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Lateral
2010-10-23, 02:50 PM
A good battlefield control wizard, not a blaster.

Edit: I only have PHB.

WinWin
2010-10-23, 02:58 PM
Largely depends on your party composition. Synergising the effects you can produce with other characters is great for control.

Generally choose powers that have effect over those that do damage, then ask your DM to include a few of the items that enhance those effects in a treasure parcel.

As a rule you should take powers that complement each other. A basic example is Ray of Frost and Thunderwave. Ray of Frost slows the target (movement 2), Thunderwave Pushes the target away. Assuming you have a high wisdom or are fighting in difficult terrain, you can prevent an enemy from closing in melee.

Hzurr
2010-10-23, 03:22 PM
See those powers that do lots of damage? Ignore those, that's not your job.

There are 2 different approaches for wizards. 1, is to focus on lots of area of effect spells. This is particularly useful if your DM really likes minions.

More useful, however, are powers that lock enemies down, and prevent them from doing what they want. Two excellent examples of this are the powers "Vision of Avarice" and "Vision of Ruin." Great spells that lock enemies in place. Other things like any of the wall spells, or stinking cloud that can help you separate parts of the battlefield are also very useful. Artillery Monsters become useless when there is a giant cloud of poisonous gas or a wall of fire around them that blocks line of sight.

Mando Knight
2010-10-23, 04:28 PM
As a rule you should take powers that complement each other. A basic example is Ray of Frost and Thunderwave. Ray of Frost slows the target (movement 2), Thunderwave Pushes the target away. Assuming you have a high wisdom or are fighting in difficult terrain, you can prevent an enemy from closing in melee.

That's a bad example: Ray of Frost doesn't slow the enemy down long enough for Thunderwave's push to mean anything with respect to the Ray. Better is using White Lotus Hindrance with Thunderwave, since that creates semi-difficult terrain around you, preventing the enemies from getting at you.

Tengu_temp
2010-10-23, 05:49 PM
Sleep is one of the best dailies you can get. Pick it and never let go.

Kurald Galain
2010-10-23, 07:06 PM
A good battlefield control wizard, not a blaster.

Edit: I only have PHB.

Okay, that can be done quite well.

The two main strategies are (1) putting down zones or walls, and (2) action denial (which generally means daze, blind, or the sleep spell; the slowed condition is not so useful in practice). An extra strategy, since you're using those zones anyway, is to push enemies into them using Thunderwave.

For example,
W. Thunderwave, Scorching Burst
E. Icy Terrain
D. Sleep, Flaming Sphere
2. Jump, Shield
3. Color Spray
5. Stinking Cloud, Web
6. Wall of Fog, Dimension Door
7. Fire Shroud
9. Wall of Fire, Ice Storm

Most of these should be self-explanatory. Jump is useful since moving allies around is also a form of battlefield control (and it can e.g. get them out of your zones). I'm listing Fire Shroud at L7 because the PHB1 doesn't really have good picks for a wizard at that level.

Good races for a wizard include Eladrin (because teleportation is that awesome), Elf (for the reroll ability) and Dwarf (if you want to be a frontliner). Tiefling works, but really requires splatbook support to be effective. Human is a common pitfall: there aren't many interesting wizard feats in PHB1, and a third at-will will see very little playtime on levels 3 and up (whereas a good racial power will be used every single encounter).

Good feats, well, most of the good wizard feats aren't in PHB1. A multiclass feat is recommended. Jack of all Trades and Leather Armor are decent

Mando Knight
2010-10-23, 07:12 PM
Good races for a wizard include Eladrin (because teleportation is that awesome), Elf (for the reroll ability) and Dwarf (if you want to be a frontliner).

Also, if the Essentials updates (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4news/essentials) are available, you can swap the Elf's Wis bonus for an Int one, though that decreases some secondary effects on spells.

Lateral
2010-10-23, 07:32 PM
Okay, cool. If it helps, I'm level 13 and I could probably use a feat from a splatbook, just not classes. Also you'd have to describe to me what they do. What about Expanded Spellbook? Is it worth it?

Mando Knight
2010-10-23, 07:35 PM
What about Expanded Spellbook? Is it worth it?
No. Think about how many times you know ahead of time which Daily spell is going to be more useful, and how many times you couldn't choose just two good ones out of the list.

Kurald Galain
2010-10-24, 04:17 AM
Okay, cool. If it helps, I'm level 13 and I could probably use a feat from a splatbook, just not classes.
Enlarge Spell. Makes all your at-will and encounter powers one size bigger. This is easily the best wizard feat printed. Requires wis 13.
Arcane Familiar, gives you a familiar.
Implement Expertise gives you +1 to hit, +2 at level 15, +3 at level 25.
Also worth considering is Quickdraw, so you can carry more than two implements for the various powers and abilities. Requires dex 13.


What about Expanded Spellbook? Is it worth it?
No. If you have a day's worth of encounters where neither of your dailies of one level is useful, then you've picked the wrong dailies.

Lateral
2010-10-24, 07:39 AM
Enlarge Spell. Makes all your at-will and encounter powers one size bigger. This is easily the best wizard feat printed. Requires wis 13.

Like, a blast 3 becomes blast 4? Sweet.

Crow
2010-10-24, 12:10 PM
A good battlefield control wizard, not a blaster.

Edit: I only have PHB.

Wrong Edition.

Mando Knight
2010-10-24, 12:20 PM
Also worth considering is Quickdraw, so you can carry more than two implements for the various powers and abilities. Requires dex 13.

Also, Dual Implement Spellcaster. If you're going to be dealing damage with your best powers anyway, why not make it more damage?

Aron Times
2010-10-24, 12:36 PM
Wrong Edition.
Ignorant post is ignorant.

Wizards are the best when it comes to battlefield control in 4e, easily tying up about half of the enemy force each encounter. On the other hand, when it comes to debuffing (and mind control), the psion is king.

tcrudisi
2010-10-24, 12:45 PM
Also, Dual Implement Spellcaster. If you're going to be dealing damage with your best powers anyway, why not make it more damage?

I politely disagree with this statement. 1) It requires Dex 13, which you are unlikely to have. 2) While DIS is a great way to increase your damage output, there are better feats to take outside the PHB to improve your control. Or, basically, if you are going to step outside the PHB already, don't do it for a damaging feat and instead take one that is more control based.

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/25095865/The_Power_of_Knowledge_-_The_Wizards_Handbook?pg=1 This link should help the OP considerably.

Mando Knight
2010-10-24, 01:02 PM
I politely disagree with this statement. 1) It requires Dex 13, which you are unlikely to have.

If you're taking Quick Draw, a decent feat for many Wizards, you'll have at least 13 Dex anyway. Furthermore, he's starting at level 13. Having 13 Dex then is ridiculously easy for a Wizard, especially since Strength is the most likely dumped stat for a Wizard (except for a Genasi Blaster-Wizard).

tcrudisi
2010-10-24, 01:58 PM
If you're taking Quick Draw, a decent feat for many Wizards, you'll have at least 13 Dex anyway. Furthermore, he's starting at level 13. Having 13 Dex then is ridiculously easy for a Wizard, especially since Strength is the most likely dumped stat for a Wizard (except for a Genasi Blaster-Wizard).

Yes, but he'll prefer Cha 13 over Dex 13, since Spell Focus is PHB1 and for his purposes (control-oriented), Spell Focus far surpasses even a combination of DiS and Quick Draw.

As for Quick Draw, it's a good feat, but Improved Init is better. Alternatively, if the DM is going to use the Adventurer's Vault, I would instead look to the Familiar feat, since he can take the Disembodied Hand for maximum Orb-switching.

TheEmerged
2010-10-24, 02:06 PM
Next piece of advice: put down the $10 (if I remember the price right) for the character generation software so you have all the errata, feats, etc. This should frankly be the first 4th Edition purchase any player makes.

Next, let me agree with the others that answered that Expanded Spellbook is a waste of a perfectly good feat slot. You'd be better off taking Skill Focus, and I'm not being sarcastic (2 of the 5 characters in the party I DM have SF).

Dual Implement is a bit of a mixed bag. You're in Paragon levels, right? That means DIS will essentially be helping to counteract the damage lost to Enlarge Spell. There are higher priorities, but it's not a wasted feat either.

And let me just say, Fire Shroud at 7th Level is almost like Sleep as the 1st Level daily -- almost a given.

Mando Knight
2010-10-24, 03:17 PM
Yes, but he'll prefer Cha 13 over Dex 13, since Spell Focus is PHB1 and for his purposes (control-oriented), Spell Focus far surpasses even a combination of DiS and Quick Draw.

Getting both is ridiculously easy even at level 1, and a level 13 character isn't exactly starved for feats.

Aron Times
2010-10-24, 03:22 PM
He only really needs 12 dex or cha because all characters get +1 to all stats at level 11 and at level 21.

Lateral
2010-10-24, 03:23 PM
Sheesh, don't start arguing about this.

Kurald Galain
2010-10-24, 04:58 PM
Well, it depends.


Spell Focus is only good if you have a lot of (save ends) spells. Interestingly, many good control spells, such as Wall of Fire and Color Spray, aren't (save ends). Of course, Sleep is a good reason all by itself.
Dual Implement is only useful if you have two implements that are +3 or better (because if not, Weapon/Implement Focus or Destructive Wizardry is generally easier). It is effective, but primarily a blaster feat, and does not synergize with "implement juggling".
Arcane Familiar + Imp Initiative is, indeed, better than Quick Draw. However, it is also two feats instead of one. The disembodied hand is a good pick unless you want a different familiar for flavor reasons (most familiars don't actually do anything useful in terms of crunch; there are a few exceptions including said hand).
It is indeed viable to have dex 13, wis 13, and cha 13, especially by paragon. Second, you could start with intelligence 20 at level one to maximize your to-hit rate. And third, you could want a 14-16 wisdom to improve your Thunderwave. You probably can't do all three of the above.


So there are several tradeoffs here worth considering. You can do decent damage with a controller wizard, at the cost of a few items and feats; or you can minimize your damage, spend feats/items elsewhere, and have the added bonus that your allies won't mind so much if they get caught in the crossfire (hint: Thunderwaving your allies tends to be a good tactical option). You can focus on zone/wall effects, or on (save ends) effects; in the latter case, you want Spell Focus, and in the former case, you don't; you can also have a bit of both, of course. You can spend most of your money buying low-level items for implement juggling, or you can use it for something expensive instead. All are valid options, it depends on your playstyle.

Katana_Geldar
2010-10-24, 05:27 PM
Grounding shot isn't a bad feat to get either, particularly is you get icy terrain or Acid Mire.

Mando Knight
2010-10-24, 05:31 PM
Grounding shot isn't a bad feat to get either, particularly is you get icy terrain or Acid Mire.

It only affects Ranged attacks, and quite a few Wizard builds ignore such powers entirely.

Katana_Geldar
2010-10-24, 05:37 PM
Well, I'm a hybrid so I'll just go and do something else... :smallfrown:

TheEmerged
2010-10-24, 06:36 PM
Sheesh, don't start arguing about this.

/humor on
Duuude... this is the internet. Telling people not to argue here is like going to a bar to preach temperence :smallredface:

Lateral
2010-10-26, 07:26 PM
Alright, I'm about to make the character but I can't decide between githzerai and elf. One gets both wisdom and int bonuses and Iron Mind, but the other gets 7 square move speed and Elven Accuracy. Any help?

Blackfang108
2010-10-27, 04:04 PM
Alright, I'm about to make the character but I can't decide between githzerai and elf. One gets both wisdom and int bonuses and Iron Mind, but the other gets 7 square move speed and Elven Accuracy. Any help?

Honestly, between the two, I'd use Githzerai. the +2 INT will come in more handy than the +1 speed, and I'd argue Eladrin before Elf, if you want a rather Fey-type Magician.

DragonBaneDM
2010-10-27, 04:44 PM
I notice Arcane Reach hasn't been mentioned in here. I see it mainly used to enhance Sword Burst for Swordmages, but I figure dropping a Thunderwave 2 squares away would be pretty sweet!

Wall of Fire, Illusionary Wall, Sleep, and the aforementioned Visions are on my hit list for this class.

Mando Knight
2010-10-27, 05:23 PM
Honestly, between the two, I'd use Githzerai. the +2 INT will come in more handy than the +1 speed, and I'd argue Eladrin before Elf, if you want a rather Fey-type Magician.

Elves can get an Int bonus, too. You just have to play under a DM who lets you use the Essentials stats for them, which gives them a floating +2 Int or Wis.

Blackfang108
2010-10-27, 10:10 PM
Elves can get an Int bonus, too. You just have to play under a DM who lets you use the Essentials stats for them, which gives them a floating +2 Int or Wis.

Right... those books...

Why didn't WotC do that at first? That would make things so much easier.

Mando Knight
2010-10-27, 11:07 PM
Right... those books...

Why didn't WotC do that at first? That would make things so much easier.

Because sometimes people get the idea that they know what's best, even if someone else brings up a better idea. They only came around to this like a year ago or so.

Lateral
2010-10-28, 02:04 PM
No, no, you don't understand. The elf, if I go with elf, will have +2 int, +2 dex. The githzerai would have +2 int, +2 wis-- more useful stats, but elf has a better racial.

Edit: If it doesn't matter then I'll go with Gith- the Elf racial is better, but... I like githzerai.

Kurald Galain
2010-10-28, 02:08 PM
No, no, you don't understand. The elf, if I go with elf, will have +2 int, +2 dex. The githzerai would have +2 int, +2 wis-- more useful stats, but elf has a better racial.
+2 dex or +2 wis doesn't matter all that much, considering you'll likely want a bit of both for your wizard.

For example,
Elf: 18+2 int, 11+2 dex, 14 wis
Gith: 18+2 int, 13 dex, 13+2 wis

So if you prefer the elf racial, I'd say pick the elf.