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Dragannia
2010-10-26, 03:47 PM
Just a quick question, but does anyone know any ability that lets you change the school of one spell to another?

gbprime
2010-10-26, 03:54 PM
Just a quick question, but does anyone know any ability that lets you change the school of one spell to another?

If we did, Abjurant Champion would be even more awesome. :smallamused:

senrath
2010-10-26, 03:55 PM
Outside of DM fiat, I'm pretty sure there isn't any way.

Bayar
2010-10-26, 04:00 PM
Just a quick question, but does anyone know any ability that lets you change the school of one spell to another?

You could talk to your DM about researching a simmilar spell that uses a different school, although this is highly up to your DM and in no ways RAW.

holywhippet
2010-10-26, 04:07 PM
Arguably shadow evocation will make any suitable spell into an illusion school spell.

I'm a bit curious about shadow evocation though - does that mean you can duplicate any spell from the wizard/sorcerer spell list that is level 4 or lower even if you don't know it and it's not on your spell list (shadow evocation can be cast by bards).

zagan
2010-10-26, 04:07 PM
There is one limited option, the transmuters variant from Unearthed arcana gain at five level this ability:


Spell Versatility (Ex):
A 5th-level transmuter using this variant can adapt magic of other schools to his own style of spellcasting. For every five class levels that the transmuter gains, he can select one spell of any spell level that he has access to and treat it as if it were a transmutation spell. This means, for example, that the specialist can learn the spell normally and even prepare it as a bonus spell from the transmutation school. This spell can even be from a school that he has chosen as a prohibited school. Once a spell is chosen to be affected by this ability, it cannot be changed.

For example, a transmutation specialist using this variant has selected abjuration and necromancy as his prohibited schools. At 5th level, he gains access to 3rd-level spells. He chooses dispel magic and forever after treats dispel magic as if were a transmutation spell.

A transmuter using this variant does not gain bonus feats for advancing as a wizard.

But it only allow you to change the school to transmutation.

herrhauptmann
2010-10-26, 04:15 PM
You'd have to go through the entire spell research process for that. Which of course, requires the DM's to say "That's a balanced spell" at the end of the day.

Which spell are you wanting to change/create?

My choices for alteration are mage armor to abjuration. Or just alter G. Luminous armor. (lose the strength damage, in exchange give up the brightness effect)

Tyndmyr
2010-10-26, 04:28 PM
There is one limited option, the transmuters variant from Unearthed arcana gain at five level this ability:



But it only allow you to change the school to transmutation.

So, thanks to the wonders of scrolls and learning spells off them, would this not possibly make all spells also available as transmutation, if enough transmuter variants exist?

Also, I wonder about the divine to arcane potential of alternative source spell. What school does a spell end up being if used in such a way?

Barlen
2010-10-26, 05:50 PM
Spell research is discussed in the dmg, p198. Basically its 1000g/week and 1 week per spell level assuming appropriate facilities. At the end its a dc 10+spell level spellcraft check. Pgs 33-34 have additional info including spell damage progression tables.

Assuming the DM is ok with changing the school of the spell then it should be that easy. The spell description is already written, your just changing one aspect. The DM might increase the DC because your changing the school, but thats up to their discretion.

As already stated Mage Armor/Greater M.A. changing to abjuration for the Abjurant Champion is common request.

Yuki Akuma
2010-10-26, 06:49 PM
Also, I wonder about the divine to arcane potential of alternative source spell. What school does a spell end up being if used in such a way?

The... same school as before?

:smallconfused:

Dimers
2010-10-26, 07:42 PM
Arguably shadow evocation will make any suitable spell into an illusion school spell.

Likewise for miracle, wish and so on.

Tyndmyr
2010-10-26, 07:45 PM
The... same school as before?

:smallconfused:

For some reason, I was under the impression that some divine spells lacked a school. Now, I can't seem to find an example. Perhaps this is just a result of reading too many third party sourcebooks.

Yuki Akuma
2010-10-26, 07:48 PM
For some reason, I was under the impression that some divine spells lacked a school. Now, I can't seem to find an example. Perhaps this is just a result of reading too many third party sourcebooks.

All spells have a school - even if that school is "Universal".

Marnath
2010-10-26, 09:08 PM
For some reason, I was under the impression that some divine spells lacked a school. Now, I can't seem to find an example. Perhaps this is just a result of reading too many third party sourcebooks.

Maybe you just don't normally think about it, because clerics don't specialize in schools? I know that was my problem for a while.

Tyndmyr
2010-10-26, 09:13 PM
That could also be it. Typically, the school it's in is irrelevant to divine casters, barring CL boosts or the like to specific ones.

blackjack217
2010-10-26, 09:13 PM
So, thanks to the wonders of scrolls and learning spells off them, would this not possibly make all spells also available as transmutation, if enough transmuter variants exist?

Also, I wonder about the divine to arcane potential of alternative source spell. What school does a spell end up being if used in such a way?

But then every duskblade would get harm

Foryn Gilnith
2010-10-26, 09:17 PM
Typically, the school it's in is irrelevant to divine casters, barring CL boosts or the like to specific ones.

I have far too often needed to know the schools of divine spells. It's annoying that they're unsorted. Having spell searches like http://imarvintpa.com/dndLive/FindSpell.php helps somewhat, but 'twas still irksome.

gbprime
2010-10-26, 09:49 PM
I have far too often needed to know the schools of divine spells.

Improved Counterspell, anyone?

Hawriel
2010-10-26, 10:53 PM
Nothing but DM aproval. Alot of spells got messed up when WOTC took over. Healing is now conjuring instead of necromancy or example. Alot of spells used to belong to two or three schools. It can make sence for other schools to have similar spells.

Look at ray of enfeblement. It is a strength debuff. It is a necromancey spell but the strength buff spell bull's strengh is transmutation. doesnt really make sence does it.

The thing about playing a wizard in D&D is that you can make your own spells. Just ask your DM to aprove a new spell. He might ask for a justifacation or a change or two to make it fit.

Dragannia
2010-10-27, 02:17 AM
You'd have to go through the entire spell research process for that. Which of course, requires the DM's to say "That's a balanced spell" at the end of the day.

Which spell are you wanting to change/create?

My choices for alteration are mage armor to abjuration. Or just alter G. Luminous armor. (lose the strength damage, in exchange give up the brightness effect)

Mage armour, yeah. That is what I'm interested in. I could ask the DM but I thought there might be a RAW way of changing it first.

I don't get why Mage Armour is conjuration and Shield isn't, though.

Godskook
2010-10-27, 02:44 AM
Use Greater Luminous Armor instead of Mage Armor. For the low cost of a 3100gp, you can cast GLA 3/day without fear of penalties, by buying a rod of bodily restoration out of the MiC.

And compare the results!:

GLA:
+8 AC -or-
+12 AC against melee(effectively)
Synergy with Abjurant Champion

Greater Mage Armor:
+6 AC

Jack Zander
2010-10-27, 08:09 AM
So, thanks to the wonders of scrolls and learning spells off them, would this not possibly make all spells also available as transmutation, if enough transmuter variants exist?

My next character is totally going to be a transmuter with this variant, who takes leadership and trains a cohort with the same variant, but who has selected different spells. As often as possible I will ditch my cohort and train another one with different spells selected.

Birstel
2010-10-27, 08:40 AM
For my game I made the Orb spells Evocation, I figured conjuration had enough cool stuff as it was.

Dragannia
2010-10-28, 06:25 AM
Use Greater Luminous Armor instead of Mage Armor. For the low cost of a 3100gp, you can cast GLA 3/day without fear of penalties, by buying a rod of bodily restoration out of the MiC.

And compare the results!:

GLA:
+8 AC -or-
+12 AC against melee(effectively)
Synergy with Abjurant Champion

Greater Mage Armor:
+6 AC
Yeah I know, but it's sanctified XD

Can evil/neutrals even use sanctified?