Help Making Eye of Lolth Character

[Lev]

Eye of Lolth the PrC from 3.5 Drow of the Underdark

What's the best way to meet the pre-reqs for obtaining this PrC?

It requires 2 dice of either sneak/skirm/sudden attacks, trickery domain, drow race, rank 8 in a few skills and evasion.

I'm just looking for some flavor options that might be better than drow2/rogue5/clr1

[Greenish]

It requires 2 dice of either sneak/skirm/sudden attacks, trickery domain, drow race, rank 8 in a few skills and evasion.Cleric 10 can enter without multiclassing, but it'll take a few feats.

[Curmudgeon]

Getting to Eye of Lolth with as much spellcasting as possible is the tricky part. You can't get there before level 6 anyway because of the skill rank requirements. You can get there at level 7 after only 6 levels of Cleric, though.

Sacred Outlaw [General] (Dragon # 357, page 86) (requires sneak attack +2d6, ability to turn or rebuke undead): Cleric and Rogue levels stack for undead turning and sneak attack damage.

First (in order of difficulty), you'll need to satisfy the sneak attack requirement without any Rogue levels. The Ranger spell Hunter's Eye (Players Handbook II, pages 114-115) will grant +1d6 per 3 caster levels. So Cleric will let you take Sacred Outlaw as your 6th level feat as follows:

You get a wand or scroll of Hunter's Eye at CL 6.
Step 1 of the level advancement process (Player's Handbook, pages 58-59) has you select your class (Cleric 6).
You need at least ½ rank in Use Magic Device, either previously or at Step 6 of this level advancement (Skills).
Use Magic Device will require a DC 20 check to use a wand, or 2 checks for the scroll: DC 27 (Decipher a written spell at SL 2) + DC 26 (Use a scroll at CL 6). Casting Guidance of the Avatar (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a) will give you +20 to your next skill check, allowing you to make the required UMD check(s) to cast Hunter's Eye. (As a Cleric you'll have enough WIS that you won't need to Emulate an ability score.)
When you've got 2d6 sneak attack from Hunter's Eye, proceed to Step 7 of level advancement (Feats) and select Sacred Outlaw. After selecting Sacred Outlaw, your Rogue (0) + Cleric (6) levels give you the sneak attack of a 6th level Rogue: +3d6. Thus once you've got Sacred Outlaw, that feat and your Cleric levels makes you continue to meet the feat's sneak attack requirement after Hunter's Eye expires.
Second, you'll need a way to get the right domains plus 8 ranks in Listen and Spot: skills that are normally cross-class for Clerics. (Trickery domain makes Hide a class skill.) The Whispered Secrets feat ([I]Races of Destiny, pages 155-156) adds Listen and Spot to your class list, but requires that you worship Vecna, who doesn't grant the Trickery domain. So you will need Planar Touchstone (Catalogues of Enlightenment) as your level 3 feat in order to get the Trickery requirement. (See Planar Handbook on pages 41-42.) That handles your skill rank requirements; you might need the Cloistered (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#clericVariantCloistere dCleric) Cleric variant to have enough skill points.

Third, you'll need to have 2 flaws to get Dodge and Cautious Attack as bonus feats at 1st level.

Fourth and finally, an easy one: a Ring of Evasion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm#evasion) will satisfy the last Eye of Lolth entry requirement.

[Lev]

Bahahaha, that's hilarious.

I don't mind not even having the ability to cast spells, really I'm just looking for flavor on the journey.

[Curmudgeon]

I don't mind not even having the ability to cast spells, really I'm just looking for flavor on the journey.
Well, Eye of Lolth does continue your divine spellcasting progression, so I figure you might as well take advantage of that. The real prize of the class is the 6th level Extraordinary Hide in Plain Sight that has all the advantages of the Shadowdancer/Assassin HiPS plus still works in an Antimagic Field. This is the best Hide in Plain Sight in all of D&D.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Eye of Lolth the PrC from 3.5 Drow of the Underdark

What's the best way to meet the pre-reqs for obtaining this PrC?

It requires 2 dice of either sneak/skirm/sudden attacks, trickery domain, drow race, rank 8 in a few skills and evasion.

I'm just looking for some flavor options that might be better than drow2/rogue5/clr1

As an alternative to Curmudgeon's contorted (albeit effective) strategy, you could take a single level of swordsage. Assassin's Stance gets you +2d6 sneak attack if you take it right before going into Eye of Lolth, plus you get other nicely thematic Shadow Hand goodies (such as teleporting through shadows, turning invisible for a short time, and dealing Con damage along with your sneak attacks) with your other maneuvers, plus you get +2 Ref, +1 initiative, and Weapon Focus with a bunch of roguish weapons. If your DM reads the Stances Known strictly and requires you pick a level 1 stance, rather than reading that as indicating only a level 1 character, you can take a second level for another shadow maneuver and Wis to AC, which dovetails nicely with the Wis focus of your cleric.

So Drow 2/Cleric 5/Swordsage 1 or Drow 2/Cleric 4/Swordsage 2 work out nicely.

[Lev]

As an alternative to Curmudgeon's contorted (albeit effective) strategy, you could take a single level of swordsage. Assassin's Stance gets you +2d6 sneak attack if you take it right before going into Eye of Lolth, plus you get other nicely thematic Shadow Hand goodies (such as teleporting through shadows, turning invisible for a short time, and dealing Con damage along with your sneak attacks) with your other maneuvers, plus you get +2 Ref, +1 initiative, and Weapon Focus with a bunch of roguish weapons. If your DM reads the Stances Known strictly and requires you pick a level 1 stance, rather than reading that as indicating only a level 1 character, you can take a second level for another shadow maneuver and Wis to AC, which dovetails nicely with the Wis focus of your cleric.

So Drow 2/Cleric 5/Swordsage 1 or Drow 2/Cleric 4/Swordsage 2 work out nicely.
This seems to be the best option, bonus points for the shadow hand combining so nicely with Gift of the Spider Queen abilities.

[Curmudgeon]

you could take a single level of swordsage. Assassin's Stance gets you +2d6 sneak attack if you take it right before going into Eye of Lolth ...

So Drow 2/Cleric 5/Swordsage 1 or Drow 2/Cleric 4/Swordsage 2 work out nicely.
One level of Swordsage doesn't actually work; you can only know a 1st level stance at Swordsage 1 (regardless of your initiator level). Swordsage 2 works, though.

[Greenish]

So Drow 2/Cleric 5/Swordsage 1 or Drow 2/Cleric 4/Swordsage 2 work out nicely.LA don't count for IL (as far as I know), so cleric5/swordsage1 (IL 3) couldn't pick 3rd level maneuvers or stances, and neither could cleric4/swordsage2 (IL 4).

[Lev]

One level of Swordsage doesn't actually work; you can only know a 1st level stance at Swordsage 1 (regardless of your initiator level). Swordsage 2 works, though.
All the better! More balanced theurging is always a plus.

[Curmudgeon]

To tackle the LA issue, check with your DM to see if you can use the Lesser Drow (Player's Guide to Faerûn, page 191) instead. There's no LA, and the reduced racial abilities don't interfere with Eye of Lolth requirements.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

One level of Swordsage doesn't actually work; you can only know a 1st level stance at Swordsage 1 (regardless of your initiator level). Swordsage 2 works, though.

As I said, he can go with 2 levels of swordsage if his DM interprets "begins play with a 1st level stance" as a proscription against taking higher level stances at swordsage 1 rather than simply a description of what a single-class swordsage gets (as "begins play" implies a 1st-level character), since WotC never seems to remember multiclassing with its examples; I've found the latter interpretation to be more common. I doubt WotC would go to the trouble to make up IL for multiclassing-friendliness and then restrict you to 1st level stances...but then, they did screw up the stance progression....


LA don't count for IL (as far as I know), so cleric5/swordsage1 (IL 3) couldn't pick 3rd level maneuvers or stances, and neither could cleric4/swordsage2 (IL 4).

Dammit, I was thinking of needing IL 3 rather than maneuver level 3. Well, it was a solution for shadowy flavor and minimum rules contortions rather than speed of entry, so I suppose he could always do cleric 6/swordsage 2 or cleric 4/swordsage 3.

[true_shinken]

The real prize of the class is the 6th level Extraordinary Hide in Plain Sight that has all the advantages of the Shadowdancer/Assassin HiPS plus still works in an Antimagic Field. This is the best Hide in Plain Sight in all of D&D.

It's the best! Hide in Plain Sight around! Nothing is gonna ever locate you now! It's the best! Hide in Plain Sight around! Nothing is gonna ever locate you now-ow-ow-ow!

[Curmudgeon]

Another problem with Swordsage is that they have Hde and Listen as class skills, but not Spot. Since Eye of Lolth requires Spot 8 ranks, the minimum cross-class levels before you meet this requirement is 13. With LA +2, that puts you at ECL 15 before you can enter the PrC. :smalleek:

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Another problem with Swordsage is that they have Hde and Listen as class skills, but not Spot. Since Eye of Lolth requires Spot 8 ranks, the minimum cross-class levels before you meet this requirement is 13. With LA +2, that puts you at ECL 15 before you can enter the PrC. :smalleek:

I was assuming he'd be using your methods to take care of the skill prereqs; this was just for the SA requirements.

[gorfnab]

Why not go Divine Trickster (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/5M5QGsJ5mpbLfAHduZG.html) instead? Otherwise Divine Trickster would give you some useful filler levels. Something simple like Rogue 3/ Cleric 3/ Divine Trickster 10/ Eye of Lloth 4 may work.

[Curmudgeon]

Something simple like Rogue 3/ Cleric 3/ Divine Trickster 10/ Eye of Lloth 4 may work.
If the main point is getting the Extraordinary Hide in Plain Sight at Eye of Lolth 6, waiting until level 22 for that may not be too satisfying. :smallyuk:

[gorfnab]

If the main point is getting the Extraordinary Hide in Plain Sight at Eye of Lolth 6, waiting until level 22 for that may not be too satisfying. :smallyuk:
Ah did not see that. Just take more levels of Eye of Lloth then and use Divine Trickster for filler since it has better casting progression.

[Curmudgeon]

Ah did not see that. Just take more levels of Eye of Lloth then and use Divine Trickster for filler since it has better casting progression.

I don't mind not even having the ability to cast spells, really I'm just looking for flavor on the journey.
Since the OP doesn't care about that spellcasting aspect, and Divine Trickster mostly just duplicates what you'd get with Cleric plus Sacred Outlaw and has steeper skill requirements, what's the point?

You'd be behind 3 spellcaster levels anyway by taking Rogue 3 to satisfy the skill entry requirements, so this ends up being a worse approach both in spellcasting and the number of levels before you get to Eye of Lolth. Since selling a DM on any homebrew class is generally tough going, I don't see any upside here.

[panaikhan]

Taking Drow Paragon levels may help with the skill requirements - I don't have UA to hand (plus the Cleric advancement (if female) doesn't hurt).

[Last Laugh]

Drow paragon does indeed have listen and spot as class skills.
it also:
Increases the daily uses of all of your spell like abilities by 1/day
Reduces light blindness to light sensitivity
grants +2 dex
grants +30 ft darkvision
Female drow paragons gain +1 cleric caster level at paragon 1 and paragon 3
Male drow paragons gain +1 wizard caster level at paragon 1 and paragon 3

[Lev]

To tackle the LA issue, check with your DM to see if you can use the Lesser Drow (Player's Guide to Faerûn, page 191) instead. There's no LA, and the reduced racial abilities don't interfere with Eye of Lolth requirements.
Hmm, that might work to optimize level impact!


It's the best! Hide in Plain Sight around! Nothing is gonna ever locate you now! It's the best! Hide in Plain Sight around! Nothing is gonna ever locate you now-ow-ow-ow!
Try not to be there,
Cuz you're only a Drow,
And a Drow's gotta learn to fake it,

Try to roll well,
Though the save is tough,
And only a high roll will make it,

History repeats itself,
A good roll-- you succeed,

Never doubt that you're the one,
And you can have your dreams!

It's the best hide,
Around!
Nothings ever gonna get you found!
It's the best hide,
Around!
Nothings ever gonna get you found!
It's the best hide,
Around!
Nothings ever gonna get you fou-ou ou- ou ound!

Find corner end,
Cuz your life will depend,
On a shadow that you see before you,

You gotta-- ok I gotta stop there, too funny :smallsmile:


Why not go Divine Trickster (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/5M5QGsJ5mpbLfAHduZG.html) instead? Otherwise Divine Trickster would give you some useful filler levels. Something simple like Rogue 3/ Cleric 3/ Divine Trickster 10/ Eye of Lloth 4 may work.
Here's a good question-- why does it seem that most GitP users spec builds for a 20th level character?


Taking Drow Paragon levels may help with the skill requirements - I don't have UA to hand (plus the Cleric advancement (if female) doesn't hurt).
Extra Gift of the Spider Queen triggers? Always tasty =]

[true_shinken]

Try not to be there,
Cuz you're only a Drow,
And a Drow's gotta learn to fake it,

Try to roll well,
Though the save is tough,
And only a high roll will make it,

History repeats itself,
A good roll-- you succeed,

Never doubt that you're the one,
And you can have your dreams!

It's the best hide,
Around!
Nothings ever gonna get you found!
It's the best hide,
Around!
Nothings ever gonna get you found!
It's the best hide,
Around!
Nothings ever gonna get you fou-ou ou- ou ound!

Find corner end,
Cuz your life will depend,
On a shadow that you see before you,

You gotta-- ok I gotta stop there, too funny :smallsmile:

This was awesome. You rock. ^^