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Arros Winhadren
2010-10-22, 01:55 AM
For a new Star Wars Saga Edition game I'm playing in I'm making a melee-based Ryn scoundrel. I realize that using Sneak Attack with melee is a weaker option than just using ranged, but it's a character concept I just want to roll with. I plan on eventually getting Darksticks (gives you total concealment) but I don't currently have an easy way to get Darkvision (you are blind when using Darksticks unless you have Darkvision). Until then I'm using a Fire Blade (light simple weapon, 2d4 damage, ignores dr of unattended objects).

Does anyone know of good ways to take advantage of Sneak Attack while still working with Melee? I'm thinking that Malkite Poisoner might be the way to go, though I'm uncertain as to whether you apply to the poison to every enemy you hit during the encounter or just one. I was also thinking of looking into Melee Duelist (I think that's what it's called), but in general the class seems weak to me.

Does anyone have any tips/advice for me?

Thanks!

Dienekes
2010-10-23, 11:26 AM
You'll probably want Sneak Attack [Scoundrel Talent, Core], Dastardly Strike [Scoundrel Talent, Core] for damage. Sneak Attack is hard to make consistently work, especially if you're melee and need to move around a lot.
But you'll need ways to get your opponent flat-footed, some I know of are:
Trick Step [Scoundrel Talent, Rebellion Era] Uses Initiative, can backfire on you
Advantageous Position [Assassin Talent, Scum and Villainy] Very good, but it is in a prestige class that focuses on sniping. Also requires a flanker.
Combat Trickery [feat, Unknown Regions] So you can feint and attack the same turn.
Dirty Tricks [Melee Duelist Talent, KOTOR] It is the same as above.
Cheap Trick [Scout Talent, Galaxy at War] One of those roll twice on skill checks

Melee Duelist I would definitely suggest taking for Dirty Trick [assuming you don't take Combat Trickery earlier], and Out of Nowhere, and Weapon Flourish II.

You'll be able to feint followed by a free attack, followed by a full round attack all in one turn. Master of Movement is just a nice bonus as well. Take a level of Soldier for Devastating Attack and with some luck you can blast people down the condition track.

Arros Winhadren
2010-10-23, 04:01 PM
Thanks for the tips. Is Sneak Attack allowed for full attacks?

Malkite Poisoner is more attractive to me that feinting because the poison not only lowers enemies down the condition track but with another talent it also denies them dex to reflex for as long as the poison is active, meaning free SA. For lower levels I'll probably be relying on my Ryn's ability to distract enemies as a swift action, and then just find cover to hide behind. Assuming I get the darksticks, they give you total concealment, and there's a feat (or maybe it's a Scout talent) that makes enemies unaware of you so long as you have total concealment. I'm not too worried about getting SA to hit so much as I am about combating the disadvantages of using melee vs. ranged.

Thanks again, you've given me some good ideas.

Dienekes
2010-10-23, 05:25 PM
Thanks for the tips. Is Sneak Attack allowed for full attacks?

Malkite Poisoner is more attractive to me that feinting because the poison not only lowers enemies down the condition track but with another talent it also denies them dex to reflex for as long as the poison is active, meaning free SA. For lower levels I'll probably be relying on my Ryn's ability to distract enemies as a swift action, and then just find cover to hide behind. Assuming I get the darksticks, they give you total concealment, and there's a feat (or maybe it's a Scout talent) that makes enemies unaware of you so long as you have total concealment. I'm not too worried about getting SA to hit so much as I am about combating the disadvantages of using melee vs. ranged.

Thanks again, you've given me some good ideas.

Sneak Attack is allowed for full-attack [or multi-attack as it exists in SWSE]. However, feinting only works for the next attack, so most of your career you'll only get 1 off at a time.

The problem with Malkite is that it is a 1/encounter deal based off of Malkite Techniques unless I'm reading it wrong. Also, better hope you aren't in a Clone Wars campaign, because it's useless against droids.

The problem with using distraction and finding cover as a melee character is, in general, that means you're useless. Personally, I've seen for maxing melee is just to get a lot of movement possibilities. Of course, they are generally Jedi, who have a lot more HP than a scoundrel. So, dunno, can't help ya there.

Arros Winhadren
2010-10-25, 06:19 PM
I've looked at Malkite Poisoner and it seems to me that the effect applied to all enemies for the full encounter, but you can only apply it to one weapon per encounter. It seems to me to be the most reliable way of denying dex to str, assuming you roll high enough to beat their Fortitude.

I changed my race from Ryn to Nagai, meaning I can take advantage of Tekhla (sp?) blades as well as better stat bonuses. My build starts with Malkite Poisoner and associated talents, then moves on to the Sneak Attack talent and finally prestiges into Melee Duelist around level 11 (I might try to get into it earlier with addition of soldier levels). At about level 13 or so, assuming that Sneak Attack hits for two attacks (which it will do every round if the enemy is poisoned and both attacks hit), my Nagai should be doing ~11d6+40 over the course of a round (some effects are delayed). Here's the breakdown:

Two T. blade attacks (2d6 per blade plus 1d6 bleeding damage each makes a total of 6d6).
Sneak Attack +2d6 (applies once for each attack for total of 4d6).
1d6 from poison damage.
12 damage added from half level (6 on each blade). A dex of 22 and Elegant Mastery means that 14 more points of damage are added. Add full heroic level from poison (13) and you get 39 static damage on top of the d6s.

Total is 11d6+39. Single Weapon Flourish makes all that happen in a standard action (though full damage does take course over a turn).

EDIT: I went and tried to work it out in Sagasheet and I think I've spent one too many talents for that build than I actually would have gotten. However, using two levels of solider for some increased BAB a feat earlier, at level 12 I'll be doing :
Tehk'la Blade rapid strike +12 (3d6+12), twice and as a Standard Action. This does not include the poison damage of 1d6+12. (It might be 1d6+6, I can't remember). After that I'll start taking Sneak Attack. This build will also have a Sneak roll of +27, which is really not too shabby.

Of course I could just be high and this is a terrible idea.