Errata and You (D&D 4e, but all games included)

[Forever Curious]

In the last session of a 4e game I'm running, the party's monk used a daily power called Spinning Leopard Maneuver: an attack that lets him shift his speed and attack each enemy he passes, dealing 3d8+Dex on a hit. Now, this power essentially ended the encounter in one turn, but I was already convinced monks are an awesome class so I didn't question it. Later, I looked up the power on the 4e character builder and saw the damage is only 2d6+Dex, and confirmed that it was changed in the errata.

The question is: how do I handle errata nerfs to my party's powers? Normally I would just let it slide, but I know from experience the power as written is extremely powerful if not "broken". How do you deal with errata in your own play groups?

[Marnath]

Use errata if it's sensible/ I agree with it, or not use it if I like the old version better.

[Diarmuid]

In my group, when something like that happens, it becomes the reason we go looking to the errata. 1 PC shouldnt be trivializing encounters. Bring it up, offer him to take something different if he doesnt like the new rules but state that if he keeps it, he will use the proper rules moving forward.

[Xefas]

Ummm... "Sorry, I didn't know there was an errata for this power, but I looked it up and there is. It now does 2d6+Dex, though, since we weren't aware of the errata, you're free to replace it with an equivalent power if you'd prefer."

[kyoryu]

In the last session of a 4e game I'm running, the party's monk used a daily power called Spinning Leopard Maneuver: an attack that lets him shift his speed and attack each enemy he passes, dealing 3d8+Dex on a hit. Now, this power essentially ended the encounter in one turn, but I was already convinced monks are an awesome class so I didn't question it. Later, I looked up the power on the 4e character builder and saw the damage is only 2d6+Dex, and confirmed that it was changed in the errata.

The question is: how do I handle errata nerfs to my party's powers? Normally I would just let it slide, but I know from experience the power as written is extremely powerful if not "broken". How do you deal with errata in your own play groups?

That should average out to ~18 hp per opponent, assuming 20 dex. The new version is dropped to 12hp - a significant decrease, but not in the OMG NURF level.

Even at level 1, how does that end a fight? Even at level 1, most enemies should have more hp than that - and is it really any more powerful than something like Sleep?

At any rate, I'd point out the errata, say that you agree with the errata and will be using this version. And then give the player the chance to change the ability if they don't want it any more. If their build was heavily centered on this ability, possibly give the player a chance to rework more than just the dailiy power choice.

[Marnath]

That should average out to ~18 hp per opponent, assuming 20 dex. The new version is dropped to 12hp - a significant decrease, but not in the OMG NURF level.

Even at level 1, how does that end a fight? Even at level 1, most enemies should have more hp than that - and is it really any more powerful than something like Sleep?

At any rate, I'd point out the errata, say that you agree with the errata and will be using this version. And then give the player the chance to change the ability if they don't want it any more. If their build was heavily centered on this ability, possibly give the player a chance to rework more than just the dailiy power choice.

:smallconfused: Most CR1 enemies don't have that much hp.

[kyoryu]

:smallconfused: Most CR1 enemies don't have that much hp.

In 4e? In 3.5, sure.

Given that a bone-stock Ranger in 4e can easily put out 2d10+d8 per turn as an at will...

[Forever Curious]

That should average out to ~18 hp per opponent, assuming 20 dex. The new version is dropped to 12hp - a significant decrease, but not in the OMG NURF level.

Even at level 1, how does that end a fight? Even at level 1, most enemies should have more hp than that - and is it really any more powerful than something like Sleep?

At any rate, I'd point out the errata, say that you agree with the errata and will be using this version. And then give the player the chance to change the ability if they don't want it any more. If their build was heavily centered on this ability, possibly give the player a chance to rework more than just the dailiy power choice.

It was probably just the specific scenario: the enemies he attacked had already been weakened by the rest of the party. The total damage was in the vicinity of 105 over 5 enemies, but I'm probably over-reacting to the strength of the power. I just talked to him and he's willing to go with the errata.

[kyoryu]

It was probably just the specific scenario: the enemies he attacked had already been weakened by the rest of the party. The total damage was in the vicinity of 105 over 5 enemies, but I'm probably over-reacting to the strength of the power. I just talked to him and he's willing to go with the errata.

That makes sense. I can easily see that power finishing off a ton of already-weakened enemies. The OP, to me, sounded like it literally wiped out the entire encounter in a single turn, which I wasn't quite grokking.

105hp would be high average for that power, pre-errata. It probably wouldn't even be that overpowered if it targetted AC instead of Reflex.

Glad to hear that he understands the errata and the rationale for it.

[Kurald Galain]

Yeah, 2d6 or 3d8 doesn't make that much of a difference, except at very low level. Characters tend to quickly accumulate static modifiers that make up most of their damage. The real power of this power (heh) lies in the amount of enemies it affects.

I find that most 4E errata isn't that big a deal, most of it are either minor changes, or close a loophole that no sane DM would have allowed anyway. I do find that the game has accumulated so much errata that it is getting hard to find two people that have the same understanding of the rules.