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HMS Invincible
2010-10-30, 05:42 PM
3.5, I got a druid trapped on a rocky outcropping 50 feet in the air, in the ocean with a family of 3. There is a Kraken circling below.
Backstory:He fell off our ship during a storm, and we lost him. While he was drifting, he caught the eye of a Kraken(Druid's been talking about kraken repeatedly). Kraken agrees to rescue the druid in exchange for knocking the family off a rocky outcropping. He got up there, and is now feeding the family with a pissed off Kraken. He's 4th level, and he casted animal messenger to a bunch of friends. How do you get them off the rock, and what level friend does he need?
We're all level 4, and I'm a wizard, we have a lvl 4 sorcerer. My plan is to level up to whatever, til I can fly out there and teleport them out. Is there a faster way out?

Greensleeve
2010-10-30, 05:53 PM
Kraken. Level 4 PC's. How is your DM thinking? :smalleek:

dsmiles
2010-10-30, 06:02 PM
Kraken. Level 4 PC's. Is your DM thinking? :smalleek:

Fixed that for ya'. :smallwink:

Galdor
2010-10-30, 06:18 PM
Well, I guess we can all agree to not try and fight the kraken. You could buy a few fly scrolls (375 gp) and fly out there to get him right away, if budget and circumstances permit...

dsmiles
2010-10-30, 06:45 PM
Well, I guess we can all agree to not try and fight the kraken. You could buy a few fly scrolls (375 gp) and fly out there to get him right away, if budget and circumstances permit...

If you can afford it, use overland flight scrolls, if you're any major distance away.

herrhauptmann
2010-10-30, 07:47 PM
So how long can this druid stay alive, keeping that family alive? What're your chances to successfully use a scroll that's higher than you can cast? (Need a spellcraft check if it's above your abilities).
Maybe buy a ring of spellcraft +10 (bonus to skill usage, be useful anyway), and a few scrolls. Have at least one extra. Last thing you want is to get there, and fizzle with your teleport circle, losing the scroll, and having one extra person for the druid to feed.

Can krakens communicate with speech?

Urpriest
2010-10-30, 08:05 PM
Is a higher level scroll even necessary? He's level 4, he could use Alter Self to get a fly speed.

herrhauptmann
2010-10-30, 09:02 PM
That would get him there, but would it get the others out?
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0233.html

true_shinken
2010-10-30, 09:05 PM
Get a ship, load it with cannons, kill the kraken from range.

Urpriest
2010-10-30, 09:16 PM
That would get him there, but would it get the others out?
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0233.html

A valid point, but rather than making Elan's mistake I was simply thinking that they could carry the people out or something. But I guess that kind of thing would be limited by their strength.

true_shinken
2010-10-30, 09:34 PM
A valid point, but rather than making Elan's mistake I was simply thinking that they could carry the people out or something. But I guess that kind of thing would be limited by their strength.
Depending on their familiars' size, Alter Self to pegasus would fix this issue.

HMS Invincible
2010-10-31, 06:00 AM
He is a VoP druid, PHB II shapeshift variant, and he has a relic that generates 3 goodberries a day. In addition, he can cast create food and water, and stone to mud. Vow prevents him from getting to level 5, which allows him to shapeshift into a flying animal and leaving. Being good requires he saves the family, or something like that.

Whoever said to go use a ship vs a CR 12? Kraken. Are you serious?
Yes, the kraken speaks common and aquan. It is highly intelligent, cruel NE. The proposed deal was to sacrifice the family of 3 by pushing them into the ocean, and then the Kraken would let the druid go. The kraken is the one who sank a ship, and chased the family onto the rocky outcropping.

We're concerned since all his druid friends are also vow of poverty, so he really needs to get the message out to us so we can come get him. Scroll of overland flight doesn't seem much better than teleport, but getting a scroll in the first place sounds pretty good.

The reason for the kraken is the druid kept talking about how close we were to Kraken island, how much treasure there was, and how we should all go there. We all told him no, but he kept talking about it. DM says ok, and says d100, 95-100, Kraken appears. 90-95, storm happens.
We first roll into a storm and we lose the druid due to merfolk and storm knocking him off. During his travels floating as a tree and swimming, he runs into the Kraken...

nedz
2010-10-31, 09:03 AM
I don't understand how you can take the buy scrolls route if you are all VoP, but whatever.

If the Druid is strong, he could fly them off to a passing ship with Master Air [SpC]; Bull Strength might help here.
What to stop the Kraken sinking another ship though ?

I think you might need to find help.

herrhauptmann
2010-10-31, 11:12 AM
He is a VoP druid, PHB II shapeshift variant, and he has a relic that generates 3 goodberries a day.

Unless you mean Vow of Peace... And how is a vow preventing him from leveling?


Being good requires he saves the family, or something like that.
Wouldn't being 'Good' also preclude him from making a deal with an evil being, where he gets to live by throwing someone else to their deaths, regardless of whether he intended to go along with it.

dsmiles
2010-10-31, 11:18 AM
Unless you mean Vow of Peace... And how is a vow preventing him from leveling?


Wouldn't being 'Good' also preclude him from making a deal with an evil being, where he gets to live by throwing someone else to their deaths, regardless of whether he intended to go along with it.

Yeah, if he were vow of poverty, he couldn't have a relic.

herrhauptmann
2010-10-31, 01:27 PM
Yeah, if he were vow of poverty, he couldn't have a relic.

I can see arguments for someone saying "It's a relic of his faith, and his vow of poverty is related to his faith. So it's okay, the relic is an exception to the vow."
Is it an item out of one of the books, or a homebrew item? I ask because most of the relics I can think of require the sacrifice of a 4th or higher spell slot. And until you can use the relic powers, it's really just a normal magic item to you.

HMS Invincible
2010-10-31, 02:44 PM
I can see arguments for someone saying "It's a relic of his faith, and his vow of poverty is related to his faith. So it's okay, the relic is an exception to the vow."
Is it an item out of one of the books, or a homebrew item? I ask because most of the relics I can think of require the sacrifice of a 4th or higher spell slot. And until you can use the relic powers, it's really just a normal magic item to you.

The relic is real, but how it works has been homebrewed to have no value, and no requirements other than being religious. It functions very weakly, and requires true faith feats to actually work at full strength.

He's vow of poverty, and his npc druid friends are also vow of poverty. We are not VoP, so we aren't limited to buying stuff to save him. However, we don't know where he is or if he's alive. He has to contact us at some point, but his druid npcs are trying to figure it out by themselves.

It's really hard to level when you are on a barren rock with an angry Kraken circling below. Even if he could leave at 5th level, he doesn't want to leave the family behind since there's no food or water on said rock. As for being good and making a deal with an evil being; we are a little more practical than most people. We don't think being good requires you to be stupid in the face of death.

dsmiles
2010-10-31, 03:03 PM
I can see arguments for someone saying "It's a relic of his faith, and his vow of poverty is related to his faith. So it's okay, the relic is an exception to the vow."

However, VoP specifically states:

To fulfill your vow, you must not own or use any material possessions,with the following exceptions: You may carry and use ordinary (neither magic nor masterwork) simple weapons, usually just a quarterstaff that serves as a walking stick. You may wear simple clothes (usually just a homespun robe, possibly also including a hat and sandals) with no magical properties. You may carry enough food to sustain you for one day in a simple (nonmagic) sack or bag. You may carry and use a spell component pouch. You may not use any magic items of any sort, though you can benefit from magic items used on your behalf - you can drink a potion of cure serious wounds a friend gives you, receive any spell cast from a wand, scroll, or staff, or ride on your companion's ebony fly. You may not, however, "borrow" a cloak of resistance or any other magic item from a companion for even a single round, nor may you yourself cast a spell from a scroll, want or staff.
If you break your vow, you immediately and irrevocably lose the benefit of this feat. You may not take another feat to replace it.
Emphasis mine. No room for exceptions, here. It's pretty specific.

@HMS Invincible: Maybe he can toss rocks at it until it dies? :smallbiggrin:

herrhauptmann
2010-10-31, 04:19 PM
It's really hard to level when you are on a barren rock with an angry Kraken circling below. Even if he could leave at 5th level, he doesn't want to leave the family behind since there's no food or water on said rock.
I get that part, it's what you said elsewhere that I had to ask about it.

Vow prevents him from getting to level 5, which allows him to shapeshift into a flying animal and leaving. Being good requires he saves the family, or something like that.

The whole part where your party can hold onto potions and pour them down your throat to save your life, that's one of the weaker aspects to the VoP. But I'm not worried about that aspect. What I am looking at, is that VoP prevents you from owning anything more expensive than what, 3 gold?
There's reasonable ways around that I feel:
Whole party but yourself (a VoP character) dies, you put all the bodies into the rogues bag of holding, and carry them back to town. Donate/sell some of the party funds for a raise dead. As written, the fact that you put everyone into the bag, which you then carried around, is enough to make you violate your vow.
But that's still different from owning and using an item.



As for being good and making a deal with an evil being; we are a little more practical than most people. We don't think being good requires you to be stupid in the face of death.
Well since I'd assume he took the Vow as part of an oath to a religious order, perhaps he should have looked at the incident as the ordained end of his life. Try to meet it with dignity (and good roleplaying). I don't mean he should sit there and let the kraken eat him whole, but fight the evil with his last breath.
Particularly since his own nagging was what made the DM put a kraken in the encounter table in the first place.

dsmiles
2010-10-31, 04:38 PM
Maybe he can toss rocks at it until it dies? :smallbiggrin:

I believe this is acceptable, unless he has better options to go down fighting with.

HMS Invincible
2010-10-31, 04:40 PM
I didn't mean vow prevents him from leveling, I mean being good as a requirement for vow handicaps his options, and our options if we were to ever find out.

odder
2010-10-31, 04:58 PM
If there is any kind of wood on the island he could create a raft/boat with the wood shape spell. let the family escape on the raft/boat...while the drud distracts the kraken by throwing rocks (or whatever) at it. It is silly but then again so is the kraken vs. 4th level druid scenario. :smallsmile:

WinceRind
2010-10-31, 05:13 PM
Fixed that for ya'. :smallwink:

Come on now, aggressive negotiations shouldn't always be an option. Providing heroes with a challenge they can't possibly directly face can be a really thing in sense of roleplaying, building character, and depth of the story in general.

I mean, it's kind of like this hypothetical situation - it's easy to say no to an evil army/dragon/whatever who threatens to destroy a town and kill everyone if you don't give them the queen's head when you have a fighting chance against them... But when you don't, what will you do? What would a good character do, when all the odds are stacked against him and he can either doom hundreds to death living up to his principles or sacrifice one to save them all? Or try some very risky maneuvers that might not even work.

Sorry for an off-topic rant.

On topic, I can't think of a good way for the druid to save both the family and himself on his own power alone. If you can't get someone to teleport you out of there, I doubt that you can possibly defeat the kraken with a level 4 party. Maybe try to find some powerful NPC wizard and make a deal with him? Or have some supernatural creature appear and make an offer to the druid, you know, the generic devil trope. But you're kind of already in a similar situation.

By the sound of it, sacrificing the family and getting a dark and edgy new alignment for the druid is out of the question. I know my druid might have done it, but then again when I play one, they tend to be neutral or downright evil darwinian survivalists that more or less follow the ideal of "If you can't survive, you don't deserve to survive".

jiriku
2010-10-31, 05:20 PM
Use the Gandalf solution. Seek out a clan of giant eagles, do whatever favors for them you must to earn a favor in return, and then ask that they pluck the druid and his charges off the rock and wing them back to safety. With his goodberry relic, and a few castings of endure elements, they won't die of hunger, thirst, or exposure while waiting for you. Although they may get really bored.

OracleofWuffing
2010-10-31, 05:22 PM
Stone to Mud the rocky outcropping. Kraken's satisfied, there's no longer a family on the rocky outcropping.

...

Yeah, I didn't think that'd work, either.

Any chance your DM would rule that Hide From Animals would hide you from the Kraken? I know it's a magical beast, so that's not normally how you play it.

I guess the Kraken never sleeps?

Fins to Feet would pretty nicely immobilize the Kraken, but it'd practically require him to natural 1 his fort save, plus you'd need to get right up to him. Same thing for Kelpstrand...

On the boat, tie a rope to an arrow and shoot the arrow into the outcropping, then zipline across back to the boat? Maybe use Animate Rope to retrieve the druid and company once they've given a tug?

Burn the ocean? Boat full of 1,000 level one rangers with bows and arrows?

mucat
2010-10-31, 05:24 PM
Kraken. Level 4 PC's. How is your DM thinking? :smalleek:

I don't see the problem there. Maneuvering level-4 PCs into a situation where they have no choice but to fight a vastly more powerful enemy would be poor DMing. Just having such creatures exist in the campaign world, and having the PCs sometimes meet them, is not. (In fact, I'd call it poor DMing to never have them meet anyone they couldn't kill.)



Wouldn't being 'Good' also preclude him from making a deal with an evil being, where he gets to live by throwing someone else to their deaths, regardless of whether he intended to go along with it.
Not at all. Unless the character's principles never allow him to lie, he can say he'll do all kinds of evil stuff, as long as he's bluffing. (How else would undercover cops operate? You can't think they're all non-good?)


On the main topic: How does the wizard know what happened to the druid in the first place? Animal messengers?

Does the wizard know any more powerful arcanists who would be willing to help with a rescue?

If not, Alter Self seems like a fine plan. If you can reach them, getting them home should be pretty trivial.

Skorj
2010-10-31, 06:11 PM
I think you basically have to trade th DM a plot hook for a favor at this point. Make a deal with someone more powerful (giant eagles as mentioned above would be cool, or just a wizard powerful enough to perform the rescue) in return for performing some quest on their behalf. That's about half of all fantasy stories, right there. :smallamused:

blackjack217
2010-10-31, 06:23 PM
If you where a wizard I would say spam MM until it dies, because, you know it cannot hurt you. It might take a few day mind you. any ideas for summoning abuse and similar?

dragonsamurai77
2010-10-31, 06:26 PM
If you where a wizard I would say spam MM until it dies, because, you know it cannot hurt you. It might take a few day mind you. any ideas for summoning abuse and similar?

Drop creatures on top of it, abusing falling damage?

Strife Warzeal
2010-10-31, 06:31 PM
Have the IFCC show up, offer power in order to save the family and defeat the magical beast...

What do you mean it's been done before?


Sorry no real advice to give. Push the family in? Have the Druid use summon natures ally and attack the kraken until it's doom over the next few months?

blackjack217
2010-10-31, 06:32 PM
So we need to find a way for a 4th lvl druid to do over 200 damage in 1 day. Wait, summon swarm the kraken has no aoe attack it would be helpless.

mucat
2010-10-31, 06:34 PM
If you where a wizard I would say spam MM until it dies, because, you know it cannot hurt you. It might take a few day mind you. any ideas for summoning abuse and similar?
Silly idea. Why would any creature with a non-zero Int sit there while you pelt it with magic missiles? Kraken has Int of 21. If it really wanted the wizard dead that badly, it would move out of range and wait for him to leave his outcropping.

This does raise a question about the situation the OP described, though. Is the kraken just sitting there, potentially for weeks on end, to keep the druid and the human family from escaping? Why? Surely there are easier meals out there. Why is a superhuman intellect wasting its time staking out a few miserable mammals on a rock?

blackjack217
2010-10-31, 06:36 PM
Silly idea. Why would any creature with a non-zero Int sit there while you pelt it with magic missiles? Kraken has Int of 21. If it really wanted the wizard dead that badly, it would move out of range and wait for him to leave his outcropping.

This does raise a question about the situation the OP described, though. Is the kraken just sitting there, potentially for weeks on end, to keep the druid and the human family from escaping? Why? Surely there are easier meals out there. Why is a superhuman intellect wasting its time staking out a few miserable mammals on a rock?

so it leaves, problem solved.

Urpriest
2010-10-31, 06:36 PM
Silly idea. Why would any creature with a non-zero Int sit there while you pelt it with magic missiles? Kraken has Int of 21. If it really wanted the wizard dead that badly, it would move out of range and wait for him to leave his outcropping.

This does raise a question about the situation the OP described, though. Is the kraken just sitting there, potentially for weeks on end, to keep the druid and the human family from escaping? Why? Surely there are easier meals out there. Why is a superhuman intellect wasting its time staking out a few miserable mammals on a rock?

Druids are powerful. A high level NE druid would be a pretty good minion for an ambitious Kraken. This is simply his plan to create one.

Strife Warzeal
2010-10-31, 06:41 PM
I have a new suggestion, use the druids powers to talk to aquatic creatures/Summon Natures Ally and feed the kraken with those in exchange for his and the families lives.

mucat
2010-10-31, 06:45 PM
Druids are powerful. A high level NE druid would be a pretty good minion for an ambitious Kraken. This is simply his plan to create one.

That is a very good answer.

blackjack217
2010-10-31, 06:50 PM
summon swarm lasts concentration + 2 rounds and can summon a swarm of bats that will be immune to weapon damage. the kraken will have no choice but to flee.
For some reason there is no aquatic option for the summoning, which is stupid, but bats will hopefully suffice. Is there a version that does have an aquatic option?

I would at least ask if you can do it. If the DM says yes you will defeated a creature with a CR 8 above your level with a 2nd level spell. If not then you need a plan B.

HMS Invincible
2010-10-31, 10:31 PM
Silly idea. Why would any creature with a non-zero Int sit there while you pelt it with magic missiles? Kraken has Int of 21. If it really wanted the wizard dead that badly, it would move out of range and wait for him to leave his outcropping.

This does raise a question about the situation the OP described, though. Is the kraken just sitting there, potentially for weeks on end, to keep the druid and the human family from escaping? Why? Surely there are easier meals out there. Why is a superhuman intellect wasting its time staking out a few miserable mammals on a rock?

The answer is spite, and because it's an interesting conundrum. The druid needed to get home, and the kraken wanted to get a bigger meal. So the kraken offered to give the druid a ride home if the druid was willing to climb up a rocky island, and knock said meal into the sea. For some unknown reason, the druid decided not to push the family into the sea, and now the Kraken is very mad at a broken promise and has an empty belly. Btw, why are several people advocating ships being sent out to fight a kraken? I don't see how that's a good idea unless the plan is to feed it until it gets too sleepy to fight anymore. The kraken will probably get bored and leave after a while, but how do you get off the rocky outcropping? Get a boat and hope the kraken doesn't get hungry?

I say teleport and flight scrolls are probably the best ideas we've come up with. Unfortunately, those are not things a VoP druid group would have. But who knows what DM will come up with to get him out of this.

blackjack217
2010-10-31, 10:40 PM
Or you can take advantage of the fact that it cannot hurt a swarm. Yes it would take quite some time to kill this way and it might escape bit still.

herrhauptmann
2010-10-31, 10:48 PM
Or you can take advantage of the fact that it cannot hurt a swarm. Yes it would take quite some time to kill this way and it might escape bit still.But can the airborne swarm hurt a kraken? All he's gotta do is submerge.
If you're going to kill it with 2nd level spells, that's gonna take a while. Kraken has 20HD, so he heals what, 40HP/day naturally if he rests? So just gotta find a way to deal that kind of damage without getting hurt yourself, and eventually (days/weeks) he'll die.



I say teleport and flight scrolls are probably the best ideas we've come up with. Unfortunately, those are not things a VoP druid group would have. But who knows what DM will come up with to get him out of this.

Not sure for the others, but I thought you were asking advice for what your wizard could do to save the druid. And you did state that he sent animal messengers to his druid circle. So it seemed a logical conclusion that you by now, know you need to help him.
Druid can't do much. It's up to you and the party to save him, using the aforementioned scrolls/wands.

Be glad this isn't 4E. Flying kraken...

blackjack217
2010-10-31, 11:01 PM
Then he is running from a 4th level character, which is awesome and makes the druid feel good. Plus forcing someone to retreat might count as defeating them for xp purposes. Which would be ridiculously funny

true_shinken
2010-11-01, 01:33 AM
Whoever said to go use a ship vs a CR 12? Kraken. Are you serious?
Of course I am. Have you ever checked a cannon's max range? Have you ever thought about how many you can fit in a ship at the same time?
Seriously, those things are dangerous.