PDA

View Full Version : On Familiars on this forum



BeholderSlayer
2010-10-31, 01:35 AM
I see rather erroneous statements that people should "always" trade their familiar for Abrupt Jaunt, or some other ability for which a familiar needs to be given up. Why is this so popular on this forum?

Yes, Abrupt Jaunt is fairly strong. Is it as good as a well-played familiar? No, not by about a million miles.

It just bothers me, for some reason, people make sweeping, broad statements that seem like canned responses that they think will make them look knowledgeable. It's similar to all the Pun-Pun references I see thrown around as if they meant something.

Godskook
2010-10-31, 01:46 AM
I say it cause its a matter of availability. The ACFs are a 1-chance opportunity, while the familiar is available in an improved form as a feat option at any point in your career, pretty much(well, ECL 3, but still).

The Shadowmind
2010-10-31, 01:47 AM
It is not if Abrupt Jaunt is worth a familiar. It is if Abrupt Jaunt is worth a feat. The feat is Obtain familiar.

In certain instances a familiar could even be a liability, but typically only is in the case of DMs of a more sadistic nature.

Valameer
2010-10-31, 02:02 AM
Well, people are obviously sacrificing power for flavo-




...Yeah, nevermind, I won't do it :smallsmile:

There's a bunch of cool stuff familiars are good for, but some of it is borderline cheesy... because all polymorph spells are baked-with-cheese when it comes down to it.

But Abrupt Jaunt is always useful. And it's a good thing to have up your sleeve before you get dimension door or teleport. Even with, cause it can save you some spell slots.

I prefer the familiar myself. But I'd take a psi-crystal over a familiar if I could.

Lord_Gareth
2010-10-31, 02:03 AM
Like was stated above, Obtain Familiar allows you to have the best of both world. Follow this with Improved Familiar to have the best of whatever you can BS past the DM.

I had an Intellect Devourer once.

John Campbell
2010-10-31, 02:38 AM
My familiar once killed a BBEG because he Abrupt Jaunted.

He was inside my anticipate teleportation radius (the DM always forgot that I kept that up 24x7), and my familiar had been polymorphed into a war troll, heavily buffed, and was waiting with his Huge greatsword poised when the BBEG emerged.

Cerlis
2010-10-31, 02:42 AM
Like was stated above, Obtain Familiar allows you to have the best of both world. Follow this with Improved Familiar to have the best of whatever you can BS past the DM.

I had an Intellect Devourer once.

Story can be found in DnD Snippets Topic :). I believe the character in question was that awesome mage right? Love her

Crow
2010-10-31, 11:08 AM
I go with the familiar almost every time.

I like a good deal of the touch spells (both offensive and buffs for allies), and being able to stay back and let my familiar deliver the touches is good for my wizard's health.

I think a lot of what you hear on this forum regarding familiars is based on discussion rather than actual gameplay, much like a lot of the other things you hear about wizards around here.

DLPWNLRY

Boci
2010-10-31, 11:12 AM
I go with the familiar almost every time.

I like a good deal of the touch spells (both offensive and buffs for allies), and being able to stay back and let my familiar deliver the touches is good for my wizard's health.

I think a lot of what you hear on this forum regarding familiars is based on discussion rather than actual gameplay, much like a lot of the other things you hear about wizards around here.

DLPWNLRY

If you're going into a PrC though unless it specifically says so it won't advance your familiar, but obstain familiar is based off your class level. Then there's also the case that swapping a familiar is best for new players and players who don't want another thing to consider in addition to their spells.

Foryn Gilnith
2010-10-31, 11:19 AM
I think a lot of what you hear on this forum regarding familiars is based on discussion rather than actual gameplay, much like a lot of the other things you hear about wizards around here.

I pretty much always trade away my familiar. Even when I want one as a wizard (which I usually don't; managing all those spell slots is hassle enough. Save familiars for bards), there is usually an alternative more appealing than the 3rd-level feat I'd spend on it. Not Abrupt Jaunt; I find that distasteful, but various other things. I can live without having a familiar for the first 2 levels; you shouldn't adopt a pet before you're able to properly care for it.

realbombchu
2010-10-31, 11:20 AM
I always choose alternate class features in place of a familiar, but I still get a familiar anyway with Obtain Familiar, like mentioned above. I don't always take an improved familiar, though. Even the humble toad can work just fine, and doesn't cost another feat.

Yuki Akuma
2010-10-31, 11:20 AM
Abrupt Jaunt is better than a feat. And you can spend a feat on Obtain Familiar anyway, which is better than the class feature.

It's really a no-brainer.

Susano-wo
2010-10-31, 11:22 AM
I think its just that people tend to (on internet forums at least) want to boil things down to a 'best' choice. There's probably no one answer why, though a lengthy discussion probably could be had (but probably shouldn't :smallwink:) about internet culture and/or it being easier to say 'X is the best' instead of 'it depends.'

(for what its worth, though I love the ability to lose the familiar (not every magician character concept I have jives with a familiar, so sometimes it kinda seems tacked on), it can also be quite fun and useful (falcon familiar+benign transposition=1st lvl tactical teleport)

Morph Bark
2010-10-31, 11:32 AM
it being easier to say 'X is the best' instead of 'it depends.'

Indeed. 'X is the best' is followed by the person who asked for the best choice looking it up and maybe using it or coming back with a follow-up question. 'It depends' is followed by a lengthy post of what might be best, which is followed by several other posters debating whether or not one of those things is the best.

Susano-wo
2010-10-31, 11:42 AM
Indeed. 'X is the best' is followed by the person who asked for the best choice looking it up and maybe using it or coming back with a follow-up question. 'It depends' is followed by a lengthy post of what might be best, which is followed by several other posters debating whether or not one of those things is the best.

Yeah, except X is the best is also usually also followed up by people debating ^ ^.

BeholderSlayer
2010-10-31, 12:06 PM
Abrupt Jaunt is better than a feat. And you can spend a feat on Obtain Familiar anyway, which is better than the class feature.

It's really a no-brainer.

A feat-tight character likely cannot spend a feat on Obtain Familiar, and Obtain Familiar is tacitly superior to Abrupt Jaunt if used properly. Abrupt Jaunt is fine at lower levels, but beyond level 5 it basically becomes almost pointless.

Mushroom Ninja
2010-10-31, 12:28 PM
A feat-tight character likely cannot spend a feat on Obtain Familiar, and Obtain Familiar is tacitly superior to Abrupt Jaunt if used properly. Abrupt Jaunt is fine at lower levels, but beyond level 5 it basically becomes almost pointless.

Speaking of sweeping, broad statements, why is is that abrupt jaunt becomes almost pointless after level 5? It's always struck me as extremely useful for a full 20 levels. The ability to jaunt out of a fighter's reach, or behind cover to avoid a spell seems amazingly handy -- even once you have other ways of doing the same thing (like wings of cover, celerity, and contingency).

Morph Bark
2010-10-31, 12:41 PM
Yeah, except X is the best is also usually also followed up by people debating ^ ^.

Mostly because someone follows that with a 'it depends' answer though.

BeholderSlayer
2010-10-31, 12:53 PM
Speaking of sweeping, broad statements, why is is that abrupt jaunt becomes almost pointless after level 5? It's always struck me as extremely useful for a full 20 levels. The ability to jaunt out of a fighter's reach, or behind cover to avoid a spell seems amazingly handy -- even once you have other ways of doing the same thing (like wings of cover, celerity, and contingency).

Because there are better ways to do it, which include all the things you mentioned and more (adamantine hats grant the same abilities, but without expenditure of limited resources). With a familiar you can double your actions per round, as well as get incredible defensive measures like 50-mile Mindsight and free other types of free scouting and free telepathy. Being able to jaunt 10 feet pales in comparison.

Don't get me wrong, Abrupt Jaunt is very strong, but I would only take it on a build that wasn't squeezed for feats.

endoperez
2010-10-31, 12:54 PM
A feat-tight character likely cannot spend a feat on Obtain Familiar, and Obtain Familiar is tacitly superior to Abrupt Jaunt if used properly. Abrupt Jaunt is fine at lower levels, but beyond level 5 it basically becomes almost pointless.

What makes a familiar better than Abrupt Jaunt on a character who can't use any of his feats on making better use of his familiar? Scrying on the familiar once per day (equivalent of a fourth-level spell slot) or speaking with animals of the familiar's type (level 1 spell for druids or rangers) aren't particularly useful abilities. Situationally, yes - just as Abrut Jaunt.

I'm not sure what Share Spells could be used for, besides the polymorph cheese that was mentioned. Being able to use the master's skills might become situationally useful, but probably not any more often than Abrunt Jaunt.

In addition, if the familiar dies beyond level 5 (where you claim Abrut Jaunt becomes useless), the character loses at least 500 experience, and raising the familiar costs gold. I think an item of 1/day use-activated scrying would cost about 500 xp and about 12 000 gp...



edit:
Wow, okay, I guess the ninja-post answers my questions. How would I go about doing a mindsight like that without using any feats?

edit2: Okay, found it:

Really what this does is just limit the wizard's options. He will do things like take Improved Familiar and persist Shapechange on his pseudodragon familiar. While the wizard sleeps and adventures, the pseudodragon is a Formian Queen, and has taken the Mindsight feat from LoM (he qualifies due to natural telepathy). This gives him Mindsight out to 50 miles. Mindsight is neither [Mind Affecting] nor divination, and as such will find anybody with Mind Blank or immunity to divination, and will cover anybody approaching in mundane ways. If the spymaster tries to teleport, that is covered below.