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View Full Version : How to Build an Unarmed Kensai -- All Advice Welcome!



wayfare
2010-10-30, 02:07 PM
Hey all:

I have a GM who has ruled out the Tome of Battle as play material. How do you think an unarmed Kensai would compare to a Unarmed Swordsage.

The starting build is a Level 1 Human fighter with:

Str 16
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 14
Cha 10

all feats are up for grabs.

Or would starting out as a monk be a better idea?

Cog
2010-10-30, 02:20 PM
Consider Barbarian instead, and definitely look into Fist of the Forest PrC.

See if your DM will allow the Snap Kick feat. It's out of ToB, but it doesn't have that maneuver-flavor, and so might be acceptable if that's why you aren't allowed to use the book.

Edit: Oh, right, Kensai's lawful, so you can't stack Rage and Power Surge. Duskblade, then? You get a handful of utility spells and two out of three of Kensai's required class skills. You won't stay in it long enough to notice your low INT, if you choose your spells wisely.

Radar
2010-10-30, 03:16 PM
The epitome of unarmed awesomeness:
Fistbeard Beardfist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116838)

This build contains some very interesting tricks - the drunkard part is optional.

Dr.Epic
2010-10-30, 03:32 PM
I had an idea for a shifter that goes Kensai with its claws being it's weapon. I was was aiming for a Wolverine build (probably go Warshaper first). I haven't decided what weapon abilities to add to it to make them like Wolverine's adamantium claws.

Urpriest
2010-10-30, 03:36 PM
The epitome of unarmed awesomeness:
Fistbeard Beardfist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116838)

This build contains some very interesting tricks - the drunkard part is optional.

No, it really really isn't. What kind of dwarf runs around not drunk?

absolmorph
2010-10-30, 03:40 PM
No, it really really isn't. What kind of dwarf runs around not drunk?
A bad one.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-10-30, 03:52 PM
I had an idea for a shifter that goes Kensai with its claws being it's weapon. I was was aiming for a Wolverine build (probably go Warshaper first). I haven't decided what weapon abilities to add to it to make them like Wolverine's adamantium claws.

Metalline is a +2 equivalent enchancement found in the MIC that lets the weapon enchanted to work as silvered, cold iron, mithral, or adamantine for the purpose of DR (and maybe hardness, I can't recall the reading exactly).

... collision another +2 enchancement, is a flat +5 damge increase (that multiplies on critical hits) so it might be useful.

Deth Muncher
2010-10-30, 03:52 PM
Your weapons should be your fists, and you should have throwing/returning applied to them.


ROCKETFISTS.

Dr.Epic
2010-10-30, 03:54 PM
Metalline is a +2 equivalent enchancement found in the MIC that lets the weapon enchanted to work as silvered, cold iron, mithral, or adamantine for the purpose of DR (and maybe hardness, I can't recall the reading exactly).

... collision another +2 enchancement, is a flat +5 damge increase (that multiplies on critical hits) so it might be useful.

Cool. What books?

Forget what book this is in, but there's a bonus that heals you 1/2 the damage you dealt which would help imitate Wolverine's regenerative properties. I think it's a +2 bonus.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-10-30, 03:59 PM
Metalline is in Magic Item compendium, Collision is in the expanded psionic handbook and the SRD.

The one you are thinking is most likely Wrathful Healing, I think it is in Book of exalted deeds, but I don't know.. other option if less reliable is the bodyfeeder, which gives you temp hp when you crit (improved critical or keen enchantment is almost mandatory in this case)

Urpriest
2010-10-30, 04:00 PM
Warshaper's fast healing is already a pretty good approximation of Wolverine's regenerative powers, really. Anything more accurate would involve getting into actual regeneration.

Dr.Epic
2010-10-30, 04:08 PM
Metalline is in Magic Item compendium, Collision is in the expanded psionic handbook and the SRD.

The one you are thinking is most likely Wrathful Healing, I think it is in Book of exalted deeds, but I don't know.. other option if less reliable is the bodyfeeder, which gives you temp hp when you crit (improved critical or keen enchantment is almost mandatory in this case)

I know it wasn't in BoED, and I know it was temporary hit points. I'll check my books later and see if I can find it.


Warshaper's fast healing is already a pretty good approximation of Wolverine's regenerative powers, really. Anything more accurate would involve getting into actual regeneration.

I always thought Wolverine's regenerative powers were better, though maybe that's just because he has an adamantium skeleton underneath. Either way, it wouldn't hurt to figure out a way to get better healing powers.

wayfare
2010-10-30, 04:22 PM
Thanks for the help, all.

Does anyone know if there is a better version of improved unarmed strike floating out there?

Also, a question about the kensai -- can a kensai enhance an item that has already been enhanced? For example, if I have a +5 longsword can i use my kensai powers to give it a further +5 bonus or even a +10 bonus?

Finally, back in the 3.0 DMG, a hypothetical situation was brought up -- a traveling tattooist can create magic tattoos for characters that duplicate spell or item effects. was anything ever done with this idea? If so, where? (not counting the tattooed monk, of course)

Radar
2010-10-30, 04:23 PM
I know it wasn't in BoED, and I know it was temporary hit points. I'll check my books later and see if I can find it.



I always thought Wolverine's regenerative powers were better, though maybe that's just because he has an adamantium skeleton underneath. Either way, it wouldn't hurt to figure out a way to get better healing powers.
Some Crusader levels perhaps? I'm not sure, how well would it mesh with unarmed combat, but it has healing capabilities.

Cog
2010-10-30, 05:07 PM
Does anyone know if there is a better version of improved unarmed strike floating out there?

Superior Unarmed Strike: ToB, again. This is why Fist of the Forest is nice; it gets you to d10 fists plus some other goodies, and it's only three levels, leaving you plenty of space for your other fun stuff.

Greensleeve
2010-10-30, 05:26 PM
Does anyone know if there is a better version of improved unarmed strike floating out there?

See Cog's answer. You might want to consider greater/mighty wallop, which are spells from Races of the Dragon. They can be a bit cheesy though.


Also, a question about the kensai -- can a kensai enhance an item that has already been enhanced? For example, if I have a +5 longsword can i use my kensai powers to give it a further +5 bonus or even a +10 bonus?

Don't see why not. There is nothing in the Complete Warrior that suggests otherwise. You can't go above a +10 bonus though.


Finally, back in the 3.0 DMG, a hypothetical situation was brought up -- a traveling tattooist can create magic tattoos for characters that duplicate spell or item effects. was anything ever done with this idea? If so, where? (not counting the tattooed monk, of course)

Not that I know of, but it shouldn't be hard to do. There are rules in the DMG for creating custom items and they include rules for creating stuff that duplicates spells, even slot-less ones such as tattoos.

The Dark Fiddler
2010-10-30, 05:44 PM
Not that I know of, but it shouldn't be hard to do. There are rules in the DMG for creating custom items and they include rules for creating stuff that duplicates spells, even slot-less ones such as tattoos.

Also, the XPH has Psionic Tattoos (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/psionicTattoos.htm).

Greensleeve
2010-10-30, 05:47 PM
Also, the XPH has Psionic Tattoos (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/psionicTattoos.htm).

Ah, forgot about them.

Thrawn183
2010-10-30, 06:10 PM
Get versatile unarmed strike, or whatever the feat is called that lets you do slashing damage with you fists, then enchant them with vorpal at the earliest possible moment.

Urpriest
2010-10-30, 06:11 PM
Get versatile unarmed strike, or whatever the feat is called that lets you do slashing damage with you fists, then enchant them with vorpal at the earliest possible moment.

For example, while shaving in the morning.

Darrin
2010-10-30, 09:32 PM
Your weapons should be your fists, and you should have throwing/returning applied to them.


ROCKETFISTS.

Add the Hideaway property to your unarmed strike. You can now fold yourself up into a Metroid-style Morph ball.

Add the Sizing property for +5000 GP. You can now increase your size up to Colossal or down to Fine.

WinWin
2010-10-30, 10:00 PM
Keep in mind that groups of natural weapons can cost more for a Kensai to develop if they are using the unarmed/nautural attack stacking.

An amulet of Natural Attacks may be a method of stacking multiple weapon effects on your unarmed (beyond the normal limits of Kensai), though it can be an expensive option.