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View Full Version : Is this encounter too strong? [If any of my players read this, I end them.] [3.5]



Scarey Nerd
2010-10-24, 12:45 PM
OK, here's the thing:

The party will consist of:
A Human Rogue 5/Bard 1,
A Dwarf Fighter 2/Barbarian 3,
A Human Cleric 4/Fighter 1,
And an Elf Ranger 5.

The encounter is with an Ettin with 2 levels in Barbarian, equipped with a morningstar in each hand and hide armour.

They will have gone through a dungeon with numerous encounters with lesser goblinoids before reaching the Ettin.

Too harsh, or about right?

Marnath
2010-10-24, 12:51 PM
Its hard to say without some better idea of what these pc's can do, ranged attacks/spells/whatever.

*edit: 3.5 or 4?

Scarey Nerd
2010-10-24, 12:58 PM
Its hard to say without some better idea of what these pc's can do, ranged attacks/spells/whatever.

*edit: 3.5 or 4?

Edited title for edition, it's 3.5.

The Cleric is primarily melee with a mace, doesn't use spells very often apart from healing.
The Fighter/Barbarian has a Dwarven Waraxe, and is a tank.
The Rogue has daggers and is a sneak attack machine, doesn't actually use spells because she's a mute. (Don't ask.)
The Ranger is archery focused, shoots from a distance with a longbow.

lsfreak
2010-10-24, 01:02 PM
Its hard to say without some better idea of what these pc's can do, ranged attacks/spells/whatever.

*edit: 3.5 or 4?

Assuming 3.5e, it also depends on if you follow WBL. 2 levels of barbarian qualifies it for PC-level wealth, which I definitely would not recommend you use on this encounter.

It's going to have a raging attack bonus of +16 and damage of 2d6+8 damage, plus Power Attack to dump the excess +atk that he surely has over the PC's, and at least one other feat (more, if you refeat him). That's rather brutal for 5th level. If your PC's are primarily melee, it's going to at least be very rough.

EDIT: On the other hand, single enemies can go down very fast if your characters know how to dump on the damage. So take that into consideration too. If you expect the ettin to be around longer than 2 rounds, it's probably too rough, and even then expect at least 1 character to drop to below 0.

Marnath
2010-10-24, 01:05 PM
Hmm. This could be ugly. They may want to hang back and let the archer pincushion this bruiser. Is there somewhere close they can use terrain to play keep away? I don't think any of them have the hp to go toe to toe with the guy. That's what i get from the data you provided at least. I don't know how optimized etc. your players are.

awa
2010-10-24, 01:07 PM
also technically giving it pc levels means their stats are improved as well

Scarey Nerd
2010-10-24, 01:07 PM
Hmm. This could be ugly. They may want to hang back and let the archer pincushion this bruiser. Is there somewhere close they can use terrain to play keep away? I don't think any of them have the hp to go toe to toe with the guys. That's what i get from the data you provided at least. I don't know how optimized etc. your players are.

Very unoptimised. Let's leave it at that :smalleek:

There's going to be rock piles scattered around, possibly some longtables.

I'm thinking drop one, if not both class levels from this response?

awa
2010-10-24, 01:14 PM
ettins with barbarian levels also get the elite array if i recall correctly which means their attacks will almost always hit.

based on cr this is considered a very difficult fight (with just normal ettins) which is about right for a boss fight (i know cr is often screwy but this sounds about right)

2 barbarian ettins is considered overpowering which means they should run

Marnath
2010-10-24, 01:20 PM
I'm thinking drop one, if not both class levels from this response?

Umm yeah. It's tough enough for level 5 without levels. It doesn't need rage on top of 2d6+6 twice a round. Plus it has like 65 hp as a base creature, without the 2d12 barbarian hp. :smalleek:

Ernir
2010-10-24, 01:26 PM
With an only-attacking party vs. an only-attacking monster, it's just going to become a numbers game.

If you know the AC, HP, and attack bonuses of each individual in the party, you can calculate the average number of rounds the Ettin will need in order to drop any given number of PCs. Compare this with the average number of rounds the players will need to drop the ettin.

Scale accordingly.

lsfreak
2010-10-24, 01:30 PM
Umm yeah. It's tough enough for level 5 without levels. It doesn't need rage on top of 2d6+6 twice a round. Plus it has like 65 hp as a base creature, without the 2d12 barbarian hp. :smalleek:

Correction: 2d6+6 four times a round. Each morningstar gets the +12/+7 routine.

silvadel
2010-10-24, 01:31 PM
Nope -- I wouldn't call it too strong.

Either they are going to run, get a sense of achievement from killing it, or die.

If everything is always set up that there is no chance of failure, why play?

----

Note: as a GM I do not balance as much as some do -- it is a world. If the party isn't careful they can accidentally sign up for something way over their heads. They can't just take any adventure offered and figure they will have a fighting chance of defeating it. Take an adventure at random and you could end up with a cakewalk, or become an ingredient in cake.

Scarey Nerd
2010-10-24, 01:33 PM
Nope -- I wouldn't call it too strong.

Either they are going to run, get a sense of achievement from killing it, or die.

If everything is always set up that there is no chance of failure, why play?

----

Note: as a GM I do not balance as much as some do -- it is a world. If the party isn't careful they can accidentally sign up for something way over their heads. They can't just take any adventure offered and figure they will have a fighting chance of defeating it. Take an adventure at random and you could end up with a cakewalk, or become an ingredient in cake.

This is meant to be a challenging boss encounter, designed to give them a sense of satisfaction in their introduction to real adventuring. Running isn't really an option, so normal Ettin it is.

Marnath
2010-10-24, 01:33 PM
Correction: 2d6+6 four times a round. Each morningstar gets the +12/+7 routine.

I misunderstood their full attack line then. I thought it was, 2 morning stars 12/7, which is to say one arm gets the 12 and the other gets 7. Are you sure thats not what it means?

The Shadowmind
2010-10-24, 01:47 PM
The Superior Two-Weapon Fighting ability is what gives them +12/+7/+12/+7 attack.

Marnath
2010-10-24, 01:51 PM
Hmm, ok. I guess I never realized thats how it's supposed to work out.

awa
2010-10-24, 02:50 PM
each head controls its own weapon. they can really put out the attacks. with the barbarian levels (that technically give out decent equipment and the elite array) they would likely kill a pc roughly every round if they are allowed to full attack