Ghost technology, community world building project

[akma]

The world is the same as our world, but a technological breakthrough heppened - someone invented a machine that allowed people to talk with ghosts. At first, it wasn`t believed, but after it was proved to be right and the technology became available to the masses, it caused great change in the world. Besides the social effects, it solved many historical mysterious, and made technology advance faster – besides the living scientists, the dead ones would help too. Ghost related technology advanced. Machines that allowed to see ghosts were made, and machines that allowed ghosts to effect the physical world. Eventully, ghost related technology got used for armies (not just spies, but also ghosts with guns)
Weapons that ghosts could use were developed, and anti ghost weapons too. The first ones that held that technologies conquered big areas quickely.
Where eventully that technology would lead to is hard to determine. Since other technologies would advance faster in the same time, it could lead to very wierd combinations (robots controlod by ghosts, enslaving souls then putting them in geneticlly improved workers etc). Or it could be done that only ghost technology will advance but the rest will be as today technology (maybe the technology advanced but the starting point was the nineteenth century)
I haven`t decided how the afterworld will look like, but I would prefer if all the current theories would be wrong.
Possible things that could be done with the technology:
1. Destroying souls.
2. Creating souls artificially.
3. Ressuraction.
4. Pulling a soul out of a body (not just for killing someone, but for out of body experience too(
5. Torturing souls.
6. Altering souls.
7. Body swap.
8. Imprisoning souls.
9. Anti ghost/soul security systems.
10. Putting souls into stasis.
11. Shifting ghost matter to physical matter and the other way around.
12. Creating objects that ghosts could use.
13. Drugs for ghosts, or for the soul.
14. Personality scanners, that scan souls and tell things about it`s personellity. Better if they would be unreliable.
Things that need to be decided:
A. How will the afterworld look like.
B. How much will the technology be advanced, including other technologies.
C. Finding a fitting game system.

[The_Admiral]

OOo steampunk ghostbusters

[Pyre_Born]

What tech level are you looking for? Are we talking Magitek, Steampunk, Space Opera.

I'm still working on some stuff over at Life in Hell, and on my wiki, so I'll try my hardest to get some ideas up and help out!

Peace
Pyre

[DragonOfUndeath]

1800s create tech to see ghosts??? count me in!

Earth map or something else? traditional countries like America before the tech? after the tech?

since the Ghosts need to be around for the machine to see them or hear them then the afterlife should be like a plane of sentient undead who can Planeshift. no food needed, ability to go to Earth at will etc.

what happens when ghosts die? go to the traditional Heaven/Hell, D&D Heavens, Oblivion etc.?

[akma]

What tech level are you looking for? Are we talking Magitek, Steampunk, Space Opera.


Ghostpunk?
I think that advanced technology that won`t be ghost/soul related will distract the focus from the ghost technology.


1800s create tech to see ghosts??? count me in!

Earth map or something else? traditional countries like America before the tech? after the tech?

Well, the world should be so much like earth that it seemed like a waste of time creating many countries just so I will have a world that`s almost exectly like earth. So I guess before the technology was discovered the map was how it looked in the 1800s, and then it should be changed a bit becuse of the technology and historical events.



what happens when ghosts die? go to the traditional Heaven/Hell, D&D Heavens, Oblivion etc.?

I haven`t decided.

[IcarusWings]

I'd say, to truly exemplify ghostpunk, some people might actually use ghosts as a power source. So rather than having a gun, you have a gun with a crystal in it that has a ghost trapped inside of it, and you expend the ghost's life force to shoot a ball of the ghost's essence (force damage).
So actually feeding of ghosts' life force to power things. And then a lot of ghosts fight back etc.

[DragonOfUndeath]

I'd say, to truly exemplify ghostpunk, some people might actually use ghosts as a power source. So rather than having a gun, you have a gun with a crystal in it that has a ghost trapped inside of it, and you expend the ghost's life force to shoot a ball of the ghost's essence (force damage).
So actually feeding of ghosts' life force to power things. And then a lot of ghosts fight back etc.

that sounds like a zombie apocalypse except you can trap and use the zombie as a weapon. every one of your casualties become your enemy and EVERY SINGLE DEAD PERSON EVER would be attacking you.

Maybe the tech level could be modern tech with magic on top of it. so you could have Fly spells and airplanes at the same time (not airplanes fueled by Fly spells but the actual scientific airplanes)

[zyborg]

Here's a question: what happens when you 'kill' a ghost?

[Shyftir]

Might I suggest you read L.E. Modesitt's "Ghost" series. It might prove useful to you when it comes to how the world would be shaped politically if ghost phenomenon was accepted science.

The books involved are:
Of Tangible Ghosts
Ghost of the Revelator
Ghost of the White Nights

The series is sometimes called, Ghosts of Columbia.

[akma]

Here's a question: what happens when you 'kill' a ghost?

You destroy it forever.



Maybe the tech level could be modern tech with magic on top of it. so you could have Fly spells and airplanes at the same time (not airplanes fueled by Fly spells but the actual scientific airplanes)

The whole point was the scientifical view, without magic.

[Pyre_Born]

You destroy it forever.


First off, sorry it's been a while since I've posted :smallredface:

Secondly, would the fact that ghosts being destroyed forever lead to a lot of scientific experimentation on lengthening life?

Also, going with the scientific over magic aspect, should ghosts have some discernible real world aspect to them, something like an electromagnetic field that they give off. This could be a reason for someone to try and harness them for power. Using the ghosts own "power" to their benefit, pretty much an ethereal battery?

Just some thoughts

Peace,
Pyre

[akma]

Secondly, would the fact that ghosts being destroyed forever lead to a lot of scientific experimentation on lengthening life?


Makes sense, but if souls could be transported to a diffrent body, then it would make life lengthing technologies a bit redundent.



Also, going with the scientific over magic aspect, should ghosts have some discernible real world aspect to them, something like an electromagnetic field that they give off. This could be a reason for someone to try and harness them for power. Using the ghosts own "power" to their benefit, pretty much an ethereal battery?


I could see it now - a power company that enslaves ghosts for cheap electricity.

[Shpadoinkle]

I could see it now - a power company that enslaves ghosts for cheap electricity.

Or maybe ghosts could volunteer to "work" at a power plant in exchange for... well, whatever the hell a ghost might want.

Also, the definite existence of ghosts and some kind of afterlife would probably cause a big shift in the way people think about life and death. I mean, death is very obviously not the end of life, it's a transition, like moving. it's a really BIG transition, like moving to a country on the other side of the world, whose language you don't speak a single word of, so it's still something to be apprehensive about, but not so much terrified.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Possible things that could be done with the technology:
1. Destroying souls.
2. Creating souls artificially.
3. Ressuraction.
4. Pulling a soul out of a body (not just for killing someone, but for out of body experience too(
5. Torturing souls.
6. Altering souls.
7. Body swap.
8. Imprisoning souls.
9. Anti ghost/soul security systems.
10. Putting souls into stasis.
11. Shifting ghost matter to physical matter and the other way around.
12. Creating objects that ghosts could use.
13. Drugs for ghosts, or for the soul.
14. Personality scanners, that scan souls and tell things about it`s personellity. Better if they would be unreliable.


Why not all of them?

[Pyre_Born]

Should people be able to tell who a ghost was in life? I'm thinking that a school trip to a power plant run on ghosts might scar someone when they see grandma's ghost hooked up to the generator.

Little Kid: Grandma is that really you
*Sound of Electricity* Ghost lights up like a lightbulb
Little Kid: Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah GRANDMA!!!!!!

Not saying it'd necessarily hurt the ghost, but the average person would probably be freaked out seeing someone they knew in life used as a battery.

This could also lead to something akin to Ghost Rights/Ghost PETA
"No Ghost squirrels were harmed in the generation of your electricity"

Also, for the creation of souls, soul swapping, things like that. I could see Artificial ghosts being considered nothing but slave labor, and body swapping leading to ghost slavery too, let us put your soul in a younger body, when in reality they steal your spirit for a large business.

Peace,
Pyre

Note to any Ghost PETA members, this post was made using fossil fuels, not ghost fuels, no need for a lawsuit :smallbiggrin:

[Renrik]

Speaking of potential economic utilization of the ghosts, consider their effect on employment. If ghosts can interact with machines, they can work. If they can work, but don't require food or sleep, they can work for much, much lower wages than the human laborers.

They wouldn't be working for nothing, of course- why would they? Even if other ghosts were, which nobody would be willing to, they'd just not work- they're ghosts, doesn't matter to them. But, I can imagine a good many ghosts willing to work for just some entertainment or some other price below human wages.

Now, if this was set in the 1800s, or the breakthrough happened in the 1800s, you'd probably have a great deal of radical left activism from the socialists, communists, and anarchists still going on. Perhaps they'd try to unionize the ghosts, while other trade unionists would oppose it. Workers displaced by ghosts may hate them intensely.

Also, harnessing ghost power doesn't make sense from a thermodynamic standpoint. The conservation of energy demands that they can't just keep spontaneously producing enough energy. I don't think that would work. If it did, you could use anything that currently has an electromagnetic field around it and make a perpetual motion machine, and you can't.

So, when in the 1800s did this happen? Important to figure out how it effects the world. Maybe, what, 1850s is when the basic stuff started getting invented, maybe ghost weapons appear around the time WW1 would normally happen (and probably still will happen), and then from there every sense of historical resemblance starts falling apart?

I wonder how this would effect the Russian Revolution. You'd have a Tsarist army with some access to ghost tech, but not as much as the Germans, who'd be beating them back even more than they did in real life (hell, Germany might actually win the war if they can get Russia beaten and manage to break the blockade), and you'd have Bolsheviks and their friends with much less ghost tech. They'd still probably be able to beat the White Army, especially if the Allied Intervention is postponed by Germany. The real interesting thing, though, would be to see how Marx, Engels, and other early Communists, as ghosts, would react to Bolshevism and Lenin, and how Lenin would react to the power struggle between Stalin and Trotsky after his death.

[Renrik]

Also, do animals get ghosts?

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

There should be a dangerous and highly addictive drug made from souls.
Dealers of this drug capture ghosts and turn them into the drug.

[akma]

Why not all of them?

No reason to not include all the technologies, but maybe someone would have some objection to some of the technologies.
For exemple, normally I hate body swaping and ressurections (espically constant ressurections), but I feel it fits this world.



Also, the definite existence of ghosts and some kind of afterlife would probably cause a big shift in the way people think about life and death. I mean, death is very obviously not the end of life, it's a transition, like moving. it's a really BIG transition, like moving to a country on the other side of the world, whose language you don't speak a single word of, so it's still something to be apprehensive about, but not so much terrified.

Yes, it would alter society and effect religions. Unfortunatly, we can`t disscuss how that would effect religions becuse that would break forum rules.
It would complicate murders - murderers will have to hide their identity from the victim too.
And think of the awkwardness of remarried widows.


Should people be able to tell who a ghost was in life?.


If every ghost would be described as very pale, white and incorporal looking it would be a little dull, so yes.



This could also lead to something akin to Ghost Rights/Ghost PETA
"No Ghost squirrels were harmed in the generation of your electricity"


It would be much stronger then normal PETA, since it`s much easier to sympthisaze with a person who died then an animal.



Also, for the creation of souls, soul swapping, things like that. I could see Artificial ghosts being considered nothing but slave labor, and body swapping leading to ghost slavery too, let us put your soul in a younger body, when in reality they steal your spirit for a large business.


I have a feeling the setting is going to get a lot more cyberpunk then I originally imagined. Oh, and I like the idea.


Speaking of potential economic utilization of the ghosts, consider their effect on employment. If ghosts can interact with machines, they can work. If they can work, but don't require food or sleep, they can work for much, much lower wages than the human laborers.

They wouldn't be working for nothing, of course- why would they? Even if other ghosts were, which nobody would be willing to, they'd just not work- they're ghosts, doesn't matter to them. But, I can imagine a good many ghosts willing to work for just some entertainment or some other price below human wages.

They could work so that their living relatives will have money.
Also, ghosts might want to buy "toys" that they could play with.



Now, if this was set in the 1800s, or the breakthrough happened in the 1800s, you'd probably have a great deal of radical left activism from the socialists, communists, and anarchists still going on. Perhaps they'd try to unionize the ghosts, while other trade unionists would oppose it. Workers displaced by ghosts may hate them intensely.

This made me imagine riots with masses holding signs saying: "Ghosts should stay dead" "Leave the living alone" and stuff like that.



Also, harnessing ghost power doesn't make sense from a thermodynamic standpoint. The conservation of energy demands that they can't just keep spontaneously producing enough energy. I don't think that would work. If it did, you could use anything that currently has an electromagnetic field around it and make a perpetual motion machine, and you can't.

They could make a diffrent kind of energy - ghost energy.



So, when in the 1800s did this happen? Important to figure out how it effects the world. Maybe, what, 1850s is when the basic stuff started getting invented, maybe ghost weapons appear around the time WW1 would normally happen (and probably still will happen), and then from there every sense of historical resemblance starts falling apart?

I like the idea of ghost trench wars.
And from which country will the one that invented the technology that enabled to speak to ghosts came from? It`s logical that in that region the ghost technology would be the most advanced, which will effect history greatly. Also, there should be a reason why the inventer wasn`t witch hunted.



I wonder how this would effect the Russian Revolution. You'd have a Tsarist army with some access to ghost tech, but not as much as the Germans, who'd be beating them back even more than they did in real life (hell, Germany might actually win the war if they can get Russia beaten and manage to break the blockade), and you'd have Bolsheviks and their friends with much less ghost tech. They'd still probably be able to beat the White Army, especially if the Allied Intervention is postponed by Germany. The real interesting thing, though, would be to see how Marx, Engels, and other early Communists, as ghosts, would react to Bolshevism and Lenin, and how Lenin would react to the power struggle between Stalin and Trotsky after his death.

Hard to say, but why did you decide that the germans will get more ghost tech then the russians?


Also, do animals get ghosts?

That would cause a lot of mess. There would be a lot more talks about the morality of eating meat. So yes.


There should be a dangerous and highly addictive drug made from souls.
Dealers of this drug capture ghosts and turn them into the drug.

Ok, what would be it`s effect?
And already in another thread I`m dealing with emotion based drugs, so I want some effect that isn`t emotionel.

[Pyre_Born]

No reason to not include all the technologies, but maybe someone would have some objection to some of the technologies.
For exemple, normally I hate body swaping and ressurections (espically constant ressurections), but I feel it fits this world.

I think they could all fit, but I've always enjoyed having a major price for body swapping and resurrection .



Yes, it would alter society and effect religions. Unfortunatly, we can`t disscuss how that would effect religions becuse that would break forum rules.
It would complicate murders - murderers will have to hide their identity from the victim too.
And think of the awkwardness of remarried widows.

Yeah religions are always a no go, even if you try to skim the line it's risky when it comes to that section of life.

I really like the idea of hiding from your victim, or the complications of widowed people



If every ghost would be described as very pale, white and incorporal looking it would be a little dull, so yes.

Alright, I figured, just making sure



It would be much stronger then normal PETA, since it`s much easier to sympthisaze with a person who died then an animal.

It could get very violent for opposing sides when it comes to ethics of ghosts I'd think



This made me imagine riots with masses holding signs saying: "Ghosts should stay dead" "Leave the living alone" and stuff like that.

I can definitely see that, it would also lead to finding ways to keep ghosts away from you, because I know I'd be scared if I protested against ghosts not knowing if they could get to my family or not.



They could make a diffrent kind of energy - ghost energy.

Yeah some type of new energy would be best, electromagnetics was the only thing that popped into my head...too many ghost hunting shows :p



I like the idea of ghost trench wars.
And from which country will the one that invented the technology that enabled to speak to ghosts came from? It`s logical that in that region the ghost technology would be the most advanced, which will effect history greatly. Also, there should be a reason why the inventer wasn`t witch hunted.

If we go for the late 1800's we could say that Nikola Tesla while attempting to beat Edison at electricity discovered the ghosts while inadvertently using them for power. Edison could then find the ghosts themselves trying to determine how he did it. Tesla's lab in Colorado Springs could have been a way to bring ghosts into this world instead of the believed reason of wireless electricity?

Sorry I've got a fascination with Tesla, and his inventions and ideas could fit really well with the feel of a Ghostpunk setting.



Hard to say, but why did you decide that the germans will get more ghost tech then the russians?

I'd say in World War I after being humiliated by the Allied Powers (using Tesla's newly discovered technology :smallwink:) Germany secretly works to further ghost tech more than anything else in preparation for future wars. In World War II Germany was known for their scientific insight so their is no reason not to believe that they wouldn't advance ghost tech at the same rate they advanced tech in our world.



That would cause a lot of mess. There would be a lot more talks about the morality of eating meat. So yes.

All I can see is a ghost turkey sitting by the dinning room table on Thanksgiving with "puppy-dog" eyes while the family is eating, trying to guilt trip them :smalltongue:



Ok, what would be it`s effect?
And already in another thread I`m dealing with emotion based drugs, so I want some effect that isn`t emotionel.

I could see the drug aspect, the d20 rules for drugs aren't OGL, so once we've got Phasma fleshed out and workable, you can use the basic rules over here. I have no clue what effects would come from it...maybe an ethereal quality with a chance of losing your material body if you die from withdrawals?

Peace,
Pyre

[akma]

I think they could all fit, but I've always enjoyed having a major price for body swapping and resurrection


Ressurection will require finding a body, which means eithar kickings the original soul out of the body or body sharing, both problamatic.



It could get very violent for opposing sides when it comes to ethics of ghosts I'd think

Especially when weapons usable by ghosts would be available.



I can definitely see that, it would also lead to finding ways to keep ghosts away from you, because I know I'd be scared if I protested against ghosts not knowing if they could get to my family or not.


Ghost reppelent could get pricy.



Yeah some type of new energy would be best, electromagnetics was the only thing that popped into my head...too many ghost hunting shows :p

Just becuse of that remark the ghostbusters theme song is playing in my head right now.



If we go for the late 1800's we could say that Nikola Tesla while attempting to beat Edison at electricity discovered the ghosts while inadvertently using them for power. Edison could then find the ghosts themselves trying to determine how he did it. Tesla's lab in Colorado Springs could have been a way to bring ghosts into this world instead of the believed reason of wireless electricity?

Sorry I've got a fascination with Tesla, and his inventions and ideas could fit really well with the feel of a Ghostpunk setting.


But wouldn`t discovering ghosts would make them stop working on electricity?
And I know Edison tried to make a phone from which calling the dead would be possible.



I'd say in World War I after being humiliated by the Allied Powers (using Tesla's newly discovered technology :smallwink:) Germany secretly works to further ghost tech more than anything else in preparation for future wars. In World War II Germany was known for their scientific insight so their is no reason not to believe that they wouldn't advance ghost tech at the same rate they advanced tech in our world.


I don`t realy want to include world war 2.



All I can see is a ghost turkey sitting by the dinning room table on Thanksgiving with "puppy-dog" eyes while the family is eating, trying to guilt trip them :smalltongue:


And one of the people could say: "He is already dead, not eating him won`t matter."



I could see the drug aspect, the d20 rules for drugs aren't OGL, so once we've got Phasma fleshed out and workable, you can use the basic rules over here. I have no clue what effects would come from it...maybe an ethereal quality with a chance of losing your material body if you die from withdrawals?


Out of body experience, and if you overdose, you are filled with too much ghost energy which clones you soul, and a ghost identical to you is created.

[Renrik]

I gave Germany more ghost tech than Russia because Russia, up until the Revolution (and, arguably, after it), was a technological and social backwater, late to industrialize. The discovery of ghosts wouldn't be enough to get them to catch up with central Europe, especially since, of all the cool inventor ghosts, more would be in central Europe than in Russia- Russia didn't have so many cool inventors during that period.

Also, how far back do ghosts go? Like, could Socrates and Plato and Napoleon all have ghosts roaming the earth today? What about Adam Smith, or John Locke, or Marx?

[Pyre_Born]

But wouldn`t discovering ghosts would make them stop working on electricity?
And I know Edison tried to make a phone from which calling the dead would be possible.

Yeah, that would put a halt to the advancement in that area for the most part, leaving both groups to either adapt to the ghost tech or fall out of the advancement race.

As for Edison, I believe it was him that tried making the Ghost phone



I don`t realy want to include world war 2.

I figured, I kind of jumped ahead in history for some reason :p



Out of body experience, and if you overdose, you are filled with too much ghost energy which clones you soul, and a ghost identical to you is created.
That'd be interesting to say the least, especially the legal repercussions from having a copy of yourself (albeit a ghost copy). Do you own it? Can it use your identity? Is it its own individual?

Peace,
Pyre

[akma]

Also, how far back do ghosts go??

Forever, but it would be harder to find the earlier ones.


Yeah, that would put a halt to the advancement in that area for the most part, leaving both groups to either adapt to the ghost tech or fall out of the advancement race.

Which would mean that eithar electricity would be less advanced, or that someone else would work on it.



That'd be interesting to say the least, especially the legal repercussions from having a copy of yourself (albeit a ghost copy). Do you own it? Can it use your identity? Is it its own individual?


Well, to claim legal rights one of them would have to reveal they used drugs. So it`s likely one will extort the other, depends on the personelity.
Both would be sentient beings which could be easily called humans, so I guess they both deserve legal rights. Exect rights may vary according to countries.
Also, someone could make an army of ghosts by overdosing repeatedly.

[Pyre_Born]

Which would mean that eithar electricity would be less advanced, or that someone else would work on it.

More than likely the Ghost rights groups would try to find an alternate electrical system to stop the use of ghosts as fuel.



Well, to claim legal rights one of them would have to reveal they used drugs. So it`s likely one will extort the other, depends on the personelity.
Both would be sentient beings which could be easily called humans, so I guess they both deserve legal rights. Exect rights may vary according to countries.
Also, someone could make an army of ghosts by overdosing repeatedly.
I like the extortion ideas a lot. AS for the overdosing army, that brings up an idea of a small country finding a way to control and create ghosts, turning most of their population into ghosts to cut down on production costs.

Peace,
Pyre

[akma]

More than likely the Ghost rights groups would try to find an alternate electrical system to stop the use of ghosts as fuel.

The ghosts won`t necceserly be used to make electricity, they could be "mined" for ghost energy, which would be completly diffrent.
Or it could just be electricity.



I like the extortion ideas a lot. AS for the overdosing army, that brings up an idea of a small country finding a way to control and create ghosts, turning most of their population into ghosts to cut down on production costs.


A ghost country, where living humanss flee from ghostly maruaders.