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Drakevarg
2010-10-27, 12:44 AM
So, I just finished building my character for my cousin's DnD campaign, and realized that this is a Level 3 character capable of hitting up to 120 damage with a single attack.

The combo is pretty simple:

Orc Barbarian 2/Wizard 1.
Base Strength 18 + 4 Orc Racial Bonus = 22 STR (+6 Bonus)
Rage = 26 STR (+8 Bonus)
Enlarge Person = 28 STR (+9 Bonus)
Fist of Stone = 34 STR (+12 Bonus)

Weapon:
Scythe, 2d4 Dmg, Crit x4.
Enlarge Person = Dire Pick, 2d6 Dmg, Crit x4
STR Bonus = +18 Dmg +13 Dmg (Two-Handing)
Power Attack = +4 Dmg
Magic Weapon = +1 Dmg

So, on a Maxed Crit:
48 Weapon Damage, +76 STR Dmg +48 STR DMG +16 Power Attack +4 Magic Weapon = 120 Dmg

So, similar challenge for the rest of you: Infinite loop cheese aside, whats the most damage you can pull off with a melee attack by Level 3?

[Note]: On the downside, my character is basically autistic because my dice hate me. :smallsigh:

[Edit]: So, no damage bonus with fist of stone. Modified accordingly.

herrhauptmann
2010-10-27, 12:54 AM
Same basic idea, but mercurial greatsword.
12x4 weap + 72 (str) +16 PA = 136 damage.
edit:
Sorry, had to do it.

DementedFellow
2010-10-27, 12:54 AM
While it is fun to think about potential damage caps, keep in mind that you said so yourself it is a maxed crit, so even catching a crit, you won't come close to that damage in actual play unless you are extremely fortunate.

Also keep in mind that several creature types are immune to criticals.

That being said, you have a nice set-up. But how did you get by with an illiterate character who has to read a spell book in order to cast spells? Did you remember to purchase the language with skill points?

Edit: fixed a typo.

Godless_Paladin
2010-10-27, 12:54 AM
So, I just finished building my character for my cousin's DnD campaign, and realized that this is a Level 3 character capable of hitting up to 120 damage with a single attack.

The combo is pretty simple:

Orc Barbarian 2/Wizard 1.
Base Strength 18 + 4 Orc Racial Bonus = 22 STR (+6 Bonus)
Rage = 26 STR (+8 Bonus)
Enlarge Person = 28 STR (+9 Bonus)
Fist of Stone = 34 STR (+12 Bonus)

Weapon:
Dire Pick, 1d8 Dmg, Crit x4.
STR Bonus = +18 Dmg (Two-Handing)
Power Attack = +4 Dmg

So, on a Maxed Crit:
32 Weapon Damage, +72 STR Dmg +16 Power Attack = 120 Dmg

So, similar challenge for the rest of you: Infinite loop cheese aside, whats the most damage you can pull off with a melee attack by Level 3?

[Note]: On the downside, my character is basically autistic because my dice hate me. :smallsigh:

Pun Pun isn't an infinite loop, it's just unlimited. :smallwink:

That said, 120 doesn't seem too bad for a x4 crit with max damage rolls, penalties to hit, and time to buff. I remember way back when I was a newbie playing my first Paladin, not really trying to optimize at all, I easily exceeded 100 damage on a smite at about level 5 as a plain ol' human without any time to buff and with pretty average rolls, no crits or anything required. All it took was the Charging Smite variant, a decent strength, the Rhino Charge level 1 swift action spell, some random selection of feats.

The Rabbler
2010-10-27, 12:55 AM
well, assuming perfect rolls, any character with the lightning maces feat would provoke infinite damage. Not particularly cheesy, but you're assuming everything goes your way.


That being said, you have a nice set-up. But how did you get by with a illiterate character who has to read a spell book in order to cast spells? Did you remember to purchase the language with skill points?

doesn't illiteracy go away when you multiclass into a class that is literate?

arguskos
2010-10-27, 12:56 AM
A-ha! You did the same thing I did. Fist of Stone doesn't give you damage bonuses. :smallcool:

Go read it again in the Spell Compendium. The full description says the +6 str only works for attack rolls, grapple checks, and breaking/crushing items (odd but fine, I guess?).

herrhauptmann
2010-10-27, 12:56 AM
That being said, you have a nice set-up. But how did you get by with a illiterate character who has to read a spell book in order to cast spells? Did you remember to purchase the language with skill points?
Pretty sure it says that if you multiclass you miraculously gain the ability to read. Unless full orcs are as illiterate as neanderthals (but even neanderthal wizards can read, they're the only ones)

DementedFellow
2010-10-27, 12:58 AM
Pretty sure it says that if you multiclass you miraculously gain the ability to read. Unless full orcs are as illiterate as neanderthals (but even neanderthal wizards can read, they're the only ones)

Ah so it does. My mistake. Carry on. :)

Thurbane
2010-10-27, 12:58 AM
It does indeed. From a number of recent threads, I think a lot of people overlook that. I think it was different in 3.0...

Drakevarg
2010-10-27, 12:58 AM
While it is fun to think about potential damage caps, keep in mind that you said so yourself it is a maxed crit, so even catching a crit, you won't come close to that damage in actual play unless you are extremely fortunate.

Minimum damage on a crit is still 92. :smallbiggrin:


Also keep in mind that several creature types are immune to criticals.

I still hit at least 23 with any given attack with this setup, so it's cool.


That being said, you have a nice set-up. But how did you get by with a illiterate character who has to read a spell book in order to cast spells? Did you remember to purchase the language with skill points?

Oh, right. I always forget about the illiteracy thing. Eh, two skill points. Just takes his jump and climb down a notch (it's not like he's bad at it, given his balls-to-the-wall STR).


Pretty sure it says that if you multiclass you miraculously gain the ability to read. Unless full orcs are as illiterate as neanderthals (but even neanderthal wizards can read, they're the only ones)

Well, that's convienient. Nevermind then.


A-ha! You did the same thing I did. Fist of Stone doesn't give you damage bonuses. :smallcool:

Go read it again in the Spell Compendium. The full description says the +6 str only works for attack rolls, grapple checks, and breaking/crushing items (odd but fine, I guess?).

Well, that's stupid. I'm sooper strong so I can hit more often, but not harder? With a fist made out of rock?

What if I conviced my DM I was breaking/crushing faces?


Same basic idea, but mercurial greatsword.
12x4 weap + 72 (str) +16 PA = 136 damage.
edit:
Sorry, had to do it.

Sadly, I don't have one of those. *Points to book list in sig.*

On the other hand, my cousin (i.e., the DM) does have the Arms and Equipment Guide. I could swap out my greataxe for one when I get there. (I have a Masterwork Silver Greataxe, Masterwork Silver Warmace, and Masterwork Dire Pick all to overcome DR.)

Diarmuid
2010-10-27, 01:01 AM
Yes, assuming a nat 20, followed up by a crit confirm with all maxxed dmg rolls that seems to work numerically.

But, then you're pretty much spent for any further encounters as you're pretty much out of spells and cant rage again until the following day.

You're also assuming 2 rounds of preparation for the Enlarge Person and the Fist of Stone.

Seems like a lot of assumptions to realize your maximum potential. You're much more likely to be dealing 1d8+16 for normal attacks in a round where you're not able to cast all of your spells but are still raging and power attacking for 2. Granted, thats still probably more than sufficient for most ECL3 encounters.

arguskos
2010-10-27, 01:02 AM
Well, that's stupid. I'm sooper strong so I can hit more often, but not harder? With a fist made out of rock?

What if I conviced my DM I was breaking/crushing faces?
Faces aren't items, they're parts of people. People=/=items.

Look, it's a nice trick, but it doesn't work using Fist of Stone. Just remove the damage bonus. You're still dealing plenty enough to kill nigh-anything you crit on, so it's not like that's an issue really.

Godless_Paladin
2010-10-27, 01:02 AM
What does he do for the second encounter of the day?

Pfft, odds are he didn't even crit the first one. And he needed those extra rounds to buff, too.

Mikka
2010-10-27, 01:14 AM
My level 5 wizard can kill almost any level 20 character.

Just cast hold person and have them roll natural 1, fail their save and coup de grace them.


What exactly is your point? :smallconfused:

Drakevarg
2010-10-27, 01:19 AM
Pfft, odds are he didn't even crit the first one. And he needed those extra rounds to buff, too.

Eh. With buffs, minimum damage is 16. Without, 14.

Without buffs, max hit is 84. Minimum damage on crit, still 56.


What exactly is your point? :smallconfused:

My point is I'm having fun with this thought experiment, so quit being a party pooper. :smallannoyed:

Godless_Paladin
2010-10-27, 01:23 AM
Aha. Well, I can do 120 damage easy with a level 1 character. Just make a fat orc, maybe make him Enlarge Person himself, have him use Benign Transposition with his familiar, then have him fall on someone.

And all you need is a good damage roll, no crit or anything.

Drakevarg
2010-10-27, 01:24 AM
Aha. Well, I can do more than 120 damage with a level 1 character. See: The fat jumper.

/thread.

The what? Show ze math.


Aha. Well, I can do 120 damage easy with a level 1 character. Just make a fat orc, maybe make him Enlarge Person himself, have him use Benign Transposition with his familiar, then have him fall on someone.

And all you need is a good damage roll, no crit or anything.

Where's Benign Transposition from? :smallconfused:

Godless_Paladin
2010-10-27, 01:26 AM
The what? Show ze math.

You can get your weight up to something like 5000 pounds (or more, you could use flaws like Obese to get it up higher) and then just fall on someone from a small height for 20d6 damage.

Really, it's completely trivial. I have no idea why you think it's hard to get 120 damage with favorable rolls. :smallconfused:


Where's Benign Transposition from? :smallconfused:

Benign Transposition is a Spell Compendium feature that just changes your location with a willing target. It's a level 1 spell. Handy for changing position with a flying familiar or something.

If you don't want to do that, you could just, you know, Jump on somebody.

jpreem
2010-10-27, 01:29 AM
Cast true strike next round power attack for additional 40 damage. (160 on crit)

Godless_Paladin
2010-10-27, 01:30 AM
Cast true strike next round power attack for additional 40 damage. (160 on crit)

:smallsigh:

Power Attack doesn't actually work that way.

Drakevarg
2010-10-27, 01:31 AM
Really, it's completely trivial. I have no idea why you think it's hard to get 120 damage with favorable rolls. :smallconfused:

I don't know why you hate me being proud of it so much.

There's a reason I said melee attack. There's 80 bajillion ways to get that with magic attacks. And obviously dropping something from orbit will get you crazy ammounts of damage. It's another matter entirely to be able to red mist someone with a pickaxe at low levels.


Cast true strike next round power attack for additional 40 damage. (160 on crit)

True Strike gives a +20 Attack Bonus. Power Attack only lets you spend your Base Attack Bonus.

Godless_Paladin
2010-10-27, 01:33 AM
There's a reason I said melee attack.

Aha. So like the Dice Bag Duskblade.

Drakevarg
2010-10-27, 01:35 AM
Assuming a bit, there. I don't appreciate having my feelings misrepresented.

And I don't appreciate having my efforts dismissed as trivial. Not everyone is an experienced minmaxer with an encyclopedic knowledge of every 3.5 book ever written. :smallannoyed:


Aha. So like the Dice Bag Duskblade.

And I suppose by the time I finish typing this that remark will be replaced by an explaination.

Godless_Paladin
2010-10-27, 01:36 AM
And I don't appreciate having my efforts dismissed as trivial. Fair enough. I suppose that could have been a bit harsh.


And I suppose by the time I finish typing this that remark will be replaced by an explaination.

Sorry, I have a bad habit of typing quick answers, hitting the send button, then editing in elaborations.

It's because I'm accustomed to things like google Wave where that's totally what you're supposed to do.

JaronK
2010-10-27, 01:36 AM
Orc Warblade 1 with Blood in the Water, TWF, and a pair of Kukris. Get lucky with a bunch of attacks and you can build up your to hit and damage arbitrarily high (as long as you score at least one critical hit per minute). You have ten rounds per minute, so 20 attacks per minute, with an average of 3 of those critically hitting (assuming a very easy to hit target), so if you hack up something that isn't much of a threat to you (a bunch of rats or something) for one hour you should have +180 to hit and damage with every attack. And you get two attacks per turn.

Does that qualify?

JaronK

Drakevarg
2010-10-27, 01:38 AM
Orc Warblade 1 with Blood in the Water, TWF, and a pair of Kukris. Get lucky with a bunch of attacks and you can build up your to hit and damage arbitrarily high (as long as you score at least one critical hit per minute). You have ten rounds per minute, so 20 attacks per minute, with an average of 3 of those critically hitting (assuming a very easy to hit target), so if you hack up something that isn't much of a threat to you (a bunch of rats or something) for one hour you should have +180 to hit and damage with every attack. And you get two attacks per turn.

Does that qualify?

JaronK

That's edging on loop cheese.

Godless_Paladin
2010-10-27, 01:42 AM
Orc Warblade 1 with Blood in the Water, TWF, and a pair of Kukris. Get lucky with a bunch of attacks and you can build up your to hit and damage arbitrarily high (as long as you score at least one critical hit per minute). You have ten rounds per minute, so 20 attacks per minute, with an average of 3 of those critically hitting (assuming a very easy to hit target), so if you hack up something that isn't much of a threat to you (a bunch of rats or something) for one hour you should have +180 to hit and damage with every attack. And you get two attacks per turn.

Does that qualify?

JaronK

Heh, you know, I considered that, but it seemed like the kind of "boundless stacking" thing that was inferred by no infinite cheese, even if it's not actually infinite.

Godskook
2010-10-27, 01:46 AM
That's edging on loop cheese.

It *is* loop cheese. He just stopped short of going infinite with it arbitrarily.

------------

For our players at home, since Psycho assumed we'd take his challenge at face-value, let me lay down the ground rules:

Level 3
Standard WBL
Assume we're running the thin red line between RAW and ToS
Up to 3 buff rounds
Melee attack damage for 1 round
You may not assume anything about your opponent except that he'll remain standing long enough for you to make all your attack roles(or if you're using trip/grapple/bull-rush/etc, he'll react mechanically appropriate).

JaronK
2010-10-27, 01:47 AM
Frankly, I think killing a bag of rats but then consistantly being able to do the damage is a lot less cheesy than having a build that only hits the target when it uses a once per day pre fight buffing session and then only actually works 1 in 20 times. That build could only pull the whole thing off one day in 20. Mine works any time you buy a bag of rats (you can do it at the beginning of the dungeon, then just charge through like a mad man and keep the bonus if you move fast enough).

JaronK

Drakevarg
2010-10-27, 01:47 AM
I'm sure there's ways to climb higher even with the books I have on hand, but part of my limitations is that this character is part of a 20-level build designed to get me around 64 STR. (I've got another, 19-level build that can get me 85 STR, but it's alot less interesting to play through.)

Barbarian 4/Wizard 1/Green Star Adept 7/Bear Warrior 5/Warshaper 2/Frenzied Berserker 1

vs

Barbarian 1/Cleric 17/Frenzied Berserker 1

Godless_Paladin
2010-10-27, 01:50 AM
Anyways, as long as we're assuming critical hits, max damage, and free buff time, you can just take a guy and feed him potions like Divine Sacrifice (+30 damage), Blade of Blood (+18 damage), just add those things onto what you already have. You can probably go on for a good while like this. You would also probably do well not to take a 2nd level in Barbarian, since that gets you nothing but Uncanny Dodge. Grab something else that boosts your strength, like Cleric 1 with that devotion feat that gives you like +8 strength. It's Animal or something, I think. I don't have my books handy. As for your book list, OP, I don't generally remember what's from what offhand. Sorry.

There's lots of stuff you can do to push maximum damage (with buff time, etc) higher and higher; it's simply a matter of finding out how many effects are stackable and drinking a bunch of potions or whatever. Ultimately, though, it's not something I'd want to work out, since I'd be more interested with delivering reliable and efficient damage to targets through various special defenses in various situations while keeping myself decently safe. But that's the difference between TO and PO. *Shrug*


Frankly, I think killing a bag of rats but then consistantly being able to do the damage is a lot less cheesy than having a build that only hits the target when it uses a once per day pre fight buffing session and then only actually works 1 in 20 times. That build could only pull the whole thing off one day in 20. Mine works any time you buy a bag of rats (you can do it at the beginning of the dungeon, then just charge through like a mad man and keep the bonus if you move fast enough).

JaronK

Eh, one's a silly swingy nova, one's an instance of limitless stacking silliness. They're both rather unpleasant, but the limitless stacking is more unpleasant.

herrhauptmann
2010-10-27, 02:07 AM
Sadly, I don't have one of those. *Points to book list in sig.*

On the other hand, my cousin (i.e., the DM) does have the Arms and Equipment Guide. I could swap out my greataxe for one when I get there. (I have a Masterwork Silver Greataxe, Masterwork Silver Warmace, and Masterwork Dire Pick all to overcome DR.)

You've got 2 silver weapons one slashing, one bashing, and a stabbing weapon. First, doesn't alchemical silver subtract 1 from damage?
Second, you're missing out on DR/cold iron.

At your level, creatures with DR/silver or cold iron are pretty rare. And the ones that do exist are along the lines of imps/quasits. 1 solid hit and they're dead, even with their DR.
Your money would be better spent elsewhere. Just grab yourself 2 weapons, 1 does one type of damage, the other does the other 2. Like the morning star does bashing+stabbing, add in a greataxe for slashing, and call it a day.
That'll save more cash as well.

You're also missing some form of light weapon, ie: one that can be used in a grapple, or perhaps hidden/thrown in a pinch. Don't waste huge amounts of money on a weapon intended for a combat which very few DMs use (grapple), and that thrown weapon isn't going to do much damage either, nor are you likely to go and pick the weapon up right after you throw it. So don't waste money on masterwork and special materials. Also completely missing some form of ranged attack. Maybe a Mty 3 Composite long bow to use some of your awesome strength? Airborne wizards are rare at your level, but you'll still have creatures hanging off the ceiling, or up in the air. Doing more than 1d4 damage is nice, and a bow/xbow is better than just throwing 3 daggers at it, then picking them up again, like a game of darts.

I'd also suggest finding ways to boost your average damage rather than your max, or to do your max more often.
So greatswords over the greataxe. Scythe over the heavy pick. Both examples, have same max (non crit), but different minimums.
Regarding crits, I prefer a larger range (more often means more reliable to my eyes) over a higher crit multiplier. And then to increase my liklihood of getting and guaranteeing the crit, before I boost the crit damage.
ex: Your character. You do over 100 points of damage on a crit, if the DM is new, you'll just panic him and he'll give you fights that are too difficult considering that you deal that damage less than 5% of the time.


It's late, I didn't ramble too badly, did I?

Dark_Nohn
2010-10-27, 02:17 AM
Same basic idea, but mercurial greatsword.
12x4 weap + 72 (str) +16 PA = 136 damage.
edit:
Sorry, had to do it.
18x4...
he has enlarge person on, which enlarges the player's equipment to large size as well (including weapons) A mercurial greatsword at large size is 3d6 (20x4)
No magic weapon for that extra +1 bonus to damage (and hit) ?

Also, this is level 3, so the max you can PA in 3.5 is +3x4=12


That said, why do the rogues I run with tend to get crit-high weapons in place of standard weapons at the expense of dice faces or feats?

Drakevarg
2010-10-27, 02:23 AM
You've got 2 silver weapons one slashing, one bashing, and a stabbing weapon. First, doesn't alchemical silver subtract 1 from damage?
Second, you're missing out on DR/cold iron.

At your level, creatures with DR/silver or cold iron are pretty rare. And the ones that do exist are along the lines of imps/quasits. 1 solid hit and they're dead, even with their DR.
Your money would be better spent elsewhere. Just grab yourself 2 weapons, 1 does one type of damage, the other does the other 2. Like the morning star does bashing+stabbing, add in a greataxe for slashing, and call it a day.
That'll save more cash as well.

I think I'll switch one of the silvers to a cold iron (after all, you rarely get multiple types of DR to deal with on one creature) and swap my greataxe and dire pick for a scythe. (Slashing and piercing.)


Also completely missing some form of ranged attack. Maybe a Mty 3 Composite long bow to use some of your awesome strength? Airborne wizards are rare at your level, but you'll still have creatures hanging off the ceiling, or up in the air. Doing more than 1d4 damage is nice, and a bow/xbow is better than just throwing 3 daggers at it, then picking them up again, like a game of darts.

If I could spare the feat I'd get EWP: Greatbow, but I thing I'll get Comp Longbow instead. Use the money from the dropped weapon.


18x4...
he has enlarge person on, which enlarges the player's equipment to large size as well (including weapons) A mercurial greatsword at large size is 3d6 (20x4)
No magic weapon for that extra +1 bonus to damage (and hit) ?

Well, my spell slot that could've been used for magic weapon was used up with fist of stone, which apparently does not work that way.

Also, I totally forgot about the increased weapon sizes. Thanks!


You would also probably do well not to take a 2nd level in Barbarian, since that gets you nothing but Uncanny Dodge.

The 2nd Barbarian level is needed for longer-term purposes of the build.

Dark_Nohn
2010-10-27, 02:34 AM
When you get higher level, Metalline weapon property is your friend



METALLINE
Price: +2 bonus
Property: Weapon
When you activate a metalline weapon,
you can change its composition to ada*
mantine, alchemical silver, cold iron, or
ordinary steel.


Also, for you archers out there, it doesn't say so, but this would probably bestow its properties on the ammo, as it states "Property: Weapon," while others sometimes say "Property: Melee Weapon," or "Property: Ranged Weapon."

Ernir
2010-10-27, 04:14 AM
So, similar challenge for the rest of you: Infinite loop cheese aside, whats the most damage you can pull off with a melee attack by Level 3?

Orc Fighter 2/Barbarian 1. Str 22 to start with, 26 while RAGEing.
Feats: Mounted Combat [1], Ride-by Attack [Fighter 1], Spirited Charge [Fighter 2], Power Attack [3]

Critical max damage full PA lance hit: 5*(8 + 12 + 6) = 130

Core only, no buff time.


That said, why do the rogues I run with tend to get crit-high weapons in place of standard weapons at the expense of dice faces or feats?
They must either have things that make crits and SA synergize, like Telling Blow and Craven... or they are just making suboptimal choices. I think the latter is more common. =/

Iferus
2010-10-27, 05:42 AM
How about a Goliath with barbarian racial substitution levels?

At first level (ECL 2), that's a strength of 28 while mountain raging.
At second level, you can have the Greathammer EWP, power attack and some equipment.

base damage: 3d6 + 13 (str) +1 (magical) + 4 (power attack) = max 36
crit x4 : 12d6 + 52 (str) +4 (magical) + 16 (power attack) = max 144

With time to boost:
potion of Enlarge Person, potion of Bull's Strength => Strength 34.

base damage: 4d6 + 18 (str) +1 (magical) + 4 (power attack) = max 47
crit x4 : 16d6 + 72 (str) +4 (magical) + 16 (power attack) = max 188

Maryring
2010-10-27, 06:01 AM
What if I conviced my DM I was breaking/crushing faces?


Only if your name is Crushestro.

faceroll
2010-10-27, 06:06 AM
Half-minotaur water orc barbarian with reckless rage feat and a psionic tattoo of expansion has 18+12+6+4+2 =42 str at ECL2 and is a huge creature.

First level crit damage with greathorn minotaur greathammer: 16d6+96, which averages out to 152 damage.

No crit hits are still averaging 38 damage. Use whirling frenzy variant, and you're rage gets you an extra attack at -2, +2 AC, and no con bonus (with reckless rage, total rage modifiers are +6 str, +2 con, 1 extra attack and all attacks take -2 penalty).

You also have reach out to 15 feat, have a gore attack, natural armor, and like +8 con from rage, water orc, and half-minotaur.

If you pick up Primeval levels late in the game (see Frostburn), when you've got 12+ HD or so, you can moar str. Like +20 more or so. With the right spells, I'm pretty sure you can get 100 strength.

Leon
2010-10-27, 06:56 AM
If I could spare the feat I'd get EWP: Greatbow, but I thing I'll get Comp Longbow instead. Use the money from the dropped weapon.


Greatbow isnt all that great, if your after the d10 damage dice its eaier to get a Heavy Crossbow. If you still wanting to spend a feat for a d10 damage a Heavy Repeating Crossbow is sill going to be better than a Greatbow.

prufock
2010-10-27, 07:03 AM
Enlarge Person = 28 STR (+9 Bonus)
...
STR Bonus = +12 Dmg (Two-Handing)
If you're 2-handing while raging and enlarged, shouldn't this be +13?
1.5*9=13.5, round down
That would put your damage up by 4 more points.

jiriku
2010-10-27, 08:56 AM
Frankly, I think killing a bag of rats but then consistantly being able to do the damage is a lot less cheesy than having a build that only hits the target when it uses a once per day pre fight buffing session and then only actually works 1 in 20 times. That build could only pull the whole thing off one day in 20. Mine works any time you buy a bag of rats (you can do it at the beginning of the dungeon, then just charge through like a mad man and keep the bonus if you move fast enough).

JaronK

But how do you keep the rats from escaping once you start making ratatouille with them? It seems to me that as soon as you start cleaving off their tails to ratchet up your bonus to a cheesy level, your furry victims will raturally attempt to flea.

Ernir
2010-10-27, 09:25 AM
But how do you keep the rats from escaping once you start making ratatouille with them? It seems to me that as soon as you start cleaving off their tails to ratchet up your bonus to a cheesy level, your furry victims will raturally attempt to flea.

Hmm.

Better invest in glue as well as rats.

Godless_Paladin
2010-10-27, 09:36 AM
The 2nd Barbarian level is needed for longer-term purposes of the build.

Is this thread about improving your character or, as you said in the first post, "whats the most damage you can pull off with a melee attack by Level 3? (assuming max damage rolls, buff time, crit, etc)"

Because those are very different goalposts. One is practical optimization, the other theoretical optimization.

Keld Denar
2010-10-27, 10:36 AM
Does it have to be single target? Or can it be multiple targets? Cause my entry for most attacks per round also deals the most damage at level ONE!

Human Wizard1
Precocious Apprentice (Whirling Blade)
Sudden Enlarge Spell
18 Str (+4), Enlarge Person (20/+5)

Cast Master's Touch to become proficient with a Greatsword, then Enlarge Person to get a 3d6+7 attack, and maybe Magic Weapon for 3d6+8. Max damage is 26 non-crit, or 52 crit. Now make your CL check to cast Whirling Blade and apply Sudden Enlarge Spell to it. You have a 120' line, 10' wide, worth of attacks that deal 3d6+8. Assuming all hits crit, and all Whirling Blade squares are filled with medium sized targets, thats 240 attacks in a round for 52 damage each, or 12,480 damage.

We could tweak this up even more, within the bounds of our experiement. Since we are using the autocrit concept, a large scythe would deal 2d6+8 x4, or 80 per hit. Thats 19200 damage.

If all of the targets were kobolds with Swarmfighting, there could be up to 4 kobolds in each square (due to Slight Build). That further mulitplies damage up to 76,800 damage.

And if you REALLY wanted to get creative, technically an infinite number of creatures can occupy the same square using the grappling rules. Since Whirling Blade gets one attack vs every creature in its path, you could essentially hit every person in the grapple the world in a single spell. For the glory of the numbers, if we assuming earth's population of what, 6.1 billion people, thats ~488,000,000,000 damage. At level 1.

Theoretically speaking, of course.

Do I win? :smallcool:

Godless_Paladin
2010-10-27, 10:38 AM
Eh, it's not against a single target. And I'm sure he'll say it's another example of limitless shenanigans.

Keld Denar
2010-10-27, 10:42 AM
Hey, I started at limited and worked my way up to limitless. And technically, it still IS limited, since there are only a finite number of creatures on any given plane at any given time. If we were playing the infinite kobolds game, it would truely be infinite in the sense that X * infinity = infinity for all small values of infinity.

LordBlades
2010-10-27, 11:01 AM
How about a Goliath with barbarian racial substitution levels?

At first level (ECL 2), that's a strength of 28 while mountain raging.
At second level, you can have the Greathammer EWP, power attack and some equipment.

base damage: 3d6 + 13 (str) +1 (magical) + 4 (power attack) = max 36
crit x4 : 12d6 + 52 (str) +4 (magical) + 16 (power attack) = max 144

With time to boost:
potion of Enlarge Person, potion of Bull's Strength => Strength 34.

base damage: 4d6 + 18 (str) +1 (magical) + 4 (power attack) = max 47
crit x4 : 16d6 + 72 (str) +4 (magical) + 16 (power attack) = max 188

You can also add Mighty Wallop in there as long as you're buffing.

Drakevarg
2010-10-27, 02:47 PM
Hey, I started at limited and worked my way up to limitless. And technically, it still IS limited, since there are only a finite number of creatures on any given plane at any given time. If we were playing the infinite kobolds game, it would truely be infinite in the sense that X * infinity = infinity for all small values of infinity.


You may not assume anything about your opponent except that he'll remain standing long enough for you to make all your attack roles(or if you're using trip/grapple/bull-rush/etc, he'll react mechanically appropriate).

Expecting 6.1 Billion people to be grappling in the same spot is a big assumption on your opponent.

Let's limit it to one target to avoid similar problems like Great Cleaving an infinite line of Commoners.

true_shinken
2010-10-27, 03:03 PM
Illumian Duskblade 3; CL 5 with feats, Str 18. Channels Shocking Grasp, casts Blade of Blood as a swift (+3d6 damage).
Damage: 64 from scythe, plus 18 from Blade of Blood, for 82 damage. Shocking Grasp does 5d6 damage, doubled and maxed that's 60. Total of 142 damage, single target.
Also, with 4 level 1 spell slots at level 3, this guy can do this at least 2/day (ignoring bonus spells from high Intelligence).
If you have Versatille Spellcaster, you can do this even more often. You can get it from flaws (Dragontouched+Versatile Spellcaster), selling your soul or Kansas City Dark Chaos shuffle. Alternatively, choose another race (since illumian costs 2 feats to boost your CL) and use the gloves from Magic Item Compendium that boost your CL for arcane spells something like 2/day or 3/day; they cost less than 1k gold.

JaronK
2010-10-27, 03:08 PM
Orc Fighter 2/Barbarian 1. Str 22 to start with, 26 while RAGEing.
Feats: Mounted Combat [1], Ride-by Attack [Fighter 1], Spirited Charge [Fighter 2], Power Attack [3]

Critical max damage full PA lance hit: 5*(8 + 12 + 6) = 130

Core only, no buff time.

Spirited Charge requires +6 BAB.

JaronK

Keld Denar
2010-10-27, 03:17 PM
Expecting 6.1 Billion people to be grappling in the same spot is a big assumption on your opponent.

Expecting all of your hits to hit and crit and roll max damage is a pretty big assumption. Again, I started from simple and worked my way up to ludacris.

I did mention hypothetical in my post, did I not?

faceroll
2010-10-27, 03:59 PM
Spirited Charge requires +6 BAB.

JaronK

Since when?

senrath
2010-10-27, 04:02 PM
Since when?

Since never. It's requirements are: Ride 1 rank, Mounted Combat, and Ride-By Attack.

faceroll
2010-10-27, 04:05 PM
Since never. It's requirements are: Ride 1 rank, Mounted Combat, and Ride-By Attack.

That's what I thought.
:smallconfused:

grimbold
2010-10-28, 09:56 AM
why go for max damage when you can sleep enemies and then kill them?