TVTropes undergoes certain changes

[Haven]

As you may have noticed if you've tried to edit TVTropes in the last twelve hours or so, it is no longer possible to edit anonymously. Furthermore, site content is going to be a bit more strictly regulated. The reason for this is that TVTropes was audited by Google, who revealed that apparently the site was in violation of their terms of service. As a result, they pulled funding until TVTropes could revise itself to their standards.

Here is the situation as it stands. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Administrivia/TheSituation) That page will be updated as more information becomes available. There's no need to panic, but this seems like something relevant to most posters here.

[Fri]

I think this is more relevant to the the media discussion guys, but yes, this caught me off guard and now I'm a bit sad. I think rather than trying to appease google, it's better to find a new ad program, but well, I don't know much about ad programs except that from reading the forum, it turned out that an month with project wonderful yield the same revenue with an hour with google ad-sense.

[Coidzor]

They made crowning moment of awesome pink and changed the name with no rhyme or reason.

I mean, the name change alone would be weird but whatever. The pink was just crossing the line into bad taste.

[Fri]

...uh, do you know what we're talking about here?

We're talking about google ad-sense pulling their ads from tvtropes and now we don't know about the future of tvtropes since it takes thousands of dollar per month running that site.

[Coidzor]

Yes, I just find the pink most egregious of their design changes to rectify the situation.

[kamikasei]

Yes, I just find the pink most egregious of their design changes to rectify the situation.
I don't think it had anything to do with this situation. The pink is just SugarWiki which has been around for yonks, and the name change was part of a general cleanup from some time ago. Unless I'm sorely misinformed...

[Coidzor]

Only was happening since I went there after hearing about the changes. And the name change happened within the past week and a half.

[horngeek]

:smallconfused:

What. The pink had nothing to do with this. Why would Google even care about the color scheme?

[Coidzor]

:smallconfused:

What. The pink had nothing to do with this. Why would Google even care about the color scheme?

Well, Google's not the one implementing the changes, now are they. Nor was I blaming Google. Merely the most noticeable change I've seen so far. And one I feel is entirely pointless and the opposite of aesthetic.

[Fri]

...yeah, you said it yourself that it's completely unrelated with the change this topic is supposed to be talking about. The pink is sugar wiki that's been around for ages, and the name change is after an ongoing discussion about how everyone keep putting everything cool however small to the 'crowning moment of awesome' and it's really not about that trope anymore We... kinda should be back to track.

[Allan Surgite]

I think rather than trying to appease google, it's better to find a new ad program, but well, I don't know much about ad programs except that from reading the forum, it turned out that an month with project wonderful yield the same revenue with an hour with google ad-sense.
Two months with Project Wonderful.

The main problem is that TVTropes is expensive to run (thousands, according to Fast Eddie) and the Google contract is basically the main source of income. They've been with it for years, so any new contract won't be quite as lucrative for some time. The current plans are to make some parts of the wiki "Not Safe For Google"; put them behind a "this may not be family friendly" warning and have a different advertising contractor on these "NSFG" pages, in the same way that the TVTropes forum are currently running Amazon.com ads.

Also, CMOA was changes to Moment of Awesome (I'd prefer to call it Awesome Moment, but whatever) because people were only reading that part of it. Like the idea of a not particularly awesome work having two crowning moments of awesome. I think you can see what's wrong there.

Also, relevant. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Administrivia/TheSituation)

[Reshbj]

There's talk of a store (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=x1yzy57z2za0y17gagvy45qh&page=1) too. It actually looks like it's going ahead, surprisingly, and they're letting tropers design the first shirt(s).

[MoelVermillion]

Now that they're running cursor mania ads I'm getting pop ups when browsing TV tropes, is anyone else getting this?

[Neoriceisgood]

I hope this gets settled properly, Tvtropes is a really awesome site so it'd be awful if something bad were to happen to it. :smallfrown:


I do wonder what specific part got the adds pulled though, I don't think I've ever seen anything shockingly NSFW on there. :smallredface:

[Prime32]

I do wonder what specific part got the adds pulled though, I don't think I've ever seen anything shockingly NSFW on there. :smallredface:They have a "Porn Tropes" index.

[Noircat]

Srsly?

TVTropes is too awesome and unique to die.

[KnightDisciple]

I doubt TVTropes is going to "die". They seem to have a very solid plan of how to address Googles legitimate concerns. They're working to reach a conclusion that is satisfactory to both parties (hardly "appeasement"), which allows Google to maintain their intended purpose of their ads, while still allowing TVTropes to keep all their content and keep their revenue intact.

I'd wager that within a month or so, everything will be sorted out and back to normal.

[Allan Surgite]

Now that they're running cursor mania ads I'm getting pop ups when browsing TV tropes, is anyone else getting this?
Yes. Acknowledged by Fast Eddie, but they're sticking around until Google AdSense starts co-operating with TVTropes; apparently, they're the highest-grossing part of their new ad-deal, so they can't really not use it.

Incidentally, those who like to edit TVTropes (and have an account) should take into consideration that trying to edit now will ask you to agree to their Terms of Service again, as is detailed on their The Situation page.

[Dvandemon]

The only problem I currently have is I seem to have trouble making an edit account (and right when I was adding more tropes to my favorite page) and now I'm worrying about tvtropes

[Dr.Epic]

They made crowning moment of awesome pink and changed the name with no rhyme or reason.

I mean, the name change alone would be weird but whatever. The pink was just crossing the line into bad taste.

I haven't been on the site recently, but is it really that bad?

[Prime32]

I haven't been on the site recently, but is it really that bad?Sugar Wiki (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/SugarWiki/SweetExists) has been around for a while. As has Darth Wiki (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/DarthWiki/ThisExists).

They have nothing to do with the current issue.

[Fri]

I believe that sugarwiki is meant to be tacky. Like, oooh, everything is pegasus and rainbow and princess! There's a trope about purposefully making something like that, which I'm too lazy to find out now.

edit: and yeah. it's been there for a loooooooooooooooooong time.

[Prime32]

I believe that sugarwiki is meant to be tacky. There's a trope about purposefully making something like that, which I'm too lazy to find out now.Tastes Like Diabetes?

[Fri]

yes that. And one other trope, uuh, stylistic suck? maybe not that, but close enough to what I got in my mind.

[Psyren]

My favorite of the alternative Tropes wikis is the Playing With Wiki, where they take a trope and find ways to play it straight, subvert it, invert it, double-subvert it, zig-zag it etc. For example, The Butler Did It (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/PlayingWith/TheButlerDidIt).

As for the topic at hand, I personally think everyone who really cares about the wiki should have gotten known already anyway. I certainly did.

[Lord Seth]

The reason I edit anonymously (usually from school) is that even if you get known, TV Tropes publicly displays your IP address in the edit history, which is pretty much an invitation to hackers.

Did they at least fix that when making this change?

[hamishspence]

What annoys me at the moment is the popups.

[Psyren]

The reason I edit anonymously (usually from school) is that even if you get known, TV Tropes publicly displays your IP address in the edit history, which is pretty much an invitation to hackers.

Did they at least fix that when making this change?

If someone wants your IP they can generally find it; a wiki tends to be home to less asshats than, say, an imageboard or other questionable site.

(Not including questionable wikis of course, e.g. ED.)

Besides, editing TvTropes will display your IP whether you're known or not; it seems to me the course of action if you're that worried is not to edit any pages.

[Lord Seth]

Besides, editing TvTropes will display your IP whether you're known or not;That's exactly my problem. That's why I do my editing from other places that don't have my IP. But I don't want to sign in on those other places. Thus I ultimately just do the editing anonymously.


it seems to me the course of action if you're that worried is not to edit any pages.But why not just do what Wikipedia (or practically any other wiki) does, and not display IP addresses publicly if the person is registered? Simple solution.

[Psyren]

But why not just do what Wikipedia (or practically any other wiki) does, and not display IP addresses publicly if the person is registered? Simple solution.

Well, the only thing I can think of is that TvTropes is the only wiki that doesn't fully "register" users and give them an account tied to an e-mail address somewhere. Instead, it's all bundled into that cookie they bake. Maybe that has something to do with it?

[Reshbj]

It's because spammers tend to come in and make anonymous edits, I guess.

[Rogue 7]

I've always been really, really resistant to change on TVTropes for some reason, and the thought of losing cursing privileges, while ostensibly minimal, is really kind of grating. I can't help but be mad at Google.

Though I suppose that it would be good in the long run.

[KnightDisciple]

I've always been really, really resistant to change on TVTropes for some reason, and the thought of losing cursing privileges, while ostensibly minimal, is really kind of grating. I can't help but be mad at Google.

Though I suppose that it would be good in the long run.Isn't the blame more on TVTropes for, essentially, ignoring part of their terms of agreement with Google? :smallconfused:

[Rogue 7]

Isn't the blame more on TVTropes for, essentially, ignoring part of their terms of agreement with Google? :smallconfused:

Don't be logical with me. I'm in no mood for logic.:smalltongue:

[KnightDisciple]

Don't be logical with me. I'm in no mood for logic.:smalltongue:It doesn't seem like the end result will be a huge change. Maybe a bit of cleanup on the non-"backstage" pages, and a single verification screen. *Shrugs*

[AtopTheMountain]

It doesn't seem like the end result will be a huge change. Maybe a bit of cleanup on the non-"backstage" pages, and a single verification screen. *Shrugs*

And if you're a known user, you can simply set it up to bypass the verification screen entirely. The main annoyance for me is the popups.

[KnightDisciple]

And if you're a known user, you can simply set it up to bypass the verification screen entirely. The main annoyance for me is the popups.*cough*Firefoxadblocker*cough*

[Athaniar]

I don't think I've used the site after the changes, but they don't sound that bad. I've been kinda sceptical towards anonymous edits anyway, so that part is probably for the best.

[Rhydeble]

so does this mean that the (rather tame) flaming that can go on in TvTropes will be gone?

Spoiler for light language

I'm mostly thinking about the "we're a buttload more informal" thing where they explain how they're different from wikipedia.

[Psyren]

so does this mean that the (rather tame) flaming that can go on in TvTropes will be gone?

Spoiler for light language

I'm mostly thinking about the "we're a buttload more informal" thing where they explain how they're different from wikipedia.

I always took that phrase to mean "you can drop in an example wherever you feel like without worrying about how accurate your source is, or even having the source to hand at all." They don't like flaming over there any more than any other site dedicated to fun.

[Lord Seth]

Well after checking it now looks like it doesn't leave your IP address on the edit page after you edit. Woohoo! I retract my complaints about that. Now I can start editing from home again!

[Evil DM Mark3]

Given the problem (google saying that they could not enforce standards) this was the least intrusive way of doing things.

[Avilan the Grey]

I don't think I've used the site after the changes, but they don't sound that bad. I've been kinda sceptical towards anonymous edits anyway, so that part is probably for the best.

The only thing I have noticed so far was a mild "content warning" on the "Just Bugs Me" entries, basically saying "less polite language, continue Yes Maybe No".

[catchthesun]

They have a "Porn Tropes" index.

Yes, but, last time I checked, nothing in there had anything particularly NSFW. Except for the pic on Naughty Tentacles, perhaps. Unless I have a looser definition of NSFW than most people. Which is quite likely.

[Tirian]

Well after checking it now looks like it doesn't leave your IP address on the edit page after you edit. Woohoo! I retract my complaints about that. Now I can start editing from home again!

Your IP address is not a secret.

http://www.frontiernet.net/~mwdaly/mojo_pic.jpg

Just to give an example, your browser had to communicate with my server to download that picture, and it told my server what your IP address is so that I'd know where to send the picture. So (in theory) I can scan through my server logs to find the IP address of everyone who is reading this thread, unless you've disabled automatic image loading.

[horngeek]

Actually, no. That image is hosted elsewhere, or it would only display when you were on the internets.

[kamikasei]

Actually, no. That image is hosted elsewhere, or it would only display when you were on the internets.
He said "server", not "personal machine". Not everyone has to use hosting entirely controlled by others to put their own stuff on the net.

[Yora]

From what I've seen in the last days, it doesn't look bad.
As long as examples and tropes aren't removed because someone could be offended by a bad word, there's nothing that would really bother me.

But even if, there's really nothing they can do against it. This page is huge and google ads is about the only way it can be payed for. It's not as if they have much of a choice. Given the circumstances, I think they handle it pretty well.

[Tirian]

Actually, no. That image is hosted elsewhere, or it would only display when you were on the internets.

This is not a perfect example, because that picture is in fact hosted on my ISP and so far as I know I cannot access the server logs. However, if for some reason you were interested in getting a list of IP addresses, it isn't all that extraordinary an effort to configure your own personal web server that would do everything a corporate server does (except for the reduced volume and speed), and you would know exactly who and where all your traffic was coming from.

And that's not something worth keeping you up at night. It's like real addresses; even if someone knows where you live, they can't walk into your house and take your stuff because you've locked the door and there are police patrolling your neighborhood and things of that sort.

[Lord Seth]

Your IP address is not a secret.There's a difference between an IP address being able to be found out but taking some effort and it being listed right there for all to see.

[Psyren]

Yes, but, last time I checked, nothing in there had anything particularly NSFW. Except for the pic on Naughty Tentacles, perhaps. Unless I have a looser definition of NSFW than most people. Which is quite likely.

However tight or loose ours are, Google's definition is the only one that matters in this instance.

[TheLaughingMan]

Is it just me, or have tropers gotten really boring recently? I mean, there's the CMoA/CMoF/CMoH thing, alongside the very great possibility of changing "You Fail X Forever" to "X Flub" because the current name might hurt someone's feelings.

On Google: **** you and your censorship. :smallwink::smalltongue:

[alchemyprime]

*cough*Firefoxadblocker*cough*

*cough*Chromehasonetoo*cough*

[Psyren]

On Google: **** you and your censorship. :smallwink::smalltongue:

He who pays the tropers, calls the tune.

[BRC]

Is it just me, or have tropers gotten really boring recently? I mean, there's the CMoA/CMoF/CMoH thing, alongside the very great possibility of changing "You Fail X Forever" to "X Flub" because the current name might hurt someone's feelings.

On Google: **** you and your censorship. :smallwink::smalltongue:

What "CMoA/CMoF/CMoH" thing?

My main problem with TVtropes is what I call "Magnificent Bastard Syndrome" that likes to affect certain trope pages. A Trope with a specific meaning is identified as being a good thing for a work to have. Then, people flood the page with examples of their favorite characters, whether or not said characters actually fit the trope, simply because they like the character. Magnificent Bastard isn't the only trope that this happens to, but it's a good example.
Frequently, any character who a contributer liked and, at some point manipulated or tricked any other character, no matter how simple the manipulation or the outcome, is deemed a "Magnificent Bastard".
Sometimes they don't even bother having them do somthing Magnificent Bastard-esque, Example


Dr. Horrible a.k.a Billy of Dr Horribles Sing A Long Blog isn't an example for most of the film, but he becomes a magnificent bastard in the climax, where he laughs evily while freezing his enemy Captain Hammer at a public event and then terrifies the audience while singing and dancing (it is a musical, but still).

Now, I love Dr Horrible. I think it's amazing. However, how does "Freezing the enemy, laughing, then doing a musical number" equate to "A character defined by their ability to manipulate people and situations to their advantage".
Admittedly, the Magnificent Bastard trope itself is kind of poorly defined, being basically "Chessmaster + Style + Awesome".
I don't know, it's just a pet peeve type thing.

[Psyren]

What "CMoA/CMoF/CMoH" thing?

Crowning Moment of Awesome/Funny/Heartwarming I believe.

[TheLaughingMan]

Crowning Moment of Awesome/Funny/Heartwarming I believe.

"Moments of Awesome"/"Funny Moments"/"Heartwarming Moments" I believe. :smallannoyed:

[Dirk Anger]

"Moments of Awesome"/"Funny Moments"/"Heartwarming Moments" I believe. :smallannoyed:

Oh come on, maybe if the examples had stayed 'crowning' the old name would have made sense but the deluge of examples that didn't fit necessitated the name change.

[Rockphed]

It's a wiki. If you don't like it, do something about it. I have, personally, deleted several large chunks of articles. Actually, my response when I find a bad article is to delete everything that doesn't justify its existence. I figure if it really does fit the trope, then somebody who cares enough to explain how will come along and do a proper job of explaining.

[Avilan the Grey]

Oh come on, maybe if the examples had stayed 'crowning' the old name would have made sense but the deluge of examples that didn't fit necessitated the name change.

Exactly. The pages has drowned in "Crowning moments" that are of the "walked across the road" or "had two people laughing in the theatre of 100". Basically there are too many really lousy examples on those pages to call them "CMoA" anymore.

[Evil DM Mark3]

And now the search function has been taken down.

[Lord_Gareth]

WHY is the Search function down?

[Evil DM Mark3]

Google runs it.

[Prime32]

Meh, all you have to do is put site:tvtropes.org into Google along with your terms, and you'll get the same thing.

[Turalisj]

Still.... It's a pain in the ass to do. And this does not bode well for the future of TVTropes.

[Jade_Tarem]

Removing the search bar was an exceedingly bad move. It's poor interface design, especially compared to what was there before.

[Tavar]

I don't think it's permanent. Just until the difficulties with Google are sorted out.

[Evil DM Mark3]

It isn't. As soon as Google is cool with them again they will reimplement all the features, including search. Until then there is the old title search tool, in the tools options on the far left, but that is far inferior.

[Cleverdan22]

Yeah, I guess that didn't take too long, because the search is back.

[Evil DM Mark3]

Nope, that is a temporary patch. The risk of loosing that lovely add money is still there.

[Katana_Geldar]

Yesterday it was a Bing search bar and now it's back to google