[4e] Level 0.5

[Erom]

So I can't claim this was my idea - rather, it's just something that happened organically as I am trying to get a new campaign with newbies under way. But it seems pretty cool.

Basically, what happened was that we only had 2 hours to play, and the new players were slow making characters. Really slow. Like we got through:

1) Pick a class
2) Pick a race
3) Pick your attributes
4) Pick your skills
5) Pick your gear
6) Fill out all the math on the front side of the character sheet

and we did NOT get through:

7) Pick your starting powers
8) Pick your starting feats

So my players were pretty plucky for being new and having just sat through 2 hours of tedium and were really excited about their new characters, so I didn't have the heart to tell them that they were actually only like 75% of the way done.

But then it occured to me: why not start playing like this? Seriously. You get a bunch of powers just from race+class (The barbarian has her racial and that encounter power that gives her a free charge when she drops an enemy, the cleric has Healing Word and Channel Divinity (I'm AFB at the moment, so please forgive any inaccuracy in power names) and a racial, the only person who would really be screwed over is the sorcerer, who only has a dagger and a slingshot (the player thought the "sling" entry in the equipment list meant a slingshot and got excited (zelda style!), so I ran with it).

I plan on giving the sorcerer one of her at-will power choices. This isn't an extra power - she just gets to pick a power a little earlier than the other players, so that as a magic user she has a spell to cast. Then we're playing. I'm calling it "1/2 level characters" and everyone is actually surprisingly excited about it. The big advantage from the player perspective is that is spreads out some of the huge number of choices you have to make at first level (every level after 1st typically only features 1 to 3 character choices - level 1 features dozens) and gets them playing earlier. The big advantage from my perspective is that they'll have a chance to learn about a lot of the basics of combat before it gets too complicated with powers - the barbarian is going to have a pretty sound understanding of basic attacks and opportunity attacks by the time we're done, I would think! And that's just one example.

Anyway, I won't know till after next session how well this worked out, but I wanted to put it up here for comment+discussion because it was a very novel idea to me, and maybe other DM's starting with new players can benefit from it.

[Kurald Galain]

It seems to me your group may be better off finding a more rules-light system than D&D.

[dsmiles]

I remember, back in the day, there was an adventure set in Greyhawk specifically for 0-level characters. That was fun. If only I could find it again.

[Erom]

It seems to me your group may be better off finding a more rules-light system than D&D.

Yeah, the last couple of threads I've posted have all sort of indicated that, but I gave the players the choice of Essentials, regular 4e, or Gurps Light, and the players picked 4e (Well, I told them Essentials and 4e characters could play along side each other, but they all wanted to play something from the phb2 so none of them made essentials characters). I think it'll be fine once they get going, and I'm looking forward to the more gradual start to the campaign.

[Oracle_Hunter]

You should have just used the Character Builder. It's free for LV 1, and a license for your group only costs $10.

It removes "step 6" entirely and speeds everything else up tremendously.

[Sipex]

I'm not going to tell you your idea is bad, your players are excited and you seem excited so go for it.

Don't drag it out too long though, just the one session at most.

[Erom]

You should have just used the Character Builder. It's free for LV 1, and a license for your group only costs $10.

It removes "step 6" entirely and speeds everything else up tremendously.

And doesn't run on mac. Which all of my players have :/

Either way, the last group I put together (6 months ago maybe?) they complained that they didn't know what any of the numbers on their sheet meant because they didn't do it themselves, so I am trying to address that...

Believe me, I miss the character builder just being an assumed part of dnd like in my group two-ago. It makes things so much easier.

[Kurald Galain]

I gave the players the choice of Essentials, regular 4e, or Gurps Light, and the players picked 4e
To be fair, you did give them a choice between three rules-heavy systems. Perhaps if you asked them if they wanted D&D, Risus, or Descent, you would have gotten a different answer.

Anyway, Sipex is quite correct in that you all appear to be having fun and therefore you're doing it right. I would recommend not focusing on combat overly much, because it may get repetitive in this level-0.5 system (imho).

[Oracle_Hunter]

Either way, the last group I put together (6 months ago maybe?) they complained that they didn't know what any of the numbers on their sheet meant because they didn't do it themselves, so I am trying to address that...
Well, they could always read the rules in their free time :smalltongue:

But yeah, if your players are having fun, go with it.

[Erom]

To be fair, you did give them a choice between three rules-heavy systems. Perhaps if you asked them if they wanted D&D, Risus, or Descent, you would have gotten a different answer.

Good point. If Gurps Light is still "rules-heavy", I guess I've never really played a truly rules-light system. I thought I was offering them a lighter alternative with that!


Anyway, Sipex is quite correct in that you all appear to be having fun and therefore you're doing it right. I would recommend not focusing on combat overly much, because it may get repetitive in this level-0.5 system (imho).

Yeah, I was thinking they'll "level" out of fractional levels and on to lvl1 as quickly as possible. Tentative plan:

After 1 session: Pick an at-will, an encounter, and a feat (sorcerer gets this at-will at the start of the session instead of the end)
After 2 sessions: Pick an at-will and a daily to bring characters up to level 1

Leveling proceeds normally from there.

[dsmiles]

Believe me, I miss the character builder just being an assumed part of dnd like in my group two-ago. It makes things so much easier.

You'd probably hate my group, then.

[Ealstan]

Personally I feel like the Character Builder has been more hindrance than help for 4e. WotC's mandate that everything be added to the character builder has greatly hindered the creativity their design team can have with new ideas, as there are many ideas that would be very unwieldy if you tried to implement them into a computer program like CB. In addition, WotC falls further and further behind in updating CB, creating a lot of frustration for people in my group that rely on it to create characters.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Personally I feel like the Character Builder has been more hindrance than help for 4e. WotC's mandate that everything be added to the character builder has greatly hindered the creativity their design team can have with new ideas, as there are many ideas that would be very unwieldy if you tried to implement them into a computer program like CB. In addition, WotC falls further and further behind in updating CB, creating a lot of frustration for people in my group that rely on it to create characters.
OTOH, the Character Builder allows for the seemless application of patches to D&D4 - providing a (generally) better experience all around.

Yeah, it's not perfect, but it is a major strength of D&D4 in the contemporary RPG market.

[Kylarra]

How far back is the CB anyway? I don't have D&DI as my group is taking a break from 4e, so I wouldn't know.

[Erom]

How far back is the CB anyway? I don't have D&DI as my group is taking a break from 4e, so I wouldn't know.
It has everything up to essentials, but no essentials content yet (there was something of an uproar when they canceled September's update, since it was supposed to be the first one with essentials content - they probably had to delay it because essentials changes a lot and many things needed to be re-coded to be more general).

Edit: October's update is probably out by now, actually, but I haven't got it yet.

[Tengu_temp]

Personally I'd never do anything like this, since for me 4e is too boring below level, let's say 7 - you run out of encounter powers too quickly and are forced to plink with at-wills for most of the time, which is not fun. If you're playing with complete newbies, though... I'd probably still not do it. I think that simplifying the game for a newbie is making him a disfavour - it's treating the newbie like an idiot who can't grasp the full rules of the game, keeps him from experiencing parts of the game he might like, and makes him feel stupid when he plays with another group and realizes they use full rules.

So yeah, generally against.

[kyoryu]

And doesn't run on mac. Which all of my players have :/

Do you have a PC? Even if you have to use one PC, that might be faster than doing it all by paper.

Also, you could do a one-shot with pre-gen characters to familiarize people with the rules, which would probably speed up creation later.


Personally I'd never do anything like this, since for me 4e is too boring below level, let's say 7 - you run out of encounter powers too quickly and are forced to plink with at-wills for most of the time, which is not fun.

I'm not sure a .5 level is necessary, either, but I don't really see how a 1st-level character (for instance) in 4e has fewer options than one in 3.5. Even looking at wizards, a 4e wizard has an encounter, a daily, and two (or more) at-wills, plus cantrips. With 18 int, a 3.5 wizard would have 2 level ones and cantrips, and then they're down to item use.

[Tengu_temp]

I'm not sure a .5 level is necessary, either, but I don't really see how a 1st-level character (for instance) in 4e has fewer options than one in 3.5. Even looking at wizards, a 4e wizard has an encounter, a daily, and two (or more) at-wills, plus cantrips. With 18 int, a 3.5 wizard would have 2 level ones and cantrips, and then they're down to item use.

And guess what is my stance on non-casters, non-ToB classes in 3.5?
If you guessed "boring to play", you win the prize!

[Katana_Geldar]

You guys should totally play Star Wars Saga, as that's pretty much what you just did!

[BlckDv]

It has everything up to essentials, but no essentials content yet (there was something of an uproar when they canceled September's update, since it was supposed to be the first one with essentials content - they probably had to delay it because essentials changes a lot and many things needed to be re-coded to be more general).

Edit: October's update is probably out by now, actually, but I haven't got it yet.

October's update is out; but it only added Psionic Power and magazines published through August.

None of the Dark Sun material, the Rules Compendium Errata, or the Essentials books are included yet.

Vague statements that the delay has been caused by work on "web based tools" (may or may not be intended to replace CB) and that there will be a November update (but not if it will include anything other than magazine updates) have been made through official channels and passed on to the DDI forums.

[Katana_Geldar]

I very much doubt that Essentials will even make it to CB.

[gurban]

Too late now, but i like to make characters individually with my players before session 1. I advised them about roles(defender, leader etc) and the 4e focus of teamwork and balance, and then let them at it. I think they liked developing their characters as an individual in the world that they could bring to the game.