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View Full Version : [3.5, feats] Geometry is for suckers



Flickerdart
2010-10-31, 11:28 AM
Non-Euclidean Spell [Metamagic]
For those who can't bend the universe to their will, two parallel lines will never intersect. For you, a line will even intersect itself, should you desire.
Benefit: This metamagic feat can only be applied to spells with the following shapes: burst, cone, emanation, or line. A non-euclidean spell can be manipulated in the following ways:
Burst or Emanation: The spell ignores one item of cover (like a spread), but every square with cover counts as two squares of the spell's area of effect.
Line: You can designate the line of the spell to make a turn of up to 90 degrees.
Cone: The cone can "skip" a single line in its area, moving the rest of the spell's area forward accordingly. You may not skip the first square of the cone.
Each of these benefits can be applied to the spell more than once as it is cast, but you take 1 point of Wisdom damage for every benefit beyond the first. The spell cannot affect a single creature more than once per casting.
A non-euclidean spell takes up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level.

Baffling Geometry
Those who can't follow the path your spells take through the underside of reality are luckier than those who can.
Prerequisites: Non-Euclidean Spell, Inconstant Spell
Benefits: Enemies that see or otherwise perceive the effects of a non-euclidean spell or inconstant spell cast by you must make a Will save or take 1 point of Wisdom, Intelligence and Charisma damage. Insane creatures, aberrations, creatures with INT 2 or less and creatures of the Far Realms are immune to this mind-affecting effect.

Inconstant Spell [Metamagic]
Your spells no longer follow conventional areas of effect as they travel across a landscape only the insane can see.
Prerequisites: Non-Euclidean Spell, must have taken at least 20 non-consecutive points of Wisdom damage from Non-Euclidean Spell
An inconstant spell can change its shape midway through its effect. The new shape must originate from a square adjacent to the original one and has the following area: 10 foot radius cylinder 15ft high, 20ft cone, two 10ft cubes, a 10ft radius spread or 60ft line.
If you take 2 points of Wisdom damage while casting the spell, you can apply an additional section to the area (5ft radius cylinder 15ft high, 10ft cone, one 10ft cube, a ball (5ft radius spread) or a 30ft line). The point of origin of this section must be adjacent to the area of effect of the spell. The spell cannot affect a single creature more than once per casting.
An inconstant spell takes up a spell slot one level higher than the actual spell.

Golden-Esque
2010-10-31, 12:00 PM
Is it bad that I look at your first Metamagic feat and can only think of Cthulhu? :)

Other then that, they seem fun. Nice job. Can't really comment on the level balancing, but 1 spell level per effect and a point of Wisdom damage seems fitting.

Cieyrin
2010-10-31, 02:16 PM
These seem right on, though I see the Wisdom damage translating to the players as well, as for the extra mental gymnastics to get strange areas of effect to work. Nice inclusion of Sculpt Spell, though!

Fizban
2010-10-31, 02:49 PM
I like them, but the optimizer in me immediately asks if I would ever need anything more than Sculpt Spell. The 10' cubes option gives you just about all the precision you'd need. I think the basic Non-Euclidean can make for a decent substitute, but I'm not sure about inconstant. The best I can compare it to is Widen Spell, since you're getting a lot of extra area. Compared to Widen, you're spending 3 feats to get some extra quasi-shapeable area for +1 adjustment, versus 1 feat for a lot of unshapeable area with a +3 adjustment. It's certainly better, but I'm not sure if one would need the extra area to warrant the feat cost.

Flickerdart
2010-10-31, 10:16 PM
They're less "I can shoot you with Enervation thirty times and all it costs me is some stat drain" and more "they all said I was mad, well I'll show them!" Plus hey, Strongheart Vest or whatever probably does away with a good chunk of the stat damage, I forget how it works out.

DracoDei
2010-10-31, 10:57 PM
Line: You can designate the line of the spell to make a 90-degree turn.
I would say "of up to 90 degrees" instead of a fixed 90 degrees.

Flickerdart
2010-10-31, 11:14 PM
Good point, fixed.

Drolyt
2010-10-31, 11:40 PM
Should baffling geometry apply to the effects of inconstant spell? If not, why is non-euclidean geometry even a prerequisite for inconstant spell? Maybe remove sculpt spell from the prerequisites of inconstant spell?

I like these very much, although they aren't terribly useful other than as replacements for other spell shape modifying feats.

Owrtho
2010-10-31, 11:59 PM
It should likely state how the wisdom damage heals.

Owrtho

Drolyt
2010-11-01, 12:08 AM
It should likely state how the wisdom damage heals.

Owrtho
Normally 1 point per day. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#abilityDamage)

Flickerdart
2010-11-01, 12:09 AM
Should baffling geometry apply to the effects of inconstant spell? If not, why is non-euclidean geometry even a prerequisite for inconstant spell? Maybe remove sculpt spell from the prerequisites of inconstant spell?

I like these very much, although they aren't terribly useful other than as replacements for other spell shape modifying feats.
Fixed. I didn't want to make both feats a prerequisite for Baffling Geometry, but it doesn't really make sense to include stuff for Inconstant Spell without requiring it. Should I make the feat more powerful as a consequence?


It should likely state how the wisdom damage heals.

Owrtho
Like any other ability damage - 1 point per day, 2 points with complete bed rest.

Drolyt
2010-11-01, 12:11 AM
Fixed. I didn't want to make both feats a prerequisite for Baffling Geometry, but it doesn't really make sense to include stuff for Inconstant Spell without requiring it. Should I make the feat more powerful as a consequence?
Perhaps. Why not 1 point each of Int, Wis, and Cha? And make it drain. And remove sculpt spell from the requirements for Inconstant Spell.

Flickerdart
2010-11-01, 12:15 AM
Removed the requirement, made the damage 1 point to all mentals. Still damage, though, not drain - I don't like drain as a mechanic.

Godskook
2010-11-01, 02:54 AM
Speaking as someone who got a BS in math, these aren't really "non-euclidean" and feel more like "art class for math students". I'd offer suggestions on what could be done that's actually non-euclidean, but attempting to think of a way to condense that to metamagic form hurts my head. So instead, would you take suggestions on alternate names/themes?

Eloel
2010-11-01, 02:58 AM
The "not able to harm the same person twice" bit looks boring. The first idea I got was making a Lightning Bolt keep rotating onto itself on an adjacent Large creature...

Drolyt
2010-11-01, 03:22 AM
Speaking as someone who got a BS in math, these aren't really "non-euclidean" and feel more like "art class for math students". I'd offer suggestions on what could be done that's actually non-euclidean, but attempting to think of a way to condense that to metamagic form hurts my head. So instead, would you take suggestions on alternate names/themes?
You don't exactly need a BS in math to know that the above isn't non-euclidean, but I think you'd need at least 3 PhDs to come up with a way to make non-euclidean geometry useful as a metamagic feat. Since you obviously know more about math than me, I'm wondering, does non-euclidean refer only to geometries which ignore the parallel postulate, or does it include geometries ignoring other axioms? I think we could create something interesting with the later, but again I'm not a mathematician.

Partysan
2010-11-01, 08:17 AM
Nice, though I don't think Non-Euclidean spell warrants a slot level increase.
Stylish in any case.

Owrtho
2010-11-01, 08:20 AM
Actually, in theory it could be argued these follow some form of non-Euclidean geometry as you didn't specify any specific one. It would just mean that you aren't actually changing the shape, but the form of geometry it is made in, then applying it to the normal plane, hence why a strait line effect may end up with a curve. Most likely it would have to be having only a single portion make use of non-Euclidean geometry.

Owrtho

Flickerdart
2010-11-01, 11:27 AM
Alternate names are welcome, yeah. Non-Euclidean is a pretty awkward term anyway.

DracoDei
2010-11-01, 11:48 AM
Alternate names are welcome, yeah. Non-Euclidean is a pretty awkward term anyway.
It is also traditional for the Cthulu mythos etc... I thought that was why you were using it in the first place.

"Displaced Spell"?