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Nick_mi
2010-10-23, 12:43 PM
Ok, so I'm in a campaign starting at level 3. We start with 2700 gold. I am a changeling barbarian with whirlwind frenzy variant. My idea is to go into warshaper, sprout two claws(and maybe a bite if I'm feeling overwhelmed).

Here is my current plan
Barb2/Fighter2/warshaper4

I'm losing uncanny dodge for an extra feat, so at level 3 with two flaws I have 6 feats to work with. One of my flaws is that I am not proficient in any other weapon besides a mercurial greatsword, so at the moment, my feats look like.

Extra Rage
Exotic WP: M. Greatsword
Power Attack
Improved unarmed strike
Multi Attack
Improved bullrush

The last thing of note is taht I have a -2 skill modifer so that's killing me. I'm thinking about getting some fist of the forests after those 8 levels, but it will depend on if the world I'm in is viable for that sort of character.

So what I'm looking for is more PrC ideas, good items to spend my 2.1k on, and feat ideas, or just ideas in general.

Thanks :)

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=248637

Urpriest
2010-10-23, 03:07 PM
Has the game already started, or are you able to alter the character? That's usually a precondition for advice, and your post makes it unclear.

If you can mess with things: am I correct in thinking that you've got a flaw that forces you to use a weapon that you then must take a feat to use? So you're gaining a feat only to be forced to spend it? This seems less than useful.

Your Improved Unarmed Strike and your EWP:Mercurial Greatsword don't really mesh either. Which are you planning on using?

Psyren
2010-10-23, 03:25 PM
I agree with UP - why bother taking the flaw if you're going to blow the bonus feat it gives on a weapon that isn't even core to your build?

Nick_mi
2010-10-23, 03:27 PM
The game has not started yet. The idea is I intend on using a mercuriel great sword, so it's going to cost me a feat anyways. So basically the flaw adds flavor to my character, and it just prevents me from using any other weapon without a -4 attack to it.

Also, as I said with warshaper I plan on sprotuing two claws/hands so the idea is to swing with the greatsword and attack with my two secondary weapons, which is why I have improved unarmed strike, and multi attack.

Urpriest
2010-10-23, 04:07 PM
The game has not started yet. The idea is I intend on using a mercuriel great sword, so it's going to cost me a feat anyways. So basically the flaw adds flavor to my character, and it just prevents me from using any other weapon without a -4 attack to it.

Also, as I said with warshaper I plan on sprotuing two claws/hands so the idea is to swing with the greatsword and attack with my two secondary weapons, which is why I have improved unarmed strike, and multi attack.

But unarmed strikes aren't relevant for claw attacks, and you'd be making them instead of (rather than in addition to) greatsword attacks, which just means weaker attacks since you aren't optimized for unarmed strikes.

As for the claws, you're holding a weapon. It's pretty clear that if your hands are occupied you can't use your claws, and while you can sprout more claws, you can't sprout more hands. You could probably grab wing attacks, though...or tentacles, but that just leads to broken warshaper infinite natural attacks cheese.

Nick_mi
2010-10-23, 04:14 PM
And I don't want to go into that. I want to swing my greatsword, and make 2-3 additional smaller attacks. I'm not sure how to do that effectively, which is why I came here for advice. What I have posted is my thoughts and the knowledge I have on what I can do, which as you can see is rather limited. So suggestions? :)

Greenish
2010-10-23, 04:32 PM
And I don't want to go into that. I want to swing my greatsword, and make 2-3 additional smaller attacks. I'm not sure how to do that effectively, which is why I came here for advice. What I have posted is my thoughts and the knowledge I have on what I can do, which as you can see is rather limited. So suggestions? :)Some totemist/totem rager, perhaps. Though I think girallon arms had a nasty clause on them so you couldn't use them with a weapon, but there was another one that gave no-hands-needed claws…

Checking.

[Edit]: Girallon Arms soulmeld will allow using a weapon, but not a shield, I must've confused it with Girallon's Blessing the spell.

Lamia Belt works too, but it's [Evil] and as written doesn't allow strength to add on the claw attacks.

Calmar
2010-10-23, 04:40 PM
And I don't want to go into that. I want to swing my greatsword, and make 2-3 additional smaller attacks. I'm not sure how to do that effectively, which is why I came here for advice. What I have posted is my thoughts and the knowledge I have on what I can do, which as you can see is rather limited. So suggestions? :)

How do you want to attack someone with hands you already used to swing your sword at?

Greenish
2010-10-23, 04:42 PM
How do you want to attack someone with hands you already used to swing your sword at?You shape a couple of extra hands out of the soul-stuff of the dead, the living and the yet unborn? :smallwink:

Eldariel
2010-10-23, 04:46 PM
Take Improved Unarmed Strike, Superior Unarmed Strike and TWF-lane with Fighter-levels if necessary. Monk also offers few interesting options; if you can start as an Ex-Monk, that'd be free IUS with some other bonus feats you don't need to meet the prerequisites for.

Monk 2/Barbarian 1 could be a decent starting point. Obviously Ex-Monk but that has no drawbacks other than, y'know, not being able to take levels in Monk anymore. Seems like a nice starting point. Fist of the Forests would actually make Superior Unarmed Strike unnecessary as you'd get nice 1d10 Unarmed Damage die even without it.

Then you can TWF your Merculite Greatsword and Unarmed Strike and profit. Both even benefit of Power Attack. In other words, you can add kicks and elbows and whatever in lieu of your sword strikes. Warshaper would add Bite if you feel so inclined.


But yeah, you can't use Claws if you use those hands for attacks already so...no dice there. Of course, Totem Rager is the other major viable option, getting you extra limbs for claws and stuff.

Nick_mi
2010-10-23, 11:01 PM
I am 100% aware I can't claw with my hands that are gripping my sword. I would grow claws out of my torso and attack with those. Ok, exactly does monk give me? Can I find that elsewhere in a PrC? I really don't want to take the BA hit, as I want warshaper asap.

Also, what is Greenish talking about? Girilion?

Nick_mi
2010-10-24, 03:12 AM
Still looking for some ideas/suggestions

Eldariel
2010-10-24, 03:58 AM
Monk just grants you a really convenient bunch of feats, and the Unarmed Strike class feature. If you're gonna use the Unarmed Strike-path, that's by far the easiest way to go. Now, the "other way" is Girallon Arms soulmeld from Magic of Incarnum. That basically gives you 4 clawed arms to work with, like a Girallon.

There's a prestige class in the book called "Totem Rager" which combines Barbarian with Totemist (the class which gets Girallon Arms among other things). Sounds like exactly the thing you're looking for.

Urpriest
2010-10-24, 10:47 AM
I am 100% aware I can't claw with my hands that are gripping my sword. I would grow claws out of my torso and attack with those. Ok, exactly does monk give me? Can I find that elsewhere in a PrC? I really don't want to take the BA hit, as I want warshaper asap.

Also, what is Greenish talking about? Girilion?

I feel like growing claws out of your torso goes beyond the warshaper ability...you grow new weapons, but new limbs seems odd. Not odd to an unbalanced degree (as said previously, you could grow tentacles or something and get around the whole problem), just odd. It's really part of the inherent ambiguity of the class.

Nick_mi
2010-10-24, 11:47 AM
Can anyone help explain soulmelding to me, and chakra. I just brought up the book and tried reading it, but I am very confused.

gbprime
2010-10-24, 12:00 PM
If your DM isn'tusing that book, you probably don't want to go there. :smallamused:

Eldariel
2010-10-24, 12:04 PM
Can anyone help explain soulmelding to me, and chakra. I just brought up the book and tried reading it, but I am very confused.

Magic of Incarnum for Dummies (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-153196.html).


It's fairly simple tho:
- Depending on your Constitution and Class Level, you can have a certain number of Soulmelds melded. Soulmelds from Shape Soulmeld feat do not count against your Class Level Limit, of course. See each class's table. The Constitution maximum is your "Con Score Minus 10"; so Con 14 gives you maximum of 4 shaped soulmelds, for example.
- In the beginning of the day, you assign your composite Essentia from race and class between your Soulmelds (and any other receptors like some feats from the book). Note that it's not consumed, merely assigned. You can reassign it each day. In other words, your Essentia total is fixed (other than gaining extra from levels/feats/spells, obviously - I mean, it's not "used" when you assign it, merely it's there granting bonus until you reassign it).
- Maximum Essentia Capacity each of your Soulmelds has depends on your level. See Page 19 for the table. Though some class features and feats can modify this.
- Chakra Binds are essentially magic item slots. Then there's an extra per class, be it Totem, Heart or Soul. You can either have your Soulmelds just as Soulmelds to get their basic effect, or you can bind them to a Chakra (as long as you are not using a magic item in that slot). The number of Chakras you have open increases by level, and there are feats which can open some Chakras. Basically though, Chakras are there to grant extra effects if you bind a Soulmeld to one (and the effect is always defined on the Chakra). See Page 50 for more on this.

And Totemist is the class you want. It's a perfect pair for Barbarian especially if you wanna be sprouting Claws all over the place. There's the Totem Rager-class just for that combo.

Nick_mi
2010-10-24, 12:25 PM
Ok, but when I looked up girlion claws, it tells me nothing about the claws, just that I get a +2 to grapple and climb

Also, so if I am not wearing bracers, I create a chakra in the bracer slot to boost my soulmelding, and if I find magic bracers I have to get rid of my chakra to wear them?

Eldariel
2010-10-24, 12:43 PM
Ok, but when I looked up girlion claws, it tells me nothing about the claws, just that I get a +2 to grapple and climb

That's where Chakra Binds come in. Bind Girallon Arms to your Totem Chakra (level 2+ Totemist) for "You gain four claws that you can use as natural weapons, dealing 1d4 points of damage with each claw." This is stated right after the basic description.


Also, so if I am not wearing bracers, I create a chakra in the bracer slot to boost my soulmelding, and if I find magic bracers I have to get rid of my chakra to wear them?

It's one or the other; if you want to use the Bracers, you can't use the Chakra Bind and vice versa (see page 50 for which chakra bind matches which body slot). That said, you only tend to have a couple of slots taken by Chakra Binds so you can still fit all the magic items you'll want quite easily.

Nick_mi
2010-10-24, 12:49 PM
Ok, so when I "Grow 4 arms" does that mean I'll have 6? Also, what does investing more points into it do, or should I do multiple soulmelds, and if so what would you suggest?

Eldariel
2010-10-24, 01:03 PM
Ok, so when I "Grow 4 arms" does that mean I'll have 6? Also, what does investing more points into it do, or should I do multiple soulmelds, and if so what would you suggest?

You'll have 4 claws; they won't exactly work as arms but yeah, they can claw people. Though if you use a weapon, you can only use 3 of them; whatever, should be fine. And investing more essentia simply improves the base benefit of bonus to Grapple-checks and Climb-checks, but with this bind it also improves your claw damage and to hit. So yeah, iz nice.

As for other Soulmelds, definitely. Which you want depends on you. There's a ton of good ones; Manticore Belt, Blink Shirt, Sphinx Claws (though if you have Pounce from Barbarian, they become redundant), Dread Carapace, etc. You'll need to go through them yourself and see which interest you. Do note the Chakra Binds; that's where the good stuff usually is.


You could consult the Totemist Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2943.0). The "Class Features" post notably has an example Totemist/Barbarian/Totem Rager.

DanReiv
2010-10-24, 01:18 PM
I'd loose the EWP too and extra rage for dungeoncrasher fighter ACF and Knockback.

Cloak of predatory vigor. 1400 gp for a heal equal to your hit dice while in rage/frenzy. 2d12+1D10 at start, 2d12+4d10 @ lvl6. twice a day and swift action to activate.

Counterstrike bracers. 2500 gp, grant an immediate AOO when opponents miss a melee attack twice a day.

Both from MIC.

Hope it helps.

Nick_mi
2010-10-24, 01:47 PM
man, totemist is ridiculous. Just reading some of these abilities.

So for girallion arms, can I meld it with my chrak to arms AND totem?

Also, can someone show me the claw damage progression starting at 1d4?

Eldariel
2010-10-24, 02:26 PM
man, totemist is ridiculous. Just reading some of these abilities.

So for girallion arms, can I meld it with my chrak to arms AND totem?

Also, can someone show me the claw damage progression starting at 1d4?

You can't bind the same soulmeld to multiple chakras. Presumably the other function of Girallon Arms is if you already have Claws. Anyways, 1d4 progresses to 1d6, 1d8, 2d6, 2d8, 3d8, etc. in sizes. But that shouldn't matter all that much. Base damage isn't so major anyways.

EDIT: Wait, 2d6 advances to 3d6. Woops.

Nick_mi
2010-10-24, 02:27 PM
What can I do to increase those? I'm already taking improved unarmed strike, and warshaper will also allow it to go up

Urpriest
2010-10-24, 02:29 PM
What can I do to increase those? I'm already taking improved unarmed strike, and warshaper will also allow it to go up

Then that's likely enough. There are a few other things, but in general it's better just to have a lot of Str, which you can get with all your warshaper/totem rager shenanigans.

Nick_mi
2010-10-24, 04:11 PM
Ok, so it looks like
Barbarian2/totemist3/warshaper4/totem ragerX

Master Thrower
2010-10-24, 04:36 PM
Or frenzied beserker. in the complete warrior. barbarian 6/ FB x or if you want feats barbarian 4/fighter 2/FB X. Get a mericful weapon for +1d6 damage and you cant kill your party anymore as you only deal nonlethal.

Nick_mi
2010-10-24, 04:39 PM
I have no wish to go frenzied beserker.

Nick_mi
2010-10-24, 09:07 PM
So I'm reading the totemest handguide and I feel like there is a debate between pure totemist and barb into totem ranger. I can't seem to figure out specifically what they are talking about. Any ideas?

Nick_mi
2010-10-25, 12:24 PM
still looking for ideas. game starts tonight

Quietus
2010-10-25, 12:48 PM
Posting multiple times in a row like that for no reason other than keeping your thread at the top of the page is frowned upon, I believe. Besides, your barb/totemist/warshaper/totem rager stub looks pretty solid.

Last Laugh
2010-10-25, 01:27 PM
If it hasn't been said yet trying to squish in Aberrant Blood and Inhuman Reach would increase your reach by 5'!!(you take -2 to attacks)
(both from LoM)