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View Full Version : Need Help with an Epic Spell.



Armethious
2010-10-22, 06:42 PM
I am trying to create an Epic version of Genesis, but I am running into problem with the math. Genesis creates a demiplane with a radius 180 feet. In order to compare that with the conjure seed we need to convert that to cubed feet. The volume of the sphere is 24,429,024 cubed feet! This is assuming it is solid. Even if it was 99% hollow, that still leaves me with 244,166 cubed feet of material!

The Conjure seed would have to have a starting DC 12,208, and that is before making it permanent! Not to mention, Genesis scales exponentially with multiple casts and Conjure would only expand linearly.

So, is it possible to make a epic version of Genesis without tossing the rules out the window? If that is what it would require, what do you think this spell would like? I basically would want it to do exactly what Genesis does, only creating/expanding the demiplane faster.

For example, instead of 1 foot per day, maybe 3 or 4, or even 10.

Magicyop
2010-10-22, 06:53 PM
The problem here is that you can't expect Conjure to create what Genesis does, due to how broken Epic Spellcasting is. Instead, try to make it so it conjures up a smaller demiplane which expands much quicker. So for example...

Start with
{table]Seed: Conjure|DC 21.[/table]
Here's you'll need an Ad Hoc factor, I suggest the following:
{table]Expands by 1 ft. of radius per day|+15[/table]

Assume that the area factors will effect the expanding rate, so add the following factor the desired number of times:
{table]Increase area by 100%|+4[/table]
Every time you add that factor, the plane will expand by another 1 ft. per day.

Finish off with
{table]Permanent duration|x5[/table]

This will end up being still costly, but more reasonable. You'll need some mitigating factors, of course. I suggest making it a ritual and increasing the casting time.

Armethious
2010-10-22, 07:00 PM
Thanks! That is perfect!

Godskook
2010-10-22, 07:35 PM
Most people toss out the epic spell rules regardless. They're poorly playtested, and generally allow for shenanigans of proportions normally reserved exclusively to pun-pun.

Gralamin
2010-10-22, 07:58 PM
Most people toss out the epic spell rules regardless. They're poorly playtested, and generally allow for shenanigans of proportions normally reserved exclusively to pun-pun.

On the other hand, requiring a Solar powered space station to animate the planet to attack your foes is hilarious.

But yes, Throwing them out is a good idea.

Soren Hero
2010-10-22, 08:19 PM
maybe instead of an epic spell that mimics genesis...what about an epic artifact that when activated, auto-casts genesis until the artifact turns off?

Lev
2010-10-22, 09:03 PM
The math assumes the plane is a sphere, yes?

Magicyop
2010-10-22, 09:11 PM
Well, they may be poorly playtested, but they certainly allow for a lot of imagination. I like the system, and I wish it was more balanced. If the DM is willing to spend some time adjusting and working it out, it can be done well. Really just depends on the specific epic spell.

Armethious
2010-10-22, 09:49 PM
maybe instead of an epic spell that mimics genesis...what about an epic artifact that when activated, auto-casts genesis until the artifact turns off?

The point was to have it grow faster, using an artifact would be the same as casting it manually every six months. So an artifact that saves me a spell cast every six months does not seem all that useful.


The math assumes the plane is a sphere, yes?

Yep. I asked in the rules thread and was told it had to be a sphere. That works for me cause you get more surface area out of a sphere than if it was a flat surface.

Lev
2010-10-23, 04:10 AM
Yep. I asked in the rules thread and was told it had to be a sphere. That works for me cause you get more surface area out of a sphere than if it was a flat surface.
Oh, I remember reading in the core books that a plane itself need not have any specific qualities or dimensions-- I always pictured a nice plane to be like the inside of a stomach or something, where the plane just ends at the walls.

Eloel
2010-10-23, 04:14 AM
Yep. I asked in the rules thread and was told it had to be a sphere. That works for me cause you get more surface area out of a sphere than if it was a flat surface.

You don't stand ON the plane. You stand IN it. Think of a plane as a bubble you live in. There might be a couple planets or something, depending on how big the bubble is, but you certainly don't stand on it.

Armethious
2010-10-23, 07:58 AM
Ok, you lost me there. How does that practically relate to the spell Genesis? I cast Genesis and wait 180 days. I now have a demiplane with a radius of 180 feet. So, how much surface area of dirt and stone to I have for buildings and farmland and the like? And is it flat or curved?

Eloel
2010-10-23, 08:03 AM
Ok, you lost me there. How does that practically relate to the spell Genesis? I cast Genesis and wait 180 days. I now have a demiplane with a radius of 180 feet. So, how much surface area of dirt and stone to I have for buildings and farmland and the like? And is it flat or curved?

It is your plane. You can have it however you want in there.
Edit:


We're talking about a Demiplane. A Demiplane has no planets. A Demiplane is just a really tiny private dimension, it can be shaped like whatever you like.

You can shape it to have planets, albeit small..

Edit2: Deleted eh?

Magicyop
2010-10-23, 08:58 AM
You don't stand ON the plane. You stand IN it. Think of a plane as a bubble you live in. There might be a couple planets or something, depending on how big the bubble is, but you certainly don't stand on it.

We're talking about a Demiplane. A Demiplane has no planets. A Demiplane is just a really, really tiny private dimension, it can be shaped like whatever you like.

Edit: I deleted it to move it to the bottom, then I forgot about reposting because of the wait-60-seconds thing, and now I reposted it. :smalltongue: