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nihilism
2010-10-28, 06:49 PM
well i have to make a brutally optimized wizard (dm's orders) in 1.5 days while still retaining a good rp theme of scary necromancer (but not to necromancer)

can anyone quickly throw some tips, spells or books on the table?

jiriku
2010-10-28, 06:57 PM
Play the dread necromancer class from HoH. Pump your save DCs. Get a bunch of undead. Alternately, check this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173683)for some cool shenanigans.

sreservoir
2010-10-28, 07:15 PM
necropolitan + tainted scholar.

what.

Boci
2010-10-28, 07:20 PM
For OP, wizards is generally better than the dread necro without spellstiched shinanigens on your undead minions. Spirit wall is pretty awesome. Not only does it require a will save to apraoch and a fort save to shake off a negative level when crossing it, but it blocks magical affects. Necrotic skull bomb is a good use for a swift action, but make sure your opponents have low fort saves or debuff them first.
Illusionary pit affects a massive area and stuns opponents even on a successful will save. Just reflavour it as showing the target a glimpse of their own death.
Animate dread warrior is good despite the XP cost, just don't cast it too many times unless you have a way to ignore it/can spend it in the background story.

Also:http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869142/Treantmonks_guide_to_Necromancy:_Gods_Tools

Foryn Gilnith
2010-10-28, 07:31 PM
What level is the necromancer? That affects several build choices.

nihilism
2010-10-28, 07:53 PM
damn i forgot most of the crucial info,

edition: 3.5 but 3rd edition stuff is fine.

lvl 9

basically the biggest focus is survival against everyone,


oh and he has a horrid little imp

mootoall
2010-10-28, 08:01 PM
Dirty trick I'm building right now: Fell Drain Sonic Snap. Drain a level, no save. Second level spell, less when you add metamagic reducers to it.

Boci
2010-10-28, 08:04 PM
Dirty trick I'm building right now: Fell Drain Sonic Snap. Drain a level, no save. Second level spell, less when you add metamagic reducers to it.

Magic missil is arguable. The extra level is well worth it for the multiple targets, just pray your enemies don't have shield up.

Foryn Gilnith
2010-10-28, 08:16 PM
Random idea: Have the fight occur in a room whose sides are filled with glass, crystals, and diamond shards. One of the diamonds is the focus for a Magic Jar. Meanwhile, cultist mooks are flooding into the room. The necromancer uses the Magic Jar to try and possess the PCs for a Save or Die; if that doesn't work out, he possesses cultists to cast his spells. His body is hidden behind the wall behind the magic jar; if the spell ends, he secretly flees to recuperate (for a later fight)

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869142/Treantmonks_guide_to_Necromancy:_Gods_Tools has more spell tips. http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3574.0 has a necromancer idea.

For more mundane nastiness, have the cultists be dwarves armed with breath masks (Sandstorm) and Sleep-Smoke (City of Splendors: Waterdeep). A whole bunch of DC 15 save-or-loses, very cheaply. Aboleth Mucus (Savage Species) or Eggshell Dust Grenades (Oriental Adventures) can be used as similar debuffs.

Escalating Enfeeblement (Complete Mage) may be useful; Power Word Fatigue (Races of Destiny) is a no-save way to set up the conditions for the Strength debuff, as is Ray of Exhaustion. Can really do a number on the party rogue or fighter. Also, we all apparently forgot to mention Shivering Touch.

Ryuk01
2010-10-28, 08:21 PM
Arcane Thesis is very, very powerful, especially when coupled with ray spells like Ray of Stupidity. Take the feat twice and reduce metamagic costs below zero! :smallsmile:

Boci
2010-10-28, 08:22 PM
A powerful tactic:
1st round: Fell draining magic missile
2nd round: Enervate on the toughest looking target
3rd round: Sculpted glitter dust (reflavoured as decaying eyes)

Urpriest
2010-10-28, 08:28 PM
Arcane Thesis is very, very powerful, especially when coupled with ray spells like Ray of Stupidity. Take the feat twice and reduce metamagic costs below zero! :smallsmile:

Does not work that way. Unless he's really really really allowed to bend the rules here.

GoodbyeSoberDay
2010-10-28, 08:30 PM
Brutally optimized? You could always abuse Incantatrix. Here's a sample build. Goes pretty far down the cheese line, but no where near as far as you could go.
Grey Elf Wizard 5/Incantatrix 4.
Moth Familiar (Dragon mag, + spellcraft), Elven Generalist sub levels
ACFs: Fighter Bonus Feats (improved initiative), Spontaneous Divination, Domain Wizard (necromancy)
Feats: Improved Initiative (Wiz), Extend Spell (1), Persistent Spell (Flaw: Noncombatant), Easy Metamagic: Persistent Spell (Flaw: Vulnerable), Ocular Spell (3), Iron Will (Otyugh Hole), Empower Spell (Metamagic Storm), Maximize Spell (Incant), Split Ray (6), Arcane Thesis: Enervation (9), Invisible Spell (Incant)
Dirty part 1: Pump int and spellcraft as high as possible. Get a custom item of + spellcraft if possible. Persist various buffs with Metamagic Effect, primarily from trans/abj/necro (don't ban these with Incant obviously). Make sure to get good bang for your buck here - multiple use spells like Greater Blink (utility/defense) work well.
(Dirty part 1b: Note with spontaneous divination I believe you can cast divination spells from other class lists and then persist them, but DMs tolerate only so much cheese and are within their rights not to allow that.)
Dirty part 2: Cast Invisible (-1) Ocular (+1) Split Ray (+1) Enervation in a level 5 slot, then use your remaining Metamagic Effect to tack on Empower and Maximize. Repeat for second eye. Bam, 12 negative levels at your fingertips in one action.Whatever you end up doing, remember that relying on negative energy too heavily makes you a one-trick-pony. Prepare good general-use spells on top of your necromancy-spell-oriented shenanigans.

Lev
2010-10-28, 08:39 PM
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869222/The_Wizards_Handbook

Logalmier
2010-10-28, 08:43 PM
Arcane Thesis for eneveration. Metamagic School Focus (necromancy) Slap on a ton of metamagic feats to eneveration and kill everything.

Alternatively: Chained Magic Jar.

faceroll
2010-10-28, 09:32 PM
Libris Mortis has the Slaymate, an undead little girl. Reduces metamagic costs by 1 on necromancy spells.

For a race, I would go with a fey creature (uldra, maybe?) or an outsider and claim that you come from the realm of the fey (Manual of the Planes). Cast Planar Bubble and all your spells are maximized, empowered, and extended (or enlarged; can't remember which). But yeah, that's some gouda. Oh, and the best part? Getting to take 7 rounds worth of turns for every 1 round anyone not in your bubble gets.

nihilism
2010-10-28, 11:05 PM
i am mainly trying to focus on survival at least for a round or 2

Boci
2010-10-28, 11:35 PM
Take the feat Retributive Spell and use blinding surge. Then whenever you take damage, the creature attacking you must make a will save or be blinded and you become invisible for 1 round/level. Lesser metamagic rod of exstend and mage armour will help make up for your lack of armour.

Endarire
2010-10-29, 02:03 AM
Be a Magic-Blooded ("Dragon 306" for -2 WIS/+2 CHA) Dragonborn (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20060105b&page=1) Gray (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/elf.htm#grayElf) Fire Elf (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#fireElves) who takes the Necropolitan template later in life. Dump your CON and boost your DEX, INT, and CHA.

Class-wise, I recommend Wizard [Necromancer]5/Ultimate Magus4 (Complete Mage 77). This way, you have 11 effective Wizard levels at level 9.

Eventually, the build is Necromancer5/Ultimate Magus7/Full Casting1/WhateverX. You can cast L9 spells at level 14 this way, and at base CL17.

1: {Aggressive (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterTraits.htm#aggressive)}, {Murky-Eyed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingcharacters/characterflaws.htm#murkyEyed)}, {Noncombatant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingcharacters/characterflaws.htm#noncombatant)},
1: [Enhanced Undead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#enhancedUndead)], [Familiar: Hummingbird ("Dragon 323" 98 for +4 initiative OR a Raven (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm#familiars) for using staves and wands) , [Opposed Schools: Enchantment, Illusion]

1: Corpsecrafter ([i]Libris Mortis 25), Easy Metamagic: Fell Drain ("Dragon 325"), Fell Drain (Libris Mortis 27)
3: Energy Substitution: Cold
5: [Spontaneous Divination] (Complete Champion 62)
6: [Arcane Spell Power I: +1 Arcane CL]
9: -=FEAT=-
- = - = - = - = - = BREAK = - = - = - = - = -
10: [Arcane Spell Power II: +2 Arcane CL], [@METAMAGIC [email protected]]

-=FEAT POOL=-
-Arcane Thesis: enervation (Player's Handbook II 74)
-Leadership: Cleric Cohort for desecrate
-Lord of the Uttercold (Complete Arcane 80)
-Quicken Spell

You can take it from here.

GoodbyeSoberDay
2010-10-29, 04:31 AM
i am mainly trying to focus on survival at least for a round or 2Well, if you do go the Incantatrix persist abuse route, here's a list of potential buffs to persist:

Ray Deflection: Your most important defensive buff in certain high-op environments.
Greater Invisibility or Greater Mirror Image: If you have a lot of see invis type folk, the latter is better. Use both if you have Metamagic Effects to spare.
Greater Blink: Almost always get a miss chance and halve any AoE damage pre-save. Walk through walls. Talk with odd pauses for quirky RP.
Swift Fly: Perfect (and fast) flight all day in a level 2 slot.
See Invisibility: Yeah, you could cast this spontaneously, but usually it's good to have this on before you *know* it's good to have this on.
Alter Self: So many devious choices. Go Crucian if you're feeling boring.
Lord of the Sky: Okay, fine, it's more of a "fun times" spell than a defensive spell.

And here are some buffs no matter what kind of wizard you go:
Anticipate Teleportation: In high op, the enemies scry'n'die too.
Heart of Water: Freedom of Movement 1/day as a swift action? Yes please.
Heart of Earth: Temp HP and 1/day stoneskin. Synergy with Heart of Water.
Mage Armor: Obvious.
Divine Insight: Nabbed through spontaneous divination. Can be VERY useful.

Logalmier
2010-10-29, 07:34 PM
Adding to the above list, Elemental body gives you a ton of immunities, plus fly 60 ft if you choose the air body. If you extend it then it will last all day. You should always have it on at all times it's that good.

Plus it can be kinda creepy. A mage made only out of air, with no visible face. Something that alien can really throw you off.

Andion Isurand
2010-10-29, 07:54 PM
Divine Insight: Nabbed through spontaneous divination. Can be VERY useful.

The errata for Complete Champion states

Page 52 – Spontaneous Divination
- Benefit [Revision]
The first sentence should instead
read, “You can spontaneously cast
any spell you know from the
divination school by sacrificing a
prepared spell of equal or greater
level.”