souls: what are they good for? [3.5]

[randomhero00]

I've got an upcoming situation where a lich made me and can command me (but I mostly have free will). I plan to try to kill him and take his place as head hancho anyways. So I need ways to store my soul, resist control, capture his soul, use his soul and others, etc. Anything on souls would be useful basically. Besides items, I'm not a crafter.

I've never done the undead thing or the soul/evil trade thing so I have no idea what I'm getting into.

[hamishspence]

Crafting is the main benefit though.

BoVD has the "soul-eater" monstrous class- but mostly it just drains energy, rules-wise.

it also has rules for using a soul as a spell material component.

Complete Divine lists a few things that can destroy souls (Sphere of Annihilation is one)

[Dusk Eclipse]

Sell it to an evil outsider?... get a Faustian Pact (rules on Fiendsih Codex II), make sure that the pact reads something like

"we the diabolical contractors will deliver XXXXX in exchange of a soul" instead of "we the diabolical contractors will deliver XXXXX in exchange of your soul"

that way, when they ask for the payment you can give the captured lich soul.

[hamishspence]

I remember a folklore tale where the pact was verbal "X in exchange for my soul"

and when the fiend turns up to demand it, the person presents the sole of his shoe.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I remember a folklore tale where the pact was verbal "X in exchange for my soul"

and when the fiend turns up to demand it, the person presents the sole of his shoe.

Damn.... that pun doesn't work in spanish >.< otherwise I definetly would try ti.

[randomhero00]

Oh sorry! Totally forgot to mention that its a demigod. So it has like divine rank 0 or something. Does that change anything?

[hamishspence]

Damn.... that pun doesn't work in spanish >.< otherwise I definetly would try ti.

I think another variant involved presenting a flatfish bought earlier- of the species that is usually called in English "a sole".

[subject42]

Can't you boost your caster level with souls somehow?

[hamishspence]

Yup- that's the aforementioned BoVD soul as material component.

It doesn't actually boost your caster level proper- what it does is give you a +10 profane bonus to caster level checks for overcoming spell resistance.

That's if it's in a receptacle of some kind, like a gem.

If it's a Larva (petitioner of Hades), instead you get +2 to Saving throw DC.

There's also a nasty +3 metamagic feat Reaping Spell in Champions of Ruin, described as "devouring the soul of any creature killed by it"

What it does is make raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection not work, and true resurrection only have a 50% chance of working.

This might be more like the barghest ability though- it doesn't destroy the whole soul- it only very badly damages it.

[Ozymandias9]

What you're looking for is almost entirely in BoVD.

Specifically, you might want to look into
Imprison Soul (Cleric 7)
Soul Shackles (W/S 5)
Dark Altar Stone (Wondrous Item)

[hamishspence]

Imprison Soul is updated in Heroes of Horror.

Another Champions of Ruin example- the epic spell Aumvor's Soulshatter- which blasts the soul of the target out of the body and sends it to the afterlife.

The body is now dormant but still alive- it can be possessed or dominated, and in either case, it's abilities and skills (that aren't based on Str, Dex, or Con) are based on yours.

[randomhero00]

Does anyone use house rules that make souls more useful? Seems like they should be. Not sure how exactly though. But absorbing a divine/god soul should let you attain the rank of divinity.

[hamishspence]

Deities & Demigods leaves the rules for ascending to divinity undefined- so it could work if the DM agrees.

There's quite a few soul-imprisoning monsters:

Epic Handbook: Demilich
MM III: Death Giant
Magic of Incarnum: Souleater.

The souleater doesn't just imprison souls, it consumes them, mkaing them harder to resurrect.

Magic of Incarnum is a good source for "soul-energy as magic" but it's not specific souls mostly, it's "ambient soul energy" or "pre-incarnated souls"- and using the energy does not destroy it- it simply holds it for a while.

[randomhero00]

I'm looking more for a way to sacrifice the soul to gain some sort of permanent power based on the soul. Like 1/day SLAs.

[Diarmuid]

Without being a caster, you're really not going to have much luck unless you find a magic item that specifically does what you're looking for it to do. And unless your DM then makes that item available to you...well you get the idea.

[Coidzor]

There's some homebrew from frank and k's tome of necromancy (http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=34248) that you might find interesting if you're bringing homebrew in. A thief and merchant of souls, for one.

[Chrono22]

Well, I houserule that souls can always be used in place of the expensive material components of spells.
A soul has a value that is determined by the amount of experience it has accumulated; most souls are nearly worthless. For every point of experience a soul possesses, increase its hypothetical GP value by 5. Some types of souls are more valuable to particular beings. Particularly evil beings might desire to use the souls of paladins, for instance. When this is the case, double the value listed by the table below.

{table=head]Level|Value (gp)
1|0
2|5,000
3|15,000
4|30,000
5|50,000
6|75,000
7|105,000
8|140,000
9|180,000
10|225,000
11|275,000
12|330,000
13|390,000
14|455,000
15|525,000
16|600,000
17|680,000
18|765,000
19|855,000
20|950,000[/table]

With this gp/exp conversion, it wouldn't be hard to design some "permanent" magical effects like incarnum, using the same pricing schemes.
Keep in mind this shows the "market price" of souls. You'd sell them for half value, as usual.

[Diarmuid]

Chrono, in your homebrew how are you/your pc's harnassing/containing/expending these souls?

[hamishspence]

If the Big Bad is an Elder Evil (so uses the rules from the splatbook Elder Evils) it can have the malefic property True Death- it creates a field with a minimum radius of 10 miles, and when anything dies within this radius, the soul dies with the body- making it impossible to bring back.

Elder evils are comparable in abilities in other ways, to abominations from Epic Handbook. And abominations (if you have Deities & Demigods) count as 0th level deities.

So if you make the Big Bad an elder evil instead of a demigod, it can have the very nasty Elder Evil power.


Without being a caster, you're really not going to have much luck unless you find a magic item that specifically does what you're looking for it to do. And unless your DM then makes that item available to you...well you get the idea.

For a non-caster soul-using power- from Elder Evils, is the Vile feat Harvester of Souls- requires BAB +11. Whenever you kill something with a coup de grace, you "destroy their soul"- making it impossible to resurrect without Wish or Miracle, until you are dead.

You gain 2 temporary hit points per HD of the creature you have slain- these last 1 hour.

This may combine well with feats that allow you to use coup de grace more quickly- the Death Blow feat in Complete Adventurer allows you to use it as a standard action.

It doesn't fit the "permanent" suggestion though- since the benefit is only temporary.

[randomhero00]

It just seems like there should be a soul sucker vampire equivalent for high levels.

[Diarmuid]

I think you're SoL unless you and your DM homebrew something.

[hamishspence]

It just seems like there should be a soul sucker vampire equivalent for high levels.

There's quite a few soul-sucking monsters- though they usually don't get much from a soul.

[Chrono22]

Chrono, in your homebrew how are you/your pc's harnassing/containing/expending these souls?
Well, the pricing isn't homebrew. It's right out of the PHB, under "goods and services". The basic assumption is any good or service listed in the PHB is listed at market value. This means that 1 exp = gp. Just extrapolate that to levels and voila.
Most PCs don't go this route, but here's the nitty gritty:
First you need some way to harness / hold a soul to prevent it from passing on. Circles of protection work somewhat. I rule that when a soul is passing on to become a petitioner, it is being "called", thus qualifying it as a calling effect. From there, it's up to the PC to use, bind, or sell the soul within the duration. The special weapon material known as Thinaun and other spells are also good for binding souls.
Second, you need someone to sell / harness the power. Spellcasters can do this somewhat, by binding the soul into the chakras of a magical item (the soul replaces the material costs of the item) or a spell (the soul replaces the exp and material costs, but not the focus). Creating a magic item via soulbinding allows you to produce them at a much lower gp cost... but there are some long term side effects to doing so (ie cursed items). Evil outsiders aren't as interested in mortal souls as most stories make them out to be. Weak mortal souls are common enough, that you probably aren't going to find any evil outsiders in the market for lower level ones. High level souls, however, are at a premium and are highly sought after for the aforementioned reasons.
Keep in mind that selling/using souls has its own set of risks. Good aligned creatures frown on it, and doing it too much can result in a bounty or worse.

So to reiterate, a caster with access to magic circle against [alignment] can prevent a soul from passing into the afterlife by confining it within the circle. Then he can use that soul to replace the exp costs of casting, material components, or he can use it to create magical items. Magical items created this way usually suffer from drawbacks to full blown curses, and sometimes become sentient.