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View Full Version : [3.5] So many choices, so little cash... (Splatbook Purchase Help)



Drakevarg
2010-10-21, 05:43 PM
So, I currently have $30 sitting pretty in my pocket. On Saturday, I'll be making my customary migration to the local game shop to run my DnD campaign. Also present at this shop is a small selection of 3.5 books, one of the few that I've seen in a store lately.

Thing is, I can only afford one of them, and I'm torn between a few of them. Here are the choices:

Complete Divine: My first choice. I currently own Complete Warrior and Complete Arcane, and this would complement those two nicely.

Tome of Battle: I've been urged to get this one, but I'm hesitant because it's a bunch of new rules to learn that aren't really present anywhere else.

Book of Exalted Deeds: Not high on my list, since much of the way divinity works in my setting is very different from the default.

Races of Stone: Given that Gnomes and Dwarves are nonexistant in my setting, I don't see this getting much use.

Races of Destiny: OMG aren't humans just sooper speshul!? No, no they're not. :smallannoyed: They just breed like bunnies.

Monster Manual III/V: One of these has Warforged in it, which could be handy for my campaign's B-Plot.

So, what would be the best option? I'm predicting most of you will say ToB, but I'm still interested in hearing the public's opinion.

dsmiles
2010-10-21, 05:47 PM
Well, if you want warforged, I think they're in MM3.

Complete divine isn't a total waste. BoED, however, is nigh useless for your campaign, apparently.

Personally, I dislike ToB (same reason - too much new crap to learn), and all of the "Races of" line (except Races of the Dragon).

My choice? Complete Divine or MM3. It'd be a toss-up.

Drakevarg
2010-10-21, 05:52 PM
BoED, however, is nigh useless for your campaign, apparently.

Well, one of the campaign's major factions is the Templar, a sooper-dooper holy theocracy.

On the other hand, the four major gods of the setting are essentially just the DM wearing a mask, so statting them is pointless. (Which I glean is part of the point of BoED.)

Greenish
2010-10-21, 05:53 PM
Races of Stone is rather nice. Goliaths are cool, but if you lack the other races, well, the exotic armours and shields are nice, I guess.

One that you don't have on your list, Expanded Psionics Handbook. Psionics is awesome.

That said, you know which one I'm recommending. Maneuvers don't really have such a different mechanic: you use one, X happens, then you can't use the same one again until you refresh maneuvers (swift action & attack for warblade, full round mediation for each maneuver for swordsage [rename swordmage if magic bugs you], automatic for crusader).

[Edit]: You're thinking about Deities and Demigods (3.0 book), BoED doesn't stat out deities, but focuses on their followers.

Drakevarg
2010-10-21, 05:55 PM
Races of Stone is rather nice. Goliaths are cool, but if you lack the other races, well, the exotic armours and shields are nice, I guess.

The equipment was something I was looking at, yes. And I could easily just drop the racial prerequisites from the classes. (I already did that with Dwarven Defender.)


One that you don't have on your list, Expanded Psionics Handbook. Psionics is awesome.

It's not on the list because it's not there. Besides, Psionics are out of place in my setting.

Kylarra
2010-10-21, 05:57 PM
If you can get ToB at the list price of $30, I would go snag that up. You'll probably want it eventually, and it runs for higher everywhere that I've looked.

dsmiles
2010-10-21, 05:59 PM
Well, one of the campaign's major factions is the Templar, a sooper-dooper holy theocracy.

BoED actually deals with stuff like this, not statting deities. BE WARNED, however, that BoED also covers Subjective alignment stuff as well. Good VS Good, and all that. Also, the RP requirements to be an Exalted character are rather stringent, at best, and pretty dang harsh at worst.

Zore
2010-10-21, 06:00 PM
From basically everything you've posted, especially recently, I'm inclined to think you won't like TOB at all. Your players will not likely understand it very easily, and you will most likely ban 2/3 classes anyways. I don't think Swordsages or Crusaders fit into the kinds of worlds you like to run, especially considering you banned classes with similar flavor to them already. That just leaves Warblades, and while good they're available for free online so you should probably check that out instead of using the money on the book. That should give you a rough barometer of what to expect if you just read through it and decide for yourself if you like it or not.

As far as the others, I really dislike Complete Divine and think its a bit of a waste of a book. The Monster Manuals are okay, but nothing to really write home about (3 has Warforged). Um... Exalted Deeds is like TOB and probably nigh useless to you. Races of Destiny has some great stuff, Chameleon and Able Learner, which is great but it sounds like you hate it already.

If I were you I'd get the Races of Stone. I really just think you will regret getting the others right now.

Drakevarg
2010-10-21, 06:09 PM
Races of Destiny has some great stuff, Chameleon and Able Learner, which is great but it sounds like you hate it already.

Honestly, I just think the name sounds a tad arrogant.

Also, is Runehound also in MM3? I thought it looked pretty damned cool. :smallamused:

Greenish
2010-10-21, 06:14 PM
Honestly, I just think the name sounds a tad arrogant.Meh, what would you call the book? Races of… Human? :smallamused:


Also, is Runehound also in MM3? I thought it looked pretty damned cool.Yep.

Drakevarg
2010-10-21, 06:18 PM
Meh, what would you call the book? Races of… Human? :smallamused:

"Squishy Pink Races?" "Races of Boning?" "Races Not Cool Enough To Go In The Other Books?" :smalltongue:

Or, yes, "Races of Man" sounds somewhat useable.

Cainen
2010-10-21, 06:23 PM
Take a look at the Warblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060802a&page=2) and the free maneuver cards (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20061225a) if Tome of Battle is on the table to get an idea of what you're looking at here.

dsmiles
2010-10-21, 06:24 PM
"Squishy Pink Races?" "Races of Boning?" "Races Not Cool Enough To Go In The Other Books?" :smalltongue:

Or, yes, "Races of Man" sounds somewhat useable.

How about "Races That Can and Will Breed with Anything" :smallbiggrin:

Keld Denar
2010-10-21, 06:27 PM
The best 2 books to get that I feel add the most to the game aren't on your list. Spell Compendium and Magic Item Compendium are both great. Especially the MIC, but both add a ton to nearly EVERY class and archtype in the game. SpC is especially well received by partial and half-casters like Bard, Ranger, and Paladin. MIC has TONS of cool treasure, especially minor trinkets you can dribble out over your players so they feel like they are getting cool swag without actually giving them huge GP values worth of items.

Otherwise, of the ones you've listed, ToB adds the most to the game. Most non-casters will want to incorporate a little bit of that book into their characters, even if they don't utilize most of it. Those are the guys who need the most help, this can help them! Also, its not THAT hard to learn...

Marnath
2010-10-21, 09:36 PM
I don't know what the policy is at that store, but most bookstores that have those books, you can look through it before buying it, as long as you don't spend the whole day there or something. If that isn't against the rules I'd reccomend browsing through a few to see which one looks promising. This is assuming those copies aren't wrapped in plastic, I don't remember any 3.5 books being that way though.

Tyndmyr
2010-10-21, 09:48 PM
ToB is by far the best of those.

Races of Destiny is, frankly, a bit underwhelming. Useful tidbits in it, but nothing amazing.

MM 3 and V have some wonky stuff in them. The occasional good bit, too, but frankly, you can get by on the monsters in the SRD and class leveled players for a very long time.

Complete divine has some useful cleric stuff. It's not bad, but I'd rank it in the completes after arcane, mage, warrior and adventurer in terms of how much it actually sees use in my experience. Not bottom of barrel, but not the top either.

BoED. A crapshoot. Occasional good ideas mixed with mindnumingly stupid ones.

Races of Stone. Book o' dwarfy dwarfness. Again, a lack of surprising or spectacular things. A few lovely options for dwarves, but of comparatively little actual use to most normal campaigns.

Merk
2010-10-21, 10:07 PM
If you can track it down, you might enjoy Complete Scoundrel.

avr
2010-10-21, 10:13 PM
It is very likely that you can get 2nd-hand 3.5 stuff cheap. You might consider checking on this before spending your $30 at the game store.

Drakevarg
2010-10-21, 10:48 PM
It is very likely that you can get 2nd-hand 3.5 stuff cheap. You might consider checking on this before spending your $30 at the game store.

Finding 3.5 material where I live is nigh impossible. I know of exactly two places to find it, and the game store in question is one of them. I'll check the other location (Half-Price Books) tomorrow and see what they have. If they don't have anything better, I'll stick with the game store.

Marnath
2010-10-21, 10:58 PM
It is very likely that you can get 2nd-hand 3.5 stuff cheap. You might consider checking on this before spending your $30 at the game store.

I think he said he hasn't got a credit card, so online purchases are out.

Godless_Paladin
2010-10-21, 11:00 PM
Tome of Battle is easily the most meaningful piece on that list. It makes martial classes a good deal more fun, and is packed with useful options and material. One of the best buys in 3.5e, period.

Also, despite what you say about the rules not being present anywhere else, unlike many of the other additional "casting" systems they meld very nicely into existing material and can support members of non-ToB classes with features ranging from Martial Study to having one of the smoothest implementations of multiclassing in D&D 3.5e. As for the learning curve, ToB is really easy to pick up and doesn't require any kind of splatbook diving or anything in order for a great variety of concepts to be viable.

Complete Divine, on the other hand... well, you probably will use a couple of the feats if you play a Cleric. Divine Metamagic or, less cheesily, Divine Spell Power. That's about it.

Monster Manuals are always nice, though frankly you don't get the same bang for your buck as the MM1 there.

I've almost never felt the need to use much of anything from the Races of X books. They stay on the shelf.

BoED is a crapshoot, and there's nothing really special there to make it rise above competition. The better ideas in it are merely palatable, not game-changing.

Lord_Gareth
2010-10-21, 11:01 PM
I'll third Tome of Battle for you.

Runestar
2010-10-22, 12:24 AM
It would be a tie between MM5 and ToB for me.

If you aren't a DM, then the extra monsters won't be all that useful and you should go with ToB (and it too can add a lot of variety to your npcs). However, you may want to check with your DM to see how receptive he is to the idea of you playing a martial adept.

If you are the DM, you can also try to encourage your players to roll up martial adepts themselves. Then ToB becomes more value, since both sides of the gaming table are using it. :smallsmile:

Noodles2375
2010-10-22, 12:26 AM
I'll third Tome of Battle for you.

Fourth'd. This would be a very good decision.

Endarire
2010-10-22, 12:43 AM
I echo Tome of Battle. It's the best splatbook I've purchased, even with Warblades and maneuver cards online for free.

Besides, if you need a specific stat block, ask boarders. They'll probably give you want you want.

Monster Manual III, Races of Eberron, and Eberron Campaign Setting all have Warforged stats.

GoodbyeSoberDay
2010-10-22, 01:01 AM
I like Tome of Battle. It's fun. It's also easy to make effective Tome of Battle characters. From the other thread, it seems like your players have trouble making effective characters. You can see where I'm going here.

If you end up not wanting to learn a new rule set, the best non-ToB book on that list is indeed Complete Divine.

Tyrmatt
2010-10-22, 03:25 AM
Given that here in the UK, I have seen one (1) singular copy of ToB for sale, retailing at over £100 due to it's "rarity", I would buy that in half a second.

Runestar
2010-10-22, 03:47 AM
Given that here in the UK, I have seen one (1) singular copy of ToB for sale, retailing at over £100 due to it's "rarity", I would buy that in half a second.

What rarity? What's so hard about asking the bookshop to bring in extra copies? I can easily buy 6-7 extra books for that sort of money. :smallannoyed:

Drakevarg
2010-10-22, 04:01 AM
What rarity? What's so hard about asking the bookshop to bring in extra copies?

The fact that 3.5 books are out of print?

Zieu
2010-10-22, 04:30 AM
{Scrubbed}

Drakevarg
2010-10-22, 05:08 AM
Don't use 'em. Don't even use the SRD.

Coidzor
2010-10-22, 05:34 AM
Why not use the SRD? It's very handy for use in referencing.
How about "Races That Can and Will Breed with Anything" :smallbiggrin:

You mean Dragons? :smallamused:

On the subject of the books, I'd recommend ToB then the Monster Manuals, then Complete Divine out of that list.

Looking over the online ToB stuff from Wizards though, will help you decide whether you want ToB or not.

Ernir
2010-10-22, 07:02 AM
The ToB is the most revolutionary of all the books.

If you want to revolutionize your game, get the ToB.

I'd just get CDiv otherwise.

dsmiles
2010-10-22, 07:23 AM
You mean Dragons? :smallamused:

No, no. Humans. Think about it:
Half-Elves, Half-Orcs, Half-Ogres...Centaurs. :smalleek:

Amphetryon
2010-10-22, 08:54 AM
In general, ToB is the best option.

For your stated preferences, though, I'd put it 3rd on the list, after Races of Stone and Complete Divine. CDiv likely suffers a bit because you've got such a specific feel to your homebrew world that much of what's in it seems likely to get the banhammer, or at least a significant nerf.

Dr.Epic
2010-10-22, 08:56 AM
I'd choose complete divine or BoED.

Coidzor
2010-10-22, 09:00 AM
No, no. Humans. Think about it:
Half-Elves, Half-Orcs, Half-Ogres...Centaurs. :smalleek:

Half-Dragon Black Puddings...
Half-Dragon Gelatinous Cubes...
Half-Dragon Dire Rats...
Half-Dragon Porpoises...
Half-Dragon Pseudonatural Monkeys...

:smallamused:

Greenish
2010-10-22, 09:50 AM
No, no. Humans. Think about it:
Half-Elves, Half-Orcs, Half-Ogres...Centaurs. :smalleek:"Half-dragon" is an inherited template that can be added to any living, corporeal creature (referred to hereafter as the base creature).

dsmiles
2010-10-22, 10:25 AM
"Half-dragon" is an inherited template that can be added to any living, corporeal creature (referred to hereafter as the base creature).

I just wanted to use the 'centaurs' joke. :smallbiggrin:

true_shinken
2010-10-22, 10:32 AM
It's very sad you can't get MIC :/
I really don't think ToB meshes well with horror campaigns, but it's the best way to spend your money otherwise.

Tyndmyr
2010-10-22, 11:17 AM
I think he said he hasn't got a credit card, so online purchases are out.

You can get temporary credit cards with cash. It's fairly inexpensive.

Marnath
2010-10-22, 12:23 PM
You can get temporary credit cards with cash. It's fairly inexpensive.

Tried it once. Cost me $20 to activate it before I could put money on it.

Tyndmyr
2010-10-22, 12:28 PM
Tried it once. Cost me $20 to activate it before I could put money on it.

Really? Round here(east coast), it should be $5 tops. Very often free. It's routinely used for gifts as a result.

Mikka
2010-10-22, 01:33 PM
Tome of Battle is cool but not for everyone, but it does make Warrior types alot more viable (as long as you don't go fully "weeabo" with it)

and Races of Destiny has what is probably the most awesome and versatile and fun and endlessly fun fun fun prestige class ever the Chameleon.

Drakevarg
2010-10-22, 08:29 PM
So, I checked at Half-Price books, which had the Planar Handbook for $15. So, I bought it.

Due to further recent income, I have $28 dollars left after said purchase, so I should be able to scrounge up enough by tomorrow to get one of the cheaper books. (Read: Not the Monster Manuals.)

Oh, and I just remembered that the game shop has the DMG II as well, in case that's worth considering.

true_shinken
2010-10-22, 08:50 PM
Oh, and I just remembered that the game shop has the DMG II as well, in case that's worth considering.
That book is pretty good. For someone new to DMing such as you, I'd grab it without a second thought.

Lev
2010-10-22, 09:00 PM
ToB

Alt systems like UA, ToB, Expanded Psionic and Incarnum are really good to get-- books that use the same rulesets often are just bland re-mashes of the same thing you could homebrew and balance easy.

That being said, Spell Compendium and Arms & Eq guide are must haves.

Psyren
2010-10-22, 09:41 PM
Really? Round here(east coast), it should be $5 tops. Very often free. It's routinely used for gifts as a result.

You can even generate a temporary CC number through many banks these days that links to your checking account.

Anyway, 5thing/6thing/whatevering ToB.

Drakevarg
2010-10-23, 01:24 PM
I went with MM3. In the long run, I think it's going to get the most use.

Besides, I seem to be the only one buying the 3.5 books here, so I'm confident the others will be there next time I have money.

true_shinken
2010-10-23, 07:38 PM
I went with MM3. In the long run, I think it's going to get the most use.

Besides, I seem to be the only one buying the 3.5 books here, so I'm confident the others will be there next time I have money.

Check with the store owner, he might cut you deal if buy them all.

Marnath
2010-10-23, 07:39 PM
Check with the store owner, he might cut you deal if buy them all.

And if not, he might hold a few for you until you get the money, better than waiting and find he sold it.

true_shinken
2010-10-23, 07:42 PM
And if not, he might hold a few for you until you get the money, better than waiting and find he sold it.

...but Psycho really should have gotten ToB or DMG II. :smalltongue:

Amiel
2010-10-25, 12:41 AM
Psycho, what are your thoughts on Pathfinder?

I think money invested in Pathfinder products is money well spent; and they're not particularly or prohibitively expensive (which is always a bonus).

Drakevarg
2010-10-25, 12:53 AM
Psycho, what are your thoughts on Pathfinder?

Not terribly interested in it and reflexively get irritable when people suggest it to me. :smallannoyed:

Don't mean that as a personal jab at you; it's just that I'm almost as sick of having people suggest I try Pathfinder as I am sick of people suggesting I try ToB. :smallsigh:

Koury
2010-10-25, 02:05 AM
Not terribly interested in it and reflexively get irritable when people suggest it to me. :smallannoyed:

Don't mean that as a personal jab at you; it's just that I'm almost as sick of having people suggest I try Pathfinder as I am sick of people suggesting I try ToB. :smallsigh:

Out of curiosity, why is it you're opposed to trying them out? And I don't mean just ToB, I mean new things in general.

I remember when I heard MoI was a new subsystem, I was excited. Same with ToB. I love me some new subsytems. Its fun for me to read through and figure out how they work, and even more fun to start mish-mashing it with other subsystems and see what comes out. :smalltongue:

Note I'm not saying you're doing it wrong or anything like that, just curious to see the point of view of someone (presumably) opposite of myself. :smallsmile:

Drakevarg
2010-10-25, 02:42 AM
Out of curiosity, why is it you're opposed to trying them out? And I don't mean just ToB, I mean new things in general.

It's less "new things" and more "popular things." I specifically don't want to try them because everybody wants me to try them. I have a powerful Opposition Reflex. (It runs in the family.)

I'll try ToB eventually. Maybe even Pathfinder. But I'll do it when I'm good and ready to, and the more people insist on it the more it's going to be pushed back in the queue. :smallannoyed:

Lev
2010-10-25, 04:29 AM
It's less "new things" and more "popular things." I specifically don't want to try them because everybody wants me to try them. I have a powerful Opposition Reflex. (It runs in the family.)

I'll try ToB eventually. Maybe even Pathfinder. But I'll do it when I'm good and ready to, and the more people insist on it the more it's going to be pushed back in the queue. :smallannoyed:
http://southparkstudios-intl.mtvnimages.com/shared/sps/images/shows/southpark/vertical_video/import/season_07/sp_0714_06_v6.jpg

But what if we suggested it to you in the hopes you wouldn't use it, therefore manipulating your anti-conformist reflex to make you conform?

Amphetryon
2010-10-25, 07:38 AM
So the whole point of the poll was to take the one that was least suggested, in order to conform to your "Opposition Reflex?"

:smallconfused:

Tyndmyr
2010-10-25, 07:47 AM
That book is pretty good. For someone new to DMing such as you, I'd grab it without a second thought.

This. It also has a few nifty things. Retraining, for instance, something I'd often thought should officially exist before it was printed, appears here, allowing people to actually take PrCs and such without planning out characters many, many levels in advance.



It's less "new things" and more "popular things." I specifically don't want to try them because everybody wants me to try them. I have a powerful Opposition Reflex. (It runs in the family.)

I'll try ToB eventually. Maybe even Pathfinder. But I'll do it when I'm good and ready to, and the more people insist on it the more it's going to be pushed back in the queue. :smallannoyed:

This seems like something to overcome. After all, asking advice specifically so you can do the opposite is...not generally helpful. I suggest you actually crack open all those books that have been suggested to you, and take a look at the contents, rather than judging books purely on the "popular = no" scale. Because if unpopularity is a virtue, sooner or later, you're gonna end up with FATAL, and nobody deserves that.

dsmiles
2010-10-25, 09:41 AM
Because if unpopularity is a virtue, sooner or later, you're gonna end up with FATAL, and nobody deserves that.

I dunno, I've met a few people...

Kylarra
2010-10-25, 11:15 AM
I guess the real thing now is for everyone to try to get him to run a horror game...

Drakevarg
2010-10-25, 03:08 PM
But what if we suggested it to you in the hopes you wouldn't use it, therefore manipulating your anti-conformist reflex to make you conform?

It's not quite so arbitrary as that. It's more "if I don't want to do something, suggesting I do it makes it seem even more unappealing." If I already intended to do something and someone suggested I do so, their opinion is moot because I was going to do so anyway.


This. It also has a few nifty things. Retraining, for instance, something I'd often thought should officially exist before it was printed, appears here, allowing people to actually take PrCs and such without planning out characters many, many levels in advance.

Personally I've never liked the idea of retraining. It's not Poke'mon, you can't just "forget" something you've learned and put a new skill in that space.

Well, maybe if you mindraped yourself first...


This seems like something to overcome. After all, asking advice specifically so you can do the opposite is...not generally helpful. I suggest you actually crack open all those books that have been suggested to you, and take a look at the contents, rather than judging books purely on the "popular = no" scale.

Again, it's not quite as arbitrary as that. I was going to turn my nose up at most suggestions towards ToB, sure, but that's because I'm tired of hearing about it. I only listed it in the first place because I was trying to be honest about the selection.

Apart from my bias in favor of Complete Divine and Monster Manual III however, I was legitimately mostly on the fence with most of 'em and was open to suggestions, hence the thread.