow Mode.

To have fun as a Shadowcaster, you basically need to find something to fall back on for the times when you can't or don't want to use a mystery. If your GM is willing to bend the rules a little bit, reserve feats are a nice solution (RAW, Shadowcasters don't qualify, but that's kind of dumb), but that relies on GM fiat and cannot be relied upon. A bag of alchemical items isn't a terrible stopgap (never underestimate the almighty tanglefoot bag), and if you were just a little bit higher level, I'd say that you could load up on magic items that do cool things no matter what your class is (like the Amber Amulet of Vermin, Rod of Viscid Globs, or the Thorn Pouch, all from MIC . . . actually, buying a couple Amber Amulets wouldn't hurt, but some GMs get snippy if you buy multiple copies of X uses/day gear and swap out), but your budget is kind of tight at 4th level. You just need to always have a backup plan ready, because the Shadowcaster WILL run out of useful things to do in any given situation. The things they do get are quite nifty, honestly . . . they just don't get enough of them.

Maybe if you went Azurin and spent all your feats (maybe even with flaws) on various forms of Shape Soulmeld and feats that grant essentia? Acidic Spittle with 1 essentia would give you a 2d6 ranged touch attack (which would very slowly scale with level, if you get more essentia through feats or something) at-will to fall back on . . . a bit boring, but greatly preferable to a crossbow or even to Arrow of Dusk. That would at least provide a backup option. Then take some of the more general-purpose or versatile melds, use your mysteries as much as you possibly can, and fall back on your melds when you can't. I bet you could even come up with some fun fluff for that if you put your mind to it.

Personally, I wouldn't play a level 4 Shadowcaster, but you might be able to make it work if you really work at it. Just expect a fair bit of frustration.

[gorfnab]

Try this:

Whisper Gnome Rogue 1/ Shadowcaster 3. Feats of Magic in the Blood (PGtF), Craven (CoR), Silencing Strike (RoS), Weapon Finesse (or Darkstalker - LoM), Still Mystery (bonus feat because of paths accessed) with two flaws. Fundamentals of Arrow of Dusk, Mystic Reflections, and Sight Obscured. Mysteries of Life Fades, Voice of Shadow (or Carpet of Shadows, but eventually having access to Flicker is I think a better choice), and Flesh Fails. With this set up you could possibly end up with something like Rogue 3/ Shadowcaster X / Arcane Trickster X if your DM allows Shadowcasting to qualify for Arcane Trickster (Whisper Gnome has Mage Hand otherwise just grab Umbral Hand at Shadowcaster level 4, and you get 3rd level "spells" at 5th level of Shadowcaster). Otherwise just advance more Shadowcaster or go into Child of Night, Master of Shadow, or Escalation Mage (FoE).

Or

Race (any, preferably Human) Wizard 1/ Shadowcaster 3 - feat of note is Precocious Apprentice (CA). Next level go into Notcumancer. Full build is Wizard 1/ Shadowcaster 3/ Noctumancer 10/ Mystic Theurge 6.

Try (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870562/A_Guide_to_Shadow_Magic) these (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19863834/CO_Diary:_The_Shadowcaster) links (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19866074/I_know_Im_gonna_get_some_flak_for_this,_but) for (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74519) Shadowcaster (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070307a) ideas. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9417.0)

Explanation of how Shadowcasting works

Level - Casting ability
1st - Fundamentals (basically cantrips) function as Supernatural Abilities, Apprentice Mysteries cast as arcane spells (somatic components, arcane spell failure, etc...pick up Still Mystery if you want to wear armor)
7th - Apprentice Mysteries function as Spell Like Abilities, Initiate Mysteries cast as arcane spells
13th - Apprentice Mysteries function as Supernatural Abilities, Initiate Mysteries function as Spell Like Abilities, Master Mysteries cast as arcane spells

When Mysteries are cast as arcane spells you can cast each of them 1/day
When Mysteries become Spell Like Abilities you can use each of them 2/day
When Mysteries become Supernatural Abilities you can use each of them 3/day

At 1st level you know 3 Fundamentals and 1 Mystery. You gain 1 Mystery known at every level (similar to how a Psychic Warrior and its Powers Known) and at 4th level and every 4 levels after you learn an additional Fundamental. At 14th level+ Fundamentals can be used at will.

You get bonus feats, chosen from a specific list, equal to half the total number of paths you have access to rounded down (I prefer to use the author's fix and go with whenever you complete a path you gain a bonus feat).

The level of Mysteries you can cast is equal to the same level of Wizard and what level of spells they can cast (ie. a 5th level Wizard can cast 3rd level spells, a 5th level Shadowcaster can cast 3rd level Mysteries).

[Psyren]

@ Zaq - Arrow of Dusk is a very combat-worthy fundamental. 2d4 ray x3 crit, no save no SR; even though it's nonlethal you can always knock something out for the Rogue to CDG. Up to 24 untyped damage with a cantrip, even nonlethal, is nothing to sneeze at.

I love Shadowcasters and don't think they get enough attention. Sure they're weak, but T4 is still quite playable.

With Mouseferatu (aka Ari Marmell, the class designer)'s suggested fixes (http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/184955-shadowcaster-fixes-mouseferatu.html) they can rise to T3, the sweet spot.

[Lans]

If your starting at level 4 the next 3 levels are going to be rough.
For fundamentals I would take
Black Candle: use it on a rock, put rock in hand, open hand when enemies attack. This will be your main buff to your allies for the next 3 levels
Liquid Night: Free ink that can be sold for a bit of cash. Or for marking locations or what not.
Mystic Reflections: Detect magic with out concentration.
Umbral Hand: Allows some movement can lift 20lbs so lifting curtains just as the enemy attacks seems like a plan.
Instead of Liquid Night, Shadow hood might be a decent use of minor debuff.

Ask your DM if you can have the supernatural effects at DC 10+1/2 level+stat(the normal rules) instead of the normal 10+stat that you have right now.

I'll post some other stuff later. But overall your going to need to put thought into your options and to struggle through 3 levels. Taking the metashadow feats will probably be good for an extra oomph. Extended Command go!

[The Rabbler]

I also forgot to mention: my DM has okayed mouseferatu's "rework" of the shadowcaster, so my DCs will be significantly higher, my bonus feats will be a bit lower, and I will be getting bonus spells/day via high int score (I think it's int. AFB atm).

I thank all of you for the suggestions, but I would like to emphasize that I am trying to build a support caster, not an offensive caster. I usually play the BSF that crushes encounters (despite playing less-than-optimal classes/character choices) so I'm trying to be a real team player this campaign. Offensive-type fundamentals/mysteries won't really be needed (perhaps besides Arrow of Dusk, but that would be about it).

Also, I bet I could get my DM to okay the cityscape enhancement, which would open up some interesting new mysteries. thanks again for the suggestions; I think I've got some idea of how to play this character now.

[Psyren]

I also forgot to mention: my DM has okayed mouseferatu's "rework" of the shadowcaster, so my DCs will be significantly higher, my bonus feats will be a bit lower, and I will be getting bonus spells/day via high int score (I think it's int. AFB atm).

If you are using Mouse's rework, you get bonus mysteries and save DCs from Cha. Int determines your highest mystery (meaning you only need 19 Int after items to get everything and the rest in Cha.)

This strengthens the Shadowcaster since you will want to be pumping Cha anyway (for higher DCs) and you get bonus mysteries as icing on the cake.

[Zaq]

@ Zaq - Arrow of Dusk is a very combat-worthy fundamental. 2d4 ray x3 crit, no save no SR; even though it's nonlethal you can always knock something out for the Rogue to CDG. Up to 24 untyped damage with a cantrip, even nonlethal, is nothing to sneeze at.

I love Shadowcasters and don't think they get enough attention. Sure they're weak, but T4 is still quite playable.

With Mouseferatu (aka Ari Marmell, the class designer)'s suggested fixes (http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/184955-shadowcaster-fixes-mouseferatu.html) they can rise to T3, the sweet spot.

2d4 on a touch attack is respectable at level 4. I'm not disputing that. The big problem is that you only get it 3/day, unless you sacrifice knowing other fundamentals for more copies of AoD. Since a level 4 shadowcaster is unlikely to want to use more than one non-fundamental mystery per encounter (maybe two if the situation calls for it), that's still a lot of rounds where you'll be choosing between the crossbow and maybe using Aid Another to give another backliner some more AC.

The problem with AoD isn't the damage. The problem is that it's unlikely to get you through the day.

[peacenlove]

Get Shadow Familiar at 3rd level (a bat) and cast black light to it. Mobile darkness (the bat can "see" in darkness due to its senses) that can seriously hinder your enemies. Due to a shadowcaster's higher hp total and the darkness's concealment your familiar will be relatively safe and your enemies confounded.
It also opens the way for improved familiar and all kinds of fun afterwards (dark coure eladrin = perfect use magic device slave, dark air elemental = perfect scout and others)

Use and buy shadow magic scrolls!
They are cheap, they can contain many useful but situational mysteries and they complement your crippled casting capacity nicely. An eternal wand of Steel shadows or Piercing sight can also save your group.

Aim for Flicker (one of the best defenses in the game if timed correctly) and either Afraid of the dark if fighting usually single opponents or clinging darkness if fighting multiple opponents.
Since the proposed fix allows you to select mysteries out of paths, i propose either life fades , flesh fails , voice of shadows and mesmerizing shade for single target fights or 2 x carpet of shadow, black fire and dusk and dawn for multiple opponents. Mix and match as you see fit.

[Psyren]

4th level? I'm confused - you can get AoD at 1st-level. (3, 6, or 9 castings, depending on how many other fundamentals you want.) If you're in a combat-heavy game, you're welcome to grab 9 uses of AoD if you wish, or 6 and something else for utility like Umbral Hand/Mystic Reflections. (imo, the others aren't all that good anyway.) At later levels when it starts to fall behind you can switch it out using Mouse's update or simply retraining.

If you think of it as a cantrip, it's really decent, even with the low uses/day. Sorcerers get more to choose from, but they only ever get 6 uses of what they do get, whereas yours can just keep going up as you get more fundamentals.