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View Full Version : I want to make a Gish. Help? (Pathfinder)



Otherworld Odd
2010-10-27, 04:14 PM
First thing's first: I've only played a Psion and a rogue in extended games, and an inquisitor in a one-session game. I have no, I repeat ZERO, experience with sorcerers or wizards in Pathfinder or 3.5.

But I want to give them a shot.

Let's assume the character is 7th - 10th. If you'd like to take it farther, go ahead.
(I'd actually like that.)
All Pathfinder books are available, along with 3.5 splatbooks and the core PHBs for 3.5.

I was thinking taking Celestial or Aberrant bloodlines. All of them look good though and I'm really up to suggestions.

Any advice would be great. Throw it at me. Spell suggestions, etc. I'm really looking for a class level layout though. Like what classes to take, what levels I should take them, etc, etc. I know if I tried to do this myself I would end up as an ineffective lump. x_x.

Eldariel
2010-10-27, 05:18 PM
How much material would you work with? That radically alters what kinds of viable Gish-builds exist.

Otherworld Odd
2010-10-27, 05:27 PM
What exactly do you mean by how much material? How many books can I work with?


I forgot to mention in the initial post, but I'm fairly new to dnd. (Only about a year or two under my belt.)

Eldariel
2010-10-27, 05:40 PM
What exactly do you mean by how much material? How many books can I work with?

Yes, which source books do you have access to?

Otherworld Odd
2010-10-27, 05:46 PM
I'm assuming everything in Pathfinder plus:

3.5: PHB 1 and 2 and the Complete Series (besides psionics).

Anything found in the 3.5 books that has been redone for Pathfinder is invalid however. You have to take the new PF version.

Eldariel
2010-10-27, 05:58 PM
I'm assuming everything in Pathfinder plus:

3.5: PHB 1 and 2 and the Complete Series (besides psionics).

Anything found in the 3.5 books that has been redone for Pathfinder is invalid however. You have to take the new PF version.

Sure, that's fine. That's actually quite excellent; it gives you a number of good options. There's the:

X 2/Wizard (or Sorc) 4/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist (or Eldritch Knight) 8

X 1/Wizard (or Sorc) 5 (or 6)/Eldritch Knight 8-9/Abjurant Champion 5


And that's about it. Once of those two is what you want. X is any martial class, though build #1 needs Heavy Armor Proficiency limiting you to Fighter & Paladin (or Barbarian + Feat). Latter can use anything with all martial weapon profs (I'm partial to Ranger; skills are awesome and Ranger gets plenty).

Feats...well, you obviously want Arcane Strike from Complete Warrior (it's totally different from the PF feat so it should be alright; if you can't take it, c'est la vie). Knowledge Devotion from Complete Champion is also nice if you're base Wizard. Divine Might from Complete Divine is good if you're a base Sorcerer and take levels in Sacred Exorcist (since getting your Cha to damage Cha+3 times per day is nice).

The rest should be obvious stuff; Power Attack, maybe Improved Trip, Extend Spell, Quicken Spell, etc. That sort of stuff. Stuff that's nice for warriors and stuff that's nice for casters, particularly ones that like buffing themselves. Smiting Spell [PHBII] is a good one too.


Then, buffs. Wraithstrike from Complete Arcane is obscene but it may be too good. Check with your DM. There's the usual Greater Magic Weapon, Enlarge Person, Heroism, Invisibility, Mirror Image, Mage Armor, False Life, Shield, Bull's Strength-line and company you'll want to make heavy use of (especially if you go Abjurant Champion; magical armor is super effective on them). Player's Handbook II notably has Greater Mirror Image and, of course, the almighty dreaded Celerity. Again, check with your DM; acting as an immediate action is strong. Other than that, gishes like Teleports, some simple magical offense (particularly with Smiting Spell), Contingency and the Polymorph-line effects (particularly Giant Forms, Elemental Forms and Dragon Forms are very useful).

Also note that Telekinesis is very powerful in the hands of a Gish thanks to their high Base Attack Bonus. Capsize a Portable Hole full of Colossal Weapons and hurl as many of them at the opponent as you can. You can generate a Macross Missile Massacre (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MacrossMissileMassacre) that way. Except with swords. Oh, and Rod of Chain Spell is a nice thing to have access to. And stuff like Enervation and company is good too, when you wanna shoot laser beams (you could pick up Split Ray to be particularly vexing about that). No-save effects are good as a rule.

Trundlebug
2010-10-27, 06:03 PM
Well there a lot of gish builds out there. You may want to think about what you want this fella to do, is a high CL really important, HP, BAB? All? Depending on how many classes you take, you won't get too much out of your bloodline.

Pally2/Sorc4/Abjurant Champion5/Spellsword1/Knight Phantom or Eldritch Blade or Sacred Exorcist. I like KP and SExorcist over EB. SE gives you turn attempts so access to divine feats if you like that.

Good gishy spells; Ebon Eyes, Wraithstrike, Heroics, Whirling Blade, Benign Transportation

Heroics is silly.

I had a bud make a wizzy gish that completely trumped mine using Phantom Knight as the main backstory drive, silly character. Mounted combat feats and a phantom steed, spellstoring lance and some other fun stuff. Haha.

The sorc version as very good saves though and can be used to take spells for your mates.

Mithril shirt/breastplate, thistledown vest, that will be armor if want an alternative/backup to only magic defenses.

Ooops, I should really read through the OP better. I'll leave what I have here, and poke around. I'm sure someone will answer better than I.

Aron Times
2010-10-27, 06:04 PM
I prefer Stalwart Sorcerer 6/Swiftblade 10/Abjurant Champion 4. Only goes up to 8th-level spells, but you're a much better warrior than most other gish builds.

Stalwart Sorcerer and Abjurant Champion are from Complete Mage, while Swiftblade is from the Complete Mage web enhancement (download it before the archives get taken down for good).

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327

Otherworld Odd
2010-10-27, 06:23 PM
@[email protected] Great advice guys. I think I'm just going to go ahead and print out this page so I can use it anywhere. . . Much thanks. :D

Swooper
2010-10-27, 09:30 PM
X 1/Wizard (or Sorc) 5 (or 6)/Eldritch Knight 8-9/Abjurant Champion 5
You need 6 levels of wizard or sorcerer here to get the +4 BAB needed to qualify for EK.

Eldariel
2010-10-27, 10:18 PM
You need 6 levels of wizard or sorcerer here to get the +4 BAB needed to qualify for EK.

...EK doesn't have BAB requirements...

Amiel
2010-10-28, 05:19 AM
I'm assuming everything in Pathfinder plus:

3.5: PHB 1 and 2 and the Complete Series (besides psionics).

Anything found in the 3.5 books that has been redone for Pathfinder is invalid however. You have to take the new PF version.

If you're willing to wait a bit, the Magus (http://paizo.com/store/downloads/pathfinder/pathfinderRPG/v5748btpy8gte&source=search) class is soon to be released. It may be pretty much what you are looking for.

Swooper
2010-10-28, 05:47 AM
...EK doesn't have BAB requirements...
My bad, must have been confusing it with Spellsword or something :smallredface:

Otherworld Odd
2010-10-28, 12:14 PM
If you're willing to wait a bit, the Magus (http://paizo.com/store/downloads/pathfinder/pathfinderRPG/v5748btpy8gte&source=search) class is soon to be released. It may be pretty much what you are looking for.

I actually found this while google searching more builds. I think I'm going to ask my DM if I can run the playtest version and go into some type of Magus/Swiftblade character.

Otherworld Odd
2010-11-08, 11:06 PM
So after vigorous research, I'd like to get your guys' second input on a gish based on the Wilder psionic class.


Also, how much do colossal weapons cost? I really like the idea of the Macross Missile Massacre mentioned earlier. O_o

Coidzor
2010-11-08, 11:19 PM
Not sure about Wilder, are you married to Wilder or would any manifesting class do? I hear Ardent is more preferred for psigishing due to its manifesting being based directly on its manifester level.

I think there's an educated wilder ACF (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a) or maybe the mantle'd one that's better for gishing in the web enhancements (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/psi) Wizards did.

Also, the whole Tashalatoran Psi Warrior.

Otherworld Odd
2010-11-08, 11:46 PM
Not sure about Wilder, are you married to Wilder or would any manifesting class do? I hear Ardent is more preferred for psigishing due to its manifesting being based directly on its manifester level.

I think there's an educated wilder ACF (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a) or maybe the mantle'd one that's better for gishing in the web enhancements (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/psi) Wizards did.

Also, the whole Tashalatoran Psi Warrior.

Nah, I'm good with any psionic class really. Wilder just struck me as more of a melee-capable class than psion. (I've never really looked into ardent or the tashalatoran.)

Coidzor
2010-11-08, 11:49 PM
Nah, I'm good with any psionic class really. Wilder just struck me as more of a melee-capable class than psion. (I've never really looked into ardent or the tashalatoran.)

Well, Psychic Warrior is basically a pre-made psionic gish. Tashalatora is a feat that allows it to progress monk unarmed strike damage. First two levels of monk can get some useful combat maneuver feats without the pre-requisites that size-increasing psychic warriors can appreciate.

And if unarmored there's AC/casting stat synergy from wisdom.