PDA

View Full Version : [3.5] Getting full plate ASF to 0



mikethepoor
2010-10-23, 04:34 PM
Hey guys, I could use some help with a two-class character I'm making. It's a wizard/archivist cross, so she has proficiency with medium armor. I'm trying to get her into mithral full plate and end up with 0% ASF. So far I have it down to 5% through a combo of mithral, twilight, feycraft, and thistledown padding, but is there anything other than spellsword or Still Spell that I can use for those last few points?

CockroachTeaParty
2010-10-23, 04:41 PM
5% ASF is livable, if you ask me. It's the same risk of failure a warrior has every time he swings his sword.

Eloel
2010-10-23, 04:43 PM
5% ASF is livable, if you ask me. It's the same risk of failure a warrior has every time he swings his sword.

It's less actually. A fighter can miss on other #s too

Greenish
2010-10-23, 04:45 PM
It's less actually. A fighter can miss on other #s tooYes, but 5% is the minimum, even if you were trying to hit the broad side of the barn.

BeholderSlayer
2010-10-23, 04:46 PM
If you can get the DM to allow the armor to be both Feycraft and Githcraft, you can do it (I think, without looking up either effect). The hurdle will be getting your DM to allow such a combination flavor-wise.

Aron Times
2010-10-23, 04:47 PM
Inb4stillspell.

mikethepoor
2010-10-23, 04:54 PM
If you can get the DM to allow the armor to be both Feycraft and Githcraft, you can do it (I think, without looking up either effect). The hurdle will be getting your DM to allow such a combination flavor-wise.

That could be pulled off by a githyanki dominated by some sort of fey creature. Good luck on me getting the DM to approve it, of course.

Greenish
2010-10-23, 04:55 PM
That could be pulled off by a githyanki dominated by some sort of fey creature. Good luck on me getting the DM to approve it, of course.Half-dryad githyanki? Half-dryads count as Fey for all effects. :smalltongue:

mikethepoor
2010-10-23, 05:00 PM
Half-dryad githyanki? Half-dryads count as Fey for all effects. :smalltongue:

That sounds awesome. Now to see if that makes sense in the DM's world (Dragonlance).

The Dark Fiddler
2010-10-23, 05:03 PM
Ask if your DM will let a feat like Battle Caster (Complete Arcane) give a % reduction instead of giving a category of no failure and nothing for the other categories. I always thought that was stupid, personally.

kryan
2010-10-23, 05:07 PM
5% ASF is livable, if you ask me. It's the same risk of failure a warrior has every time he swings his sword.
It's less actually. A fighter can miss on other #s too
Yes, but 5% is the minimum, even if you were trying to hit the broad side of the barn.
You're all ignoring the fact that a Fighter generally gets more than one swing per turn, and the fact that most spells also require a failed save and/or a successful touch attack. Comparing ASF to the missing on a natural-1 only really works for no-save, no-attack, just-suck spells.

For example, even if your save DCs are so good that someone will only pass on a 20 (rather hard to do, even for a Wizard, barring the extremes of theoretical optimization), you have a 9.975% chance of failing if you have a 5% ASF - almost double the minimum fail chance for a Fighter's attack.

This isn't to say that a caster with 5% ASF is totally gimped or that this would somehow balance out Fighters and Wizards, but still, the comparison here is not particularly valid.

mikethepoor
2010-10-23, 05:10 PM
You guys have all been a great help. Thanks a lot!

Darrin
2010-10-24, 07:04 AM
In Dragon #358, "Master's Forge" article p. 39, there's a "Caster's Armor" feature that can be added to an armor for 800 GP. This reduces ASF by 5%.

Gaiyamato
2010-10-24, 07:26 AM
Ignore me.

Hurr Durr.

Greenish
2010-10-24, 07:29 AM
All of you have forgotten one major point.

Archivist casts Divine spells and as such does not need to take Arcane Spell Failure Checks.

I went over the Heroes of Horror book but can find no reference that says otherwise.Or maybe we read the OP and realized he is also going to have wizard casting, which is Arcane and subject to Arcane Spell Failure Checks.

Gaiyamato
2010-10-24, 07:30 AM
Yeah ninja'd. I just realised and now feel like a tool.

kestrel404
2010-10-24, 07:33 AM
One level dip in Spellsword. Gets you a 10% reduction in ASF, and +1 caster level. If you've already got heavy armor proficiency (and assuming you've got martial weapon proficiency) you can probably get in without jumping through any hoops.

Gaiyamato
2010-10-24, 07:42 AM
I am certain there is a feat that gives full casting in heavy armor, or at least reduces it quite a bit. It requires the medium armor caster feat etc..

A 1 level dip into spellthief then take the Master Spellthief feat from Complete Scoundrel. It gives you no ACF in light armor. You lose 1 level of spell progression, but you still keep the same CL. Plus you add your wizard level to the spellthief to work out what levels of spells you can steal.

I just need to find that bloomin feat chain for ignoring ACF in heavier armors.
*flips through many many books*

EDIT: Found it: Battle Caster from Complete Arcane. Each time you take it, it let's you ignore the ACF from one level higher armor than you currently can, but only for the class(s) that you are able.

Combine this with the Spellthief->Master Spellthief and then Battle Caster x 2 then you can cast in ANY heavy armor with 0% ACF.

This is essentially trading a 1 level dip and 3 feats in exchange for some expensive armor and/or a 1 level dip in spellsword.

Ernir
2010-10-24, 09:00 AM
If it fits your concept, you might want to consider just casting Luminous Armor (BoED) or its greater version instead.

mikethepoor
2010-10-24, 10:09 AM
Sorry I didn't specify earlier, but the character's being built at ECL 10 (wiz3/arch3/theurge4 so far).


One level dip in Spellsword. Gets you a 10% reduction in ASF, and +1 caster level. If you've already got heavy armor proficiency (and assuming you've got martial weapon proficiency) you can probably get in without jumping through any hoops.

You'll notice I specifically said other than spellsword in the OP. That would require a 1-level dip in fighter as well, which cuts my wizard side by 1 level and my archivist side by 2 levels.


I am certain there is a feat that gives full casting in heavy armor, or at least reduces it quite a bit. It requires the medium armor caster feat etc..

A 1 level dip into spellthief then take the Master Spellthief feat from Complete Scoundrel. It gives you no ACF in light armor. You lose 1 level of spell progression, but you still keep the same CL. Plus you add your wizard level to the spellthief to work out what levels of spells you can steal.

I just need to find that bloomin feat chain for ignoring ACF in heavier armors.
*flips through many many books*

EDIT: Found it: Battle Caster from Complete Arcane. Each time you take it, it let's you ignore the ACF from one level higher armor than you currently can, but only for the class(s) that you are able.

Combine this with the Spellthief->Master Spellthief and then Battle Caster x 2 then you can cast in ANY heavy armor with 0% ACF.

This is essentially trading a 1 level dip and 3 feats in exchange for some expensive armor and/or a 1 level dip in spellsword.

I'm a little short of feats as it is, already taking Practiced Spellcaster on both sides, Maximize Spell, Arcane Thesis (orbchucker, though not nearly Cindy-level), and Able Learner (fits the concept). Not a bad idea though.


If it fits your concept, you might want to consider just casting Luminous Armor (BoED) or its greater version instead.

This is pretty good, I just need to keep an eye on the Strength damage.

Thrawn183
2010-10-24, 10:15 AM
There's a rod in the Magic Item Compendium that has 3 charges per day. You can use the charges to heal ability damage. I think one charge heals 4, two charges heal 6 and three charges heals 8 ability damage (when used at once, presumably in combat).

Don't forget Greater Luminous Armor when you become able to cast it.

mikethepoor
2010-10-24, 10:23 AM
There's a rod in the Magic Item Compendium that has 3 charges per day. You can use the charges to heal ability damage. I think one charge heals 4, two charges heal 6 and three charges heals 8 ability damage (when used at once, presumably in combat).

Don't forget Greater Luminous Armor when you become able to cast it.

I'd probably pick that item up, and at ECL 10 I'd (just barely) be able to learn it to start.

gbprime
2010-10-24, 10:34 AM
I have to second Caster Armor from Dragon 358. -5% ASF for 800gp (for medium armors).

Ernir
2010-10-24, 10:35 AM
The item is the Rod of Bodily Restoration, 3100 GP. A bargain.


Sorry I didn't specify earlier, but the character's being built at ECL 10 (wiz3/arch3/theurge4 so far).

It varies immensely from table to table how this is looked upon, but have you looked into the ways there are to get into Mystic Theurge before 7th level? Losing three levels on both sides is really, really harsh. =/

Accersitus
2010-10-24, 10:47 AM
Pathfinder has the feat Arcane Armor Training (requires Light Armor Proficiency
and caster level 3rd) Gives 10% less ASF.
(and also has the Arcane Armor Mastery(requires Arcane Armor Training, Medium
Armor Proficiency, caster level 7th) Gives an aditional 10% less ASF).

mikethepoor
2010-10-24, 11:04 AM
The item is the Rod of Bodily Restoration, 3100 GP. A bargain.

It varies immensely from table to table how this is looked upon, but have you looked into the ways there are to get into Mystic Theurge before 7th level? Losing three levels on both sides is really, really harsh. =/

It sucks I know, but having 4th-level spells on both sides is good enough for me. Practiced Spellcaster is helping me overcome the CL problem, and I have enough total spell slots that I'm not too worried about it (I did get an 18 INT to start, ideally trying to get it to 26 depending on the items the DM approves).

Godskook
2010-10-24, 11:11 AM
Um, *why* are you making a wizard/archivist, in terms of character concept?

mikethepoor
2010-10-24, 11:22 AM
Um, *why* are you making a wizard/archivist, in terms of character concept?

She grew up spending a lot of time at the library. Loved books of all kinds, especially those few concering arcane and divine lore. That's where she picked up her fascination with trying to be good at both. Not that this works well by crunch. I'm also actually not that good with writing flavor and backstory.

Hawk7915
2010-10-24, 11:39 AM
EDIT: Nevermind. I can't brain today; I have the dumb. Need to learn to read the OP closely...

Cogidubnus
2010-10-24, 01:15 PM
Twilight Mithral Feycraft? I think I've seen this done before.

Marnath
2010-10-24, 01:31 PM
Don't Archivists only have medium armor proficiency out of the gate anyhow?

....Mithral fullplate is medium armor. The breastplate you're talking about is light armor.

Hawk7915
2010-10-24, 02:14 PM
....Mithral fullplate is medium armor. The breastplate you're talking about is light armor.

Doh. I should have remembered that. The point that a Breastplate is easier to get down to ASF 0 without dipping Spellsword stands though.

Kobold-Bard
2010-10-24, 02:28 PM
Dunno how legit Arms & Armaments is, but it has the Arcane enchantment, that reduces ASF by 10%/enhancement bonus of the armour. So +1 Arcane Full plate with all the stuff the OP suggested reduces to <0% ASF.

The Dark Fiddler
2010-10-24, 02:30 PM
...reduces to <0% ASF.

Does that mean your have a 5% chance of your spell being extra powerful? Or of casting twice?

What exactly does a -5% ASF chance mean? :smalltongue:

Marnath
2010-10-24, 02:31 PM
Does that mean your have a 5% chance of your spell being extra powerful? Or of casting twice?

What exactly does a -5% ASF chance mean? :smalltongue:

Means you wasted money on one of those other 5% asf reducers. :smalltongue:

Kobold-Bard
2010-10-24, 02:32 PM
Does that mean your have a 5% chance of your spell being extra powerful? Or of casting twice?

What exactly does a -5% ASF chance mean? :smalltongue:

It means your spells are so uninhibited by the armour that it actually increases their DC by 5%.

Honest.

It totally doesn't round up to 0.
:smalltongue: