Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

[Dust]

Yes - an unarmed punch or claw attack always counts as a 'Brawl' weapon, and thus you can counterattack when barehanded. This still doesn't mean a Blue Mage can counterattack with a staff or whatnot, though.

[ryven]

Does it actually say anywhere how much extra damage you take from being Weak or Vulnerable to an element, or how much you resist with Resistant? Immunity is self-explanatory, but I can't find the others (everything is just "has a Weakness to Lightning," "grants Resistance to Fire," without mentioning how that affects damage).

Nevermind, found it.

[wiimanclassic]

Yes - an unarmed punch or claw attack always counts as a 'Brawl' weapon, and thus you can counterattack when barehanded. This still doesn't mean a Blue Mage can counterattack with a staff or whatnot, though.

Of course it doesn't, over all blue mages are great at lower level by having a tier 2 weapon, and -4 to enemy attack rolls...is that intended? It kinda balances out later but in a low level game they WILL be a bit better then others.

[Dust]

and -4 to enemy attack rolls
You're referring to if they also take the mutation ability to fly? A situational bonus, but definitely a solid one that I have no real intention of changing.

[steelsmiter]

say, I thought of something interesting... since you got traits taken off because they were basically Enhance-a-rolls you could add them back but make them instead traits where you could roll an extra dice without destiny (possibly x times per session)

[horngeek]

Question! Is the link on the OP the latest version?

[Dust]

It's the latest official beta release. It'll still be another month or two before I manage to get anything else out, though the rules are already substantially different than the link, there.

[horngeek]

One complaint: There are several abilities where the duration is not at all defined.

Something better than 'several turns' is needed.

[Kobold-Bard]

One complaint: There are several abilities where the duration is not at all defined.

Something better than 'several turns' is needed.

I believe that's a Rule of Cool thing that's inherent to the system. Same as the abstract distances thing.

[Dust]

The duration of effects is definitely getting established in the next update, and I definitely appreciate you pointing it out. :smallsmile: The abstract distances isn't going anywhere.

[Bad Situation]

In the legendary weapons section Excalibur is listed as a Tier 8 Sword rather then a Blade. Typo?

[Dust]

Yes. That's one that hadn't been pointed out yet -thanks!

[steelsmiter]

I'm not entirely sure either where Save the Queen is concealed but I know where it's blade, as such even though there's a plethora of blades I use it as a blade in my game.

[Kobold-Bard]

Are there any other animal-focussed people (not classes) in the games similar to Chocobo Knights? I'm making a Trainer class for this and need more job abilities, so I'm planning on naming them for these people (if they exist) and making it an ability based on the theme.

[IcarusWings]

Are there any other animal-focussed people (not classes) in the games similar to Chocobo Knights? I'm making a Trainer class for this and need more job abilities, so I'm planning on naming them for these people (if they exist) and making it an ability based on the theme.

Does it include actual animals? If so, then Red XIII. If not, I'm stumped.

[Kobold-Bard]

Does it include actual animals? If so, then Red XIII. If not, I'm stumped.

You get a pet that you can use as a weapon, that's it's main schtick.

Though Red XIII ideads are swirling around my head now, I may yet add an ability based on it.

[Dust]

Gau from six was a wild-child styled Blue Mage, and Rinoa infamously had her dog that had attacks up to and including being fired from her arm like a canine-zooka.

[Kobold-Bard]

Gau from six was a wild-child styled Blue Mage, and Rinoa infamously had her dog that had attacks up to and including being fired from her arm like a canine-zooka.

GAH! :smallfurious:@self

How did I forget Rinoa? I shall look up Gau too. I'm also changing their legendary accessory to an issue of Pet Pals.

[Bad Situation]

How much does a dog-blaster cost?

I would stat it up as Tier 8 Arcane weapon. I mean, the only reason someone would shoot a dog from the wrist is if 'magic' was involved.

Or alcohol.

[wiimanclassic]

So trying a weird type of RP using this system. The players are in a world they know NOTHING about. I know nothing about it ether. The idea is they take turns describing the world around them as they explore it.

[SephlidJam]

Gau from six was a wild-child styled Blue Mage, and Rinoa infamously had her dog that had attacks up to and including being fired from her arm like a canine-zooka.

Also on the topic of Final Fantasy 6, we have Shadow's dog Interceptor - who sometimes took hits for you and sometimes counter attacks.

[wiimanclassic]

So quick question. Eject lets you send the target high up then slam them down. Would it be possible to instead use it to launch someone up and then slow them down as they fell? Adds some team work options involving a ranger.

[CaeruliusVentus]

I have a question about the freelancer and the non-colored magics. If a freelancer switches to entertainer and gets a new level, does he learn arts for each point in perform or just for any that are added when leveling? Similarly for the geomancer, does a freelancer automatically get access to geotrance upon conversion and then loses it when changing to something else since nothing is learned?

One option is to give the freelancer a special class ability that always stays available to them so that they permanently gain the innate ability of the class they are in currently with the exception that it can't be used on victory pose.

[steelsmiter]

So quick question. Eject lets you send the target high up then slam them down. Would it be possible to instead use it to launch someone up and then slow them down as they fell? Adds some team work options involving a ranger.

get Defy Gravity on the Ranger for that to work

[wiimanclassic]

get Defy Gravity on the Ranger for that to work

Ok then. Was just thinking of other uses for spells or things close enough to current spells to be considered alternate uses for them. Like slowing some down with eject by giving a small upwards boost before hitting the ground so they lose momentum then continue downwards.

[steelsmiter]

Ok then. Was just thinking of other uses for spells or things close enough to current spells to be considered alternate uses for them.

idk for increased control I'd call it +1 tier and +25-50% MP

[steelsmiter]

say... I use the Tektek Gaia avatar creator for my FF games online, anyone know of any better?

[Shadow Lord]

Can you explain your reasoning behind having White Mages get more Hit Points, Mana Points, and Evasion than Black Mages?

[Dust]

White Mages had a little cushion on their HP and MP to promote them being played slightly moreso, originally. Since smart GMs running smart monsters tend to focus the mages, I came to the tentative conclusion that the Black Mages getting beat down was a risk they took as part of the job...but a player who sacrifices a portion of his own fun to play a healbot (which is not always the case, mind. A lot of people, myself included, really like the support mmorpg mentality) should have a miniscule advantage over his fireball-tossing brethren so that he doesn't spend entire encounters face-down. I'm not sure if I still agree with that point now that the system's seen so many revisions.

I'm actually starting the playtest on the next major version as of tonight. You can probably expect to see the huge revision pdf appear here in about a month.

[steelsmiter]

White Mages had a little cushion on their HP and MP to promote them being played slightly moreso, originally. Since smart GMs running smart monsters tend to focus the mages, I came to the tentative conclusion that the Black Mages getting beat down was a risk they took as part of the job...but a player who sacrifices a portion of his own fun to play a healbot (which is not always the case, mind. A lot of people, myself included, really like the support mmorpg mentality) should have a miniscule advantage over his fireball-tossing brethren so that he doesn't spend entire encounters face-down. I'm not sure if I still agree with that point now that the system's seen so many revisions.

I'm actually starting the playtest on the next major version as of tonight. You can probably expect to see the huge revision pdf appear here in about a month.

can that be a seperate link though since I'm on the old system?

[wiimanclassic]

So where would be a good idea to get some maps to use? I plan to use maptool.

[Shadow Lord]

White Mages had a little cushion on their HP and MP to promote them being played slightly moreso, originally. Since smart GMs running smart monsters tend to focus the mages, I came to the tentative conclusion that the Black Mages getting beat down was a risk they took as part of the job...but a player who sacrifices a portion of his own fun to play a healbot (which is not always the case, mind. A lot of people, myself included, really like the support mmorpg mentality) should have a miniscule advantage over his fireball-tossing brethren so that he doesn't spend entire encounters face-down. I'm not sure if I still agree with that point now that the system's seen so many revisions.

I'm actually starting the playtest on the next major version as of tonight. You can probably expect to see the huge revision pdf appear here in about a month.

Alright. Just struck me as odd, is all. That, and the fact that I'd make Black Mages have more MP, and Whites have more HP. Also, and I'm not sure if this has been pointed out before; Spells suck at low levels. I mean, you get off like 1-2, sometimes 3. And then you're out. I'm not sure what you can do to fix that, though.

[IkeIllYu]

Hey so when are you going to fix up the more current PDF? I wouldn;t mind a bestiary for my game.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205265

[wiimanclassic]

Hey so when are you going to fix up the more current PDF? I wouldn;t mind a bestiary for my game.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205265

Right after the magic section. Where it always is. Don't rely on bookmarks for all of it.



That and its not even done yet. Try waiting till its done before complaining.

[Kobold-Bard]

Hey so when are you going to fix up the more current PDF? I wouldn;t mind a bestiary for my game.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205265

Out of curiosity, how did you actually find this if Dust hasn't released it yet? Or do you know Dust & this is a bizarre publicity stunt to generate more interest before the finished product comes out?

[IkeIllYu]

Haha, publicity seriously?

The truth is. One day Dust sleighted me and for that he will pay. :smallfurious:


SO. let us E-mail him and tell him to stop focusing on silly things like job/school/food. So he can focus on what's important, our fun.


Oh, and I got it by asking for it.

[wiimanclassic]

So uh, gonna keep a copy of the old rules. Why? Because some might prefer the older version.

Also the limit ability thing seems like a good idea.

[Dust]

Ike is a friend...and I use the term loosely...who craves constant attention lest he wither away and die.

The posted pdf certainly contains some progress to the system, but it's ultimately far from finished - in that incarnation, it's not even playable. I tend to keep my notes all over the place when working on this thing.

[Shadow Lord]

Ike is a friend...and I use the term loosely...who craves constant attention lest he wither away and die.

The posted pdf certainly contains some progress to the system, but it's ultimately far from finished - in that incarnation, it's not even playable. I tend to keep my notes all over the place when working on this thing.

Ah. So he's a best friend. You guys must be ULTRA PUBLICITY BUDDIES OF DOOM AND SUCH THINGS.

Either that, or you're close acquaintances. I prefer the first, but whatever you say Dust.

[IkeIllYu]

{Scrubbed}

[Story Time]

I really hope that I one day get a shot to try this system! I love Final Fantasy. :smallbiggrin: Thanks, Dust, for putting this up and working on it!

Also, on page one hundred, Shruiken is spelled: Shuriken. I don't know if that's an intentional mis-spell or not, given some of the games, but I thought I'd point it out.

:smallsmile:

[cilonrs]

I'm still reading, but so far.. great work, your son of a submariner!

[Sipex]

I've given this a read through and I'm very impressed. Definitely going to have to run this one day.

[Dust]

The new version is nearly done, just giving it a several month play-through and working on some of the graphics now as well as updating the bestiary to follow all the new rules.

[Story Time]

Yay, Dust! Keep it up. I hope you find out what you need to know.


1. Can I somehow be involved with the play-testing?

2. What are the chances that some people would be interesting in playing a game with the current system if I posted a recruitment thread within the next week?

[Ragingsystem]

I'm looking forward to the next version a lot. I can't wait!

[Temotei]

1. Can I somehow be involved with the play-testing?

Just start a game and tell Dust your experience with the system. We've done it before on these boards. Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=175849)'s an example.

[wiimanclassic]

So the thug gets the Ambush ability. It says it a job ability but the search function showed no ambush ability anywhere.

Am I missing something?

[Temotei]

Also, on page one hundred, Shruiken is spelled: Shuriken. I don't know if that's an intentional mis-spell or not, given some of the games, but I thought I'd point it out.

I always spelled it that way. It appears to be the right way... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuriken)

[Story Time]

Maybe I wasn't clear enough! Sorry. :smallsmile: The word in the book is: shruiken.

[Temotei]

Maybe I wasn't clear enough! Sorry. :smallsmile: The word in the book is: shruiken.

Oh. Okay. I didn't actually look at page one hundred. I thought you meant that the book spelled shruiken as "shuriken," which would be correct. Whoop for not looking.

[Story Time]

I did. It's okay. I'm not upset.

Also, Dust probably has plans for spelling checks among all the other things he's doing for the next version. I still wish I had enough confidence to post my idea for a game, but... Oh, well, that's a different issue. If I see any other spelling concerns I'll note them here.

And, Dust! Keep working on this system. I'm really glad you made it available!

:smallsmile:

[Ozreth]

Wait, why has it changed from d6 to 2d6?

[Temotei]

Wait, why has it changed from d6 to 2d6?

It uses the six-sided die a lot without using two. Besides, it flows better.

[Kobold-Bard]

@Dust: Does the Freelancer's Victory Pose ability grant them a point of Destiny for taking their first level of it? ie. do they start out with an extra point of Destiny?

Also: STATUS UPDATE PLEASE!! :smallbiggrin:

[lothofkalroth]

Dunno if this has been suggested yet, but I use pdfhost.com to host my system, 2d6, and it's never given me any trouble.

Also, I will definitely be running a game with this in the next year or two, and I'll give you as much feedback as I can : )

[Fearan]

2. What are the chances that some people would be interesting in playing a game with the current system if I posted a recruitment thread within the next week?
Well here's one interested player for you

[Story Time]

Noted. Thank you for the comment. I have been making preparations for a Final Fantasy D6 recruitment thread.

[Mono Vertigo]

*glances at thread*
Man. That's a pretty cool system.
I'll keep an eye on this. :smallwink:

[Kobold-Bard]

If Red Mages are limited to Tier 4 spells, should Paladins & Dark Knights really get access Tier 5s? They're supposed to be primary melee classes with some bagic as a back up, just seems odd to me that they can cast the top level spells, especially since White & Black Mages only get 2 top levels spells themselves.

Just a thought I had.

[DualShadow]

Pretty much agree with you Mr. Bard.

[Mono Vertigo]

I haven't calculated what should be their total MP at very high level, but that didn't shock me particularly. If they manage to cast it once, or more, while not being as optimized for magic use as Mages... well, why not? Red Mages are justified in their inability to learn Tier 5 because their schtick is to mix and match very different spells. What they gain in versatility, they lose in power.

(Of course, typing it, I realize Dark Knights and Paladins' justification is a bit lacking in comparison. Huh, I'll stick to "they may not even be able to cast it and be otherwise decent", until someone more willing to dabble with maths proves me wrong.)

[Mulcibaer]

(Of course, typing it, I realize Dark Knights and Paladins' justification is a bit lacking in comparison. Huh, I'll stick to "they may not even be able to cast it and be otherwise decent", until someone more willing to dabble with maths proves me wrong.)

Challenge accepted. gimme a few moments to pull open my tome... Also, define "Otherwise decent" for me.

Possible Paladin:

At level 30: Str 16, Vit 19, Dex 2, Int 17, Spr 15.

HP: 780 MP: 600

And the costs of the level 5 spells are:
Holy Shield: 200
Full Life: 350
Holy: 300

Good: Decent Hp, Str. Spells are all based on Int, so decent Damage/healing. Temper will have a decent duration. Abilities and skills are based on playstyle.

Option: Ditch strength, investing in increased Vit and Int. Use Arcane weapons and a big blob of health.

Bad: You are not going to dodge anything. Also, any more specialized characters are going to outclass you in damage or in defense, if they so choose to. Not to mention how you can't dodge anything.

[Mono Vertigo]

Welllll... yeah, that meets my standards for decency. I retract my previous statement. Thanks for proving your point. :smallyuk:

[Kobold-Bard]

@Dust: Just noticed that by the book, Samurai's don't get Light armour proficiency.

I know you've re-done it all, but I just like being a pain in the neck :smallcool:

[Dust]

Thanks. :smallbiggrin:

[Mulcibaer]

Dont know if it has already been stated or not, but freelancer can be a bit overpowered. Mixing and matching well fitting abilities from multiple classes can lead to inane situations i.e. having 90 something evasion. Since you had some revision work done, is this still possible? or have you tooled the system to keep it fair and fun?

[CaeruliusVentus]

This was addressed earlier. Basically you can make a munchkined freelancer that is nigh untouchable (and heals 10% when missed and damages anyone that attacks and ...) but it takes a long time to get to that powerful and in the mean time you are weaker than everyone else.
The only time a freelancer out of the box is overwhelmingly powerful compared to the others is if you start at a high level, but then they lose the ability increases and destiny points that are so important to the powerful builds.

[Dust]

The next version will actually see the Freelancer job vanish entirely, and being able to mix/max job abilities built right into the system. I'm sure there's still some nasty combos out there, but it wasn't as bad as it once was.

[Kobold-Bard]

The next version will actually see the Freelancer job vanish entirely, and being able to mix/max job abilities built right into the system. I'm sure there's still some nasty combos out there, but it wasn't as bad as it once was.

http://www.ponychan.net/chan/arch/src/131268070794.jpg

I am very glad to hear this.

[wiimanclassic]

http://www.ponychan.net/chan/arch/src/131268070794.jpg

I am very glad to hear this.

Everyone has the job change ability and you can also get the onion knight ability and change ever more.

[MacLeod]

I'm deeply interested in the development of this game. So much so, that I registered for these forums in order to stay connected. :)

[Ragingsystem]

The next version will actually see the Freelancer job vanish entirely, and being able to mix/max job abilities built right into the system. I'm sure there's still some nasty combos out there, but it wasn't as bad as it once was.

SO Excited!!!

[ArthurFrayn]

I registered here just so I could tell you how awesome this project is. I'm a big fan and can't wait to see the next version!

[Dust]

Well, thanks! That means a lot to me. :smallbiggrin:

[Ragingsystem]

I registered here just so I could tell you how awesome this project is. I'm a big fan and can't wait to see the next version!

Me too!

I love this system, it's amazing!

[MacLeod]

@Ragingsystem & ArthurFrayn: I wonder if you folks are from rpg.net like me? I saw a link to here through this thread (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?595016-Simple-rules-for-running-JRPG-console-style-game&p=14477789#post14477789).

Anyways, I'm excited for the new version. No pressure though! ;)

[Ragingsystem]

@Ragingsystem & ArthurFrayn: I wonder if you folks are from rpg.net like me? I saw a link to here through this thread (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?595016-Simple-rules-for-running-JRPG-console-style-game&p=14477789#post14477789).

Anyways, I'm excited for the new version. No pressure though! ;)

Nope OOTS brought me here, though I do browse rpg.net from time to time, especially when I was thinking about buying the CoC 30th anniversary edition. Which I did.

[ArthurFrayn]

@Ragingsystem & ArthurFrayn: I wonder if you folks are from rpg.net like me? I saw a link to here through this thread (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?595016-Simple-rules-for-running-JRPG-console-style-game&p=14477789#post14477789).

Yes! That's the very thread that brought me here! :smallbiggrin:

Really, this game needs to get more airtime over there. It's too fine a gem to be hidden in the sands of the interwebs, and I wish I'd known about it sooner.

[wiimanclassic]

Got into a weird rp. Me using a Banga Fighter with the art of war variant(See home brew thread), another being a hume fighter, and another warrior type. He said ether Paladin or Dark Knight so yeah.
Gonna be kinda interesting to see how it balances between the 2 fighters and another warrior type class.

[MacLeod]

FFd6 can't utilize Print On Demand because of trademarks, right? This is really the only part that gets me, I want a physical copy of the new edition whenever it comes out but I guess this means I'll have to print it myself. x_x


Really, this game needs to get more airtime over there. It's too fine a gem to be hidden in the sands of the interwebs, and I wish I'd known about it sooner.Agreed. :smallcool:

[Story Time]

FFd6 can't utilize Print On Demand because of trademarks, right? This is really the only part that gets me, I want a physical copy of the new edition whenever it comes out but I guess this means I'll have to print it myself. x_x

First, you should ask Dust's permission. If you have that permission, then second, you can not sell your copy to anyone. Third, you should probably destroy the copy, or recycle it, when you are finished with it.

Following those three rules you should stay in comfortable legal and social ground.

[ArthurFrayn]

The new version is nearly done, just giving it a several month play-through and working on some of the graphics now as well as updating the bestiary to follow all the new rules.

I can't seem to make up my mind about something...

Since a new version is on the way (which seems very different from the old version at this point) I am wondering if I should go ahead and run a FF game with the system I've got now or wait.

The problem is, I don't want to be running a game, then have the new rules come out only to decide I want to convert everything mid-campaign. I've tried switching rules mid-campaign before. It wasn't pretty. :smalleek:

I know this is an annoying question, and one that probably has no answer anyway, but here it goes:

When you say the new version is 'nearly done' do you mean within weeks or within months? Either way is fine with me, and I certainly don't want you to rush anything.

I'm just trying to determine if I have time to start and finish a full campaign before the next version appears.

[wiimanclassic]

Consider running a campaign and then take note of the differences when the new version is out. Then just ask if they want to switch. If they don't just continue with the old rules.


They word well enough.

[ArthurFrayn]

Consider running a campaign and then take note of the differences when the new version is out. Then just ask if they want to switch. If they don't just continue with the old rules.


Yeah, and that may not be a bad idea in any case. Still, I'm hoping I get some kind of answer from Dust before committing to anything.

In the meantime, I've still got a lot more setting to work out anyway, so there's no big hurry. I'm thinking of doing a crazy amalgamated remix of FFV and FFVII. How? Sorta like this:

-There are four ancient legendary elemental crystals (earth, air, fire, water.)

-As of now, three of them belong to three ruthless power-mad corporations, who are abusing them for profit. (So think Shinra from FFVII, but three times over.) Each corporation would *love* to destroy the other two and seize all three crystals.

-The fourth ancient (wind) crystal is still missing. There is an ongoing cutthroat three-way world spanning race to find it. (Which is where I imagine the PC's coming into the game, and getting to make some important choices down the road as new information comes to light along the way.)

-As anyone who has played a FF game before probably can guess, the crystals are weakening and are on the verge of shattering.

-As anyone who has played a FF game before can also probably guess, the real purpose of the ancient crystals was to seal away an ancient evil from another dimension.

-What ancient evil is that? Are you sure you really want to know?

"ExDeathSephiroth" of course! :smallbiggrin:

Like I said, it's a crazy FF V / VII remix I'm working on. It's meant to be a nostalgic romp with many surprise familiar faces from the early days of Final Fantasy.

If anyone has any crazy ideas that would fit in with this concept, by all means throw them out there. :smallwink:

[MacLeod]

Is the FFD6 text under any particular license? I didn't see anything mentioned about the text... only the trademarks involved Squeenix stuff and artistic renderings.

If it isn't... I suggest the Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial Share Alike 3.0 license as seen here (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/).

If there has been discussion regarding this already and I missed it, sorry for bringing it up!

[Dust]

When you say the new version is 'nearly done' do you mean within weeks or within months? Either way is fine with me, and I certainly don't want you to rush anything.
Probably the latter. Playtesting has brought up more than a small handful of things that need fixing, and work has kept me preoccupied.

[Story Time]

Is the FFD6 text under any particular license? I didn't see anything mentioned about the text... only the trademarks involved Squeenix stuff and artistic renderings.

If it isn't... I suggest the Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial Share Alike 3.0 license as seen here (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/).

If there has been discussion regarding this already and I missed it, sorry for bringing it up!


...please...please refrain from submitting unnecessary litigatory concepts to Dust's personal, well-intended, fanatical project. There is no need for a license. Anyone with eyes and intelligence can tell that Dust has not attempted to portray herself as an employee of Square Enix. Beyond a formal disclaimer of ownership the Final Fantasy D6 manual needs nothing to ensure its permitted legality. More than that, it would be better to not attract the attention of any potential litigants.

In short: Aside from whatever personal changes Dust might choose to make to the home-brew, the document is fine and can be left as-is.


And I'm still really glad Dust went to the trouble of making it.

[steelsmiter]

Got into a weird rp. Me using a Banga Fighter with the art of war variant(See home brew thread), another being a hume fighter, and another warrior type. He said ether Paladin or Dark Knight so yeah.
Gonna be kinda interesting to see how it balances between the 2 fighters and another warrior type class.

aww I think I'm honored... at least I hope I am... depends on how you mean it's a weird rp.

[MacLeod]

...please...please refrain from submitting unnecessary litigatory conceptsYou've got a bad attitude, sir. And I really don't feel welcome here at all. If that is the point then this can be my last post.

That said, I was just trying to be helpful. Many really great games have been released under that license... but I didn't think about the possibility of getting unwanted attention. (Not that I think it would)

[ArthurFrayn]

Probably the latter. Playtesting has brought up more than a small handful of things that need fixing, and work has kept me preoccupied.

Oh, I totally understand.

Just let us (or me anyway) know if you need any help playtesting or editing or anything. The version you've put up works just fine, but some of the changes you've hinted at so far definitely sound like improvements.

Just out of idle curiosity, have you ever considered dropping the skill point/attribute tie-in and just let characters put up to four points into any skill at character creation? I ask because it seems like this would fix a couple of things while also making character creation even more streamlined, thus killing two birds with one stone:

-No more looking up an attribute ranking and adding +1 to it. (It can get a bit fiddly)

-Some character concepts would actually work better (such as a character who isn't all that bright, but who is skilled at mixing potions or fixing things, etc.)

-Better genre emulation at low levels (a +4 in athletics would allow you to run a chase scene from rooftop to rooftop, yet not do anything world-breaking, etc.) Most FF characters are, after all, pretty competent at what they do best.

-Even with a +4 to a skill check, a character would still only succeed at challenging tasks less than half the time. No game balance issue there.

Just a thought. Don't let me mess anything up.

[steelsmiter]

You've got a bad attitude, sir. And I really don't feel welcome here at all. If that is the point then this can be my last post.

That said, I was just trying to be helpful. Many really great games have been released under that license... but I didn't think about the possibility of getting unwanted attention. (Not that I think it would)

Actually the responder to your previous post has the right attitude. Dust has a disclaimer in his original documentation. All that other stuff just makes it where people can get nasty with the law and no one on a free homebrew gaming thread needs that.

[andhaira]

Hi there Dust and everyone else,

I registered just to post in this thread. I must say that you took upon yourself a herculean task and accomplished it pretty well. I cannot wait to see what the new update will be like. My only request is that you please, please please playtest the hell out of it. Just do an open playtest or something, with a 100 plus people if possible.

Currently I am favoring the Returners FFRPG, because it is playtested more and because I like what they have done with the classes. However, this could all change with your next edition of the FFRPG.

One thing I would request from you, please make the Dark Knight and the Paladin classes without spellcasting ability, like the Returner versions. That is truer to the FF games. Also, if possible please include a Holy Swordsman class, which was the class of Agrias and Delita in FF:Tactics. Paladin comes close, at least in the Returners version of the game, but still not the same thing. I have wanted to play a Holy Swordsman in a pnp game ever since I controlled Agrias in the original playstation game, and lately the FFT: PSP version.

Lastly, what are the chances you could make the game more like FFT? So basically, free job switching, and abilities cost JP's. Plus, you can also select the other, secondary abilities of each job such as Flight, Teleport, Jump +3, etc etc etc.

Best of luck and I eagerly await the next version of your game.

Regards

[Kobold-Bard]

...

Lastly, what are the chances you could make the game more like FFT? So basically, free job switching, and abilities cost JP's. Plus, you can also select the other, secondary abilities of each job such as Flight, Teleport, Jump +3, etc etc etc.

Best of luck and I eagerly await the next version of your game.

Regards

In the homebrew thread I did a variant rule for FF3 style job changing (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11884861&postcount=196). It doesn't address the "abilities by JP" etc. requsts, but maybe take a look? I'd appreciate any feedback.

[CaeruliusVentus]

hi andhaira,
First I don't speak for Dust or even have any connection beyond watching this thread. The trend for play testing is that Dust tests it out with a close group until it is well balanced. Then it gets posted online, and the forum people beta test it and give feedback that goes into the next version. Since this as been happening for a while, this next version can be considered well play-tested.

Dust commented that the next version uses a mix and match model for classes (hence freelancer is going to be gone), so if JP is not implemented it should be trivial to houserule in.

[wiimanclassic]

FF1 Paladin version had low level White magic

FF3 Knight was paladin and also had white magic

FF4 Cecil had White Magic

FF9 Beatrix has white magic and is like a paladin

FF11 Hello Paladin white magic

Dark Knights have been about status effects from time to time along with using hp for extra damage. So the black magic kinda works, just choose status effect spells.


So Paladins having white magic works.

[ArthurFrayn]

Hi there Dust and everyone else,

One thing I would request from you, please make the Dark Knight and the Paladin classes without spellcasting ability, like the Returner versions. That is truer to the FF games.

As someone else already pointed out, this just isn't the case. There are many Paladin spellcasters in FF. Not sure about the Dark Knights, though.



Lastly, what are the chances you could make the game more like FFT? So basically, free job switching, and abilities cost JP's. Plus, you can also select the other, secondary abilities of each job such as Flight, Teleport, Jump +3, etc etc etc.

Honestly... I don't think FFT would translate well to a table top game. While such things are fine in a tactical video game, you'd run into situations like this at the table:

Player: I want to use my jump ability to leap over the wall and escape the guards!
GM: You can't.
Player: Why not?
GM: Errr... Because you're dressed as a black wizard and you didn't pick jump before the battle?
Player: That's... Amazingly stupid.
GM: Yeah. It really is.

Also, having to keep track of JP's for a table top game seems like it would require *excessive* book keeping, and wouldn't really emulate the majority of the games in the series well at all. In short, you'd be emulating FFT better, but to the detriment of running anything else with it.

[wiimanclassic]

Dark Knights never really get magic. Mostly HP for extra damage and status effects.


I guess dust decided to give them black magic so they could get status spells instead of making the ability list be a bunch of status abilities.

[andhaira]

About the Paladin, I would then request Dust to make a new Job then called Holy Swordsman, based on Agrias and Delita from FFT. The Paladin class from Returners is based both on the classic Paladin and the Holy Swordsman from FFT, but I want one that's just based on the Holy Swordsman.

About modeling the system after FFT, you can easily modify the silliness away. For instance, many classes in FFT are not avialable at the start. Change this for the pnp RPG so that they are. Furthermore, if you buy any ability from any job, just rule that you can always use it. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that. Seems like simple common sense to me.

[Temotei]

About the Paladin, I would then request Dust to make a new Job then called Holy Swordsman, based on Agrias and Delita from FFT. The Paladin class from Returners is based both on the classic Paladin and the Holy Swordsman from FFT, but I want one that's just based on the Holy Swordsman.

About modeling the system after FFT, you can easily modify the silliness away. For instance, many classes in FFT are not avialable at the start. Change this for the pnp RPG so that they are. Furthermore, if you buy any ability from any job, just rule that you can always use it. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that. Seems like simple common sense to me.

You could also request things here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=175844). I'm sure Dust has enough on her plate with this project.

[louiscrites]

Great looking system! The only thing that bugged me was having only 5 tiers of magic. Some of the spell groupings really jar me (nuke and osmose in the same tier? o.O) and I was wondering why this was done? Seems easy enough to hack it into 8, since the MP costs are already all over the place.

[Mulcibaer]

Crap, forgot what I wanted to say.

I took a look at spells and spell level stuff, and these are my thoughts.
There are a few spells in the series that are made into abilities (looking at ninja abilities and Paladin's Astra. Spells could be split into single and group targets, increasing the raw number of spells. There could be longer lasting versions /harder to resist versions of status ailment spells. Any more thoughts?

[wiimanclassic]

Crap, forgot what I wanted to say.

I took a look at spells and spell level stuff, and these are my thoughts.
There are a few spells in the series that are made into abilities (looking at ninja abilities and Paladin's Astra. Spells could be split into single and group targets, increasing the raw number of spells. There could be longer lasting versions /harder to resist versions of status ailment spells. Any more thoughts?

Well maybe some system where you can ether pay double mp to make a singe a group spell or do 2/3s damage rounded down for a group target on a single target spell ?

[Story Time]

Crap, forgot what I wanted to say.

I took a look at spells and spell level stuff, and these are my thoughts.
There are a few spells in the series that are made into abilities (looking at ninja abilities and Paladin's Astra. Spells could be split into single and group targets, increasing the raw number of spells. There could be longer lasting versions /harder to resist versions of status ailment spells. Any more thoughts?

To my own personal bias this seems like a good idea in principle. In practice, though, and I do mean this politely, I think the idea would disrupt the structure of an already good system. Simplicity is Elegance. Could Ninja Disciplines be folded into the Arts and Black Disciplines? Certainly, but that may not improve the already dynamic and various system.

"Quantity is inferior to Quality." I would, honestly, appreciate a home-brew with an example of your system idea and suggestions of how to play its implementation. Until then, it is not so difficult to add a little note at the top of each ability which states how that ability could target an adversary.

Oh, wait... Most of them do that.


Also, welcome to the forum. Please enjoy your stay. :smallsmile:

[Dust]

A vague and general question; would you support the abolishment of the experience system if it made for a slightly better book, or is gaining those points too canon to the FF series that it would hurt the 'feel' of things too much?

Edit: I also know there's a few questions that await an answer, and I'll get to those soon.

[CaeruliusVentus]

I think it may come down to a particular preference of whoever is running the game. Personally, in any 3.5 edition game I run, I get rid of xp entirely and just level up every few sessions. This tends to work pretty well, and your previous edition was moving in that direction already.
If xp is too canon for FF based games to get rid of, then grinding through random battles to get the xp should be included too.

[wiimanclassic]

Include it as a alternate rules just incase someone wants it. Then again you already include a no exp option in the newest(finished) edition, where you just level when the plot demands.

[Story Time]

A vague and general question; would you support the abolishment of the experience system if it made for a slightly better book, or is gaining those points too canon to the FF series that it would hurt the 'feel' of things too much?

What a difficult question... :smallmad: It...

:smallconfused: First and foremost Dust, the game is produced by you and only your decision is really the most important one about it. If you want to remove the Experience System and choose some other form of resolution for a simpler style of game play then that is what you must do. You should do as your conscience and sensibilities guide you.

Since you are asking for opinions, mine is that of the Final Fantasy, Team Menu Interface. That graphical user interface for quite some time has allowed Players to bring up the Status sheets of their characters and physically look at how much experience their character had and then to calculate, or look depending on the menu, at the amount of experience remaining until their character increased in level.

Personally? I like to see the numbers and believe their presence is part of the genre of Final Fantasy. Eliminating them, I feel, would distance any game from the core style of play of Final Fantasy. There are plenty of Experience-less games out there to choose from if some Player wanted that style of play.

Therefore, I feel that the following is the best answer:

Include it as a alternate rules just incase someone wants it. Then again you already include a no exp option in the newest(finished) edition, where you just level when the plot demands.


GameMasters who wish to obviate Experience Points will do so at their own whims. Those who wish to do so are likely competent enough to run their own games in whatever manner they choose. Less experienced GameMasters may not be so fortunate and those who might fit in the Hard-Core and Purist affiliations may find the complete lack of an Experience System to be...too far removed from the canon genre to play your game.

And...it really is a good manual that you have put together even without all of the improvements that we have yet to see, Dust. :smallsmile:

Therefore to sum up: Do as you feel that you need to. If our opinions hold value in your estimation then so be it. In the end, one more change puts off the Final Release of your material.

[steelsmiter]

A vague and general question; would you support the abolishment of the experience system if it made for a slightly better book, or is gaining those points too canon to the FF series that it would hurt the 'feel' of things too much?

Edit: I also know there's a few questions that await an answer, and I'll get to those soon.

it would be neat if it were an 'alternate' set of rules somewhat like a sphere grid, but such things require points and emphasize less a requirement of levels which the exact opposite of what you seem to want to do in abolishing the experience requirement. As it is the experience requirement isn't too strict... do cool stuff, fight bad munsters... fight badder munsters to get moar points rraaah!

levels could be abolished to make everything a shared ability including extra attribute levels and hit point increases. everything would then have an EXP cost which thereagain goes against what seems to be your purpose... is any of the above coherant? I was writing what I felt more than trying to separate the jumble of thought.

[andhaira]

Quick question:

What is the maximum level possible in the 2d6 RPG?

[Sipex]

In response to Dust's xp question.

While I wouldn't say no to different level up rules (ie: No exp) I also feel it's something which should at least be included.

Even if you just give a baseline for people to make their own maths like "Every 10 of-level battles the party should be gaining enough xp to level up"

Or just leave the last version with XP worked in available that way people can refer to previous versions for XP rules/ideas

[louiscrites]

A vague and general question; would you support the abolishment of the experience system if it made for a slightly better book, or is gaining those points too canon to the FF series that it would hurt the 'feel' of things too much?

Edit: I also know there's a few questions that await an answer, and I'll get to those soon.

Your current XP system is already so abstract that I'm having trouble envisioning a scenario where taking it out would improve anything. At the least I'd keep it in a sidebar, I can't see it hurting anything just by existing in the book.

Could you explain how it would make things better? Is there some sort of alternate advancement system or what?

[louiscrites]

sphere grid

Now that would be cool.


Quick question:

What is the maximum level possible in the 2d6 RPG?

I believe it is 30.

[wiimanclassic]

Now that would be cool.



I believe it is 30.

Well you can go higher, you just need to make the monsters past that your self or start throwing bosses around like candy.

"Yes we beat Exdeath last week and chaos yesterday, why do you ask?"

[Dust]

A LOT of people are requesting the Holy Swordsman, which is interesting to me because I've always envisioned it to simply be the Paladin. In response, the current version of the holy warrior is getting a lot more flash and bang. I'm worried Paladin is actually verging into dangerously overpowered territory, but it's something I'll have to just keep an eye on.

At this point lots of stuff is finished and ready for release, I'm just waiting for permissions for pictures, a couple commissioned pieces, and was stalling for time in hopes I could get the Final Fantasy XIV segment included, but information there is still coming sparsely. I also need to re-do the entire sample bestiary to be in line with the new rules, but that's a massive task. I also wanted to do a few racial-specific Jobs for the Ivalician games simply because Kobold-Bard's Moogle Knight inspired me so much, but that may end up just being a pipe dream.

The problem with the EXP system right now is;
a) It's pointlessly complicated. Attribute every X levels, job ability every X levels, limit break every X levels, memorize those values. There's other stuff that needs to be complex in this system, and this isn't it.
b) It's non-canonical. The max level for FF heroes is, as well all know, 99. It feels too much like D&D currently, even though I picked the level cap of 30 before 4e was released. In games that don't have the cap of 99, they have a much smaller number or no number at all.
c) Levelling up feels too common, happening after every game or two, and doing all the piddly math takes a lot of the 'awesome' factor out of it.

The new version will see characters have a maximum Job Level from 1 to 8 ("Master"), like the more traditional Tactics games. Each level-up includes a slew of bonuses based on your current Job, such as flat attributes, multiple spells, and always at least one ability.

I really haven't reworked the spells at all short of trying to re-adjust the MP costs, and if that's a concern you have with the system, it unfortunately won't be addressed in this next big massive update. The only notable change is how most spells can now be either single-target or group-target without the need for getting two different spells, which is something I should have been doing anyway.

I do intend on doing a big open playtest before things get finalized, and even planning on running a game here on GiTP as well on Rpol myself immediately after Christmas.

[Blisstake]

Huh, I never really had a problem with the exp system, but the new system sounds very interesting, so can't wait for that.

Thanks for putting so much work into this :smallsmile:

[Story Time]

I agree. My own view is that the experience system is relatively simple compared to other systems. It somewhat reminds me of Savage Worlds. Making a small reference sheet of the experience table was not difficult for me and, as a fact, was one of the reasons I liked this system so much.

Strangely, I had no problem accepting a Maximum Level Limit of thirty. Reaching ninety-nine seemed more arduous than small numbers of experience gathering together to advance a character every few ( quirky ) levels. The issue of canonisity is...accurate, but also trivial enough in my bias to be forgiven easily.

Again, thank you, Dust, for continuing with your project. Thank you for your up-date post. I look forward to inspecting what will come.

[Kobold-Bard]

Glad the Moogle Knight served a small purpose :smallsmile:

Your vague descriptions of the new system have me intrigued. I look forward to the update.

[Mono Vertigo]

For what it's worth, I had no issue with the XP system or the level limit either, but hey, your system. :smallsmile:

[wiimanclassic]

Maybe just push it into an optional rules area or something, the exp thing I mean. It works well enough.....and move banga to the races section. Sure the bonus they get isn't as good but its awesome in a boss fight.

[Kobold-Bard]

I know it will be irrelevant come the new version, but I've made a Dissidia style Summoner class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12141880&postcount=201) that I think everyone should check out & offer advice about.

[CaeruliusVentus]

Curious to see the specifics, but I really like the sound of the new class/level system.

Thanks for doing all of this work.

[Brontes]

Looking forward to its release, I've been dying to play in a game with some stamina to it. Hopefully one will allow Bangaa or Nu Mou.

Edit: I'd also be happy to volunteer myself as a proofreader. It's good practice for my line of work.

[wiimanclassic]

Looking forward to its release, I've been dying to play in a game with some stamina to it. Hopefully one will allow Bangaa or Nu Mou.

Edit: I'd also be happy to volunteer myself as a proofreader. It's good practice for my line of work.

They are both already in the current version. Just for some reason in the FF12 section. Nu Mou just get Analyze at any time for no mp and a +1 bonus to any Lore skill checks.

Banga just don't die 1/4 the time when a boss uses no mercy on them.

[Brontes]

I meant I hope a game that will allow them shows up sometime after the new release.

[Dust]

As a thanks for keeping me motivated on this project, guys and gals, I wanted to give a little thanks. This link contains (http://www.mediafire.com/?7i62hwso205hqy1) a complete version of the updated Jobs, with only a few things technically unfinished.

- The formatting is still very much designed to be viewed in Word and not in PDF format, and it's a visual mess. The text detail graphics are always the last things I touch up and finalize (something I couldn't force myself to do at 4am on a Thursday morning, alas, even though looking at the Monk's hair and Red Mage's outline causes me PHYSICAL PAIN!). The finished version will look significantly better (http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/3456/darksideshot.png).
- The ACC and AVD values of all Jobs are listed as broad categories like 'Poor' and 'Good' instead of actual numbers. Playtesting has shown a few potential problems with scaling evasion, and I wanted to make sure those get completely addressed before finalizing the numbers.
- Lots of stuff referencing other pages is marked simply as ???. This is shorthand for when a page can't be found because, for obvious reasons, it doesn't exist in the pdf. Likewise, there's lots of stuff being referenced that can't be looked up - use your imaginationz!

I now wish I had included the list of thank-yous, because the forum was a ton of help with this whole process, and I'm looking forward to showing off the entire book. Let me just say that there's lots of people who should have been credited previously and weren't (like Kobold-Bard, steelsmiter, and wiiman), and I apologize for that - your contributions have been completely essential.

Hopefully I manage to get the playable version of this damn thing out before December!

As well, I'm sure there's all sorts of munchkinny combos in the abilities I'm missing. If you spot anything that works together FREAKISHLY well, is overtly complicated or just completely worthless, please do let me know.

[Kobold-Bard]

Still don't like Paladin & Dark Knight getting access to (what I assume are) the top level of spells, just doesn't seem right.

That said it looks interesting, and I look forward to more.

[wiimanclassic]

Still don't like Paladin & Dark Knight getting access to (what I assume are) the top level of spells, just doesn't seem right.

That said it looks interesting, and I look forward to more.

Well except if they decide on Ultima how often will the DK get off a tier 5 spell?

[Brontes]

On page 3, you described the ancient constructs as "psyopathic" I assume you meant psychopathic?

[CaeruliusVentus]

First, as someone who tends toward the monk over other classes, I really like how you gave it flavor with the chains.

Is a player locked in to the class they choose at the beginning or can they pick and choose at each level?

Also, do you want spelling and editing comments?

[wiimanclassic]

First, as someone who tends toward the monk over other classes, I really like how you gave it flavor with the chains.

Is a player locked in to the class they choose at the beginning or can they pick and choose at each level?

Also, do you want spelling and editing comments?

You can take an ability to switch class each level I think.

[Dust]

Oh lord, it looks so awful in that format. Oh, well.

A lot of the spelling and grammar problems exist because I haven't actually spellchecked that section. It was really quite a spur-of-the-moment sort of decision to stick it up. That said, I would of course appreciate it, though I'm sure there's a lot. :smallbiggrin:

The chains for monk was something I wanted to do for a long time (and even hope to improve upon it as it gets playtested a bit after the release) but a lot of stuff was feeling very MMORPGish and I was trying to avoid that feeling.

It does end up costing Destiny to Job Change, just because I feel it should stay a big event that should only happen once or maybe twice, but will ultimately be a fairly accessible and easy option.

[wiimanclassic]

Or use the subjob variant from the FF11 and only allow it once a session.


Does magic stay after switching jobs? Since its granted by a classes inate ability I mean.

[Dust]

Yes, spells obtained (as well as weapon/armor 'proficiencies') stay regardless of your current Job. Non-mage jobs don't grant bonus MP, so they can't use it as OFTEN, but that's the only real downside.

[Kobold-Bard]

Well except if they decide on Ultima how often will the DK get off a tier 5 spell?

Technically ultima has another Rank 5 Spell as a pre-req in the older version, so DJ couldn't pick it.

And you're right, it's just a concept thing that irks me a bit; they've dedicated themselves to combat skill, yet can access the Black/Whote mage's ultimate powers as well, just seems weird. Especially when Red Mages (rightly) only get Rank 4 spells.

[Arete]

I enjoyed reading the first writeup, and am looking forward to the revised edition; enough that I might run my own game even. :smallsmile:

First, I like the simplification of races as just flavor-text; FF characters have always been defined more by their abilities and talents than race, so that was a good choice.

The stats make sense, and doing away with ratings was a good move. As a suggestion, I'd consider a minimum of 2, rather than 1, in any stat, for a few reasons; given an average of 6 for starting adventurers, that puts the minimum at a reasonable range while normal people (3) are just a bit better. But more importantly, it means the lowest possible Force/Finesse is 1 ((2+2)/4). Unless it was intended that characters can have a Force/Finesse of 0? Because if we always round down, that's a real possibility if you have 2 or more stats at 1. EDIT: Another reason is that other Attribute minimums (ie., Entertainer's Montage) list 2 as the minimum, and I like consistency like that. :) /EDIT

There's also at least one Ability (Black Mage's Crystal Cannon for example) that lets you sacrifice Attribute points. Would that use the same minimum value of either 1 or 2?

[Story Time]

And you're right, it's just a concept thing that irks me a bit; they've dedicated themselves to combat skill, yet can access the Black/Whote mage's ultimate powers as well, just seems weird. Especially when Red Mages (rightly) only get Rank 4 spells.

Haven't you ever wondered what happens when mages Hold Hands?

:smallbiggrin:

[Kobold-Bard]

Haven't you ever wondered what happens when mages Hold Hands?

:smallbiggrin:

:confused:

[Fearan]

Ok, am I correct?
Draw-out.
T8 - nobody have ever done that, blah-blah-blah. Probably rewrite reality.
Iaido
gain 50% chance of non-breaking the weapon via Draw-Out. OR just don't break the weapon by spending a Destiny point.

So what do we have here?
Step 1: Grab Masamune.
Step 2: Draw out Masamune for Epic Wish-like effect. Spend a Destiny point.
Step 3: Repeat until you run out of Destiny points.

[steelsmiter]

Ok, am I correct?
Draw-out.
T8 - nobody have ever done that, blah-blah-blah. Probably rewrite reality.
Iaido
gain 50% chance of non-breaking the weapon via Draw-Out. OR just don't break the weapon by spending a Destiny point.

So what do we have here?
Step 1: Grab Masamune.
Step 2: Draw out Masamune for Epic Wish-like effect. Spend a Destiny point.
Step 3: Repeat until you run out of Destiny points.

nice exploitation... though the GM could allow you ultima for the epic wishlike effect you'd spend 4 to keep it from destroying everyfrigginthing!

[mint]

I was just browsing the job preview pdf and I was wondering about the background. Have you considered using straight up white instead of the mottled parchment style?
I think white would be very attractive with the blue gradient and the crystals.

[ArthurFrayn]

Interesting direction to take things. I like the simplification of the stats a lot, but I'm curious to see how other things will work out like job levels and leveling up.

Thanks for sharing what you have so far. I'll be watching for more!

EDIT: I can't remember now- was Zeromus stated up in the 1st release?

[Dust]

I was just browsing the job preview pdf and I was wondering about the background. Have you considered using straight up white instead of the mottled parchment style?
I think white would be very attractive with the blue gradient and the crystals.
I agree wholeheartedly and will be doing this.

I can't remember now- was Zeromus stated up in the 1st release?
Nope, I missed a TON of bosses and they wound up being all out of order. After having done the entire bestiary, trying to balance the End Bosses took a lot out of me, so I just sort of whipped them up as I was inspired to do so. Zeromus, Ultimecia, Sin, Orphan, and the Shadowlord are all showing up this time around.

[andhaira]

Can't wait! I would also like to offer my services as a proofreader/playtester. :)

Also, some people have mentioned a preview pdf, where is it? Was it only pm'd to select people? If so, can I have it?

Regards

[Kobold-Bard]

Can't wait! I would also like to offer my services as a proofreader/playtester. :)

Also, some people have mentioned a preview pdf, where is it? Was it only pm'd to select people? If so, can I have it?

Regards

Linked on the previous page:


As a thanks for keeping me motivated on this project, guys and gals, I wanted to give a little thanks. This link contains (http://www.mediafire.com/?7i62hwso205hqy1) a complete version of the updated Jobs, with only a few things technically unfinished.

- The formatting is still very much designed to be viewed in Word and not in PDF format, and it's a visual mess. The text detail graphics are always the last things I touch up and finalize (something I couldn't force myself to do at 4am on a Thursday morning, alas, even though looking at the Monk's hair and Red Mage's outline causes me PHYSICAL PAIN!). The finished version will look significantly better (http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/3456/darksideshot.png).
- The ACC and AVD values of all Jobs are listed as broad categories like 'Poor' and 'Good' instead of actual numbers. Playtesting has shown a few potential problems with scaling evasion, and I wanted to make sure those get completely addressed before finalizing the numbers.
- Lots of stuff referencing other pages is marked simply as ???. This is shorthand for when a page can't be found because, for obvious reasons, it doesn't exist in the pdf. Likewise, there's lots of stuff being referenced that can't be looked up - use your imaginationz!

I now wish I had included the list of thank-yous, because the forum was a ton of help with this whole process, and I'm looking forward to showing off the entire book. Let me just say that there's lots of people who should have been credited previously and weren't (like Kobold-Bard, steelsmiter, and wiiman), and I apologize for that - your contributions have been completely essential.

Hopefully I manage to get the playable version of this damn thing out before December!

As well, I'm sure there's all sorts of munchkinny combos in the abilities I'm missing. If you spot anything that works together FREAKISHLY well, is overtly complicated or just completely worthless, please do let me know.

[Blisstake]

Nope, I missed a TON of bosses and they wound up being all out of order. After having done the entire bestiary, trying to balance the End Bosses took a lot out of me, so I just sort of whipped them up as I was inspired to do so. Zeromus, Ultimecia, Sin, Orphan, and the Shadowlord are all showing up this time around.

Is Orphan actually going to be immune to Death in this stat-up? :smalltongue: (He wasn't in FFXIII, oddly enough)

[wiimanclassic]

Why change Evasion to avoidance? Also manafont is slightly op if they have at least the cost to use+3 or a multiple there of. Why? ULTIMAS!!11!1!!1

[louiscrites]

So are there only 8 levels total, or is job switching the default now?

[Dust]

So are there only 8 levels total, or is job switching the default now?
The former; you'll only level-up 7 times, which makes for slightly odder gameplay conceptually, but ultimately a feeling that I'm a LOT happier with. I'm sure there's going to be a lot of disapproval on this point.

Why change Evasion to avoidance?
A lot of it has turned into avoiding attacks through parrying, soaking, deflecting, blocking, kicking up chunks of wooden floorboard to shield yourself from hurled daggers in mid-air, and so on. EVA just didn't sound right. Neither does AVD, but it's a lot closer.

Is Orphan actually going to be immune to Death in this stat-up? :smalltongue: (He wasn't in FFXIII, oddly enough)
Ha, I like this. No, I don't think he will be. :smalltongue:

[wiimanclassic]

On Red Mage it says they get 1 superior under 2 superior.


Also I plan to just ask the people I play with if they want to switch to the new edition or not.

[louiscrites]

The former; you'll only level-up 7 times, which makes for slightly odder gameplay conceptually, but ultimately a feeling that I'm a LOT happier with. I'm sure there's going to be a lot of disapproval on this point.

I think so, too. One of the things that people dislike about level systems (if they have a beef with them) is that they give you too much "stuff" at one time. The new system exacerbates this problem heavily by having even less levels and getting even more "stuff" at each level. I feel like some things are being changed just for the sake of changing them.

It seems like you want to steer clear of anything involving a lot of levels and experience points, and so, I have to ask: why are you trying to do that in a system that is famously known for leveling up a whole bunch of times? Your original work was quite good and after some cleaning up would have been fantastic; frankly your new system has me experiencing that weird sort of vibe that had me evading, well, all other Final Fantasy RPGs. A leveling system that caps at 8, to me, is missing the point of being a leveling system. There's not enough progress. You're not making slow & steady progress or fast and furious; it's slow and choppy. I think it will be jarring in actual play, but that is only speculation; although you did mention odder gameplay.

I also have a bunch of balance questions that you probably don't have time for, such as "why the heck does a Dark Knight get the same amount of magical capability as a freaking mage class?"

[Akabana_Shin]

I am not seeing the 8-level cap in the pdf yet... Maybe I haven't read that much.

Btw, I'm not sure someone's already said this, but there's a small typo in the name of one of the black mage's abilities. The name of the ability is mistaken by the name of another ability (copy-pasta typo?) I'm on mobile and don't remember exactly which ability has the name wrong, but it has the name of the first ability of the black mage's list.

[MagnusExultatio]

A friend and I are slightly concerned over the White Mage's Stronger Together ability. It's a bit... odd. I wouldn't say it's broken, but it does seem to be a really really good choice for a job ability, as in you'd be silly to not choose it.

[Story Time]

I also have a bunch of balance questions that you probably don't have time for, such as "why the heck does a Dark Knight get the same amount of magical capability as a freaking mage class?"

...this is intended with quiet politeness. Please search this thread as the specific subject addressed here has been mentioned previously. In an exceedingly exhaustive repetition.


The rest of the post, though, I felt had some merit and if time constraints along with other factors allowed me to run a campaign based on the current version it might allow myself and a small few exploration of some of the mentioned particulars. Unfortunately, other forces continue to restrain.




[...]using straight up white instead of the mottled parchment style?

...again, with politeness, I disagree. A background allows a document to appear more polished when handled correctly. Perhaps I simply like parchment as a result of my personal tastes. But none of the above will likely cause me to withdraw my support from this project.

[edsaurus]

I didn't understand a thing.
At page 15 it says that characters gain 1 attribute point per level, when at page 119 it says that they gain 1 attribute point every 3 levels instead.
What's the correct one?

[Kobold-Bard]

I didn't understand a thing.
At page 15 it says that characters gain 1 attribute point per level, when at page 119 it says that they gain 1 attribute point every 3 levels instead.
What's the correct one?

Both, as it says on p.119.

You get 1 point/level to assign to any stat you like (max. 30 obviously).

The 1/3 levels is a further bonus (that you don't get if you start higher than the level where you would have got it) that can't go in your highest stat, to help round your character out.

[DruidJP585]

As a IRC player playing a White Mage Living Doll (Technically an Android, but styled like FF9 black mages), I have some things to say.

First off, old book.
Under grafts it mentions both tinkering and machines. Which synth skill do you use to make and repair grafts?

Now back to Job Preview:
in the new system... one of the few redeeming qualities I found is the Limit abilities and magic not taking the innate slot. They allow for a balance of sorts that I found refreshing, keeping someone from loading up on the 'power feats' for their class right off of the bat.
If they were implemented in the old 30 level system that would be great.
This is how you could be able to do it: At levels 5, 15, and 25 they gain a limit ability with their limit break.
I chose those three levels as they represent three stages of the game. Start, Midpoint, and Endgame. It would also mean they gain a Limit Ability right next to their limit break, which is awesome if you think about it.

Honestly, I am not too keen on the leveling change...

-----------------------
EDIT: Before I forget, Manduin. Give him a special that allows one party member to exclude themselves from the party summon, that way he can utilize Trance on them.

Also, Time Mage has no legendary accessory.

[wiimanclassic]

Maybe tone down the Dark Knights legendary accessory from "Lulz no death unless boss uses no mercy" to "When knocked to 0 hp you may act as if you had 1 hp for 3 more turns" or something.

[DruidJP585]

Personally, I would like to call for an Errata version 1.1 or something to the old book before releasing the new one.

Where it would cover stuff like:

The missing legendary accessory for Time Mage
The ambiguity of which skill governs graft creation and repair
Clarification on what happens if a Special Vehicle is reduced to 0 hp
Balance change for the Dark Knight legendary accessory to keep it from being op.
Balance change for Geomancer. Remove the Survival skill limitation as it leaves the geomancer at disadvantage.
...and more!

The IRC people say the old book is perfectly good, and only has loosends to tie up.

[steelsmiter]

Personally, I would like to call for an Errata version 1.1 or something to the old book before releasing the new one.

Where it would cover stuff like:

The missing legendary accessory for Time Mage
The ambiguity of which skill governs graft creation and repair
Clarification on what happens if a Special Vehicle is reduced to 0 hp
Balance change for the Dark Knight legendary accessory to keep it from being op.
Balance change for Geomancer. Remove the Survival skill limitation as it leaves the geomancer at disadvantage.
...and more!

The IRC people say the old book is perfectly good, and only has loosends to tie up.

I agree wholeheartedly, except I'm a bit extreme where it comes to the Geomancer and Freelancer.

[DruidJP585]

I agree wholeheartedly, except I'm a bit extreme where it comes to the Geomancer and Freelancer.
How extreme?

[wiimanclassic]

So, rereading the rules on a slow action, what can you actually do the turn it resolves? It says you could start another slow action, does that mean you still have your turns instant and standard actions?

[Kobold-Bard]

So, rereading the rules on a slow action, what can you actually do the turn it resolves? It says you could start another slow action, does that mean you still have your turns instant and standard actions?

Yeah, the Slow action resolves at the start of your turn, but doesn't actually use any of your next turn. So you get all your usual turn's worth of actions.

[wiimanclassic]

So if someone had 3 standard actions they could cast 1 spell on the 1st turn and set another to go off the next turn leading to 2 spells the next turn, 1 from the 2 standard,1 from last turn, then do the same thing again and again?

3 standard actions means 2 spells a turn with a 1 turn start up.

[DruidJP585]

I took a look at the various stat reducing moves such as entertainer dances and break arts, and I noticed how hard it is to apply them to monsters.

Right now, I am going through the old bestiary and adding Stats to attacks.
How I am doing it is dividing by the largest stat, and if it divides evenly, I use that (even if it doesn't make sense). Then I go by the next logical stat.
If none matches, I mark it as ?*?

I am almost done, so I'll rapidshare it for review soon.

Note: I did not change any damage, though, once it is reviewed, damage may change where people agree upon (like a gun should do DEX damage where STR is marked). Yeah, together we can fix those.

[DruidJP585]

Well. Here is my Personal Update to the Old Beastiary.

https://rapidshare.com/files/2246626360/Beastiary_v1.1.pdf

Changes:

Every single time a monster does any sort of damage (with the exception of a Bomb Core atttack), a stat calculation is show, like so: (STR*1=2).
If there was no way using stats to get the damage that I could see, it is shown as (?*?=)
A Few moves that were marked as (Disarmable) were adjusted to have the * mark that marks other 'disarm-able' moves.


[There are less then a dozen ?*?= and plenty of [WTF, STR for a Gun?] situations.
If a topic is made for Bestiary Development, I could work with people to Fix such things without polluting this topic.


666

[Dust]

Wow, that is a crazy amount of work, and I applaud you for it. I've always felt the bestiary is by far the shabbiest part of the book, since, being the last section, I was always spent and sick of number-crunching when I got to it. I applaud you, sir, and will redouble my efforts to get answers to all your other questions.

[Akabana_Shin]

Ok, I'm reading the gambler class, and I must say that it is quite underpowered. Well, it's abilities are ok, but in the long run the probabilities will play against the player and the character will most likely end dead (best of cases.) Things like Wildfire are so hard to pull but extremely attractive to the innocent bystander that it will surely end in a frustrated player.

Just my humble opinion, btw.

[Dust]

Gambler definitely still needs some tweaks before the final book release. So many of its features are must-take (any synergies with other Job abilities so well) and so many are lackluster, and, as you mentioned, the odds are generally tipped away from Gambler more than they need to be.

[steelsmiter]

How extreme?

they're not allowed in my games under any circumstances as either characters or opponents.

[Necro_EX]

Glad to see this project is still being worked on so well.

I grabbed the .pdf a while back and hadn't really gotten around to looking through it 'til recently (made sure to get the up-to-date .pdf) and I have to say I am absolutely loving this system, so much so that I started writing up a setting and a campaign outline right away. Might just be me, but something just doesn't sit well with me using just about any of the game's settings since they've been explored and romped through so thoroughly by their protagonists. (Well, Ivalice could still be used with little problem I suppose.)

I do have a few questions, though.

- I was thumbing through this thread and noticed you're planning on making some pretty major changes to how jobs work and it sounds a lot like FFT/FFV which is where I think the job system truly shined so I'm definitely looking forward to that, any idea when the .pdf will be updated with these changes?

- About the M-Tek armors, how exactly does ACC work for their weapons? Is it just the character's weapon systems skill or is it that you use your weapon systems skill + your job's base instead of your associated attribute rating?
I ask because the setting I'm writing up uses a lot of similar mecha and figure knowing how to go about that might be important. :3

Again, love everything you've done with this so far and definitely looking forward to that next update.

[wiimanclassic]

I say keep the old style, maybe a few updates to balance it out a bit, and just keep it for people who prefer the old style/don't like the new one. No reason to just get rid of it, keep it unsupported except by the community maybe, but just keep it around.

[steelsmiter]

I say keep the old style, maybe a few updates to balance it out a bit, and just keep it for people who prefer the old style/don't like the new one. No reason to just get rid of it, keep it unsupported except by the community maybe, but just keep it around.

YES! That says it all right there! I'm not done with the old system and don't plan on converting anytime soon since I've only just got a decent game going on rpol.net.

[Story Time]

Since I am currently in negotiations for a game using the presently provided system I also have a vested interest in keeping it available and up-to-date.

[Lord Badguy]

I'm looking forward to seeing the Gambler revised.

Currently, "Slots" is very weak for an innate ability (although I like it's being changed from a standard to an instant action), producing a negative effect ~55% of the time... Even using a precious use of Stacked Deck only reduces it to a ~37% chance of screwing your party over. Odds are your party won't like it when you use Slots. I can understand wanting to keep an iconic ability, but I'm having trouble seeing how to make it work well.

Stacked Deck, Save the Day, Long Shot, Valor, and Double Up look like fun abilities. Though it's a shame that a Gambler has to wait until level 5/8 to use the "Save the Day + Jinx" combo. =P

Sad to see Last Word go from Once/Combat (in the old version) to Once/Session. Makes it seem like a weak choice.

I feel that Wildfire could use some tweaking though. A ~16.7% chance of "mega-critting" a team-mate, ~41.7% of "critting" a random enemy or ally... Assuming that they party has the same number of people as the enemy group, that's a ~1/3 chance of hitting a party member for a LOT of damage. Like Slots, Wildfire requires a precious use of Stacked Deck in order to be usable...

If Long Shot's (or Valor's) bonus applied to Wildfire, they would make an interesting combo which could help bring the Gambler up to par. But based on the way Long Shot (or Valor) is worded, it doesn't seem to apply.

As always, Cheat Fate is goofy and fun, and is probably the only way a Gambler is ever going to see a Jackpot on Slots.

[DruidJP585]

Since I am currently in negotiations for a game using the presently provided system I also have a vested interest in keeping it available and up-to-date.
Likewise. There are three games going on sup/tg that revolve around the old system.

I have been thinking about how to scale geomancer using the old system like we talked about, but I have only come up with this for geotrance:
(Stat * Weapon/Armor Tier) + 2d6. Where Stat is the weapon stat if you are using a weapon as a focus, or the VIT stat if you are using armor as a focus.
...still leaves a geomancer out of luck if both are destroyed or removed.




I, for fun, am going through all the old status effects :p.

Mini. I think it should give the user +4 or +6 to their EVA and stealth skills to match their reduced size.

I remember the imp status from FF6. In this system, it would be:
Your special abilities are sealed. You cannot use Abilities or Magic of any type, but can still use skills and take other actions.
Your weapon damage is reduced to X1.
Um...Your MARM and ARM are reduced by 50% (only way I could do it without a base def stat)
Your type becomes Aquan
....Then there would be Imp Gear. :smallsmile:

Imp Gear
Legendary (Special, there exist multiple copies of each item in the world. But they are so rare and unusuable by most, they fall into the category of legends.)

Tier 8 Light Armor: Imp Armor
Indestructible, Special
Special: This metallic shell armor has an ARM score of 1 and a MARM of 150 unless worn by someone inflicted with Imp. When worn by someone with Imp, it has 150 ARM and 150 MARM. While worn by someone Imped, it causes them to absorb water damage and gives them access to the imp spell.

Tier 8 Accessory: Titanium.
Special: This saucer of a headgear, While worn by someone Imped, it causes them to absorb water damage and gives them access to the imp spell.

Tier 8 Weapon: Impartisan.
Indestructible, Special
Special: This reach weapon can be used by anyone, even if they normally cannot use Reach weapons. Unless worn by someone who is Imped, this weapon deals only X1 damage. While worn by someone Imped, it causes them to absorb water damage and gives them access to the imp spell.

Tier 8 Shield: Tortoise Shield.
Indestructible, Special
Special: This shield can be used by anyone, even if they can't use shields. Unless worn by someone who is Imped, this Tortoise Shell Shield provides only 1 ARM and 50 MARM. While worn by someone Imped, it causes them to absorb water damage and gives them access to the imp spell. It also provides 50 ARM and 50 MARM.

Set Bonus: If all 4 of these items are worn at once while imped.
Impartisan gains Break Damage Limit, Triple Critical, Follow through, Precision.
You gain 50 ARM and 50 MARM.
Unless an attack has Piercing or is a critical hit, you only take 1 damage.
You can breathe underwater.
Your STR is treated as if it was 30.
You ignore the effects of Curse.
Just kidding :P While Imp would be fun, the epic gear would be too game breaking, even it limited you to only basic attack and cast Imp.

[Story Time]

Oh, but you were so close to making imp a playable class! :smalltongue:

I remember Mini / Small. I also remember a lot of the beasts from Final Fantasy IV and V. Hm...


It may not matter, but do you all know what I would like? I would like it if those with complaints about the old system would go out and make their own blasted documents. Dust is a real person, busy, and has her own ideas about how her system should work. Every moment spent lengthening the thread with needless natter about, "I think it should work this way," is one moment longer that we all have to wait for an update.

Seriously...make your own home-brew. :smallannoyed:

[Lord Badguy]

So Story Time, if feedback an evil thing?

[Dust]

Oh, let's not start that again. :smalltongue:

I appreciate that someone is thinking about my and the time-sink this project has become - really, I do, far more than you know. But this thread isn't just 'Here, I made a thing, enjoy it if you want.' I'd like the years of effort I've sunk into this to result in a final project that's as good as it can be - and frankly, I feel like I'm getting closer and closer. I read and listen to every bit of feedback, look over every chunk of homebrew, wade through emails and PMs on this board, and observe no less than a dozen games being played every day. And the main reason I do these things is because I WANT the critiques, whether blunt of sugarcoated, generic distaste for something or a potential solution.

I feel the old version is playable with houserules, though I myself am not really a huge fan (making a character just isn't FUN, if you ask me). I also feel that the updates will only improve the game. But knowing that tons of people object to the idea of...let's say, an 8-level system, no matter how elegant and fluid it might work mechanically.....certainly means that I should go back and re-examine things there. And hopefully, with any luck I'll get it out before Christmas.

[DruidJP585]

Oh, but you were so close to making imp a playable class! :smalltongue:

It may not matter, but do you all know what I would like? I would like it if those with complaints about the old system would go out and make their own blasted documents. Dust is a real person, busy, and has her own ideas about how her system should work. Every moment spent lengthening the thread with needless natter about, "I think it should work this way," is one moment longer that we all have to wait for an update.We are making our homebrew...to some degree.

We are also trying out not having the survival limit on the geomancer and balancing it out in one game. In this game we have a Hypello Geomancer call Ride D'Shoopuff whose quote is "No you can't ride d'shoopuf"

In another game both our dragoons got 200% damage on their jump attacks because the of a houserule. We also houseruled that unfluffed magic fizzles.
We also have houseruled characters, a Selkie Entertainer (got thievery as a bonus feature), a Mithra Dark Knight (reskinned veria), a Mandragora Paladin riding a baby Malrboro (got photosynthesis as a bonus feature), a Tonberry Dragoon (got concealed weapons as a bonus feature), and a Vivi style living doll White mage (reskinned android), ...and a hume dragoon. All this in a low 'monster' world (not many dragons, undead, etc) in a kingdom once ruled by Moogles. Once mini comes into play in this game, a house rule will be instated for it.

A Third game is in the works where everyone starts at level 1 and gains a level 4 or below esper to start with, each with their own gm decided stats.

Yeah, we are homebrewing and houseruling, but it takes time to find what is perfect and what is broken. We just started our games.

[Dust]

a Mandragora Paladin riding a baby Malrboro
Confirmed for greatest thing ever.

[Story Time]

[...]a Mandragora Paladin riding a baby Malrboro (got photosynthesis as a bonus feature)[...]


Confirmed for greatest thing ever.

It is certainly an...interesting image. :smalltongue:


Bias-Heavy Explanation Not Meant To Counter Dust's Direction:
To be clear, I dislike and often despise persons who simply pop up and say, "That's broken," or, "That's wrong," without offering any more beyond their empty words. My view has come to be that if an individual is not willing to invest their personal time into constructing some aid in order to make a system better then that individual's critique is worthless. In addition I also feel, rather personally, that a formatted document with clear and concise visual information will be far more effective in presenting one's point than simply saying, "It's wrong! Fix it!"

But Dust has made herself clear that she desires to investigate all conjecture, whether useless or fruitful, and doing so is her prerogative. There is nothing wrong with this choice. It is a good thing.

Nothing of my third and fourth paragraph in my previous post addressed Druid, incidentally. Druid went to the trouble of providing a document.

I would make a general query of Dust for permission to expand the beastiary, particularly that of Final Fantasy V's low level creatures, but I am already forming three personal home-brew documents for a completely different system. Doing more is beyond my scope at the moment. That is my feed-back.

[Kobold-Bard]

...let's say, an 8-level system, no matter how elegant and fluid it might work mechanically...

Maybe it's something you have to see to understand?

[Dust]

Eh. I figure I'm going to try a 15-level system instead, throw the numbers randomly in there and see if the result ends up being workable. Levelling up only 7 times - as much as it might be fantastic mathematically and so on - is simply less fun. I'm starting to agree with the naysayers, at least a little bit.

And for the people who say that sounds like a shallow way to build anything...at this point in time, all I have left to do is math.

[DruidJP585]

@StoryTime
I am all prepared to help analyze the bestiary that exists and fix the stats that don't make sense, if we have a place to do so. I am also prepared to help make a combined bestiary of all the games and their translation into 'FFD6-Disc 1' forms.

@Dust
Nice. 15 levels sounds a whole lot better.
Also, may I have permission to create development wiki called FFDSix.Wikia.com? If not, would you rather create the wikia? I want to transfer the Old Book onto it so constructive discussion can be done for specific classes and features as well as the bestiary (as well as new monster development). I can also transfer new stuff onto it as well.

[Story Time]

...the only thing that I can add to that, Druid, is that I took a smidgeon of free time and tried to apply statistics to one of the canon Final Fantasy characters. The explanation is that I started playing Final Fantasy VI again and asked myself, "What if?" I ended up with an incomplete level thirty end boss named Terra Branford...controlled by a slave crown item. ...and that is the extent of my delving into the beastiary.

As I've said, anything significant beyond the other home-brew that I am involved in is beyond my scope. It's a nice idea at the moment, but too big of a project at this point. Vaporite and Rhodox from the same game stand out to me right now. Perhaps it would be better to attempt a beastiary with all of the level one to five monsters from Final Fantasies IV, V, and VI?

[Kobold-Bard]

I got curious as to how the Blitzball rules would work out, so I made a thread in PbP (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12589675) to recruit for an exhibition match of sorts, just to try them out.

Go on, you know you want to.

[Fearan]

Any chance of someone actually running the FFd6 game?

[Story Time]

...maybe I should apologize. I remember mentioning running Final Fantasy D6 in the general thread here. At one point a fellow member of the forum and I started talking about games and Final Fantasy came up. In the context it came up as a solo game, however, and I am currently waiting for that player's present work-load to settle down before the campaign can begin.

...it may turn into a beta-test of the campaign setting since a bunch of it is home-brew and takes elements liberally from the buffet which is Final Fantasy Plot Device.

So...as unhelpful as this response might be, "Yes, I do plan to run it, and soon, just not quite as openly as I originally planned. I am sorry if that does not meet general expectations."

[Dust]

@StoryTime
I am all prepared to help analyze the bestiary that exists and fix the stats that don't make sense, if we have a place to do so. I am also prepared to help make a combined bestiary of all the games and their translation into 'FFD6-Disc 1' forms.

@Dust
Nice. 15 levels sounds a whole lot better.
Also, may I have permission to create development wiki called FFDSix.Wikia.com? If not, would you rather create the wikia? I want to transfer the Old Book onto it so constructive discussion can be done for specific classes and features as well as the bestiary (as well as new monster development). I can also transfer new stuff onto it as well.
You have my complete permission to do whatever you like with the free rules that I've made. I'm not looking to hold sole ownership over anything at all, nor am I looking to have my name really attached to the final product if it doesn't end up that way.

The update is still coming. Hours upon hours of playtesting, math, and more math.

[wiimanclassic]

Gonna see if I can get a small game running using the oldffd6 rules on another forum.

[Story Time]

Two of my home-brew projects have come to a new level of completion. To celebrate, I thought I'd throw together a sample table for the Final Fantasy D6 thread. Some of the credit goes to another member of the forum for helping me to come to the place where I'd actually want to make the table. I'd give their name, but I haven't asked them yet.

So, hopefully, this will be useful. Just replace the blue text with real content. I left my comments in to show members where they could add comments if they wanted to. So...happy character making and home-brew making to all! :smallsmile:



{table=head]{colsp=3}
FINAL FANTASY D6 CHARACTER SHEET

NAME|{colsp=2}( Fill This In )
{colsp=3}
{colsp=2}RACE|
{colsp=3}
LANGUAGE|{colsp=2}
{colsp=3}
{colsp=2}JOB|
{colsp=3}
LEVEL|{colsp=2}00
{colsp=3}
{colsp=2}QUOTE|
{colsp=3}( Insert [BR]Quote [BR] Here )
{colsp=3}
GAINS|{colsp=2}
Destiny|3|
Experience|0|
Gil|100|
{colsp=2}|
FF D6

{colsp=3}
ATTRIBUTES|{colsp=2}
Strength|00|00
Vitality|00|00
Dexterity|00|00
Intelligence|00|00
Spirit|00|00
{colsp=2}|
RANK

{colsp=3}
SKILLS|{colsp=2}
Acting|00|00
Athletics|00|00
Awareness|00|00
Disguise|00|00/00
Escape|00|00
Healing|00|00
Inquiry|00|00/00
Languages|00|00
Lore(??)|00|00
Negotiation|00|00
Perform|00|00
Ride|00|00/00
Stealth|00|00
Survival|00|00
Swim|00|00/00
Synthesis|00|00
Systems|00|00
Thievery|00|00
Trade|00|00
Vehicles|00|00
{colsp=3}Seriously, your character can't cook or anything?
{colsp=2}|
MAX

{colsp=3}
STATISTICS|{colsp=2}
Health Points| |00
Magick Points| |00
Evasion| |00
Accuracy| |00
{colsp=2}|
FF D6

{colsp=3}
ABILITIES|{colsp=2}
{colsp=2}
Shared|
{colsp=3}( Insert Name )
{colsp=3}( Description )
{colsp=2}
Epic|
{colsp=3}( Insert Name )
{colsp=3}( Description )
{colsp=2}
Innate|
{colsp=3}( Insert Name )
{colsp=3}( Description )
{colsp=2}
Job|
{colsp=3}( Ability One )
{colsp=3}( Description )
{colsp=3}( Ability Two ( page 14 ))
{colsp=3}( Description )
{colsp=2}|
FF D6

{colsp=3}
ARTS|{colsp=2}
{colsp=3}( Art One )
{colsp=3}( Art Two )
{colsp=3}( Art Three )
{colsp=3}( Art Four )
{colsp=3}For the missing Art I'd recommend Soulful Etude, [BR]Performance of Lightning, or Victory March. Those [BR]might fit your character.
{colsp=2}|
FF D6

{colsp=3}
MAGICK|{colsp=2}
{colsp=2}( Insert Name and -> | Rank )
|
MP |( Insert Cost )
{colsp=3}( Insert Description )[BR]( Use carriage return (BR) commands )[BR]( Use DIV commands )
{colsp=2}|
FF D6

{colsp=3}
EQUIPMENT|{colsp=2}
{colsp=3}( Yet to be filled. )
{colsp=2}|
TWO ITEMS

{colsp=3}
INVENTORY|{colsp=2}
{colsp=3}( Yet to be filled. )
{colsp=2}|
TEN ITEMS

{colsp=3}
LIMIT BREAKS|{colsp=2}
{colsp=2}( Insert Name and ->| Level )
{colsp=3}( Insert Description )[BR]( Use carriage return (BR) commands )[BR]( Use DIV commands )
{colsp=2}|
FF D6
[/table]

Table Code:


{table=head]{colsp=3}
FINAL FANTASY D6 CHARACTER SHEET

NAME|{colsp=2}( Fill This In )
{colsp=3}
{colsp=2}RACE|
{colsp=3}
LANGUAGE|{colsp=2}
{colsp=3}
{colsp=2}JOB|
{colsp=3}
LEVEL|{colsp=2}00
{colsp=3}
{colsp=2}QUOTE|
{colsp=3}( Insert [BR]Quote [BR] Here )
{colsp=3}
GAINS|{colsp=2}
Destiny|3|
Experience|0|
Gil|100|
{colsp=2}|
FF D6

{colsp=3}
ATTRIBUTES|{colsp=2}
Strength|00|00
Vitality|00|00
Dexterity|00|00
Intelligence|00|00
Spirit|00|00
{colsp=2}|
RANK

{colsp=3}
SKILLS|{colsp=2}
Acting|00|00
Athletics|00|00
Awareness|00|00
Disguise|00|00/00
Escape|00|00
Healing|00|00
Inquiry|00|00/00
Languages|00|00
Lore(??)|00|00
Negotiation|00|00
Perform|00|00
Ride|00|00/00
Stealth|00|00
Survival|00|00
Swim|00|00/00
Synthesis|00|00
Systems|00|00
Thievery|00|00
Trade|00|00
Vehicles|00|00
{colsp=3}Seriously, your character can't cook or anything?
{colsp=2}|
MAX

{colsp=3}
STATISTICS|{colsp=2}
Health Points| |00
Magick Points| |00
Evasion| |00
Accuracy| |00
{colsp=2}|
FF D6

{colsp=3}
ABILITIES|{colsp=2}
{colsp=2}
Shared|
{colsp=3}( Insert Name )
{colsp=3}( Description )
{colsp=2}
Epic|
{colsp=3}( Insert Name )
{colsp=3}( Description )
{colsp=2}
Innate|
{colsp=3}( Insert Name )
{colsp=3}( Description )
{colsp=2}
Job|
{colsp=3}( Ability One )
{colsp=3}( Description )
{colsp=3}( Ability Two ( page 14 ))
{colsp=3}( Description )
{colsp=2}|
FF D6

{colsp=3}
ARTS|{colsp=2}
{colsp=3}( Art One )
{colsp=3}( Art Two )
{colsp=3}( Art Three )
{colsp=3}( Art Four )
{colsp=3}For the missing Art I'd recommend Soulful Etude, [BR]Performance of Lightning, or Victory March. Those [BR]might fit your character.
{colsp=2}|
FF D6

{colsp=3}
MAGICK|{colsp=2}
{colsp=2}( Insert Name and -> | Rank )
|
MP |( Insert Cost )
{colsp=3}( Insert Description )[BR]( Use carriage return (BR) commands )[BR]( Use DIV commands )
{colsp=2}|
FF D6

{colsp=3}
EQUIPMENT|{colsp=2}
{colsp=3}( Yet to be filled. )
{colsp=2}|
TWO ITEMS

{colsp=3}
INVENTORY|{colsp=2}
{colsp=3}( Yet to be filled. )
{colsp=2}|
TEN ITEMS

{colsp=3}
LIMIT BREAKS|{colsp=2}
{colsp=2}( Insert Name and ->| Level )
{colsp=3}( Insert Description )[BR]( Use carriage return (BR) commands )[BR]( Use DIV commands )
{colsp=2}|
FF D6
[/table]

[Mono Vertigo]

Whoa! Thanks a lot for the table! :smallsmile:

[Story Time]

Welcome. :smallsmile: Thank you in return.

[DruidJP585]

Can Arts be used in Team Attacks?
Does Weapon of Choice damage get reduced if done so?

[Story Time]

Hm. Thinking...thinking...

I'd like an official answer about this too, honestly.

Teamwork Attacks are Standard Actions. The Innate Ability: Art states that Art is a Standard Action ( it really should say this on page one hundred ten, that Arts and Magick are Standard rather than Slow and that different types of Standard Actions can over-lap in the same turn; a list of what could occur on the same turn would be even better. ).


The effects of Arts are as long as the Entertainer sustains them, and their usage does not interfere with other combat actions. A juggler can continue to attack and use skills whilst keeping an Art active, and a dancer can keep the air around her crackling with electricity for days on end.
And finally, except during the Entertainer’s Fantasia epic ability, only one Art can be kept active at any given time, whether Reversed or Normal.

So...apparently...Arts are immediately compatible with Teamwork Attacks. The only real question is whether a GameMaster would require an Art to begin on the turn before other Actions, or not. Weapon of Choice is a Job Skill and has Passive and Self as key-words. So, yes, it should fit neatly into any attack action, including Teamwork Attacks, even if those Standard Actions are sustained by other Arts.


Also! Dust? One of the down-load links in the first post is inoperative, I think?

[Chappu]

I played this system awhile back on rpol.net and have been following it abit like a ghost for awhile now. I resurrected my old account on here simply to say the following:

I have to say this is an amazing work! I absolutely adore your work!

[Lynx]

I was wondering with regards to a Dragoons innate "Jump" are they still able to be targeted by anything that has medium range such as spells and Ranged weapons?

[Story Time]

Welcome to the thread, Chappu and Lynx. :smallsmile:



I was wondering with regards to a Dragoons innate "Jump" are they still able to be targeted by anything that has medium range such as spells and Ranged weapons?

The short answer is that, "Spending Destiny can hurt a Dragoon in-flight." Read through the Epic Abilities of each job for more information. To start, here are some relevant quotes.


Innate Ability: Jump – Slow, Special
[...]
Jump can carry the Dragoon up to a Medium range – vertically, horizontally, or both. Upon using Jump the Dragoon takes to the sky and their turn immediately ends. Until the beginning of the Dragoon’s next turn the character is considered to be soaring through the air, and the Dragoon is Immune to any negative or beneficial Single-target attacks or spells. Status Conditions continue to affect the Dragoon ‘in-flight’, and the character can still be affected by Group-targeting attacks. As with any Slow Action, anything that would prevent the Dragoon from completing the Jump will automatically cancel it, returning her to the field of battle.


Slow Actions are longer effects that require concentration, time, or both.
[...]
A character under the influence of the Haste status essentially gets an extra half-turn. They may move an additional range increment OR take a second standard action, OR they may allow a Slow action to begin and finish in one turn.


High Jump – Passive
[...]
First, the Dragoon’s Jump ability is now Long range instead of Medium. GMs may choose to rule that travelling extreme distances may require more than one round for dramatic effect, however.

[asurai]

New here, joined honestly because while getting a game together for this one of my members got the download link for the old PDF and told me it didn't work. I was like, "Wait, what do you mean it didn't work?". So I checked this thread, no new posts. On a whim decided to check out the first post. Sure enough Dust is saying how the new version is apparently going up if I understand the edit properly. If that is the case then. X3 Happy days. Very excited to see how the update turns out, because me and my group loved the old so hoping they love the new update just as much.

[Dust]

Ah, yes. Sorry about that! :smallbiggrin: It only went down a few hours ago; I figured nobody would notice if I didn't say anything, but I had to put a stop to the endless torrent of questions somehow. And I'm two months later than my expected finish date, so it's about bloody time anyway. Just formatting and it'll be good to go.

[asurai]

Ah, no need to apologize of course~ I just wanted to state how excited I was. X3 Looking forward to getting to see all the new since I, and my group, just very recently found this, aka. only a few days ago >.>;, and we were waiting just incase the update came out before playing by the old version. And lo and behold it's now coming. So happy days. Thank you for all your hard work~! We very much so appreciate it.

[Mulcibaer]

Hey Dust, are you (or anyone else, for that matter) planning on hosting or posting the older version? I can perceive that version branching if the new version is somewhat radically different (as the class preview made it seem like it would be).

[steelsmiter]

Hey Dust, are you (or anyone else, for that matter) planning on hosting or posting the older version? I can perceive that version branching if the new version is somewhat radically different (as the class preview made it seem like it would be).

I can only cross my fingers... there was some discussion about starting up some wiki for the Old FFd6 but it hasn't amounted to much.

[Dust]

I won't be, contrary to popular request. I'm sure you'll be able to track down a copy somewhere. Sorry. =(

[wiimanclassic]

Why not just keep the old link in the op for anyone who cared....gonna upload to mediafire I guess. Or is there a better hosting site?
http://www.mediafire.com/?0uz86bv614naf91

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/59000492/Old%20FFd6.zip

[Falcon777]

wow, still at it, huh dust? I must say that I'm amazed at the amount of work you've put into this and more importantly how you have continued to work on it despite how much flak you've received for different aspects to this game. Kudos to ya.

I was looking through the spells today and found something interesting. Black magic has a spell in tier 4 for specifically dealing shadow damage, while White magic has no counterpart. Was this because there was no canon counterpart? Or did you not have time to come up with one? If you want, I could do so.

[Dust]

...despite how much flak you've received for different aspects to this game.
Hah, you're telling me. Luckily, the support and compliments balance out the hatemail. It's surprising that so many people get so worked up over something free that exists out there on the interwebs for them to take or leave at their leisure.

I was looking through the spells today and found something interesting. Black magic has a spell in tier 4 for specifically dealing shadow damage, while White magic has no counterpart. Was this because there was no canon counterpart?
That's exactly it. :smallbiggrin: I've added a few more fun White Magic spells appropriate to that rank, but still nothing that deals Holy damage. If you come up with something from canon, do let me know; I think the system could probably use it.

[Vauron]

That's exactly it. :smallbiggrin: I've added a few more fun White Magic spells appropriate to that rank, but still nothing that deals Holy damage. If you come up with something from canon, do let me know; I think the system could probably use it.

While technically they were really just renamed versions of Holy for censorship reasons, why not use Fade*, White**, or Pearl***?

*FF1 on NES
**FF4 on SNES
***FF6 on SNES and PSX

[wiimanclassic]

Saintly Beam?(Enemy only though....)

Italian: Sancta - Latin word for "holy"

Spanish: Sanctus

French: Sidéral (meaning "Sidereal"), Sacre (meaning "Coronation"), or Lumière (meaning "Light")

German: Sanctus

[Mono Vertigo]

Actually, I'm pretty certain the French version isn't Sacre, but Sacré (pesky accents used to go missing once in a while), which means... err... Holy.
Other than that, yep, naming a few Holy-damage spells Fade/White/Pearl could be nice. :smallsmile:

[wiimanclassic]

Actually, I'm pretty certain the French version isn't Sacre, but Sacré (pesky accents used to go missing once in a while), which means... err... Holy.
Other than that, yep, naming a few Holy-damage spells Fade/White/Pearl could be nice. :smallsmile:

I got it from the FF wiki entry on holy so...

[steelsmiter]

It would make quite a bit of sense if they left the accent out of the wiki as you can't just throw in an apostrophe and get it to equal an accent. Nevermind the fact that the user editability of a wiki makes it at best semi reliable.

[Story Time]

A wiki is not a reliable resource for education. Casual data, maybe, but not for the professional-grade learning which a student should expect.

For instance: Sanctus is Latin. Santa is Spanish.

In Ragnarok Online ( yes, the MMORPG ) there was a skill called Sanctuary where any creatures that were not considered pure were hurt or annihilated if they walked on it. This conversation makes me think of that.

[Falcon777]

Hey Dust, just out of curiosity, how come the holy element is more expensive in limit breaks and requires a higher tier on weapons? I guess I"m a little confused because when I went through the bestiary (I AM keeping in mind that that portion of the document has had less work), just about the only monsters that had weakness or vulnerability to the holy element were fiends and the undead (exceptions of some bosses and a couple random monsters to this rule were in there, obviously). Are fiends and the undead really THAT bad or THAT numerous?

[Namillus]

It's not that the fiends and undead are dangerous, it's that if you take a Holy element Limit Break or put Holy Strike on a weapon, you have essentially a powerful non-elemental attack that ALSO deals massive damage to things weak to it, because less monsters resist Holy than are weak to it. The 'basic' elements, by comparison, are resisted about as often as they're a weakness.

[Ninja_Grand]

Is there a ETA on the link? This sounds so good. may just play it!

Hoping this is like FFX not FFXIII (Still have nightmares bout that one :smalleek:) in terms of Awesome.

[Falcon777]

Hm. I suppose that makes sense, Namillus. Though that still doesn't solve the problem of the lack of a tier 4 holy offensive spell. And I don't accept healing spells as holy spells, despite the fact that the undead are affected in that manner. Unfortunately, Dust, in this case I do believe that improving the system with balance would be better than sticking to canon. And that is really the problem with anytime you must choose between canon vs class/magic/any kind of game balance. If the original writers of a game didn't do it in the first place, I imagine that they had good reasons, well, at least I imagine that they THOUGHT they had good reasons. And given Final Fantasy's theatrical nature, completely balancing the magic system might not have been on their top ten to-do list. But a table top game where theatrics are played out in our imaginations and the descriptions we give characters and their actions that are for all intents and purposes imaginary means that game balance is a lot more important than before. Not enough to simply chuck out canon material, but I for one would say it's enough to solve this problem by finding an appropriate spell name and slap it onto a group holy elemental spell that deals (INT x 8) + 2d6 points of damage to all enemies. All this is not to say that I think you haven't done an incredible job with this game, because you have. But I can't agree with square enix if they think that it's ok to make one holy elemental spell (epic level or not) while making several levels of shadow elemental spells. As you can see, I'm clearly biased. :smallbiggrin: I hope that doesn't offend you.

[Namillus]

It seems like Dust has already made decisions like that - the majority of the Shadow Black Magics in the book are Drain and Rasp and their superior forms, which, while Non-Elemental in the Games proper kind of make sense as Shadow.

That said, it is a Bit Weird to not use the names of the rest of the Dia series (Diara, Diaga, and Diaja) from FF1 when they're available.

However, there is a high probability that the magic list is enhanced for the new version.

[Lynx]

Also: I don't know if this was spotted but the spell "Meteorite" on page 181 claims "Target: Single" but the description says "damage to all enemies". Based on the description/cost/damage I presume it means to actually be a group attack and not a single target spell.

[Kobold-Bard]

Also: I don't know if this was spotted but the spell "Meteorite" on page 181 claims "Target: Single" but the description says "damage to all enemies". Based on the description/cost/damage I presume it means to actually be a group attack and not a single target spell.

It's been noted previously, it's a Target: Group spell.

[Jamin]

Any idea when this will be done I want to know if I should just use the old version for the campaign i have planed it will most likely be in about 4 weeks.

[Dust]

My estimate is about a week. That could change to be YEARS, however, knowing how I do things.

[Torbera]

My estimate is about a week. That could change to be YEARS, however, knowing how I do things.

Years? Oh, dear, Dust, I hope you're just pulling our leg!

However long it takes, though, I shall wait. This game is too good for me not to have the new version!

[asurai]

I will have to agree with the poster above me~ Though I wanted to start my FFD6 campaign with the newer version we decided since the wait is longer then expected to go with the old version. And we played last night for the first time and it was amazing. So fast and fluid. We got way more done and way more fun I would like to think then if we did D&D, for example. The fast pace kept people on their toes and instead of trying to play it as a game the players were more so actually getting in character and treating it like an experience of sorts.

[Falcon777]

Hey Dust, I was recently looking through skill checks and noticed that one example of a successful Heroic action (difficulty 15 under the the tab skills in defining a hero) was the creation of a powerful weapon. I know that this kind of game often has the gm making decisions on the spot, but I was curious to know if you meant that to mean a tier 7 or a tier 8 weapon.

[Dust]

I believe it was actually something like a Tier 4 weapon, though I'd actually have to download the old books and check to give you a definite answer. Someone else could probably give you a more accurate response. The synthesis (crafting) difficulties for each tier of weapon are listed, I believe in the equipment section.
In that context, 'powerful' means like, 'rocket launcher.'

[Story Time]

Download the past manuals?! Dust, did you suffer a surprise format or some-such?

In any case, to those wondering about which version to run, the only sensible thing to do is use the version available and run it. I still have my copy of the manual.

[Dust]

I....I don't want to talk about it. *stares off into the distance with a pained look in her eye*

Anyway, just finishing correcting all the bestiary entries now. Was hoping to get something on FFXIV but that doesn't seem likely. Maybe an index if I feel like it. Few more days if all goes well.

Edit: Whoop. Slightly longer. Still generally on-schedule though.

[Story Time]

Very well. In better news, I started my first play-test of the previous system. Finally. :smalltongue: Things are becoming interesting with rolls, but there's been no player-character combat yet.

I'm still thinking about making a Level-One-Bestiary for Final Fantasy D6 with Druid. One of my home-brew projects is on hold due to...ethical reasons. :smalleek:

[Dust]

The new book will be up on Wednesday. I'm finished now, just waiting for a few last people to grant approval for picture-use and taking my time building the index. Thanks for all your patience.

[Torbera]

The new book will be up on Wednesday.

:smallbiggrin: Aww yeah~! Thems the words I've been waiting for right there. Book up Wednesday, just enough time to get a read and get my game going friday.

[edsaurus]

The book with the new system? cool!

[asurai]

Oh, yeah! Super stoked about seeing the upgrade! =D Me and my group are enjoying the system so far. So here's to hoping when we convert we'll get even more fun times. Thanks for all of your hard work, Dust!

[Kobold-Bard]

The new book will be up on Wednesday. I'm finished now, just waiting for a few last people to grant approval for picture-use and taking my time building the index. Thanks for all your patience.

Awesome. (http://www.yeeeeeeeeeeeeeees.com/)

[Story Time]

Congratulations, Dust! Here, have a fanfare (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-4E7u84wSA). :smallbiggrin:

[wiimanclassic]

So what would be the easiest way to convert homebrew to the new edition? The preview we got a few months ago had 4 stats then 2 based on those didn't it? Any advice or?

[Dust]

I don't imagine it'll be too hard - like, at all. The two substats are just a simplified version of Attribute Ratings - which was always a dumb idea - and characters using the old rules should even be able to convert pretty easily (with the exception of people who dabbled in Freelancer stuff, who are pretty much going to be up a certain creek).

[Dust]

I still quite haven't worked out how to transform a microsoft word document, done on a mac, into a PDF file where the quality isn't massively degraded. That's something I'll be working on over the next 24 hours or so in order to get the appearance of the document out of the gutter, at which point this download link will vanish and a new one will appear on the front page.
I'm only posting this today because a very good friend informed me they'd murder me if I put things off for another day or two. :smallyuk:

- Tentative download link to awful-quality version - (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?h1kh95nhp81ogj4)

In the coming few weeks, I'll be;
- Filling up the Bestiary to be chock-full of creatures after a bit more high-level playtesting to determine whether or not the given ARM and M.ARM scores are a little too low or just right.
- Adjusting abilities/combinations of abilities that are either too good or deemed sub-par by players
- Fixing the many typos that are sure to be found
- Seriously considering getting rid of Unburdened Soul, the Samurai special ability
- Rebuild the character sheet into something that looks spiffy with my amateur photoshop skillz
- Generally realizing it's 2012 and I've missed so much! Like Skyrim!

Over the next few months, I MIGHT;
- Go back and reorganize all the job abilities to be alphabetical
- Ditto with monster abilities
- Add the FFXIV section
- Add rules for multiple summons on the field together at once, and multi-user teamwork attacks

[wiimanclassic]

Small error in the story for Deathbringer. In the after math, the wielder of the Deathbringer TOOK residence

You list a godlike difficulty for the check to make a legendary weapon. Its Impossible, not godlike when its shown how hard to make a weapon.
Godlike is tier 7.
Will look for other small errors.


Also, I made the thanks section. WOOHOO!

[Kobold-Bard]

...

- Tentative download link to awful-quality version - (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?h1kh95nhp81ogj4)

...

Hooray! Let the endless nitpicking begin :smallamused:

Nah seriously, you rule.

[Temotei]

Under Combat Statistics (pg. 6 of the book, 10 in the .pdf file), you have "Magic Points (HP)", which should have MP in parentheses.

I'll look for more and revise my homebrew once I get a better look at the new stuff.

[wiimanclassic]

Anyone wanna right up a guide to character creation? Or converting homebrew classes.

MP bonus doesn't seem to have been converted uniformly like HP has, for HP it seems to have just been a straight +12 to the old class hp.
NVM. Only applied ot the first 3 classes.

Although it does seem to stay in the realm of +10-12


I plan to use the old races. No mechanical difference is kinda...lame.

Grafts are out now too? Dang it. I liked those.

So other then the stat changes are there any OTHER features changed or removed enough to not be similar or a purely cosmetic thing now?

Note to self. Redo entire character for pbp on other forum. Concept is pretty much scrapped anyway. Or stay with the old edition....hm. Seems simple to just port grafts and stuff forward I guess. Racial bonuses are easy. IDK what to do.

[Dust]

I like grafts, too. It's a shame that it got dumbed down to just another type of mechanical pro/con. Maybe I'll sit down and put some serious thought into it at some point in the future and bring 'em back.

[wiimanclassic]

So question, why remove racial bonuses? They weren't major things except or the Baanga one. They just helped define each race as more then "Like a human but" and keep it from being a purely cosmetic thing.

[Temotei]

Under Aim, you call it Take Aim.

[Break]

Overall, I'm liking what I'm reading. A few typoes that make intent unclear, but I think it's an improvement overall. Some of the more major ones I caught, though:

Black Mage's Specialization for Fire has (PWR x 0) in the formula. (p 19)

Red Mage is missing its Innate job ability (p 75).

[Dust]

The PWR x 0 isn't a typo, odd as that is. Since the actual ability belongs to increases Fire damage by one or more steps, we figuring having it start at 0 was a less ambiquitous wording than starting at PWR x 1, and then trying to figure out if the ability increased that or not.

Runic is a Red Mage's innate, but you probably guessed that. I'll make sure I label that asap.

[Ragingsystem]

If anyone is planning on testing the new version I'd love to be a player!

[Story Time]

For Dust:

I still quite haven't worked out how to transform a microsoft word document, done on a mac, into a PDF file where the quality isn't massively degraded. That's something I'll be working on over the next 24 hours or so in order to get the appearance of the document out of the gutter, at which point this download link will vanish and a new one will appear on the front page.

I'm only posting this today because a very good friend informed me they'd murder me if I put things off for another day or two. :smallyuk:

Dust's friend was right... Keeping promises is important. :smallwink:

That said, I... I...

:smallfrown:


I like the previous one better. ...:smallsigh:... I don't want to be mean. But I'm also expected to be honest. I should be honest... Please take the following with...caution. It really is only one person's opinion. But since Dust has made it clear that she wants responses, I'll add some thoughts here:

There's a lot of formatting issues with the new release which I'm sure can be corrected. It'd be really nice to have a version number either in the manual, on the file, or both. I made a temporary one for mine.

There were some art experiments in this release. There's just way too much white in the early pages. This is exacerbated by wide text taking up most of the page rather than being organized into neat columns. It is also exacerbated by the monotonous font(s?) ( and the minimally-varying-text-sizes ) used through the manual. It is pretty clear, but too white.

Later in the manual the monotony of white and black is thankfully broken up by tables with shades of gray in their background. I would recommend to use this function in some way in the Job and Skill sections so as to increase the legibility of the material. If Dust wishes some fonts, I can point in the direction of functional and free ones.

What I really want is that paper-like background back...but that's just an opinion. :smallfrown:

The crystal images for the Job summary section turned out much better than I thought they would. The crystals in the Job Ability lists, however, struck me as too large, but that was also coupled with the really wide text. My impression of the Magick section was roughly the same as this: too wide, and too bi-tonal. The Summons section was a little better with the introduction of blue text into the columns, but remained roughly the same.

The shadows next to the images for each Job...look really really superfluous. Impotent...aimless...non-sequitur...ridiculous...dumb... I wish I had the right word, but with all of that blank open white behind the black text those shadows do not seem to fit. I know that this is only my personal opinion, but I can not emphasize strongly enough ( even if I do it quietly like this ) how much I think those shadows should be removed, background or no.

The Bestiary summary section had some neat little icons. I liked them. If they had been actually used in the rest of the Bestiary-section-Proper, it would have made more sense and looked much better. I also think that the Bestiary-section-proper could use some organization-into-monster-types, and then list the monsters in those types from one to [maximum], but that is just...my practical side being noisy.

Example:

Arcana

Arial
Aquan
Cosmic
Earthen
Terrestrial
Beast

Arial
Aquan
Cosmic
Earthen
Terrestrial
Construct

Arial
Aquan
Cosmic
Earthen
Terrestrial
Humanoid

Arial
Aquan
Cosmic
Earthen
Terrestrial
Plant

Arial
Aquan
Cosmic
Earthen
Terrestrial
Undead

Arial
Aquan
Cosmic
Earthen
Terrestrial


The reason I suggest this is because a full Bestiary will have a lot of creatures in it. ...and GameMasters are going to to determine their battles by terrain type. The environment where a monster can be found is pretty important, especially if someone comes along later and says, "I want to make a custom map for my Final Fantasy game!" I know that I already made one.

On page two hundred sixty one, in the bestiary section, there is a moogle with speech bubbles and explanations. That entire rectangle of concept expression is perfect! The quality of the images are not the best, but the design and intent is quite good. Good job with that. :smallsmile:

The Bestiary-Section-Proper tried out some neat stuff. The panels and the art were pretty good, but I silently wondered while I read it if all the work was...justified. Many of those status icons, the darker ones, seemed more difficult to read in the Affected By bubble because of that half-black background. I haven't thought of any immediate way to rectify this. So while I think the design idea is neat for the bestiary entries I really believe that the execution must be stepped up a few notches. I may change my mind when the higher quality version comes out. We'll see...

I also realized for the first time today that Chapter VI does not belong. The World chapter could be its own companion manual. Sure, it offers some mechanical, monster, and racial information of the numerical sort, but the majority of it is setting information which makes an already...long document longer.

One companion manual could be for the Final Fantasy game settings, another could be for the home-brew thread. Yet another could be for races and such, but the lion's share of starting players are all going to play hume characters, even if they all want to play dragoons. :smalltongue:

So that's another thought, I guess. Less document-cramming.

I still have the want to add to the Bestiary section. That could be it's own companion manual too, I think, but maybe it shouldn't be because the player characters need something to smite for leveling and conflict purposes.

...I sent a message to Druid at one point about expanding the Bestiary, but did not receive a reply. So while I am still able to do that I wonder if I should begin doing so at all. ...:smallconfused:...

I'm just so sorry... I wish I had more nice things to say... I feel terrible...

Above all, though, I want to say, "Thanks. Thanks, Dust, for putting the manual out there."