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Sir Swindle89
2010-10-25, 07:53 AM
I was going through the Dragon Compendium and i ran across the Dvati race. They are +1LA and have 2 bodies but 1 soul. So when you play one you play a pair. It also specifically states both bodies have to concentrate to cast a spell. But it says nothing about attacking or sneak attacking.

So my question to you guys is how would you best optimize a character useing this race.

My first though is a double uber-charger.

Tyndmyr
2010-10-25, 07:58 AM
It all depends...do you have to share actions, as apparently it was originally intended(in play, this sees a lot of variation)?

Because without more actions, you don't really have any advantages over a single ubercharger. The only real advantage is extended range with aura-based classes, such as AoP. That route can be pretty scary, but otherwise, I can't see a lot of reason to use them.

With separate moves, then flanking with yourself is a viable tactic...but lack of hp is a problem. Ask your DM how improved toughness will work with them.

Sir Swindle89
2010-10-25, 08:03 AM
I always took it to be they have 2 seperate action sets, otherwise why would they specify they it takes both to cast a spell. Also they split a HP pool so toughness would just add to the total pool, presplit.

Those are the rulings for the purpose of this thread any way.

GodGoblin
2010-10-25, 08:04 AM
Ive always been interested with the race, I was thinking ninja would be a fun class. With double sudden strike and having 2 invisble forces running around would be fairly potent.

And we know being a caster would be sub optimal but I always thought a Mystic Thuerge type character would be fun RP wise.

Oh and just a thought, how would wild shape work?

Khatoblepas
2010-10-25, 08:14 AM
The Dvati have a set of actions per twin, as I read it, and with no official errata, that's how I'm going to keep reading it. :P

I'd say TWF Crusader/Cleric/Ruby Knight Vindicator or TWF Warblade/Wizard/Jade Phoenix Mage (A reincarnated soul in two bodies? Awesome).

Use Stormguard Warrior, and as the enemy will provoke two AoEs for each AoE they provoke...

Then, take Multivoice, and as you have TWF, it should be trivial to get the prerequisites. Now you can cast two spells in one go.

Alternatively, Blastificer. It takes both of you to cast a spell... but what about using UMD? I don't have my DC on me, so I can't check, but you could get twice the damage output on your wands with a Dvati.

Alternatively Alternatively, a Warlock might be good. Again, with Multivoice, that means twice the Eldritch Blast. Add in Eldritch Glaive, and... you have x2 EB damage. Watch out for getting hurt, though!

FMArthur
2010-10-25, 08:19 AM
Swordsage seems like the best option. They get it rather late but Evasion looks like a crucial component of playing a Dvati. Playing the unarmed variant will get them higher AC and attack damage without spending gold, which is likely to be a problem. Those are things the Monk can do and is better at in the case of gaining Evasion, Improved Evasion, and saving throws in general, but a Swordsage also has a big pile of maneuvers that both twins can execute separately, making it a very powerful offensive option.

GodGoblin
2010-10-25, 08:23 AM
Do manuevers not count under the one spell a round rule? I can see a lot DMs ruling that out sadly

Amphetryon
2010-10-25, 08:25 AM
How do Dvati interact with Soulmelds? Dvati Totemist could get sick attack routines pretty... routinely.

FMArthur
2010-10-25, 08:30 AM
Do manuevers not count under the one spell a round rule? I can see a lot DMs ruling that out sadly

Martial maneuvers are not spells by any interpretation of the rules. :smallconfused:

Khatoblepas
2010-10-25, 08:32 AM
Do manuevers not count under the one spell a round rule? I can see a lot DMs ruling that out sadly

Manuevers aren't spells. They don't have verbal, somatic, or material components, and aren't used by spellcasters. They don't have a "transparency" rule like Psionics. Besides, it makes no sense for some of the extraordinary manuevers.

"Mountain Hammer!"
"Yeah, I'll just.. stay over here thinking about Mountain Hammering that wall there."

GodGoblin
2010-10-25, 08:39 AM
Ah in that case not a problem then, just was unsure :smallsmile:

Sir Swindle89
2010-10-25, 09:43 AM
Martial maneuvers are not spells by any interpretation of the rules. :smallconfused:

I wouldn't say that, They are special abilities that it could be argued take up all of the dvati's focus like a spell would. Even though they sould simple i'm pretty sure all manuvers are supposed to be pretty intense applications of will or very complex actions. I could very easily see them getting rolled in.

dsmiles
2010-10-25, 09:50 AM
I can't believe I'm the first one to suggest:
A Transmuter (for one), and a Egoist (for the other).

Wonder Twin Powers ACTIVATE!

:smalltongue:

FMArthur
2010-10-25, 10:01 AM
That would just be two characters who are twins. Dvati share a single character build.

CockroachTeaParty
2010-10-25, 10:09 AM
One of the safer options is to optimize Inspire Courage, and just chill in the back as a buffer bard. Not very exciting, but at least you're making yourself useful, and you can do fun (safer) things in social encounters, etc.

dsmiles
2010-10-25, 10:13 AM
That would just be two characters who are twins. Dvati share a single character build.

Let me have my fun. :smallfrown:

kestrel404
2010-10-25, 12:49 PM
Try to get fast healing. It will counterbalance the lack of HP, and you'll effectively get double (since you'll be healing N HP/round on each body).

Wings of Peace
2010-10-25, 02:12 PM
Affinity Field + Synchronicity

Tokuhara
2010-10-25, 02:12 PM
Hmmmm....

Half-Toll Dvati Unarmed Swordsage/Shadow Sun Ninja?

Solves the low HP problem (fast healing, bonus to Con), lets you become a flanking machine, and heck, uses your size boost to your advantage. Make one twin use Setting Sun, the other Shadow Hand. Solves the want for two separate ability schemes.

My other option is to ask your DM to allow a pseudo-gestalt on the twins, so that one is the first class combo, the other is the other.

Like this:

Character Build- Totemist/Barbarian/Totem Rager//Rogue/Swashbuckler/Invisible Blade

Twin 1 uses the Totem Rager
Twin 2 uses the Invisible Blade

while yes, they share stats, they fight like two separate characters, yet work flawlessly in tandem. Totem Rager does a fair smackey-smackey while Invisible Blade flanks. Can you say "Dead Ogre?"

Prime32
2010-10-25, 02:17 PM
Ive always been interested with the race, I was thinking ninja would be a fun class. With double sudden strike and having 2 invisble forces running around would be fairly potent.Rogues work much better - you can't activate sudden strike by flanking.

The best use for dvati is Fiend of Possession, since they can possess two things at once and their low hp don't matter.

Dragonfire adept is also good.

Dvati: Okay, since I mentioned the Dragon Compendium . . . These guys are weird, and the rules that govern them ill-designed and ill-explained. That said, if your DM allows them, they're SICK AND TWISTED as a character race. Yep, you have to pay a +1 LA, 'tis true. For it, though, you get the ability to play a PAIR of characters - two twins that share the same soul. Why is this so groovy, you ask? Well, because it means that when you breathe, TWO MOUTHS do the breathing - DOUBLING your damage! Woot! If your DM lets you do this, go nuts. With Fivefold Breath, you'll end up doing TEN TIMES your total breath weapon damage, for a massive 90d6 of breath! They split one character's HP between them, which may make you nervous, but remember: Con is a DFA's strong stat. If I were to do this, I'd definitely go Dragonborn to up the Con a bit more. Wow . . . just THINKING about it makes me start to salivate . . .

arguskos
2010-10-25, 02:50 PM
I love the Dvati, but their issues are threefold:

1. The hp thing. This is pretty well handled.

2. Wealth. Yeah, no one thought about this yet. They're technically only one character, so many DMs will only include gear for one character, when there's two of them to deal with. This means you either split your gear between them and suffer for it, or one gets all the stuff and the other guy just deals. There is no mention of magical bonuses from gear carrying over between the twins, so it doesn't happen unless your DM is nice about it. This causes... issues.

3. The actions thing. This is their biggest hurdle. If the DM states they have one pool of actions that they have to split... play something else. It's cripplingly bad. If they're nice and let you have two turns, the race is brokenly powerful. Play a gish. Twin 1 fights, the other casts spells. Ta-da, and that's a light use of them. Play a Binder and laugh. Play a DFA or Warlock and lol all day long. I mean, there's lots of options if you get dual actions. Still, the sheer fact that this is even debatable means that there is a chance your DM will nerf you into the ground.

Advice? Ask your DM the second you even think about using the race. Don't make a character assuming answers to the above issues, only to find out you're gonna get shafted cause the DM thinks otherwise.

Now, let's say you've got dual wealth and dual action pools. My suggestion? Play something like a Binder/Anima Mage. Binder has lots of fun hilarious powers and Anima Mage wins at everything forever. Profit? Profit. :smallcool:

Prime32
2010-10-25, 03:54 PM
If they're nice and let you have two turns, the race is brokenly powerful. Play a gish. Twin 1 fights, the other casts spells. Ta-da, and that's a light use of them.Doesn't work. Casting a spell requires both twins to take an action.

arguskos
2010-10-25, 03:56 PM
Doesn't work. Casting a spell requires both twins to take an action.
The idea is that one aggros and then feeds the other actions. :smallwink:

Sir Swindle89
2010-10-25, 06:52 PM
The idea is that one aggros and then feeds the other actions. :smallwink:


Both twins must simultaneously take the actions required to cast a spell,

so that won't work how you think.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-10-25, 08:32 PM
One thing on the HP split: they only split the HP gained via HD, but both bodies gain the full HP from CON or other stats. For example, a Dvati Fighter with 3 CON would gain, on average 2.75+3 HP rather than (5.5+3)/2.

Dante & Vergil
2010-10-25, 09:50 PM
If you go gish, take swiftblade for more the extra standard action when haste is up, or use the powers that Wings of Peace suggested.:smallwink:

Temotei
2010-10-25, 09:54 PM
Anima Mage wins at everything forever.

Like people who drink Powerthirst? :smallbiggrin:

dsmiles
2010-10-26, 04:57 AM
I still think you should go Egoist or Transmuter and do the whole wonder twins thing. Just for gits and shiggles.