PDA

View Full Version : Abilities/Attributes: What do you like?



randomhero00
2010-10-29, 11:55 AM
I'm making a game (that will probably never be finished but still.) And would like opinions on abilities/attributes (str, dex, con, etc).

Are there any you think shouldn't be in there? Like for me, I dislike charisma being in there (3.5), not very useful compared to other attributes and it should be based more on the roleplay of the character.

Also how many do you like? DnD has 6 but I don't like that number. Personally I like 3, 5, or 10. But I'm not sure.

The only thing you need to know about the game is that its rules lite. Made like the metric system and its supposed to be intuitive.

DukeofDellot
2010-10-29, 12:24 PM
Personally, I prefer my games to have each stat important for each character archtype. One such example from a game I was designing (never made it off the concept board, but maybe someday).

Fitness-Determines the Strength and Endurance of a character.
Agility-Determines the Quickness and Precision of a character
Intuition-Determines the Awareness and Mental Capacity of a character.

In general, Fitness gives HP, Agility determines initiative and dodge rate, and Intuition keeps the character from being stuck up upon and gives more skills. The Fighter's Weapon Damage is based on Fitness, accuracy is Agility, and Intuition determines how many special attacks he may learn. The Thief's Fitness allows him to make clean getaways through long dashes, Agility allows him to balance and slide in tight spaces, and Intuition helps him pick locks and spot worth while targets. The Mage's Fitness determines how many spells he can cast until he's exhausted, Agility keeps him from dying due to his lesser HP total, and Intuition let's him learn more spells.

I dislike Dump stats. If you have a low stat somewhere it should hurt. On that note I dislike having to roll stats. Rolling should wait until the game starts.

Kurald Galain
2010-10-29, 12:48 PM
I'm really fond of the Whitewolf system. It is quite elegant:

{table]Type|Power|Finesse|Resistance
Physical|Strength|Agility|Stamina
Mental|Intelligence|Wits|Willpower
Social|Charisma|Manipulation|Composure
[/table]

The only thing it's missing imho is a perception attribute.

arrowhen
2010-10-29, 01:09 PM
Stats are the interface between a character concept and the game's resolution mechanics. Decide what the game *needs* to know, numerically, about every character; those are your attributes.

BridgeCity
2010-10-29, 01:17 PM
. . . I dislike charisma being in there (3.5), not very useful compared to other attributes and it should be based more on the roleplay of the character . . .

Be careful with that.

If one of your players wants to make a very charismatic character, it is unfair to expect them to carry the weight of providing everything through their own role playing ability. When I play a warrior whose main job is hitting people hard with a weapon, my DM does not take into account my own ability at doing this in real life, he takes into account my characters ability based on his strength score.

So it is quite unfair to expect, say for instance, a person playing an evangelicist, whose character relies on diplomacy and charasima based checks, to roleplay everything and to not allow them to make charisma roles with their dice. Their character would be better than the player at making inspiring speeches (just like my barbarian is better at fighting than I am) and the player should not suffer because of that.

I've always been a fan of my current DM's system, which is to have roles for gather information, bluff, diplomacy, intimidate etc. and then offer circumstance bonuses based on what the player decides they will say. This way the character is not hindered by having a less charismatic player, and the player is still encouraged to participate in the role-playing of their character.

randomhero00
2010-10-29, 01:19 PM
I'm really fond of the Whitewolf system. It is quite elegant:

{table]Type|Power|Finesse|Resistance
Physical|Strength|Agility|Stamina
Mental|Intelligence|Wits|Willpower
Social|Charisma|Manipulation|Composure
[/table]

The only thing it's missing imho is a perception attribute.

Wouldn't perception be more of a skill? I know IRL cops have to go through a lot of training to spot things.

BridgeCity
2010-10-29, 01:26 PM
Wouldn't perception be more of a skill? I know IRL cops have to go through a lot of training to spot things.

I think he was saying there needs to be an attribute that would govern the perception skills.

randomhero00
2010-10-29, 01:31 PM
I think he was saying there needs to be an attribute that would govern the perception skills.

Wouldn't wits work well?

Yuki Akuma
2010-10-29, 01:31 PM
I think he was saying there needs to be an attribute that would govern the perception skills.

In WoD, I think that's Wits.

Roog
2010-10-29, 01:36 PM
So it is quite unfair to expect, say for instance, a person playing an evangelicist, whose character relies on diplomacy and charasima based checks, to roleplay everything and to not allow them to make charisma roles with their dice. Their character would be better than the player at making inspiring speeches (just like my barbarian is better at fighting than I am) and the player should not suffer because of that.

How often is a naked Charisma check required?

If you drop Charisma as a stat, then charisma based skills can simply be based on another stat, and the player can still rely on dice rolls just as much as they do now.

BridgeCity
2010-10-29, 01:38 PM
How often is a naked Charisma check required?

If you drop Charisma as a stat, then charisma based skills can simply be based on another stat, and the player can still rely on dice rolls just as much as they do now.

If you drop charisma as a stat, you just have to add another one to take its place in or chose a current one that doesn't really make sense, so there is no real point in doing so.

BridgeCity
2010-10-29, 01:39 PM
Wouldn't wits work well?

I would say so, but I'm not the person who was saying a perception attribute needed to be added.

claypigeons
2010-10-29, 02:02 PM
How often is a naked Charisma check required?

If you drop Charisma as a stat, then charisma based skills can simply be based on another stat, and the player can still rely on dice rolls just as much as they do now.

What about every charisma-based class? Sorcerers, hexblades, paladins, (lol)samurais(lol), wilders, etc.?

A think-y based sorcerer? A wilder that uses instict and intuition to use powers, rather than emotion and passion? What is wild surge, then?

Dropping charisma entirely would require a sizable rewrite of a lot of material, unless you want to shoehorn things into other attributes... but that doesn't really solve your problem. I'd rather keep the clunk. =-(

Kurald Galain
2010-10-29, 02:17 PM
How often is a naked Charisma check required?

Depends who is asking (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0025.html) :smallbiggrin:

grarrrg
2010-10-29, 04:00 PM
What you are looking for does depend on what type of game you have in mind but a very popular route is the Rule of 3
In regards to stats this means either "Mind, Body & Spirit" or "Strength, Speed & Smarts"
The archetypes in an MBS system are "Scientist, Brawler, Wizard", for SSS they are (to steal from Diablo) "Warrior, Rogue, Sorcerer" (adapt flavor as needed).

Rule of 3 can also be adapted into the Rule of 3*2 (see most Final Fantasys), whereby each relevent stat has seperate "Offense" and "Defense" Stats. In an SSS system you might have
Strength / Vitality
Dexterity / Agility
Intelligence / Mentality

Don't forget that you can also do Rule of 3+1 (or Rule of 3*2+1), just add Luck, everybody just loves a weird stat that has no dependable worth.

It is not advisable to to go over 6 total stats (7 with luck). Systems that do usually break them into (2 to 6) "main" stats, and "modifiers".

You can also do a little mix and match, like DnD, under the MBS line of thought, DnD has 2-mind, 3-body, and 1-spirit (which mental is spirit is debatable). Under SSS thinking DnD has 2-Strength, 1-Speed, and 3-Smarts.
The Fallout games like to follow that last breakdown as well, but throw in Luck, just so they can spell SPECIAL and have a kick-ass name for the system.

So my advice is to figure out which Rule of 3 system you like, MBS, or SSS. Double it if you need/want to, and add Luck to taste.