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BenTheJester
2010-10-23, 10:46 AM
I really don't see the advantage of making zombies instead of skeletons.

The only thing that zombies have over skelies is the doubling of the HD of the original creature, while I guess this can be useful at low levels, it also means you can't animate creatures with more than 10 HD(while also blowing your control limit on a single creature).

People often suggest using a zombie hydra, but I really don't see what a zombie hydra has over a skeleton hydra(especially considering the fact that you can have a 12-headed skeleton hydra, and only a 10 headed zombie)

dsmiles
2010-10-23, 10:52 AM
From an "against the zombies" perspective: Zombies tend to burn better, what with all the decaying flesh, and all. Skeletons, not so much.

Starbuck_II
2010-10-23, 10:54 AM
I really don't see the advantage of making zombies instead of skeletons.

The only thing that zombies have over skelies is the doubling of the HD of the original creature, while I guess this can be useful at low levels, it also means you can't animate creatures with more than 10 HD(while also blowing your control limit on a single creature).

People often suggest using a zombie hydra, but I really don't see what a zombie hydra has over a skeleton hydra(especially considering the fact that you can have a 12-headed skeleton hydra, and only a 10 headed zombie)

Zombies can fly (if base creature can).
Zombie Dire Bats are decent flyers.

Psyren
2010-10-23, 11:12 AM
Have you ever seen a skeleton say "BRAAAAAAAINS"? It just looks silly.

Mordrigar
2010-10-23, 11:18 AM
Zombies have a game named Plant vs. Zombies, but skellies haven't.

KillianHawkeye
2010-10-23, 11:27 AM
Well, there are pros and cons to each, but it really comes down to practicality. What I mean is that it usually depends on what creature you have to animate and what you want to use it for.

Consider:

1. Winged zombies can fly. Skeletons can't.
2. You can zombify pretty much anything, but you can only skelify creatures with skeletal structures.
3. If your target creature has 10 or fewer Hit Dice, the zombie version will have twice as many hp as the skeleton version.
4. Zombies' natural armor and ability score increases are slightly better than a skeleton's.
5. All zombies gain a slam attack, while only skeletons that have hands gain claw attacks.

On the other hand:

1. Skeletons can be made from more powerful creatures (those whose HD exceed 10).
2. Skeletons are immune to cold.
3. Skeletons' DR is more useful than a zombie's, since slashing weapons are usually more popular than bludgeoning ones (sword > mace).
4. Skeletons get Improved Initiative, while zombies get Toughness.
5. Zombies are slow (they can only take single actions).



Now, as far as the hydras go, as far as I can tell a zombie hydra isn't really too much better than a skeleton hydra. However, as far as zombies go, the hydra does make a pretty darn good one, due to it's ability to make all of its bite attacks without taking a full attack action. Thus, a zombie hydra can get the same number of attacks as a skeleton hydra (one extra if you count the slam), while having twice as many hit points, a higher Strength score, and an AC 1 higher.

Seems like a good deal to me.

So basically, if you need an undead that flies, make a zombie. If you need an undead to be a sack of hp, make a zombie. If you need an undead to attack a frost giant, make a skeleton. If you need a fast undead that makes a lot of attacks, make a skeleton (unless it's a hydra).

Starbuck_II
2010-10-23, 12:00 PM
Don't forget Dragononicon allows a new template:
Dragon zombies (it can exceed 10 HD for base as it doesn't double HD only hps).

CockroachTeaParty
2010-10-23, 04:46 PM
It would be cool if one described giant vermin skeletons as basically just empty husks (since arthropod's exoskeletons effectively function like our skeletal system). Of course, that's precisely the reason arthropods can only be found in relatively mall sizes, as in the real world they would collapse in on themselves, and be unable to breath, move, etc.

Coidzor
2010-10-23, 05:09 PM
Zombies make better trap-springers because they weigh more and they eat up enough of your control pool that you want rid of 'em.

KillianHawkeye
2010-10-23, 07:07 PM
Interesting read. I was thinking the big advantage of zombies over skellies was that those extra HD let them sponge up more of a cleric's turn attempt.

Good point. I forgot about that!

Leon
2010-10-23, 09:32 PM
Start with Zombies and if they dont work out then take the flesh off.

Mando Knight
2010-10-23, 09:38 PM
Zombies have a game named Plant vs. Zombies, but skellies haven't.

Zombies are also the reason why Louis shouts out the location of pills. :smalltongue:

Beelzebub1111
2010-10-23, 09:43 PM
Zombies Hit Dice also give it better saves, and a better BAB than skeletons.

Thrawn183
2010-10-23, 09:47 PM
First off, zombies + skelies together make it less likely the enemy will overcome all of your minions DR.

Most importantly, it's easy to find things to makes zombies out of. You can't always find 15HD corpses to make an awesome skelly. Generally weaker creatures are more plentiful.

KillianHawkeye
2010-10-23, 10:10 PM
Zombies Hit Dice also give it better saves, and a better BAB than skeletons.

Damn, yet another thing I failed to consider! :smallannoyed::smallsigh:

Coidzor
2010-10-24, 12:31 AM
Damn, yet another thing I failed to consider! :smallannoyed::smallsigh:


Zombies Hit Dice also give it better saves, and a better BAB than skeletons.

Of course, once BAB hits 6, zombies can't take iteratives.

herrhauptmann
2010-10-24, 12:41 AM
2. Skeletons are immune to cold.

I thought all undead could ignore cold, sorta like a racial thing. The same way that liches ignore electricity.

Coidzor
2010-10-24, 12:43 AM
I thought all undead could ignore cold, sorta like a racial thing. The same way that liches ignore electricity.

I thought that too, but it's not in their traits. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#undeadType)


An undead creature possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).

* No Constitution score.
* Darkvision out to 60 feet.
* Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
* Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, and death effects.
* Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), as well as to fatigue and exhaustion effects.
* Cannot heal damage on its own if it has no Intelligence score, although it can be healed. Negative energy (such as an inflict spell) can heal undead creatures. The fast healing special quality works regardless of the creature’s Intelligence score.
* Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).
* Uses its Charisma modifier for Concentration checks.
* Not at risk of death from massive damage, but when reduced to 0 hit points or less, it is immediately destroyed.
* Not affected by raise dead and reincarnate spells or abilities. Resurrection and true resurrection can affect undead creatures. These spells turn undead creatures back into the living creatures they were before becoming undead.
* Proficient with its natural weapons, all simple weapons, and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
* Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Undead not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Undead are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
* Undead do not breathe, eat, or sleep.

Dark_Nohn
2010-10-24, 02:42 AM
Start with Zombies and if they dont work out then take the flesh off.

Planned to do this in a campaign, plus had some sort of undeath-bomb on them so they explode when they lose their flesh, I forget where the spell was from, either LM or BoVD. The players got all of the zombies low at about the same time, then all of the zombies just daisy chainned.

jebob
2010-10-24, 04:49 AM
Planned to do this in a campaign, plus had some sort of undeath-bomb on them so they explode when they lose their flesh, I forget where the spell was from, either LM or BoVD. The players got all of the zombies low at about the same time, then all of the zombies just daisy chainned.

Mind if I borrow that? :P

Gaiyamato
2010-10-24, 04:53 AM
Destruction Retribution:
Undead you raise or create harbor a retributive curse that is
unleashed if they are destroyed.
Prerequisite: Corpsecrafter.
Benefi t: Each undead you raise or create with any necromancy
spell releases a burst of negative energy upon its destruction,
dealing 1d6 points of damage plus an additional 1d6 points per
2 Hit Dice to every creature within a 10-foot spread (Refl ex
DC 15 half). This damage comes from negative energy, and it
therefore heals undead creatures.

Libris Mortis

Not quite sure how you daisy chain them.

Ichneumon
2010-10-24, 04:55 AM
Planned to do this in a campaign, plus had some sort of undeath-bomb on them so they explode when they lose their flesh, I forget where the spell was from, either LM or BoVD. The players got all of the zombies low at about the same time, then all of the zombies just daisy chainned.

It's from Libris Mortis.

EDIT: Ninja'd:smalltongue:

Skaven
2010-10-24, 07:19 AM
Hmm, correct me if thesde statements are wrong:

1, zombies can be made from fresh undead, while skeletons take some effort?

2, zombies also don't need an intact body?

Aotrs Commander
2010-10-24, 07:43 AM
Probably the biggest reason to use skeletons instead of zombies is the movement issue. As zombies can only shamble around on one move action a round, it also means their overland speed is very poor. To the point it would hamper an adventuring party. (Now, if you can get a zombie with a flight speed of 60' or more, this becomes less of an issue.) This the major reason I tend to find PCs animators use skeletons.

(You might be able to work round that issue some of the time, if you do what I did, which was buy a portable hole for the specific purpose of storing your Undead! (Though you can arguably get more skeletons in than zombies even then!) However, this is really not a quick-release issue (at least, not if you want to store more than a handful) as it's an out-of-combat Krypton Factor getting them in and out.)

As a purely defensive issue, i.e. when strategic movement is not a criterion(or when using Summoned Undead), there's certainly a good arguement for using Zombies instead, unless the creature gets multiple attacks1.

One other point if you can get more skeletons (especially of humanoids) than you can zombies. This matters if you equip them with ranged weapons. Skeletons are generally better shots than zombies (higher BAB cancels out lower Dex, but skeletons get more Dex). But even then, you'r relying on mass fire for effect, and twice as many skeletons means twice the chance of causing damage. (My Necromancer/Pale Master used this tactic when he couldn't get any decent creatures to raise.)



1Zombie hydras are all well and good but this assumes you can find even one hydra corpse to use in the first place. And animated Undead are best treated as being relatively disposable, as they are kinda fragile. Practically thus often intervenes. (One of the reason I consider Pale Master - or at least the first two levels - to be an essential investment to anyone considering using large amounts of animated Undead is that it get Animate and as SLA, which means it has no GP cost to use. Which means you don't have to worry so much about loosing a few minions.)

Gaiyamato
2010-10-24, 07:51 AM
Corpse Creature from BoVD.
Win!

But I personally go with zombies simply because of the simplicity.
Make-em then toss em away.

KillianHawkeye
2010-10-24, 08:02 AM
Hmm, correct me if thesde statements are wrong:

1, zombies can be made from fresh undead, while skeletons take some effort?

2, zombies also don't need an intact body?

Those statements are both wrong. Assuming you mean a fresh corpse rather than a fresh undead (?), the animate dead spell can create skeletons or zombies with equal ease. Either way, the corpse must be "mostly intact." To create a skeleton, the corpse must have bones. To create a zombie, the corpse must "be that of a creature with a true anatomy."

Coidzor
2010-10-24, 08:21 AM
Hmm, correct me if thesde statements are wrong:

1, zombies can be made from fresh undead, while skeletons take some effort?

2, zombies also don't need an intact body?

Both wrong. Unless there's some ritual that doesn't use the spell Animate Dead. we seem to be discussing D&D 3.5 though...

Zombies need a more intact body than skeletons. However, I believe you can make arthropod zombies but not skeletons (so zombie that damn crabs but no skeleton that damn crabs, thank goodness)

Eldan
2010-10-24, 10:44 AM
Zombies are also the reason why Louis shouts out the location of pills. :smalltongue:

I'd actually like to see a skeleton apocalypse game some time :smalltongue:

LOTRfan
2010-10-24, 10:50 AM
I'd actually like to see a skeleton apocalypse game some time :smalltongue:

You know, I've never actually heard of one of those before.... Skeletons instead of Zombies....

Eldan
2010-10-24, 12:02 PM
You know, I've never actually heard of one of those before.... Skeletons instead of Zombies....

I'd say because a) They don't look like humans anymore, which kills a lot of the symbolism and b) because technobabbling an explanation for them is pretty difficult so they'd have to be magic.

Coidzor
2010-10-24, 01:07 PM
The whole eating the living thing don't work too well either, what with the way teeth work in a skull and it having a decided risk of becoming comical that the flesh the skeleton would eat would fall right out.

...And would also necessitate something to prevent skeletons from going into a circle effect.

Godskook
2010-10-24, 02:12 PM
The main problem is that the "Skeleton apocalypse" implies that there are non-skeletons leading it(i.e., magical necromancers), while the Zombie apocalypse is more stand-alone when need be.

Urpriest
2010-10-24, 02:15 PM
The main problem is that the "Skeleton apocalypse" implies that there are non-skeletons leading it(i.e., magical necromancers), while the Zombie apocalypse is more stand-alone when need be.

Eh, D&D Zombies and Skeletons are equally non-infectious. You just have to come up with a suitably infectious delivery mechanism for skeletons.

LOTRfan
2010-10-24, 02:39 PM
Infectious bone marrow spread through claw attacks?

Yes, its unrealistic, but this is a discussion about the dead coming to life and killing us...

BunnyMaster42
2010-10-24, 02:55 PM
On the topic of a skeleton apocalypse, a while back I was reading a 3rd party book (Tome of Artifacts I believe) when I stumbled upon an artifact that was essentially a magical skeleton. The individual bones could be used separately as magic items, be surgically implanted into someone, or just assembled together to form a skeleton.

The entire point is that once the skeleton is complete it raises anything within a 10 mile radius as a skeleton. Then it would animate itself as a construct that can animate dead once per hour, and all the animated skeletons (with no HD cap) make their way to the articaft-skeleton and attack anything still alive on sight.

It may not be the same as your usual undead apocalypse, but I thought it was pretty awesome anyway. A great place to start if you were really set on making a skeleton apocalypse.

Urpriest
2010-10-24, 03:01 PM
Ooh, here's a cool idea for a skele-apocalypse: Black Cauldron-style. The skeletons drag victims to the Cauldron, where they come out as skeletons. Less efficient than a zombie apocalypse, but much more metal.

BunnyMaster42
2010-10-24, 03:06 PM
Ooh, and then you have multiple similar cauldrons located in varous locations around the country/city/world, each with their own band of skeletons dragging the helpless victims back for de-fleshification. Sounds sweet, but it seems like it's missing something.

Coidzor
2010-10-24, 03:13 PM
A music video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un3-Hb9wF9s), for one thing.

Tvtyrant
2010-10-24, 03:22 PM
You could always do the Morg thing, with a worm that wraps around the bones and uses the body as a puppet. It injects people with their own worms, which eat the body from the inside out and then takes over the puppet-skeleton. Creepier the zombies ever were.

Urpriest
2010-10-24, 03:31 PM
You could always do the Morg thing, with a worm that wraps around the bones and uses the body as a puppet. It injects people with their own worms, which eat the body from the inside out and then takes over the puppet-skeleton. Creepier the zombies ever were.

Not actually how Mohrgs work. Spawn of Kyuss, on the other hand...

Aotrs Commander
2010-10-24, 03:41 PM
I'd actually like to see a skeleton apocalypse game some time :smalltongue:

Why not a Lich apocalypse? That'd be even more awesome. And visually spectacular.

Of course, it'd have to magical "infection", but it could be far worse, since you could go for a "soul-first" infection. So anyone the Liches killed would have their souls corrupted into evil and then have the flesh explode from their bodies (a la Dungeon Keeper's prison-created skeletons).

And of course, Liches are faster and smarter, so it'd be far worse.

(I say this of course, as someone who has never been interested in zombie movies at the best of times, and whose image of zombies has never actually included the zombie movie paradigm. You can blame a combination of Warhammer Armies (the book), playing my first ever Warhammer game with skeletons and Rolemaster.)

BunnyMaster42
2010-10-24, 03:48 PM
A music video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un3-Hb9wF9s), for one thing.

While unfortunately I have no idea what video you linked to, it did remind me of that awesome B-17 scene from Heavy Metal. While I don't know if the things from that scenes were more zombie or skeleton, the hole idea of some sort of mysterious item animating the dead around it seems to be a prety decent start for a skele-apocalypse I think.

Tvtyrant
2010-10-24, 03:48 PM
While unfortunately I have no idea what video you linked to, it did remind me of that awesome B-17 scene from Heavy Metal. While I don't know if the things from that scenes were more zombie or skeleton, the hole idea of some sort of mysterious item animating the dead around it seems to be a prety decent start for a skele-apocalypse I think.

Michael Jackson's Thriller mate.

ArcanistSupreme
2010-10-24, 03:57 PM
Destruction Retribution:
Undead you raise or create harbor a retributive curse that is
unleashed if they are destroyed.
Prerequisite: Corpsecrafter.
Benefi t: Each undead you raise or create with any necromancy
spell releases a burst of negative energy upon its destruction,
dealing 1d6 points of damage plus an additional 1d6 points per
2 Hit Dice to every creature within a 10-foot spread (Refl ex
DC 15 half). This damage comes from negative energy, and it
therefore heals undead creatures.

Libris Mortis

Not quite sure how you daisy chain them.

It wouldn't, but each time you killed one, it would heal its buddies and hurt the adventurers. It's fun to do with rat skeletons.

Anterean
2010-10-24, 05:13 PM
Eh, D&D Zombies and Skeletons are equally non-infectious. You just have to come up with a suitably infectious delivery mechanism for skeletons.

There is an infectious zombie variant in pathfinder though

Dark_Nohn
2010-10-24, 05:41 PM
Destruction Retribution:
Undead you raise or create harbor a retributive curse that is
unleashed if they are destroyed.
Prerequisite: Corpsecrafter.
Benefi t: Each undead you raise or create with any necromancy
spell releases a burst of negative energy upon its destruction,
dealing 1d6 points of damage plus an additional 1d6 points per
2 Hit Dice to every creature within a 10-foot spread (Refl ex
DC 15 half). This damage comes from negative energy, and it
therefore heals undead creatures.

Libris Mortis

Not quite sure how you daisy chain them.

Hmm, not sure if this is what it was, seems almost exactly like it, but I thought it was smashing damage, and a spell instead of a feat, so it might be a different effect.

BunnyMaster42
2010-10-24, 05:41 PM
Michael Jackson's Thriller mate.

Ah, well that makes sense. No idea why that video would be banned in Canada though...

Zhalath
2010-10-24, 06:51 PM
Are there rules to add the variant undead things from Libris Mortis? That would probably sway the argument a leetle. At least, for me.

Dante & Vergil
2010-10-25, 12:57 AM
Ooh, here's a cool idea for a skele-apocalypse: Black Cauldron-style. The skeletons drag victims to the Cauldron, where they come out as skeletons. Less efficient than a zombie apocalypse, but much more metal.

There are stats for the Black Cauldron in Dragon 340. It's pretty mean in that it counts undead you reanimate from it as 1 HD for the perposes of controling them, if you cast Animate Dead on it with a body in Cauldron, Skeletons keep coming out, and if you just leave a body in there, after some time it reanimates itself into a Cauldron Born, which is a super skeleton.

Jergmo
2010-10-25, 01:53 AM
Eh, D&D Zombies and Skeletons are equally non-infectious. You just have to come up with a suitably infectious delivery mechanism for skeletons.

Maximized, Empowered Fell Animate Contagion, with Spell Focus(Necromancy) and Greater Spell Focus(Necromancy), choosing Slimy doom, which is spread by contact, and your starter zombies are infected with it. You won't end up controlling most of them, but it's good for starting an apocalypse. Ad hoc rules to apply Libris Mortis templates is also fun.

A city in my campaign is currently lousy with Bloodthirsty Diseased zombies enhanced by Corpsecrafter and Nimble Bones, with said magical plague floating about. Spread by 1st level clerics with the Plague domain, which makes them immune to the disease, but they still act as carriers.

Quincunx
2010-10-25, 02:00 AM
Skeleton net power is way too high for their health, so if you're running Black Sabbath enchantment and gaining automatic low level undead, which if you're not you've been dispelled or you're an idiot black mage, you have to disband them every few turns lest they boost your net po. . .sorry, wrong game.

The Skeleton Apocalypse MUST involve the bone cathedral exploding into unlife and reassembling itself into an instant shambling horde. Fear the gazebo. DREAD the cathedral.

DragonOfUndeath
2010-10-25, 02:29 AM
Bah Cathedrals are merely the weaker cousins of the almighty gazebo, like Tigers are to Housecats

Dsurion
2010-10-25, 08:32 AM
There's an old Sega Saturn game called Mr. Bones that I think handled a Skeleton apocalypse fairly well if you substitute the Blues aspect for Magic :smalltongue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHLd-u78Ouk

jmbrown
2010-10-25, 08:40 AM
Zombies are designed to soak up damage. Because a zombie's hit dice always increase faster than any cleric could possibly match their CR, they're practically impossible to turn by anything but the most specialized cleric. They're low level shock troops with incredibly high HP and HD for their CR. Combine low CR zombies with more powerful undead and clerics will find their turn checks wasted as they must turn the closest undead first.

Combine zombies with the Libris Mortis feat that causes undead to explode and you have walking nuclear bombs that can take a hit and explode into negative energy.

Dark_Nohn
2010-10-28, 07:15 PM
Destruction Retribution:
Undead you raise or create harbor a retributive curse that is
unleashed if they are destroyed.
Prerequisite: Corpsecrafter.
Benefi t: Each undead you raise or create with any necromancy
spell releases a burst of negative energy upon its destruction,
dealing 1d6 points of damage plus an additional 1d6 points per
2 Hit Dice to every creature within a 10-foot spread (Refl ex
DC 15 half). This damage comes from negative energy, and it
therefore heals undead creatures.

Libris Mortis

Not quite sure how you daisy chain them.

Was with the Unliving Weapon spell from BoVD, does 1d6/2CL untyped damage whenever they take 1 point of damage, so a pile all with this spell will always daisy chain.

Urpriest
2010-10-28, 07:45 PM
There's an old Sega Saturn game called Mr. Bones that I think handled a Skeleton apocalypse fairly well if you substitute the Blues aspect for Magic :smalltongue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHLd-u78Ouk

Hell, keep the Blues aspect. Make it a bardocalypse.

Dark_Nohn
2010-10-28, 08:00 PM
Hell, keep the Blues aspect. Make it a bardocalypse.

Dirgesinger has a use!

Otodetu
2010-10-29, 11:04 AM
There is an infectious zombie variant in pathfinder though

It is called a ghoul in 3.5 and is the scariest zombie ever.
Why do people never mention that the classic zombie is so much closer to a ghoul than a "zombie"?

Coidzor
2010-10-29, 11:21 AM
Mostly because ghoul fever would need a buff to be effective.

Seriously, 5 days to kill a CON 10 commoner with max CON damage rolled and then the wait until midnight could bump it up to effectively 6 days. and the fortitude save out of the box is a 12. A character with max ranks in heal makes that on an 8 at level one with a 10 wisdom. Since the afflicted rolls as well as the healer, that's a roll of an 8 or a 12, so fairly good odds of overcoming it if Mr. commoner gets away from the ghoul.

No chance of rising as a ghoul unless the ghouls intentionally ties the commoner down somewhere and infect him. Not very zombie-apocalypsey.

ScionoftheVoid
2010-10-29, 12:46 PM
Mostly because ghoul fever would need a buff to be effective.

Seriously, 5 days to kill a CON 10 commoner with max CON damage rolled and then the wait until midnight could bump it up to effectively 6 days. and the fortitude save out of the box is a 12. A character with max ranks in heal makes that on an 8 at level one with a 10 wisdom. Since the afflicted rolls as well as the healer, that's a roll of an 8 or a 12, so fairly good odds of overcoming it if Mr. commoner gets away from the ghoul.

No chance of rising as a ghoul unless the ghouls intentionally ties the commoner down somewhere and infect him. Not very zombie-apocalypsey.

Couldn't it work if you had lots of Ghouls ganging up on smaller numbers of living beings? The point of most zombie apocalypse scenarios is being heavily outnumbered, is it not?

Coidzor
2010-10-29, 12:58 PM
Couldn't it work if you had lots of Ghouls ganging up on smaller numbers of living beings? The point of most zombie apocalypse scenarios is being heavily outnumbered, is it not?

Except ghouls wanna eat people as well, so them intentionally trying to make the entire world ghouls is generally out of character for them, they're intelligent enough to mostly want to eat rather than breed to the point where they don't have anything to eat. And also requires them to go against their natural urges by letting ghoul fever finish people off rather than nom 'em till there's nothing left to animate as a ghoul.

Malbordeus
2010-10-29, 01:24 PM
the contagion thing might work with fortify? spell and fell animate to hit up the DC. or an epic spell like plaguewind. or you use create undead to create a plagueblight and have it sit in a well. oooh, how would this work..

A Black lore of moil, fell drained, fell animate, Fortified Contagion?
you'd need to spank a load of mm reducers though.

on the point of skeletons vs zombies... skeletons can be soaked in brittlebone which makes them shatter when killed, inflicting pieercing damage all around them. therefore funnier when your animating with destruction retribution. and some kind of embalming fluid that makes zombies ignite.

personally i preferr to animate skeletons, and use my rebukes to comand wights... also if i need flying stuff, theres a wight template in savage species. and the creature doesnt loose actions so its faster. also wights are easy to create without expensive componants.