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grimbold
2010-10-26, 05:14 AM
So at my school there are NO D&D players :frown: or rpers of any sort again :frown: so i have taken it upon myself to figure out how to make some of them into rpers.
I do know that i have fertile ground as a lot of them play DDO, but i have difficulty luring them into 'real' D&D. I think some of them are interested its just a matter of getting them to want to learn to play. (It should be noted here that i am the only true nerd at my school)
Are there any simplified rule systems i can use to teach people D&D or pen and paper games in general? Are there any good ways to attract people to this game?

Leon
2010-10-26, 05:22 AM
Forcing people to do something is'nt the best way to get them interested in something. Try and find out if anyone would be intersted and work from there and people will devlope RPing skills on thier own if they like it

Yuki Akuma
2010-10-26, 05:25 AM
Forcing people into it is not the way to go.

Advertise it as a sort of tactical combat game. Or maybe advertise it as like a CRPG where they can do what they want. Don't stress the RPing - that tends to emerge on its own after a while, if the players are into it.

Just make sure you roleplay and some will follow suit.

FelixG
2010-10-26, 05:27 AM
Well i may recommend trying a different universe...If they are playing DDO they are already likely thinking "I already play DnD just on the computer, leave me alone!"

i know you can get Space D6 for free these days and its pretty much a rehash of the old Star Wars D6 system, so you could try that, convince them your going to run star wars, or serenity (Fire Fly), or star trek ect

Do something they cant do very easily on their computer, once they get into the swing of things THEN you can say "hey, lets try DnD for our next campaign!"

Yuki Akuma
2010-10-26, 05:28 AM
Well i may recommend trying a different universe...If they are playing DDO they are already likely thinking "I already play DnD just on the computer, leave me alone!"

i know you can get Space D6 for free these days and its pretty much a rehash of the old Star Wars D6 system, so you could try that, convince them your going to run star wars, or serenity (Fire Fly), or star trek ect

Do something they cant do very easily on their computer, once they get into the swing of things THEN you can say "hey, lets try DnD for our next campaign!"

DDO is pretty restrictive - it's mostly Xen'drik and that's it. Tell them in a proper D&D campaign, you could play on one of the other continents - or a different planet altogether.

Also, the race choices and class choices in DDO are a little restrictive - you can only play some of the PHB classes, plus Favoured Soul, for instance. Not even Artificers!

Aotrs Commander
2010-10-26, 06:29 AM
Forcing people into it is not the way to go.

I dunno, I find a rocket launcher is almost always the way to go to...pursuade...people to do anything, especially if backed up by the threat of orbital bombardment and spirit-binding their souls into a pebble and dropping it into deep space...

But I'm quite harsh...

oxybe
2010-10-26, 06:45 AM
ever met that guy who couldn't lie with a strait face? who couldn't tell a bedtime story without sounding contrived?

that's what forcing RP sounds like, except with a scottish accent.

forced RP will sound exactly like it says on the tin: forced, and won't really add to the game.

really the best way to do it, is to introduce you friends/family to the game and simply RP yourself and wait to see if anyone takes the bait.

grimbold
2010-10-26, 06:54 AM
I dunno, I find a rocket launcher is almost always the way to go to...pursuade...people to do anything, especially if backed up by the threat of orbital bombardment and spirit-binding their souls into a pebble and dropping it into deep space...

holy crap... remind me not to mess with Aotrs Commander.

Anyway i'm not forcing people to rp or play D&D im just trying to get them to try D&D, however star d6 might be a good introduction can someone link me to the rules?

Eldan
2010-10-26, 06:58 AM
forced RP will sound exactly like it says on the tin: forced, and won't really add to the game.

I don't think that's what the OP means. He doesn't say "How can I make these people roleplay a character", the way we sometimes see in threads complaining about munchkins that only want to hack&slay.

He is asking about good arguments for people to join him at the table. To do that, you don't have to force them to write a ten page backstory, then only let them speak in period-appropriate slang. You just have to make it look interesting.

Ask them how many times they have sat in front of a game and thought: "Wouldn't it be much more logical in this situation to do *this*?" Then explain to them that in D&D, you can do *this*, since they are not playing with a computer who can only do three pre-selected paths, but a human being, who can improvise. That is D&Ds great strength over a compter RPG.

What you do next depends a lot on what kind of people they are. If they want to start adventuring, but don't like reading rules a lot, start by dropping them in a location and let them take in the scenery and talk to NPCs a little. Let them give themselves names and a vague description, don't bother with sheets. If they want to learn the rules, perhaps get in a fight soon, help them make characters, simplify the rules a little, start an example combat with some description, but not too much.

grimbold
2010-10-26, 07:07 AM
thank you eldan your advice was exactly what i was looking for, i think i may want to try a basic rpg based off rock paper scissors that i invented with a friend

Eldan
2010-10-26, 07:14 AM
I wouldn't do that, really, if I were you. I mean, you want to get them to play D&D eventually, and I would do exactly that, if a little simplified.

There are a lot of different types out there, and they appreciate different things. If a player likes the complexity of building a character, or a complex combat simulation, he will be turned off by a simplified game, especially when it runs on something as "childish" as rock-paper-scissors.
For a simple game, take the D&D rules and simplify them a little, depending on what your friends like. If they like a more RP-focused, narrative game, ignore squares and a battlemat for now, just let them describe what they want to do, then tell them what dice to roll. If they like combat, introduce the battlemat, explain it's basics to them (i.e. what exactly a square means, how movement works, what an attack roll is), then gradually introduce more complex rules like grappling, tripping and so on.

AtwasAwamps
2010-10-26, 08:27 AM
I dunno, I find a rocket launcher is almost always the way to go to...pursuade...people to do anything, especially if backed up by the threat of orbital bombardment and spirit-binding their souls into a pebble and dropping it into deep space...

But I'm quite harsh...

That is like killing an ant with a hydrogen bomb.

Just light a few people on fire. The rest will get the message.

Dimers
2010-10-26, 09:07 AM
@OP: Lots of gamers play in order to spend time with friends, whether online or in person. I think making friends will be the most reliable tactic for getting people to your gaming table.

Lev
2010-10-26, 09:10 AM
I'd suggest not looking into your school as a good place for anything but getting the life skills needed for the future.

Go find people elsewhere.

Eldan
2010-10-26, 09:18 AM
I'd suggest not looking into your school as a good place for anything but getting the life skills needed for the future.

Go find people elsewhere.

I don't think so. People at my school got me successfully into:

D&D
Magic the Gathering
English literature (and by that I mean any books written in English. I didn't touch them until a friend convinced me. Foreign languages were strange, alien things I didn't understand. Actually, I should put "the English language" here, not literature).
Webcomics (I had never heard of them before)
Manga/Anime ("Why should I watch it? I don't like Pokémon or Dragonball.")
Warhammer Fantasy&40k

And just look at me now.

grimbold
2010-10-26, 09:52 AM
sadly the nerd population of my school is as i understand it 1. (aka me). Its the whole convincing people to sit down and play a game associated with 1000 page rulebooks that scares most people.
FYI; explaining that the rulebooks are a 'mere' 300ish pages each is not a good way to convince people to play.

FelixG
2010-10-26, 09:53 AM
sadly the nerd population of my school is as i understand it 1. (aka me). Its the whole convincing people to sit down and play a game associated with 1000 page rulebooks that scares most people.
FYI; explaining that the rulebooks are a 'mere' 300ish pages each is not a good way to convince people to play.

What you might try doing is finding out what they want to play then explain the core conepts with examples...

I would be intimidated as well if someone told me to read 300 pages of things then we could play XD

grimbold
2010-10-26, 10:04 AM
thank you for the idea felix
personally when i saw the size of the rulebook i was like w00t pointless things to memorize!!!

Eldan
2010-10-26, 10:06 AM
Honestly? Tell them they won't need the rulebook. Play without it.
Tell them what an attack roll, a damage roll and an armour class is, then let them play fighters for a short session. They won't really need the rest of the rules. As soon as the first guy says "I hit him really hard", explain what Power Attack is. As soon as someone says "I throw him over the edge", use Bull Rush.

Show
2010-10-26, 10:17 AM
It sounds like your problem is more getting people to play than keeping them playing. Just get a few friends together and ask them to play. Some will agree, if only for the socialization. Make sure you've got a good session planned, and they'll be hooked for life. Or at least they'll know what they're missing.

grimbold
2010-10-26, 11:04 AM
thank you for the suggestions i will definetly try these after school break, anyother ideas?

Aotrs Commander
2010-10-26, 11:32 AM
That is like killing an ant with a hydrogen bomb.

There is no kill like overkill.

There is no such thing as overkill.



I have corrupted quite a few people in my time. I generally start with HeroQuest, though, rather than D&D as an intro to roleplaying, because it's even easier with even less rules.

That said, if you keep everyone to about levels 1-3/4 ish, and load out any spellcasters with a fairly limited array of spells (and maybe even give them a print out of their spells), it's not too difficult. (Especially if you keep a rather more flexible hold on the rules to begin with.)

No, the hardest part is usually writing a good adventure to draw them in and give them a good feel for the game (as opposed to the rules).

(On my last attempt, I succeeded so admirably on my young cousins that my Uncle had to order HeroQuest in the UK to take it back with him to Austraila when he next came over, I'd made that much impact...!)

grimbold
2010-10-26, 12:47 PM
ok thanks for the ideas
so i understand i need to make a rules light adventure for them but what would a good premise be?

MightyTim
2010-10-26, 01:00 PM
Maybe I came a little late in on the conversation, but if you're trying to convince people to start playing D&D, I would suggest starting with something that they are familiar with. You mentioned DDO as being popular at your school and (though I've never played it) by definition, as a video game it's limited in what you can do. So use that as your starting block. Highlight what makes tabletop D&D better than DDO, specifically the completely open nature and potential. Video games are getting pretty open with what you're able to do, but anything you can do has to have been specifically programmed in as a possibility. D&D does not have that restriction.

In RPGs, you can do A or B, and usually there will be outcomes dependent on which action you chose, but all possible paths were still chosen in advance. With a good DM, the players can do literally anything and the consequences will follow naturally. What video game can compare to that?

monomer
2010-10-26, 01:40 PM
ok thanks for the ideas
so i understand i need to make a rules light adventure for them but what would a good premise be?

If you don't mind spending a little bit to get people started, D&D Essentials is basically a light version of 4e. There is also Castle Ravenloft which is a board game version of 4e and is played much quicker. Gabe at Penny-arcade gave both of these glowing reviews.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/2010/8/23/
http://www.penny-arcade.com/2010/9/13/

Either of these can be used to ween people into the full-on D&D universe, I imagine.

grimbold
2010-10-26, 02:45 PM
oo thank you
is there any rules light 3.5e?

MightyTim
2010-10-26, 03:18 PM
oo thank you
is there any rules light 3.5e?

It's called 4e :smalltongue:

Dr.Epic
2010-10-26, 03:37 PM
Are you trying to recruit people to a D&D club or your group of friends? Friends should be easy enough. Just ask them, tell them you'll provide food for the evening, it'll be very loose, less serious, and if they hate it you'll have a movie for backup. If you want to start a club, put up fliers and make it sound as impressive as possible.

Quietus
2010-10-26, 03:45 PM
Am I the only one that misread the title of this thread as "Making people into ropers"?

Creepy business..

Eldan
2010-10-26, 03:48 PM
That's Phylumism! or at least, I think it is. Might be Kingdomism.

Dr.Epic
2010-10-26, 03:50 PM
Am I the only one that misread the title of this thread as "Making people into ropers"?

Creepy business..

I almost read it as "Making people into rapiers". That'd be weird to do in a campaign.

Aron Times
2010-10-26, 04:07 PM
The might be more comfortable with 4e than 3.5, as DDO is quite different from actual 3.5 play.

AslanCross
2010-10-26, 06:51 PM
I often just lug around some of my books and read them during my free time. Some of my friends and/or students who see me stop and ask what they are. Most just nod and smile, while others have a look and try to see what it's like. Sometimes they express interest, sometimes they don't. You can't force people to be interested in something, because that will result in some pretty awful DM-player and party dynamics.

When my students start saying "Can you teach us how to play?", then I know I have some good potential players.

Aran Banks
2010-10-26, 07:01 PM
Honestly, print off a copy of "Hi/Lo Heroes" or "Super Console" off of Scribd. The first one is a fun superhero game (Beer & Pretzel) and the second is a Final Fantasy-emulating RPG (would be Beer & Pretzel, except the DM has to do a fair bit of work).

My recommendation would actually to use PhoneLobster's Horrific Game (http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=51695). It's something that you could honestly play during class after you've finished your schoolwork by just whipping out a few sheets of lined paper, writing the stat numbers down, and asking your players "All right, what do you want to be good at?"

DocRock
2010-10-26, 07:32 PM
I almost read it as "Making people into rapiers". That'd be weird to do in a campaign.

I read something else, entirely innappropriate something else actually. It had me looking at the thread going "Is this guy an idiot?"


I often just lug around some of my books and read them during my free time. Some of my friends and/or students who see me stop and ask what they are. Most just nod and smile, while others have a look and try to see what it's like. Sometimes they express interest, sometimes they don't. You can't force people to be interested in something, because that will result in some pretty awful DM-player and party dynamics.

When my students start saying "Can you teach us how to play?", then I know I have some good potential players.

I wish my old school was like yours. If some of my friends saw me playing D and D I'd have had my ass kicked. By everyone. It's almost the nerdiest social killing thing you can do in Australia.

Trundlebug
2010-10-26, 08:04 PM
Incoming TL;DR

First off, love gaming. If you are knowledgeable and passionate people ask questions.

For example get to know your DDO players and get involved in their discussions. Not to hijack the topic, really talk to them about DDO. Sooner or later someone will mention

"I wish I could do <insert whatever>."

"Ha. Awesome idea, reminds of when my buddy was totally desperate lit himself on fire and jumped off the cliff onto the dragon, detonating a bunch of blast globes after hogtying it's wings and they both plummeted to their death, thus saving an entire county. He was level 4! Ah yes we remember that character fondly!"

"... go on."

The rule of cool is paramount here. Being a good GM is also paramount. Don't overwhelm with rules and regulations, let those things come up on their own. But know those rules inside and out yourself. It doesn't matter what game you choose as long as you know it. You guys can change systems later when everyones in the loop.

Listen to what they talk about and remember tabletop gaming is whatever you want AKA they want. Very important. Right setting is key.

Have a nice home. Room. Meeting place. Whatever. Clean, welcoming and comfy with a non threatening atmosphere will do wonders for new gamers to relax and roleplay.

If they are online gamers, give them want they don't get. Don't focus on damage and optimization they have that, give them setting, beauty, loss and sadness. NPC's they like or dislike. Bring in music, video clips, buy a good map or make one.

Persistent worlds between campaigns are good here, let them hear of their own adventures 3rd hand.

Be laid back but passionate and above all, reasonable. When you like things, people that like you start to like those things.

Also, discretion. Tabletop gaming has a reputation. Unfortunately it can be deserved. Bunch of fat nerdgins giggling over dice. Try and avoid those people be healthy, there is no reason you have to be overly skinny/fat even as a nerd other than laziness. If you are that lazy, you are generally a bad gamer as well. Be a healthy, respectable human and you'd be amazed at how open people can be when talking about a taboo hobby.

Respect your players privacy. If they are a little uncomfortable about it, don't talk so loud in public etc. Incorporate gaming with a pre-game beer and wings or watch the hockey game or whatever they are into and if they have a girlfriend who disapproves, give her no reason to disapprove. This ties in with being a respectable human.

You are representing a whole genre of gaming, represent well. This translates into the gaming atmosphere. I've gotten full grown rig workers to play DnD. You would never think it of them if you saw them and they would prefer that. As a side effect, this can lead to very deep friendships.

Good luck, you are in a special place. Being the only gamer and seeding groups can be very rewarding.

AslanCross
2010-10-26, 08:12 PM
I wish my old school was like yours. If some of my friends saw me playing D and D I'd have had my ass kicked. By everyone. It's almost the nerdiest social killing thing you can do in Australia.

It's a cultural thing, I guess. In our culture, people are still called "nerds," but they're often treated as people smart enough to help the lazy people with their homework. People might find them annoying and gossip about them, but they aren't really harassed aggressively. At least in my experience. (The first school I taught at was also a science high school, so EVERYONE was technically a nerd.)

Callista
2010-10-26, 08:14 PM
It does help if you get people to write backstories. My general statement is, "Look, just tell me who your character is. You can write two sentences or you can write a ten-volume series. They just have to be more than a set of stats."

And then give out RP XP.

Encouraging creative thinking and unusual strategies also goes a long way. In a CPRG, everything you can do is defined by the system--how much damage your weapon does; what conversations you have; where you can go; what you can buy. In D&D, you're limited only to what you can think up and convince the DM would work. The more you reward that, the less people will be thinking in terms of mental menus (You see a KOBOLD. Attack (y/n)?) and more in terms of playing characters in a world as realistic as you can make it. Once they start asking why the kobold is attacking, you know they're on their way.

AslanCross
2010-10-26, 08:15 PM
It does help if you get people to write backstories. My general statement is, "Look, just tell me who your character is. You can write two sentences or you can write a ten-volume series. They just have to be more than a set of stats."

And then give out RP XP.

I think he's more concerned about getting people interested in playing at all.

Callista
2010-10-26, 08:17 PM
Game night. One day you play Monopoly, next day you bring out the D&D books.

Logalmier
2010-10-26, 08:29 PM
I almost read it as "Making people into rapiers". That'd be weird to do in a campaign.

Yea, I read the title as 'Making people into ropers.' Which is slightly different (although I have to say, probably easier.)

Lev
2010-10-26, 10:05 PM
I don't think so. People at my school got me successfully into:

D&D
Magic the Gathering
English literature (and by that I mean any books written in English. I didn't touch them until a friend convinced me. Foreign languages were strange, alien things I didn't understand. Actually, I should put "the English language" here, not literature).
Webcomics (I had never heard of them before)
Manga/Anime ("Why should I watch it? I don't like Pokémon or Dragonball.")
Warhammer Fantasy&40k

And just look at me now.
I mean, if you have maybe 1-3 grades in your peer group and a school of 1-2k students that's about 500 people you will get to know, maximum.

To break it down further, only a small percentage of those 500 are people you will enjoy activities with, let's say 20-30.

Furthermore, you will only actually relate on a personality level to half of those people, at best.

Even then, compare the odds and forced selection (those 10-30 people for activities) compared to not having to adhere to the school structure.

I know my friends in highschool varied, some were pretty swell guys, some I was friends with because I let myself settle for options I liked less.

I'm now 22 and the people I hang out with now are sages, healers, cultural musicians, dancers, fire performers and artists.

Point is: Trying to find a good balance of people who you feel you belong with deep down, and people who love you and that you love is HARD.

School is not a good selection for this.

Weasel of Doom
2010-10-26, 10:55 PM
This (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19905354/Lessons_from_DMing_with_my_GF?pg=1)
thread might give you some ideas on how to run a rules-light game of dnd for beginners.

The two main hooks that make p&p rpgs better than crpgs are flexibility and the social aspect, IMO.
Play up on how you're not constrained by the computers rules and can do basically whatever you can imagine as well as how you're not just staring at a computer screen.
Like Dr Epic said try and make it into a fun sort of party if they're already your friends.



I wish my old school was like yours. If some of my friends saw me playing D and D I'd have had my ass kicked. By everyone. It's almost the nerdiest social killing thing you can do in Australia.

Lauged when I read that, my school has at least 20 people in my year alone who play or have played d&d and groups regularly played in the library last year.

Dr.Epic
2010-10-26, 11:04 PM
I read something else, entirely innappropriate something else actually. It had me looking at the thread going "Is this guy an idiot?"

Hey, I bet I know what you thought (cause I actually thought it too). But less said about it the better unless we want this thread closed.

Eldan
2010-10-27, 01:21 AM
It's a cultural thing, I guess. In our culture, people are still called "nerds," but they're often treated as people smart enough to help the lazy people with their homework. People might find them annoying and gossip about them, but they aren't really harassed aggressively. At least in my experience. (The first school I taught at was also a science high school, so EVERYONE was technically a nerd.)

That's pretty good. The worst thing over here?
People don't know what nerds are. The language has no word for "nerd". With very few exceptions, no one has ever heard of D&D. If you explain the concept of "nerd", people nod, smile and think you are crazy, but then they will just politely walk away and never talk to you again.

Dark_Nohn
2010-10-27, 01:33 AM
Ask them how many times they have sat in front of a game and thought: "Wouldn't it be much more logical in this situation to do *this*?" Then explain to them that in D&D, you can do *this*, since they are not playing with a computer who can only do three pre-selected paths, but a human being, who can improvise. That is D&Ds great strength over a compter RPG.

This is fine until they figure out how to accuse you of railroading so you can let them do whatever they damnwell please.

If you're into the actuall rolE play aspect, then getting some drama geeks is where you want to go. If you want to find people who are obsessive optimizers, then find the people into engineering. If you want adventurers, then I'd think creative writing/fictional lit classes are where you should look for people. Note that I am referring to "Observe who seems the type" instead of some sort of "Advertise in the middle of class."

Unless you're playing 4e, the MMO players won't feel much inclination to join due to the way 4e plays by its role-defining classes (I'm not saying 3.5e is better, just has better character dynamics with the ability to multiclass, not having the need for people to be defined by their class role - Warrior types can very well be as much a heavy hitter as a tank, unlike in 4e. Though I hear 4e is put together better and has better party/utility balance)

grimbold
2010-10-27, 04:34 AM
thank you again for the suggestions, i am kind of drawing up a basic edition of 3.5 which is a combination of many rules light systems. I think i am going to focus primarily on role playing and let skills and such come up when players want them,
2 issues though
1. I need a good adventure idea to draw them in.
2. should i pregen characters 4 them?