PDA

View Full Version : Should I allow this?



MrRigger
2010-10-23, 09:40 AM
I'm recruiting players on another forum, and one of them wants to play an Incarnate/re-fluffed Necrocarnate with the Mishtai bloodline. Also in party are a guy who plans to play a bard of some kind (haven't gotten any word on his build other than "I'd like to play a bard", but since I posted the thread yesterday, I'm not worried), and a brand new player who is planning on an Unarmed Swordsage.

Now, I'm not personally familiar with Incarnate or the Necrocarnate, but I've looked over the classes and I'm not too concerned with either of those. I like learning new systems, and MoI seems to be a good read so far. What I'm wondering if I should allow is the Mishtai bloodline, which the player has homebrewed pretty already. I've never used the Bloodline system before, and while what they showed me seems fairly in line with the bloodlines on the SRD, I want a second opinion before I go allowing in something that will completely screw the balance of the rest of the game.

This is what they showed me, and while I'm not seeing anything terribly offensive, I want to make sure I'm having the wool pulled over my eyes with an unfamiliar system.

1st +2 on Concentration checks
2nd Improved Initiative
3rd Constitution +1
4th Resistance to acid 5 (Ex)
5th Mishtai affinity +2*
6th +1 to natural armor
7th +2 on Knowledge (the planes) checks
8th Midnight Dodge
9th Wisdom +1
10th Locate Object 1/day (Sp)
11th Mishtai affinity +4
12th Resistance to acid 10 (Ex)
13th +2 on Handle Animal checks
14th Speak with animal 1/day (Sp)
15th Charisma +1
16th Suggestion 1/day (Sp)
17th Mishtai affinity +6
18th +1 to natural armor
19th +2 on Sense Motive checks
20th Immunity to acid (Ex)

The player mention they would be willing to take an intermediate version of this bloodline instead, if that would help mitigate any problems.

Any help would be appreciated.

MrRigger

Seracain
2010-10-23, 09:48 AM
I know little of the necrocarnate, so I am little help there. The bloodline abilities themselves look in order and seem fine. The real question is how the bloodline levels interact with the prc. Since I don't have my incarnum book on me, I'll have to leave that one to someone else.

Amphetryon
2010-10-23, 09:48 AM
Immunity to Acid may be a teensy bit over the top depending on the general power level you prefer; consider Resistance (20) instead. On the other hand, it's coming at 20th level, so may be fine.

Bloodline levels are notoriously wonky with caster levels and can potentially be abused. Be clear with your player how Necrocarnate levels interact with Bloodline levels, or you could end up surprised with a character who has an effective Meldshaper level several times higher than character level.

awa
2010-10-23, 09:52 AM
nerocarnate is a bad prestige class. you drain life out of creatures to get essentia it lasts all day. the prestige class does not care what you killed so a necrocarnate can buy a hundred chickens for 1 gold and start out with more essentia then he could ever use.

MrRigger
2010-10-23, 11:40 AM
Immunity to Acid may be a teensy bit over the top depending on the general power level you prefer; consider Resistance (20) instead. On the other hand, it's coming at 20th level, so may be fine.

Quite a few of the other Unearthed Arcana Bloodlines have Immunity to (energy type) as their capstone ability. I'm alright with that.


Bloodline levels are notoriously wonky with caster levels and can potentially be abused. Be clear with your player how Necrocarnate levels interact with Bloodline levels, or you could end up surprised with a character who has an effective Meldshaper level several times higher than character level.

And this is the crux of why I came looking for a second opinion. I don't know how bloodlines work with caster/meldshaper level, and I don't want to end up with crazy cheese when the rest of the group doesn't have it. When I asked for the player to give me their interpretation of what would happen, here's what I got.

Bloodlines

I'm losing (3) hitdice, with the accompanying BAB and save boosts. Bloodlines stack for things that are based on level, so my Essentia, Binds, and Max Soulmelds shaped advance, and my meldshaper level "double dips". Meldshaper level controls only a few things though, so i don't think it's broken. Especially at the cost (being behind on HD means not only lower Saves BAB and HP, but less feats)

At level 5

3 Hitdie, BAB+1, 2 feats from levels
3 essentia from class levels
meldshaper level 5

HP = 13 (average, from HItdie) + 15 (con) + 10 (Vitality belt) = 38


At level 8 (when the payoff is)

5 d6 hitdie, BAB +2, 3 feats from levels
7 essentia from class levels
meldshaper level 11

HP = 20 (average from hitdie) + 25 (con) + 33 (Vitality belt) = 78

(for the record, Incarnate is the class with the HIGHEST hp of all classes, since it's CON based and has bonus HP from Vitality Belt. At level 20, an Incarnate can easily have over 400 HP)

I want to make sure this interpretation is correct. And my main reservation comes from the line "so I don't think it's broken". Whenever I've used that line, it's because I was trying desperately to get something allowed that I knew would be broken but didn't want the DM to realize it. Hence why I'm here, asking for advice.


nerocarnate is a bad prestige class. you drain life out of creatures to get essentia it lasts all day. the prestige class does not care what you killed so a necrocarnate can buy a hundred chickens for 1 gold and start out with more essentia then he could ever use.

I'll bear that in mind. Like I said, I'm working with my player to reflavor it so it isn't evil, and slaugtering chickens for personal gain isn't necessarily good, unless you happen to be a chicken farmer. Also, with the way my campaign is planned out, getting a hold of 100 chickens or other similar abusable methods would be difficult. I'm thinking of setting it up so that she can't gain any essentia unless she kills the creature herself, and perhaps a HD restriction. The creature has to be within a certain amount of HD for you to gain essentia, just so things like that don't happen.

MrRigger